I know we met them in a European Cup semi-final in 1972, but the forthcoming tie against Inter Milan is all about the wonderful heritage we were gifted in 1967. La Grande Inter, as Internazionale, then the greatest team Italy had known, had won two of the previous three European Cups and were controversially denied in the semi-final of the other. They won three of the previous four Italian titles, denied the fourth on a play-off, and topped the table with two weeks of the Italian season to go.
They were an awesome team with gifted strikers but it was the defence which marked them out; this was a team who didn’t concede goals, when they took the lead, they kept it.
Simpson, Craig, Gemmell; Murdoch, McNeill and Clark; Johnstone, Wallace, Chalmers, Auld and Lennox, and Jock Stein, not only killed La Grande Inter, but did so, so comprehensively, they forced Inter, and the rest of the Italian game, to change their ways. Catenaccio, the suffocating, ultra-defensive system, was finished.
For Europe, the consequences were profound. Celtic, with their wave after wave of attack; 45 attempts on goal in a European final; were celebrated everywhere. The drift towards caution stopped, teams realised the very best defensive sides could be beaten into submission by sheer talent. In the two subsequent decades the dominant Latin countries of Italy, Spain and Portugal, who had won all previous European Cups, would win the trophy only once.
Football fans across the globe, not just Celtic fans, will want to be there when the teams meet in a game which represents History, not just our history, Europe’s History.
We’ll talk later today on moves being put on the SFA at the moment. ‘Here we go again…….’
Still time to order your 2015 CQN Annual for Christmas.
You can also order the CQN Annual and DVD bundle here. It’s a great offer, check it out – oh, and there’s tons of photos, fresh stories and comment on the first time Inter faced the green and white hoops.
The latest edition of the Magazine is out today, click on the download link on the graphic below to read for free.
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http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/Documents/JPPNotesofReasons/AleksandarTonevOctDec2014/Appellate%20Tribunal%20-%20Aleksandar%20Tonev.pdf
Jungle Jim Hot Smoked
13:53 on 16 December, 2014
“We do not consider that any player should be found guilty of such a grave offence on the basis of the evidence presented in this case.”
Precise summary of the essential point of this case. Well done Celtic FC
####
Not sure what they’re saying there.
Are they saying that the standard of proof should be beyond reasonable doubt (like in criminal cases) not on the balance of probability, as is the standard required here, or are they saying that there wasn’t enough evidence in this case to allow the tribunal to find someone guilty on the balance of probability?
fourgreenfields
Lol, the SFA being answerable for decision making, never GONNY happen my friend, never. ;)
Had an email from an Italian priest friend who lives in Milan and who is a Celtic fanatic. He became a supporter as a young bhoy when he first saw the Celticplay in that city. His summing up of the tie, “Great, great.” No doubt his first port of call that week will be the training ground to catch up with all the players.
As one who was at Lisbon and who suffered the penalty over the bar night, I am looking forward to this tie. It will be another great Celtic European night at Celtic Park.
Just came away from discussing the present team situation with an 98 year old, very articulate lady. She asked me what I thought of the new manage. When I said I was willing to give him a chance to prove himself. She retorted , ” you have to be born a Celt to really know what it is all about. ” I said nothing after that. Then discovered this was Tommy’s birthday. Maybe my old friend is right after all..
The SFA are ran on Masonic Laws, no one gets to know a thing, and the sooner they are made answerable the better, clarity at all times, justice has to be done, and also seen to be done an all that.
ernie –
It means that while the balance of probability is the norm in civil cases, it should not be the be the sole barometer for such a serious charge.
connaire12
13:59 on 16 December, 2014
” you have to be born a Celt to really know what it is all about. ”
###
Being born a Celt myself, if you know what I mean, I’d like to agree, but I really can’t convince myself that I’m more of a Celt than Jock Stein or Bertie Auld.
JJ @1350
Brilliant. Lol.
Weefra HH praying to Wee Oscar.
Monaghan1900
13:57 on 16 December, 2014
Basically this is what decided it for them, mmmmmmmmmmmm
“But in the end the crucial finding in the case was the finding that Logan was not only a credible witness but more particularly that he was also a reliable witness.”
Ernie – it’s on the balance of probability, but the defence case was that because the allegation is so serious, the probability should be nearer 90/10 than 51/49.
Tom McLaughlin
14:02 on 16 December, 2014
Well if that’s what they are saying they should make it clear.
The consequence of course would be that there would be very little chance of anyone every being found guilty of such a charge.
Professor Green
Underground from city center to Lotto and a 1 km walk to the park. That was how we went.
One warning though – after the match we were held back to let home fans away and then routed round the far exit. By the time we got back to Lotto, all the trains were finished and we ended up having to get a taxi as we were based at the far end of a Metro line and there was no direct bus as far as we could see.
Buses still run after the Metro closes so that could be the best option but make sure you plan a way back to your destination.
ekbhoy
13:41 on 16 December, 2014
Hahaha maybe I’m Ronny :-) HH
ernie
“Are they saying that the standard of proof should be beyond reasonable doubt (like in criminal cases) not on the balance of probability, as is the standard required here, or are they saying that there wasn’t enough evidence in this case to allow the tribunal to find someone guilty on the balance of probability?”
I would say that they , Celtic, are being unusually clever and managing to say that in such a serious case as this,the balance of probability ruling is not appropriate and in the absence of any real evidence, Tonev should not have been considered guilty.
JJ
prestonpans bhoys
14:12 on 16 December, 2014
Monaghan1900
13:57 on 16 December, 2014
Basically this is what decided it for them, mmmmmmmmmmmm
“But in the end the crucial finding in the case was the finding that Logan was not only a credible witness but more particularly that he was also a reliable witness.”
####
I can’t see anything wrong with that.
I said so at the time.
Just hearing the verdict on the Tonev case and the “balance of probabilities” and the fact Logan was a more reliable witness. I’m sure any of us who have had the misfortune to be up in court for some minor offence. The police are lying through their teeth but the outcome is usually” the officer was a reliable witness” (even though you know you did nothing wrong) I hope Celtic take this the whole hog and show the SFA up for what they are.
greenpinata
13:27 on 16 December, 2014
So anybody who does something you don’t agree with isn’t a Celtic supporter ??? Ok boss
The summary is they believed Logan and not Tonev. That’s it nothing more.
It took 3500 words to say that they preferred Logan’s version and that Tonev had given his evidence in a “guarded and hesitant manner”. English isn’t his first language for goodness sake!
It still boils down to one man’s word against another and it’s a hell of a penalty and disgrace to be heaped on a young man without proper evidence.
Jungle Jim Hot Smoked
14:14 on 16 December, 2014
There was evidence. Logan’s account, and his immediate reaction at the time. That’s evidence.
He had no reason to lie. That’s where the credibility bit comes in.
ernie
“I can’t see anything wrong with that.”
What was the basis for deciding he was a credible and reliable witness but Tonev was not? Being the accuser carries greater moral weight than being the accused?
JJ
BBC Scotlland lunchtime Weather
Awe naw, wee Judith wae a hairpiece on ana’
Thought it was Stokesie.
And she’s been to the taun staun, awe naw, no braw a ta ‘, a ta’.
“He had no reason to lie.”
Impossible to know that.
JJ
EL ….for the very first time I do agree with you. Those you mentioned were great Celts. But why would I argue with an 98 year old woman?
On the flare question, someone mentioned a picture of the supposed culprit and that the club should do something about this person. I have it on good authority that this guy was lifted by the police at the game, so the club should be able to identify him and press charges for reimbursement should the club be fined. It is about time these types were rooted out. They are costing the club too much in fines, and worse, in the besmirching of its and our good name.
Just think, the next European game after Inter could be behind closed doors. The loss of revenue on that occasion could be considerable and all because some daftie cannot behave in public for the common good. Find him I say and ban him from all Celtic games home and away.
i
ernie lynch
14:17 on
16 December, 2014
Jungle Jim Hot Smoked
14:14 on 16 December, 2014
There was evidence. Logan’s account, and his immediate reaction at the time. That’s evidence.
He had no reason to lie. That’s where the credibility bit comes in.
——
No one is suggesting that Logan is lying. His credibility is not in issue.
“He had no reason to lie.”
Ernie lynch,
Who involved with the case is claiming he lied?
A few more to add to the ‘Weren’t born a Celt’ list:
Wim Jansen;
Henrik Larsson;;
Willie Wallace;
Kenny Dalglish;
Danny McGrain;
Shunsuke Nakamura;
…….
I’ll stop there.
HH!!
Tonev case should be taken all the way.
This is a fella’s livelihood for ten years,gone down the tubes on hearsay.
Shocking way to make a verdict,but no great surprise. No proof,but heyho,we believe you.
I’m delighted that the club are continuing to stand by him. I’m disgusted that they have to.
Advice on going to the San Siro
Dont.
The ground is a dump the metro is about 3 miles away and you will be kettled by armed polis up to the top tier where you will see wee dots running about.When the game finishes and you are kept in for about an hour afterwards there will be no public transport and few taxis. It wiil be freezing cold and nothing will be opened apart from a few night clubs in the centre where they will be delighted to scuttle 100 euros off you for the privilege of listening to crap Italian dance music.
ERNIE LYNCH
That’s a load of bollocks that he had no reason to lie.
People have a reason for the most ridiculous things,it happens everywhere.
Besides,the defence was not that he lied,the defence was that the comment wasn’t said.
Must say having read the decision that I would have expected a better defence presented for Aleksandar Tonev, than appears to have been so in the Tribunal judgement.
This is notwithstanding that the original decision was as suspected by the uniformed public, that Shay Logan’s evidence was simply preferred, to Aleksandar Tonev’s and that he was therefore a more creditable witness.
Celtic and Tonev’s legal representations that you cannot decide this very serious matter on a balance of probability was doomed to failure. If the case does go beyond this appeal, in order for it to be reversed, the legal case will require to be made on substantially, stronger ground.
BMCUW
Less of the legalese, please 0:-)
JJ
‘The former High Court Judge Lord Bonomy is to lead the Scottish Government’s promised review of the additional safeguards and changes to law and practice that may be needed if the corroboration requirement is abolished, the Scottish Government announced today.’
Obviously none.
Celtic and Tonev’s case is that Logan was not lying, but merely misunderstood what was said. The panel, according to the report, acknowledge this, then go on to say that Logan was a good and reliable witness “as evidenced by the fact that he immediately reported the abuse to his captain, his manager and the referee.”
How does immediately reporting the abuse override the claim that he had misunderstood what was said?
Has Tonev been reported to the Fiscal. Racial abuse is a criminal offence and the Fiscal would act if there is sufficiency of evidence
Jerry Cornelius
14:24 on 16 December, 2014
I recall some bhoys saying that since its a category A match that, with the exception of food outlets, the pubs were shut. Think they travelled from Turin.
Ernie.
quite simply Logan thought he heard one thing,
Tonev says he said something else,
how does that make Logan more believable
I’m in the garage the wife shouts “Can you bring me some paper towel”, so I duly take it out. She just looks at me and says “I asked for my favourite trowel”.
I guess nobody at the SFA has ever misheard anything.