Neil Lennon suggested Gary Hooper, unquestionably his favourite son, was Celtic’s best striker since Henrik Larsson. It’s an interesting question.
The list is long: Chris Sutton, John Hartson, Henri Camara, Craig Bellamy, Dion Dublin, Scott McDonald, Marc-Antoine Fortune, Chris Killen, Maciej Zurawski, Kenny Miller, Derek Riordan, Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink, Georgios Samaras, Robbie Keane, Diomansy Kamara, Olivier Kapo, Anthony Stokes, Pawel Brozek, Moh Bangura, Daryl Murphy, Miku and Lassad.
Apologies if I’ve overlooked someone. That’s 22 strikers in nine years (it’s a bit soon to consider Amido Balde), some of whom were loans, but the list doesn’t include the many Celtic youth players who got their shot at first team football, or those, like Tony Watt, who were signed for low fees from lower league Scottish clubs.
Chris Sutton and John Hartson were already at the club when Henrik left, but it quickly became evident they were past their best. Robbie Keane and Craig Bellamy were quality but only played a dozen or so games, so can’t really be considered as competition to Hooper.
Maciej Zurawski arrived a year after Larsson left and had a phenomenal first season at the club. He made his debut after the 5-0 reversal to Artmedia but inspired Celtic to a 4-0 win six days later. Maciej was on fire when he joined and only failed to score in five league games before the league win in April but he never found anything close to that consistency again. Record: 22 goals in 55 games.
Scott McDonald’s YouTube clip of goals in the Champions League and against Rangers will have featured heavily in the portfolio as his agent looked for a new club this year. His goals got us into the Champions League, beat European champions, Milan, and regularly put our (then) nearest rivals to the sword. Record: 51 goals in 88 games.
Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink arrived in summer 2006 and immediately outshone Zurawski. His debut as a substitute against Hibs transformed Celtic and won the game. His signing was pivotal in Celtic winning the title in 2007. Record: 34 goals in 78 games.
Georgios Samaras arrived 18 months after Vennegoor of Hesselink and alongside Barry Robson pushed Celtic over the line for three in a row. 2008 was a fabulous year for Georgios but although he’s still a forward, he’s not really been a striker since. Record: 41 goals in 138 games.
With 63 goals, 95 games, Gary Hooper’s scoring record is better than anyone else’s, but the challenge to be best since Larsson was simple, just outperform Scott McDonald. With all those strikers as competition, that’s not as high as the bar could be.
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Kojo
You are going to piss off some people with the last post … (you’re probably used to that by now)…
For the Catholics (and we cant pretend that there aren’t a fair number on here)… God does not need anything to be complete. God does not need the devil to exist.
for the po-mo’s (that is with a ‘p’) … we completely reject your reductive binary dualism for the Derridian differance ….
And of course, not only would Scottish football be better if sevco did not exist, but the country would be better off without the disease of sectarianism that sevco brings.
Better have your tin hat on, bud!
Still laughing (in a post-modernist Catholic Celtic supporting sort of way).
pauloantony :
I agree with you, I’ve always thought Tony Stokes is a much better, more gifted, football player than Gary Hooper but for me Hooper was a bit like Dixie Deans, Gerd Muller, Gary Liniker, they were all limited in the skills department but oh! they all knew where the net was.
Siesta time. Adios.
CHANNELISLANDCELT
Thanks for the tip-off,pretty obvious who to back for the first goal.
Off to the bookies.
Fiver on Rovers number nine…
NegAnon2:
I don’t think I am missing any point, I don’t subscribe to xenophobia and I’d rather forgive a sincere repentant than have my heart polluted and my very Raison d’être defined by hate for the sake of hate to perpetuate hate.
Good intelligent debate on here today. I do believe that we are cashing in just now due to the inevitable downturn in attendances when Sevcos procession is complete. The Daily Record reader type of fan is what we will be left with and even some of them will turn their back on the club. Getting unfairly humped by the huns will hammer the second class citizen message home. Time is a great healer and it will be the only entertainment on offer…not a sport. Pulling back the whole curtain and seeing fully how we operate would have been fatal to the present custodians. I will no longer contribute until they have gone. The bigot brothers is no longer a false accusation from the rest of Scotlands teams supporters. I also see it as a real shame. A once in a lifetimes opportunity to do the right thing. Sadly money rules even Celtic.
HH
big-cup-winners
15:10 on 28 July, 2013Hooper……….disappeared in January, re-appeared at Hampden and left Glasgow in July.The best since Henrik ? Not for me.
Sums it up for me too.
NegAnon2
No blanking ye Mate, I gotta catch a tram, will catch up with ye when I get back from Basel…
While im at it…..ive nothing in the way of memorabilia except 1 ticket.
For some reason ive kept it all these years…..guess it was unuual and i felt a bit lucky after the game.
Theres probably loads of em kicking about and its maybe wont be of any interest to anyone…..but maybe it will….and if you want it, you can have it.
Its my ticket from the European tie we had down in Nottingham.
Its the complete ticket, with stub still attached, even though i was at the game.
As anyone that was there will know they opened a big door and just let us all in with or without a ticket and so thats why its still intact.
Spent what seemed an eternity squashed against a fence before the game and even though i wasnt right down the front which would have been even worse…..it was still scary.
Like i said…if anyone wants it then i will stick it in the post to them.
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pauloantony
13:34 on 28 July, 2013
Kelvins family hasn’t settled up here.
If the player has requested a move for personal reasons then so be it.
IRRESPECTIVE of weds game…
Injury will wreck a move therefore will his head be in it at such an important game?
Lustig mulgrew at centre half are more than competent imo
ernie lynch
13:36 on 28 July, 2013
So far today we’ve had a poster who chooses to believe that a direct quote from The Great Desmondo in fact represents the opposite of what he believes and another who claims that a number of Celtic supporters with whom he disagrees, while they may think of themselves as Celtic supporters, are in fact huns.
Not impressed by the standard of intellect on show.
Not impressed at all.
auldheid
13:37 on 28 July, 2013
Kayal/Ten men
The fact we sold our best goalscorer who was offski by the end of the transfer window and not going to get hurt proves nothing.
Facts are facts, what folk make of them are made up
There is no certainty.
Even if we qualify for CL groups all it means is we qualified, not that the positions taken before the event were right or wrong depending on the result.
If we get a ref who allows goalmouth wrestling how would Hoopers absence or presence make any difference?
Folk will hold on to the meanings they give things, letting go can be difficult. Take for example the superority thinking of Rangers supporters. Its nonsense but can they let go it? No and that is because it requires a rethink of what and how they think and they fear the consequences of that although in their case I think they have much to face up to
All I’m saying is circumstances change almost second by second and a meaning that was true or might have been true in the past does not mean it applies now.
Allowing room for that possibility opens closed minds and in such an environment there is a much better chance of minds meeting to establish the truth on different occasions.
In life one size of thinking does not fit all. Tailoring is needed to get the right fit.
auldheid
13:40 on 28 July, 2013
Ernie
I’m not trying to impress you. I am challenging why you think the way that you do?
Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable I thought you intellect would have taken you over that
unionbearbhind
13:43 on 28 July, 2013
good afternoon CQN
cant believe amount of negativity being spouted, we have lost far better players than GH, or VW. Sit back & enjoy the ride, if we cant beat Elfsborg with the core squad we have, then an extra forward wont help a great deal at this stage? We need any striker bought, allowed a bit of time to get used to the players round about them.
What we don’t want is a chris boyd type who doesn’t add anything but goals, look at him now, in any other league without MIB assistance he would never have the goal tally he ended being accredited with, Larsson was at the very least10 times better, even the cardihun didn’t rate boyd, how many Celtic games did he sit out, no hunger for the ball unless it landed at his feet?
Although we have lost GH he didn’t want us anymore, better we made the deal, as after the last transfer window he wasn’t exactly putting in 100% especially spl wise,
his whole demeanour lacked aggression/commitment. We want young hungry strikers with ambition and a point to prove, Trust in NFL and our scouts, its only a matter of time again, we will eventually unearth another gem, in the meantime we just need to trust goals will come, very few CL teams run a mock scoring at will, most rely on team performance, many of their goals are not scored by recognised strikers? Most of our CL goals are from set pieces, and are due to hard work on the training ground.
NFL seems to be buying tall players these days, good in either penalty box, we do need a striker able to feed of these tall target men, he obviously is harking back to his experiences, Sutton/Hartson. This would suit our midfielder’s running onto balls just as well, hard graft is no substitute for craft, but if we have both the goals will come, we will moan/groan that will never change, new Celtic legends will come and go its inevitable.
All we need is the patience and remember a lot of players flourish when given a chance to shine even ones who are originally slated can surprise.
Its not that long ago NFL stated our Greek God could lose him his job, look how that’s turned out, after numerous poor early contributions, he is repaying the trust NFL showed him in spades, no I want to play for any other team, Samaras loves Celtic he just gets what as a club we stand for, and its not just money! he is great example for any new players we sign and as long as we have Celtic mhen of his ilk we will always prosper on and off the field, lets just enjoy!
KTF
mike in toronto
13:43 on 28 July, 2013
I see more posts this morning about who is or isn’t a hun…. this is becoming like ShiiteQN vs. SuuniQN … they’re both muslims, for God’ (Allah’s) sake!… you’d think they had bigger enemies to fight than each other!
Similarly, this nonsense about ‘hunspotting’ and ‘anyone who criticizes the team/board,manager/DD, etc. must be a hun’ really has to stop.
What is the difference between Celtic and Sevco? In the past, I would have said their history and identity. But now, the biggest difference is ….
One survived and one didn’t.
And why?
Because, when Celtic were ‘on the brink’, some (‘rebels’) stood up and said ‘something isn’t right’… and were sneered at by many for their troubles (even though, we now honour them).
Conversely, many of us (including P67) have been saying for years that something wasn’t right over at Ibrox… but the bears went round like happyclappers, unquestioning, pretending that everything was peachy keen….until it was too late.
Sure, the club needs fans who are ‘dyed in the wool’ unquestioning fans… they do keep people’s spirits up…. but the club also needs people like neg anon and Canamalar who also serve an important purpose ….They might not always be right… but the act of questioning is important to ensure that we (Celtic) never end up like Sevco…. or nothing more than a Corporation like Man U.
So, you might not agree with them…. (I often do, sometimes dont, and sometimes they lose me with their choice of language… but that goes for both sides)…. but respect their right to express an opinion (as long as they follow P67′s rules).
I think we all know people like neg and canamalar, and they are no hunfiltrators… that alone entitles them, and their opinions, to be accorded some respect, and courtesy.
And, as for the hunfiltrators that we all know do come on here….I welcome it … in fact, it makes me laugh ….. they can come here and question, and cause s**t all they want …. I just think that, had they done that 10 years ago on FF or RM, R****s might still be in existence!
I think everyone on here wants the same things …. a strong Celtic .. sure, we might not always agree on exactly what that means, or how to get there … but those are suggests for a discussion and debate, not a slagging match.
Remember: the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing us that he no longer existed. The devil still does exist …. but its not each other! There is still a battle that needs to be fought, but its not with our brothers.
United in Celtic
Hail Hail
a stor mo chroi
13:43 on 28 July, 2013
001 Bhoy:
If you give me good notice of the date I promise you a I will do my utmost to be there if invited.
clashcitybhoy
13:44 on 28 July, 2013
Auldheid,
You are on the right lines around DD’s thinking around the team formerly known as.
I would imagine most of DDs answers were prepared by a PR type, and it was for him to deliver.
If he had given the opinion that many fans have ie he is glad to see the back of them, then it would have been reported in a way that would denigrate the club.
It may even be that those are his genuine views – only he knows.
Even if they are his views, in a way they are inconsequential, and if his view is contradictory to those of most Celtic fans, then so be it. It is also refreshing that he didn’t roll out the old “we will be playing in England in 5 years”
My own view is that DD is a good landlord for us, not great, good.
I suspect his enthusiasm his eroded since the Seville / MoN era, but equally we don’t cost him any money, he makes a small return from some of the share types he owns, and, I suspect if he wanted to he could easily have sold his shares.
neganon2
13:49 on 28 July, 2013
I read Kilbowie Celt earlier who took a new tact on calling anyone who dissents from fawning over the Board. Rather than simply calling us huns he went one step further – we now merely THINK we are Celtic supporters but are actually huns.
Its quite breathtaking and let me make a comparison. Celtic fans who called out the cheating in Scottish football and the bias in the media as mentally ill (paranoid).
So Kilbowie take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself who is delusional about being a Celtic fan.
I am going to use Ernie’s reposting of DD’s quote from earlier – I do it deliberately because it clearly annoyed some of the more ostrich like posters on the site.
“Rangers are a fantastic club with a great history. They will, in not too long a time, be back in the SPL. I have no doubt about that.
“And they’re needed for Scottish football because of their following, the size of the club and especially their history. We certainly would like to contest with them every week. We believe we have a better team and management structure.
“For us, it’s disappointing that they are not there but that’s decisions by the various clubs and leagues and we accept those.
“Rangers are one of the great clubs in Britain and we have to acknowledge that.
“They are a motivation for us to go along and beat them in every Old Firm match, so we miss that opportunity.”
Its clear that DD wants the old firm cabal back. Good for business and all that.
So in spite of now clear and growing evidence of the corruption with the game being rigged against celtic – Celtic will not mention it, pursue it etc. Because that’s bad for business. Despite now clear evidence of a media rigged against us Celtic will not question it – bad for business.
And here is a harsh reality for us all to face. We (and the daft huns) are merely commercial fodder in a rigged game designed to feed off years of discriminatory behaviour in Scotland. Its excellent for business and the fact that its football that’s a vehicle for making money is incidental. Its clear that Celtic’s business model is await a return when the hun is back. Its also clear from DD’s quote above that he wanted Rangers to remain in the SPL.
So what does all this say about us? We are just commercial fodder and love a club that simply wants to exploit us. Are we not as daft as the huns under this model?
The demise of the huns offered a one time opportunity for us to escape the commercial background that was based on sectarianism. Its clear those who run the club don’t want that. Instead they attack the support at every opportunity and ignore evidence of the cheating etc.
Meanwhile – faced with a massive financial windfall we sell our best players ahead of the CL qualifiers. Operation survive until the huns come back is in full swing. I see we are now selling Wilson as well. All our effort is on selling – with very little on buying. What a surprise.
And meanwhile those of us who question simply think we are celtic fans but must be huns………
The hard question
neganon2
13:52 on 28 July, 2013
Clashcity – of course DD’s views are not inconsequential – his views influence how we act and the outcome. As I noted above this results in us willing to put up with cheating and corruption.
16 roads – neil lennon walks on water.
13:54 on 28 July, 2013
All Ireland senior Hurling quarter-final on RTE now.
Watched the Shinty yesterday on Alba,got me in the mood to appreciate some true sport again.
Hope the blood & bandage win for corkcelt,can’t see it happening though.
ClashOfTheAshCSC
gorbalstam
14:01 on 28 July, 2013
I believe the monkeys are where they are at the moment by not offering any critique of their custodians and suppressing any debate this might spark. If we are not offering opinion and debating the points because the opinions are deemed ‘negative’ (the most overused word on CQN maybe?), I believe we are doing our club a disservice.
auldheid
14:02 on 28 July, 2013
Neganon
In spite of what I have written I am still looking for a definitive sign that we are not party to the corruption.
In that sense canalamr’s proposal if it gets tabled should provide it one way or another.
But on DDs statement he may have changed his mind as a result of the benefits flowing.
If money is his driver then he must.
As I say things change.
auldheid
14:06 on 28 July, 2013
Neganon
To clarify I have had indicative signs we aint but I’d love a definitive one to put the suspicion to rest.
normanstreet49
14:24 on 28 July, 2013
Auldheid
11:18 on
28 July, 2013
Auldheid….
You have restored my faith in the blog…..
Good to see someone can actually read into whats not said…..
I to am of the opinion that DD was pi**ing himself when giving STV Sevco interview….
Boo Hoo Hoo indeed…..
HH
:))))))
brogan rogan trevino and hogan supports kano 1000
14:35 on 28 July, 2013
Good Afternoon.
Interesting reading this morning– and to be honest some exercising of myths and memories may well be required.
First of all, personally, I think there is a need to actually reread some of the history of Celtic to look at actual facts at times.
Whilst the statue of Brother Walfrid sits outside Celtic park, it has to be accepted that much of his vision of Celtic was jettisoned not too long after 1888!
The Penny dinners stopped, and while there was agreement that Celtic would still make donations to charity etc, the very early focus and emphasis was on creating a strong professional football club that could compete at the very top level.
Celtic, against the rules applicable at the time, paid players and recruited players from other teams by paying them. At the very forefront of this business like professionalism was John Glass and the Maileys. Much of this was done outwith Walfrid’s knowledge and certainly without his consent– which in all likelihood would not have been given!
As a result, many of the committee men who helped found Celtic football club, simply walked away from the whole thing — basically because the club very quickly abandoned what they saw as the core value of the club. They attempted to set up another club not long after 1888.
Those that remained did not abandon those beliefs entirely, but they saw the need to act as a business first to ensure that Celtic actually survived and prospered. Remember that several attempts had already been made to start a club called Celtic and all failed.
So right from the start there was conflict between club and business.
Other clubs who did not go down the business route– such as Renton and Cowlairs— died out.
Move on a few years, and at a club meeting, Shaughnessy the lawyer ( and lawyers are always paid guns ) tells the committee that the club needs to incorporate into a Ltd Company. This, he says, is to protect the members from personal liability should the club run into financial trouble.
Technically, this was true as the above is an accurate statement of the law. However, I have read that at the time of this meeting, Celtic had a substantial sum in the bank, owned its own ground and was in no financial danger at all!
So– the members were in no real potential jeopardy at all and in actual fact needed protecting from nothing!
As a result of the meeting, the committee vote to incorporate, shares are agreed and bought– and so we start down the road of the “club” being owned by the ” Families” — The Kelly’s, The White’s, The Grant’s and so on.
By this stage– we are many miles removed from the original Walfrid idea — and by the way at this juncture Walfrid is alive and well and able to make comment on the whole shebang if he so chooses.
From the date of Incorporation on, there are families who make their living out of Celtic Football club. They may have been well intentioned, had an identity with the club and its support, but unlike that support the club purpose ( at least in part for them ) was to put food on the table — their table!
That should never be forgotten.
I am sorry but I have a rather jaundiced view of the Kelly years. Other than the appointment of Stein, they were hardly a period of footballing, business or charitable glory.
Further, the Kelly – Stein era lasted no more than 6 years, and as soon as Bob Kelly became ill and later died, the mismanagement of Stein, the players and the club in general by Desmond White was horrific — absolutely dire.
Prior to Stein, while Bob Kelly no doubt loved the club, he was insistent in a degree of control that no Celtic fan would put up with today. In fact, few Celtic supporters of today would tolerate some of the past management history of the club as in many instances it was woeful.
In the modern era, there are many on here who lavish praise on Fergus McCann and rightly so — but of course Fergus was booed by the support. Fergus chased away signings like David Ginola. Fergus was latterly none too convinced by Tummy Burns. Fergus took his money out of the club and left it behind when it suited him and as he always said that he would. Fergus came into Celtic, made a profit and left!
Does any of that make him a bad person? And would anyone say that Fergus McCann was bad for Celtic Football Club?
No — he undoubtedly played a major role in saving the club and giving it a far better business structure than it had from the day that Shaughnessy persuaded the committee to incorporate.
If the club is not going to be unincorporated, then it has to be run as a proper corporation and ideally the ownership of that corporation should be spread as wide as possible — while still allowing someone to call the business, strategy and planning shots. God help us if every single thing has to be agreed upon by a show of hands and a vote from all the fans. There would never be agreement on anything.
And so today– thanks to Fergus — and no thanks to Walfrid, Glass, The Maileys, Jimmy McGrory, The Whites, the Kellys, Grants or anyone else — Thanks to Fergus and maybe John keane and the likes — we have a business structure by way of a PLC.
Oh and maybe thanks to each and everyone of those who decided to buy shares!
That is the way it is.
Someone has to run that PLC. Someone, it would appear, has to run that PLC in the face of a press and a governing body who might just be at the beck and call of people who are acting at the behest of those who run the greatest rival to the club.
Further, former directors of that rival club seem to take up positions at other clubs throughout Scottish Football — Dundee, Hearts, Cowdenbeath and so on.
Scottish Football, it could be argued, has an institutional bias towards that other club. Maybe it is intentional– maybe it is not — but the History of Celtic football club is littered with people from Stein to Kelly to Desmond who at one time or another have said that the press and others have an agenda– and agenda that might not always have the interest of Celtic Football Club, or even reasonable interests at heart. Further, if the interests of Celtic and that other club collide then the other club’s position might just be favoured. We have heard that repeated for decades.
Stein actively pilloried certain sections of the press for unfair and biased reporting.
So I come to Dermot Desmond.
I have never met him and have no great desire to meet him either.
When last I read, here is a man who —even through the recent financial troubles of the last 6 years or so when many based in Ireland have lost huge sums of money yet managed to stay incredibly rich— has a retained mass fortune of something in the region of £1800 Million!
To me, money is no measure of a man at all, and to amass such a sum you had better believe that Desmond does not take prisoners in the business world. This guy could peel an orange in someone else’s pocket from 100 yards away without anyone noticing.
That is both a condemnation and a testimonial possibly.
Whatsmore, from other business dealings, it is clear what DD does in public he does not necessarily do in private. He has in the past supported every political party at the one time just to make sure that he has the ear of those in power. He has had all sorts of business dealings with all sorts of people to make a buck.He has promoted all sorts of developments — just to make another one more valuable.
Again, much of that I might not like but may well not condemn. He is a businessman– a shrewd one– someone who has openly stated that he too shares a disdain of the press and certain elements of Scottish Football Governance, and someone who makes far more money elsewhere than he ever will out of Celtic Football Club.
In the main– he does not do business nor wash the laundry in the press. He does not behave like David Murray and does not court public opinion or favour.
This morning I have heard people call on others to name someone– a Celtic supporter– who wants Rangers ( in whatever form ) back at the top. Or someone who appears to support what DD appears to say in that interview.
Well– I can name at least one!
Willie Wallace.
I can name some others too — they played in the same team as Willie Wallace!
Their argument goes that they always knew there was favouritism, that when Rangers were at their very height– Celtic were better ( 1967-73 ) and that even if they were not always better the ability to beat Rangers was always there and something to celebrate.
I have heard them argue that in todays world, the current Celtic should have no fear of Rangers and should simply play them and beat them as often as possible.
Personally, I don’t agree with all of that argument, but it is their position, their argument, and I can see the merit in the argument– even though I reject it in favour of my own views.
The Charlotte leaks tell me something else re that interview with DD. How many of the press and others in Scottish football all trundled out the argument ” yes we know about sporting integrity but financial necessity and pragmatism must prevail or the game will go bust!”
That was a unanimous mantra 18 months ago.
I have no doubt that the PR for that argument was in hyperdrive and being conducted in ways that we are only now beginning to witness and understand. What was going on behind closed doors to make so many sing that particular song?
Against that background listen again to what DD says.
He praises the history of the Ibrox club ( I wouldn’t have ) and goes on to effectively welcome the return of a strong Rangers to the top level given their size of support and so on.
Anyone on here going to argue that a properly run football club, that plays by the rules, competes fairly,honestly and openly and which can attract 40,000 fans each week has no place in Scottish Football or in its top flight?
Would anyone on here have banned Fergie’s Aberdeen?
Are a properly run Rangers Football Club never to be allowed back into Scottish Football provided they regain their place by proper means and in a fair and reasonable way?
You may not like them, they may not be your team, you may hate the baggage that comes with their longstanding beliefs and so on — but can you ban them? Would you argue that they should never have a place in Scottish football even if they play by the rules?
And just how would the rest of the wee blazer men and the people in power in the wee world of Scottish Football– who may have been getting their ear bent by the Jack’s and god knows who to support everything Rangers — how would they react to a man with £1800M in the bank making a statement from a golf course which reads differently to what DD actually said.
He can afford for all the other teams to go bust. He can afford to not give a toss about the scaremongering media house campaign warning or Armageddon.
There is a place for making your arguments, pointing out the rules and negotiating what is right and wrong — and it is not in front of a TV camera or in the pages of a newspaper– that is the very thing that we are criticising others for— and it is in committee and face to face with the others involved in running football.
You make the argument with force, with logic and using all the tools at your disposal.
Again I stress that I have never met or had any dealings with DD and do not know the man. I do not agree with all the things that DD has done and would not accept that he and PL have not made mistakes at times. Further I do not agree with the way the Club handle certain issues and the way they tackle certain people or groups of people.
But hey — if I were in their shoes– not everyone would fancy my way of managing either.
If you are going to look at the way Celtic is run and has been run, then lets throw away both the green tinted specs and the naive or cynical contact lenses.
The club, fortunately, is in a good position just now. It can improve in many many ways– but the guys doing the business are making a decent fist of it in my opinion.
Far better than the so called Celtic families in days of yore.
Of course, the support has to ask questions– right now all of Scottish and indeed European Football has to ask questions about just how the Rangers fiasco has been handled and who agreed to what and why.
That is necessary because there has been manipulation and back room deals attempted– and because there are problems yet to emerge from the Ibrox boardroom.
However, the last thing that any Celtic supporter should so is take notice of anything that is said in the Scottish press as it is a truly tainted medium.
As for our own set up– it ain’t perfect– but it is a hell of a lot better than many others ( foreign owners and so on ) and it is a hell of a lot better than what we used to have.
who cares about the bus w@nkers!
what about joe craig?
what about tommy coyne and charlie nic?? hh
http://www.sportsdirectnews.com/football/29032-celtic-target-ajax-youngster.php
the reason PL was in Holland??
Sorry– that last post was a paste job using an iPad and hadn’t realised I had copied the page!
Brilliant post from Brogan etc at the end of the last article:
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000
14:35 on 28 July, 2013
Good Afternoon.
Interesting reading this morning– and to be honest some exercising of myths and memories may well be required.
First of all, personally, I think there is a need to actually reread some of the history of Celtic to look at actual facts at times.
Whilst the statue of Brother Walfrid sits outside Celtic park, it has to be accepted that much of his vision of Celtic was jettisoned not too long after 1888!
The Penny dinners stopped, and while there was agreement that Celtic would still make donations to charity etc, the very early focus and emphasis was on creating a strong professional football club that could compete at the very top level.
Celtic, against the rules applicable at the time, paid players and recruited players from other teams by paying them. At the very forefront of this business like professionalism was John Glass and the Maileys. Much of this was done outwith Walfrid’s knowledge and certainly without his consent– which in all likelihood would not have been given!
As a result, many of the committee men who helped found Celtic football club, simply walked away from the whole thing — basically because the club very quickly abandoned what they saw as the core value of the club. They attempted to set up another club not long after 1888.
Those that remained did not abandon those beliefs entirely, but they saw the need to act as a business first to ensure that Celtic actually survived and prospered. Remember that several attempts had already been made to start a club called Celtic and all failed.
So right from the start there was conflict between club and business.
Other clubs who did not go down the business route– such as Renton and Cowlairs— died out.
Move on a few years, and at a club meeting, Shaughnessy the lawyer ( and lawyers are always paid guns ) tells the committee that the club needs to incorporate into a Ltd Company. This, he says, is to protect the members from personal liability should the club run into financial trouble.
Technically, this was true as the above is an accurate statement of the law. However, I have read that at the time of this meeting, Celtic had a substantial sum in the bank, owned its own ground and was in no financial danger at all!
So– the members were in no real potential jeopardy at all and in actual fact needed protecting from nothing!
As a result of the meeting, the committee vote to incorporate, shares are agreed and bought– and so we start down the road of the “club” being owned by the ” Families” — The Kelly’s, The White’s, The Grant’s and so on.
By this stage– we are many miles removed from the original Walfrid idea — and by the way at this juncture Walfrid is alive and well and able to make comment on the whole shebang if he so chooses.
From the date of Incorporation on, there are families who make their living out of Celtic Football club. They may have been well intentioned, had an identity with the club and its support, but unlike that support the club purpose ( at least in part for them ) was to put food on the table — their table!
That should never be forgotten.
I am sorry but I have a rather jaundiced view of the Kelly years. Other than the appointment of Stein, they were hardly a period of footballing, business or charitable glory.
Further, the Kelly – Stein era lasted no more than 6 years, and as soon as Bob Kelly became ill and later died, the mismanagement of Stein, the players and the club in general by Desmond White was horrific — absolutely dire.
Prior to Stein, while Bob Kelly no doubt loved the club, he was insistent in a degree of control that no Celtic fan would put up with today. In fact, few Celtic supporters of today would tolerate some of the past management history of the club as in many instances it was woeful.
In the modern era, there are many on here who lavish praise on Fergus McCann and rightly so — but of course Fergus was booed by the support. Fergus chased away signings like David Ginola. Fergus was latterly none too convinced by Tummy Burns. Fergus took his money out of the club and left it behind when it suited him and as he always said that he would. Fergus came into Celtic, made a profit and left!
Does any of that make him a bad person? And would anyone say that Fergus McCann was bad for Celtic Football Club?
No — he undoubtedly played a major role in saving the club and giving it a far better business structure than it had from the day that Shaughnessy persuaded the committee to incorporate.
If the club is not going to be unincorporated, then it has to be run as a proper corporation and ideally the ownership of that corporation should be spread as wide as possible — while still allowing someone to call the business, strategy and planning shots. God help us if every single thing has to be agreed upon by a show of hands and a vote from all the fans. There would never be agreement on anything.
And so today– thanks to Fergus — and no thanks to Walfrid, Glass, The Maileys, Jimmy McGrory, The Whites, the Kellys, Grants or anyone else — Thanks to Fergus and maybe John keane and the likes — we have a business structure by way of a PLC.
Oh and maybe thanks to each and everyone of those who decided to buy shares!
That is the way it is.
Someone has to run that PLC. Someone, it would appear, has to run that PLC in the face of a press and a governing body who might just be at the beck and call of people who are acting at the behest of those who run the greatest rival to the club.
Further, former directors of that rival club seem to take up positions at other clubs throughout Scottish Football — Dundee, Hearts, Cowdenbeath and so on.
Scottish Football, it could be argued, has an institutional bias towards that other club. Maybe it is intentional– maybe it is not — but the History of Celtic football club is littered with people from Stein to Kelly to Desmond who at one time or another have said that the press and others have an agenda– and agenda that might not always have the interest of Celtic Football Club, or even reasonable interests at heart. Further, if the interests of Celtic and that other club collide then the other club’s position might just be favoured. We have heard that repeated for decades.
Stein actively pilloried certain sections of the press for unfair and biased reporting.
So I come to Dermot Desmond.
I have never met him and have no great desire to meet him either.
When last I read, here is a man who —even through the recent financial troubles of the last 6 years or so when many based in Ireland have lost huge sums of money yet managed to stay incredibly rich— has a retained mass fortune of something in the region of £1800 Million!
To me, money is no measure of a man at all, and to amass such a sum you had better believe that Desmond does not take prisoners in the business world. This guy could peel an orange in someone else’s pocket from 100 yards away without anyone noticing.
That is both a condemnation and a testimonial possibly.
Whatsmore, from other business dealings, it is clear what DD does in public he does not necessarily do in private. He has in the past supported every political party at the one time just to make sure that he has the ear of those in power. He has had all sorts of business dealings with all sorts of people to make a buck.He has promoted all sorts of developments — just to make another one more valuable.
Again, much of that I might not like but may well not condemn. He is a businessman– a shrewd one– someone who has openly stated that he too shares a disdain of the press and certain elements of Scottish Football Governance, and someone who makes far more money elsewhere than he ever will out of Celtic Football Club.
In the main– he does not do business nor wash the laundry in the press. He does not behave like David Murray and does not court public opinion or favour.
This morning I have heard people call on others to name someone– a Celtic supporter– who wants Rangers ( in whatever form ) back at the top. Or someone who appears to support what DD appears to say in that interview.
Well– I can name at least one!
Willie Wallace.
I can name some others too — they played in the same team as Willie Wallace!
Their argument goes that they always knew there was favouritism, that when Rangers were at their very height– Celtic were better ( 1967-73 ) and that even if they were not always better the ability to beat Rangers was always there and something to celebrate.
I have heard them argue that in todays world, the current Celtic should have no fear of Rangers and should simply play them and beat them as often as possible.
Personally, I don’t agree with all of that argument, but it is their position, their argument, and I can see the merit in the argument– even though I reject it in favour of my own views.
The Charlotte leaks tell me something else re that interview with DD. How many of the press and others in Scottish football all trundled out the argument ” yes we know about sporting integrity but financial necessity and pragmatism must prevail or the game will go bust!”
That was a unanimous mantra 18 months ago.
I have no doubt that the PR for that argument was in hyperdrive and being conducted in ways that we are only now beginning to witness and understand. What was going on behind closed doors to make so many sing that particular song?
Against that background listen again to what DD says.
He praises the history of the Ibrox club ( I wouldn’t have ) and goes on to effectively welcome the return of a strong Rangers to the top level given their size of support and so on.
Anyone on here going to argue that a properly run football club, that plays by the rules, competes fairly,honestly and openly and which can attract 40,000 fans each week has no place in Scottish Football or in its top flight?
Would anyone on here have banned Fergie’s Aberdeen?
Are a properly run Rangers Football Club never to be allowed back into Scottish Football provided they regain their place by proper means and in a fair and reasonable way?
You may not like them, they may not be your team, you may hate the baggage that comes with their longstanding beliefs and so on — but can you ban them? Would you argue that they should never have a place in Scottish football even if they play by the rules?
And just how would the rest of the wee blazer men and the people in power in the wee world of Scottish Football– who may have been getting their ear bent by the Jack’s and god knows who to support everything Rangers — how would they react to a man with £1800M in the bank making a statement from a golf course which reads differently to what DD actually said.
He can afford for all the other teams to go bust. He can afford to not give a toss about the scaremongering media house campaign warning or Armageddon.
There is a place for making your arguments, pointing out the rules and negotiating what is right and wrong — and it is not in front of a TV camera or in the pages of a newspaper– that is the very thing that we are criticising others for— and it is in committee and face to face with the others involved in running football.
You make the argument with force, with logic and using all the tools at your disposal.
Again I stress that I have never met or had any dealings with DD and do not know the man. I do not agree with all the things that DD has done and would not accept that he and PL have not made mistakes at times. Further I do not agree with the way the Club handle certain issues and the way they tackle certain people or groups of people.
But hey — if I were in their shoes– not everyone would fancy my way of managing either.
If you are going to look at the way Celtic is run and has been run, then lets throw away both the green tinted specs and the naive or cynical contact lenses.
The club, fortunately, is in a good position just now. It can improve in many many ways– but the guys doing the business are making a decent fist of it in my opinion.
Far better than the so called Celtic families in days of yore.
Of course, the support has to ask questions– right now all of Scottish and indeed European Football has to ask questions about just how the Rangers fiasco has been handled and who agreed to what and why.
That is necessary because there has been manipulation and back room deals attempted– and because there are problems yet to emerge from the Ibrox boardroom.
However, the last thing that any Celtic supporter should so is take notice of anything that is said in the Scottish press as it is a truly tainted medium.
As for our own set up– it ain’t perfect– but it is a hell of a lot better than many others ( foreign owners and so on ) and it is a hell of a lot better than what we used to have.
For a few days the blog has been a place of Bitching and some
unsavoury tones IMO so lets get back to being one big Celtic
Family once again,
I know it’s hard to take sometime but we have known for years that
the SFA is corrupt, Refs are corrupt , MSM are corrupt, that deid team
Cheated.
And everything that OUR Great Celtic Football Club have WON has been
done by the book.
Rant over Hopefully this footage will cheer everyone up.
http://youtu.be/pnphuMb1IrM
HH
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Fischer
10 goals in 23 games last season. Not bad from a winger
AWE NAW
I don’t want the huns back in any form-I intend not ever to watch them against us.
But I sincerely do not think our board has conspired to keep them afloat.
They have missed a few opportunities to sink them,granted,but their supremacist beliefs will do that for them anyway
Sit back and enjoy the ride,bud. I know you love The Hooooops as much as I do.
We are not defined by them,they WILL wither and die.
Kayal33
Fischer is one of Ajax’s best young prospects.
I would be amazed if they sold him for a paltry £3m.
what about alfie conn in the hoops?
nakas 30yarder v deidmob in paradise is one of the best hits i’ve witnessed but his goal v man u from the free kick wins hands down for me hh
Quonno – actually what is very interesting about Celtic is that they are utterly reliant on the support for income – more so than most big clubs. And yet the club are intent on alienating that support. That doesn’t make good business sense to me.
Kojo – that was a very interesting response. We do indeed need competition to thrive and survive. Let me draw you an analogy though. If you are fighting a war and you have all but won it. Why would you let your enemy regroup and give them the tools to restart that war. Unless of course you think war is profitable and that the “casualties” are mere fodder for your profit?
So in this case Celtic are happy for the war to be perpetual and for us to be fodder? In that case do I want to be the fodder – isn’t that daft?
And on moving on. We haven’t even had the truth yet to be able to move on. Scotland wants to hide the truth and not confront it. As they learned in South Africa – you cant move on unless you have truth and reconciliation and acknowledgment of wrong doing and yes reparations where necessary. Then we can move on. What you are actually proposing is to continue on with an open conspiracy and open corruption. Why on earth should we do that?
Fischer in and I’d be doing cartwheels, nae kiddin’
BRTH
As always, I enjoy reading your post, and agree with a large portion of it.
However, it is not as simple as saying that Celtic was a charity and is now a corporation. Charities can be incorporated. It is not an either or.
Going to the some of the points raised today, there should be questions about the methods of, and restrictions on, shareholding. Many clubs have shareholders trust. Others such as Bayern Munich have 80% of their shares owned by fans, and there are restrictions on the maximum shareholding anyone individual can have.
While I dont disagree that Celtic has been a corporation for most of its existence, that does not deny its heritage as a charity and trust. On one level of discourse, someone may own the shares in Celtic, but that doesn’t mean that they own Celtic. Even to the degree that Celtic is now simply a PLC, that does not mean that the questions many posters on here are asking are irrelevant or do not need to be answered. Even as S/h’s they have the right to express their views on what kind of corporation they wish Celtic to be.
I agree that, on one level, the current set up is a lot better than what we used to have, and what many others have. But that doesn’t mean that it is good enough, and it certainly doesnt mean that we shouldn’t be questioning things done by the Club.
HH
the_huddle
16:01 on
28 July, 2013
‘Brilliant post from Brogan etc at the end of the last article:’
As I recall he’s the poster who assured us less well connected ones that LNS played with a straight bat.
Or am I confusing him with someone else?
Sorry got caught up in something
Tommy coyne 41%
Charlie nic 32%.
Mcgrory’s record is quite extraordinary. 472 goals in 445 games is just astonishing!
Dutch websites are having great fun with that Fischer article.
One of the quotes says “£3m wouldn’t buy 1 of his boots”.
Thunder Road
15:41 on 28 July, 2013
15:21 on
28 July, 2013
Jorge Cadete’s first goal for the tic still makes the hair stand on the back of my neck.
http://youtu.be/AEs7xvafkFk
HH
Thanks for posting that Zihuatanejo.
Im ashamed to say thats the last time i actually attended a game but what a night eh?
Sat in the temporary stand right behind the goal and it poured the whole night!
Thankfully it was an amazing show that Tommy’s team put on that it was a pleasure to get drenched :)
Was a great night that night,
The roar when Cadete scored was so loud it took one of the radio channels off
air it was so loud.
HH
Mike in Toronto
16:17 on
28 July, 2013
Barca also have some kind of representative democracy delegate style way of running their club.
At the moment we have an absentee owner who doesn’t attend matches or agms and whose views do not necessarily represent those of the Celtic support.*
* discounting the Alice In Wonderland approach favoured by many on here where statements can mean whatever you want them to mean.
Johnny Doyle v Real Madrid 2-0
Quote:from FF. ( expected hammering of the wee Albion not going to plan as yet)
“We’ve been the better team so far but still not playing well.
Nearly 15 minutes in to the game and we’ve not created a chance yet.
A good few long balls to John Daly so far as well and absolutely no width on the right hand side either”
22 mins gone 0 0
A stor – the problem is you don’t have any repentents………..
truly would not care if we never played the huns again. ironically im watching them on alba hoping they get gubbed and if they let themselves down again in the stands well all the better. why, when it does happen we have to face them again , do Celtic not ban all huns from Celtic park and hope the gesture is reciprocated. I would go even further and ask sfa to make semi finals and finals for one set of fans only on an alternate basis. Even give the hun scum first go.
time to say bye bye alba
The Rangers have that many on trial they have had to hire a judge to sit on the bench!
gsu
coat on
DougC
at 15.25
Pleased tae Meeya,pal
You hiv jist made a guid Point.
Germans are nothing..if .. not,Thorough.
Ah admire thur.. “Pay attenshun tae the Details Fur that is Where the Devil , Bides!”
attitude..in awe whit they set oota Dae.
Paul Lambert, said Many times..that he owes a Guid Penny tae the time which he spent in Germany. He thought that that Sojourn.. wiz a Sojourn tae Cherish.
Fur he learned a Loat.. ad Damn Loat.
This Young Celtic Team, Needs tae hiv Proper Coaching and… it is obvious tae me,anyway.. and possibly, tae you ,too.. that they are soitenly not receiving ,any of that from Neil and his crack Team of Back-Roomers.
A Big Percentage of Celtic’s Passing is Woeful.. Dismal.. Hellish.. Ah hiv nae fear of Running oota Adjectives.. that wid describe ,how .. Slipshod and Lackadaisical.. oor Passing movement , Generally is.
We gie the Ba’ Away… And we are Stupid enuff, tae Repeat it,over and over..
So that…. the next minute… after Losing a Goal, because of an errant Pass.. we. ..well.. Gie the Ba’ cheaply, again.. and often with mair Disastrous Results.
Ah hiv never played ..the Beautiful game.. Ma Youth wiz spent oan daeing ither things..
and Ah hiv tae tell you that..for the simple reason
that If A guy like Me. Who hiz never played the Game
Notices. that Celtic’s Main Adversary is no the Opposition…
But..
It is… THEMSELVES!
Fur they Gie the Football Away far to many times..and Often..
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARK!
Oor Coaches Must witness this.. Ah am sure they Do..
But..
They obviously, are doing Not One thing tae Remedy that Great Big Hole in Their Coaching Regimen.
It is Nuts.. Ah tell ya~
Yes, Celtic need .. eethur tae .. Send thur Whole Team over tae Germany fur some Expert Coaching..
or
Why Here is an Idea!
Why disnae Celtic jist Hire a German Coaching Team?
Hmmmmmm
Ah am glad Ah thought of that.
Nice Chatting
Kojo
Still ,Laughin’
Yesterday, there wiz a first clas
MY FAVOURITES
Favourite 5 players :
1. Paul McStay
2. Henrik Larsson / Jimmy Johnstone
3. Danny McGrain / Bobby Lennox
4. Tommy Burns / Johnny Doyle
5. Roy Aitken / Lubomir Moravcik
Yes there are 9 on my list, but this is really hard.
Favourite 3 Home Kits :
1. Lisbon 1967
2. Centenary 1988
3. 1980 V – Neck
Favourite 3 Away Kits :
1. 1984-86 Lime Green
2. 1982-3 White with green pinstripes V – neck
3. 1982-3 Green with white pinstripes V – neck
Favourite goals :
Every single one scored against THEM.
NegAnon2:
Now you are catching on.
and now all we have to do is rise above our own xenophobia and if we don’t we will become huns.
twist n turns
cheers for that hh