We have lots to cover today, perhaps the most serious issue we have ever discussed on Celtic Quick News, but first let’s get a couple of points out of the way.
Paul Clark from Duff and Phelps gave an expansive interview to Alastair Lamont from the BBC yesterday evening. Clark established a few points:
Although Craig Whyte holds security over Ibrox, the position of the administrators is that this security has no value as Whyte has not put any money directly into Rangers, his investment is in the form of guarantees worth £27.5m, which was used to secure funding to clear the bank debt.
This is a default position of an administration but is pretty meaningless at this stage. Having previously dealt with a few administrators, claims against the company are often disputed. I have been asked questions like “Do you have proof of title?” to “Do you have proof of delivery?”
Duff and Phelps need to convince a court that Whyte’s security, which was established by his well-paid lawyers, not by well-paid accountants like Duff and Phelps, should be set aside. Whyte will have been aware this position would be adopted from the outset.
Clark told the BBC that he is busy trying to agree a CVA and sell Whyte’s shares. He didn’t explicitly name Whyte, but Craig Whyte is the only person who can sell Rangers. Whatever offers Duff and Phelps receive from prospective buyers, they have to take back to Whyte for his consideration.
Notions that the administrators can either dismiss security or sell the club are completely misplaced. Ideas that they can do both are fantasy.
Clark also suggested that HMRC may agree to a Creditors Voluntary Arrangement. HMRC have given no such assurance.
Whyte owns the club and is the only person who can sell his shares. He has security over the stadium and could tie this asset up in court for years if his title was disputed. Ticketus own the first 26,000 season tickets sold for the next three years. HMRC are due around £15m which could potentially grow by another £50m within weeks.
There is no agreement with Whyte to sell, the security over the stadium has not been lifted by a court, no deal has been agreed to invalidate Ticketus’ tickets and no agreement has been made with HMRC.
Apart from these matters, the administrators job is pretty straightforward.
More important issue coming up soon, just checking details before we go.
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Mort, I’ll see what I can do.
Kayal33, everything is related.
angelfc67, Gordon_J, plenty of reasons to remain worried.
ASonOfDan, player agreements are a side show for now.
Honest Mistake, aye.
Jam67, they have adopted a position. This is normal.
Folly Folly, I know.
oglach on 9 March, 2012 at 11:03 said:
Could it be the other 10 SPL leeches (teams) agreeing to kick vote Celtic out of the SPL if we don’t give them a rather large percentage of our income?
They can’t do that plus they haven’t had their meeting yet.
I’m sensing opportunity with a risk.
RalphWaldoEllison,
The album could be about the huns.
Easy Money – what Craig Whyte thought he had
This Depression – what the huns fans have
We Are Alive – just …
LP
Not yet, bet365 are not the best at PR, soon though :>)
Back to kaking my pants then
Kayal33
You could be right, but IMO he needs a seat on the bench. But its Neillys opinion that will count in the end.
Hi Paul,
D&P are acting like some Guardian Angels for Rangers F.C.
It seems most bizarre to me, they seemed little concerned about the non-compliance to th plus stock exchange but in a lather over SFA charges,
They spend most of their time negotiating wit Footballers while disin’ creditors.
Are they administrating a distressed company or managing a fitba’ team.
I wonder what warranties D/P will offer possible buyers against none of their statements coming to pass?
Seems to me any new owners are being asked to take the same punt as CW was ready to take but with other peoples money.
Whose money will they be using
So here my question. If what media report does come to pass and they get off with everything. Can we expect Celtic to follow suit and use the exact same methods and business plan as huns have in previous years??
ernie lynch at 10:39 said:
‘I have Great Expectation of a Bleak Big House followed by Hard Times.’
I mentioned the other day that my favourite out of these has got to be Hard Times.
It’s got to be the book for the occasion having, as it does, a classical 3-part structure: with the titles of each book being related to Galatians 6:7, “For whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”
Book I is entitled “Sowing”;
Book II is entitled “Reaping”; and
Book III (where we are now) named “Garnering.”
Charlesdickens.csc
Mort
I can certainly understand the merits in your position
Maybe we are talking at cross purposes.
The premise earlier was of buying out an English club
and gaining entry to England that way.
If we use say Portsmouth as an example.
Celtic buy the majority interest
1 Portsmouth stay as Portsmouth
as a football fan would you support them
I don’t think I would as I would view it as merely
a business deal
2 Portsmouth transform into Celtic
Its this scenario I have trouble with.
And yes I would support them but I would rather
not be put in that position
Today shows the exact reason why I stopped buying newspapers years ago.
Good news for huns, nothing to see here timmy.
Still at least it will save a few woman being used as punchbags over the weekend when billy comes home from the pub.
What if someone does an insuance job on asbestos infected Ibrox? What happens then?
Could be a nice little insurance earner for someone.
oglach
Could it be the other 10 SPL leeches (teams) agreeing to kick vote Celtic out of the SPL if we don’t give them a rather large percentage of our income?
It would be great as we could move somewhere else but there ain’t no way the other teams would want to jeapordice their existence by getting rid of the only team who can provide them with money.
No Celtic = Absolutely no TV money
No Celtic = Little or no other sponsorship
No Celtic = Attendances plummeting
Mort
I still hope that the Huns survive and get the CVA… as long as the CVA states they pay back 100% of their liabilities. Very happy if this is paid off over 10 years. Will leave them crippled as a club for 10 years…
It feels biblical as a solution:
10 years of plenty followed by 10 years of famine… and the huns ignored all the warnings to save for the famine years.
B
Auld Neil Lennon heid on 9 March, 2012 at 11:09 said:
I wonder what warranties D/P will offer possible buyers against none of their statements coming to pass?
Seems to me any new owners are being asked to take the same punt as CW was ready to take but with other peoples money.
Whose money will they be using
+++++
Well, my bid was put together with my own pound coin.
Admittedly I took it from my oldest daughter’s piggy bank. See, thinking like an orc already.
Right so lets get this straight shall we? According to the impartial media based on a few snippets from Dumb and Dumber (and maybe Catwoman, was she asked to give an opinion?) everything is now hunky dory when two days ago this was D-day or possible L-day.
OK
Yesterday’s court hearing has now been set for a court case in 3 weeks with several parties including HMRC laying claim to the 3.6M D&Ps “Found” in another account. That is still under dispute. Who knows who will eventually get this money. As HMRC are after 2.8M (the wee tax case amount) why don’t they just ask for 280K as they are willing to take 10p in the pound according to D&Ps? Everything is hunky dory after all.
It has now emerged that Rangers still owe money for the team they have on the park at present – Bedoya (150K), Goian (Darryl King said this yesterday no amount mentioned), Wallace (800K), Celik (240K although he’s done a runner) and they still owe money for Jelavic (425K that we have been told about). A pretty penny indeed when it accumulates. Surely the clubs are creditors for this money? But everything is hunky dory.
There is the possiblity of further sanctions against the club coming out of the SFA investigation – everything is hunky dory.
The SPL have still to do their investigation into the two contracts issue – I bet ticketus will announce that is null and void too, maybe they paid for the second contracts and disclosed them fully – everything is hunky dory.
Whittaker and Ratboy have taken a 75% drop in wages to save jobs (aye their jobs as they are both injured and would have been told see you at job centre plus in next week if they’d said no) and now McGregor and Davis are doing the same but D&Ps say this will reduce redundancies not halt entirely. Suppose they survive this. Does this mean that the wages go back up? And if so, will rangers be able to sustain that level of wage bill again with all the other debts or will these palyers be sold in the summer? – everything is hunky dory.
Craig Whyte is now discredited by the SFA and that means somehow he can have his shares taken off him by two glorified bookkeepers who don’t make cuts to reduce costs – everything is hunky dory.
Ticketus’ deal will now be voided apparently but no one can tell us exactly how. Everything is hunky dory.
The Sun (stop laughing at the back) tells us that a source said (that frequent fount of knowledge and newspaper quotations) that HMRC are ready to deal but only if Craig Whyte is not there:
A source said: “This is welcome news for whoever wants to come in and take over Rangers.
“At least anyone coming in knows that HMRC are going to be flexible.
“It is also in their interest as if the club goes into liquidation they will get nothing.
“The deal is only on the table for new owners and NOT Craig Whyte. He has treated HMRC with contempt.” The news will be a welcome boost for hard-pressed fans who feared the worst after administrators — who yesterday arrived at Ibrox in a light blue van — launched a last-gasp bid to sell the club.
SO – a 50M quid tax liability created by David Murray’s time will be waved or reduced because Craig Whyte is there and he has treated HMRC with “contempt” so says the article. So what exactly did Rangers and David Murray do for 15 years?
And also, how can HMRC make a deal with NEW OWNERS when we all have no idea who those owners are and what their background is? I’d imagine HMRC might want to see proof of income/wealth before making any kind of deal.
No representative from Hector has said a word and nor should they. Their fate in all this rests in the FTT and the new court case at the end of the month.
And all this doesn’t get away from the fact that Rangers still owe 15M in VAT and PAYE for this season alone as well as all the other debts – the player transfers, the cup and league money etc etc BEFORE getting a bill of around 50M.
But a buyer is just around the corner who will gladly throw away his hard earned cash never to see it again just to put Rangers on an even keel.
Everything is hunky dory.
This video perfectly illustrates the Duff and Phelps meeting with the Laptop Loyal yesterday:
http://youtu.be/vzcWPKAv2Ow
Clink\o/ is Neil Lennon on 9 March, 2012 at 11:11 said:
I wouldn’t be comfortable with using that as a way into England.
I also don’t think I would “support” Portsmouth as it would only be a business arrangement but I would take an interest in how they are doing as I would expect to see a number of our younger players loaned out to them.
Mort
The most serious issue Paul speaks about will , in my opinion be – how we react as a support / club when the Masonic cabal try to stiff us .
HH
The Ticketus thing is Catch 22
Do they have a contractual right to sell Rangers season tickets for X years ?
If yes —–is the contract with Glasgow Rangers PLC ?
If Glasgow Rangers PLC is liquidated and someone wants to buy Rangers –
then the buyer can either let Ticketus in on the deal [ ie include them in a consortium of buyers ] or begin a long /complicated and very expensive legal battle in which an attempt would be made to prove that any Newco did not have a contract with Ticketus.
Including Ticketus might be a pain and a drain [ but they have money from Octopus ] / excluding Ticketus might be an even bigger pain and drain..
Truly a fabulous mess. Truly a tangled web . Dammed if you do , dammed if you don’t. Ticketus didn’t only buy some tickets , they bought leverage over any possible Newco–deal us in for —– deal us out for.
Regarding the 10 SPL clubs meeting I have been told this morning there are rumours it is to discuss having the 14/16 team league proposal put forward again.
The same proposal that Celtic, rangers, SPL and the McLeish Report all said was unworkable.
If they want a bigger share of the TV deal they can have it as there will be no deal without 4 old firm games.
Celtic PPV on the horizon I hope, as I would gladly pay for that.
No.7 on 9 March, 2012 at 11:10 said:
So here my question. If what media report does come to pass and they get off with everything. Can we expect Celtic to follow suit and use the exact same methods and business plan as huns have in previous years??
—————–
And every other SPL club although it appears that there will be new regulations to ensure that the stable door will be bolted to stop this type of thing happening again but only once the Rangers nag is is back in the stable. No one else will be allowed to do this 25 point deduction, relegation etc etc
The Ticketus deal, if clubs all over Britain use it and the old rangers board usd it in the past.
How is it invalid all of a sudden? Nonsense talk…
Crazy thought:
If it the administrators are able to determine that MBB didn’t actually hand over the £1 to MIH/Murray on conclusion of the agreement, would that invalidate the transaction?
FF
The only way I can see a phoenix being formed within the tight time scale required is if it’s driven by Whyte and Ticketus with the consent of the administrator, Murray, King and all other interested parties ie no dissent, and no legal challenges.
Any other scenario involves litigation which rules out all hope of a speedy resolution.
The propoganda that administrators release is astounding every time I read a statement penned by any of them.
I work in the industry as a credit controller.
I have seen the same (for want of a better word) bollocks a hundred times.
When it boils down to it, and you can say what you like about their legal obligations, their first intrest in any case is to ensure they are being remunerated well for the “tough job” they are doing.
The longer they keep a company running in administation the more they get paid.
Furthermore, in this case, if the administrators keep the club running for 90 days in administration the £18m debt to “Wavetower” must be wiped.
Can anyone tell me if Celtic now have half of the Rangers end for LCF. I am able to buy tickets now having missed out on the ballot but the only area with good availabilty is the rangers end
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Gordon J. aye indeed.
I will f5ing a bit today though.
HH
Paul67
We have lots to cover today, perhaps the most serious issue we have ever discussed on Celtic Quick News,
___________________________________________________________
We need Declan serious matters to discuse
thomthethim on 9 March, 2012 at 10:43 said:
Joy of joys!
To awake, on my special day, to the news that the World is back on it,s axle! And God is in his Heaven and all is well in Hunland.
Re the no PC at CP, I think that we are keeping a low profile, in view of the Trial, the 10 Meeting and the Party at Ibrox.
I can imagine the media saying, It’s quiet over there, too quiet!
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Thanks for all the good wishes . Let,s hope we will all be celebrating soon.
thebhoyfromoz
Killie were given the 17000 tickets they demanded. Yesterday, they had only sold 9000 and did not to expect to sell anymore than a 1000 more between now and the final.
So that is about 7000 tickets returned.
themightyquinn,
“Furthermore, in this case, if the administrators keep the club running for 90 days in administration the £18m debt to “Wavetower” must be wiped.”
Can you explain that one for me? Do you mean paid to him or cancelled?
Paul67
The most serious issue to be discussed ?
If this is another blockbuster week after the last 3 weeks my wife will be throwing me out the house ;)))))
Snake Plissken on 9 March, 2012 at 11:14 said
Whittaker and Ratboy have taken a 75% drop in wages to save jobs (aye their jobs as they are both injured and would have been told see you at job centre plus in next week if they’d said no) and now McGregor and Davis are doing the same but D&Ps say this will reduce redundancies not halt entirely. Suppose they survive this. Does this mean that the wages go back up?
They are only defering their wages…when the new owner pops up (if it happens) then they will get the 75% x No. of weeks they are owed and their weekly wage goes back to the original sum
Mort
cheers
HH
Morning Paul et al.
There I was quite content that the media guff was just that. Paul’s article confirmed that to be the case so that’s fine.
Then I read that we’re about to discuss the most important issue these pages have seen. That statement has my previously calm and contented stomach churning! More apprehensive than excited I think!
Anyone see the “penalty” Craig Thompson gave last night. And he’s the best referee in Scotland. I despair.
http://youtu.be/JZpDL6nxUYc
Mort
dirtymac \o/ on 9 March, 2012 at 10:55 said:
The Pantaloon Duck on 9 March, 2012 at 10:52 said:
Hands up anybody who really understands what the heck is going on here…
+++++
**puts hand up**
‘Obfuscation’
———-
Aye, there definitely might be just a wee bit of that…