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Horse-trading on Euro league, Premiership leaders consolidate

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I’ve never known so many people to be keen to get to a game involving Motherwell as there are for tomorrow’s encounter at Celtic Park. Most of us haven’t been to a game since the marginally entertaining 3-3 Champions League draw last month.

Motherwell head a pack of six clubs all within three points of each other, with bottom of the table Partick Thistle just one point further behind at the bottom of the table. They are still in touch with fifth-placed Newco Rangers, who the Lanarkshire club could overhaul if results go their way this weekend, but the table is starting to look like a top five and bottom seven fight.

Each of the top four clubs, Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts and St Johnstone, are at home against opposition no higher than 6th place Motherwell, so there’s every chance the leading group will extend their advantage.

You and I have been speaking about a European League since 2004. During that time the remoteness of the possibility has come and gone but it’s back on the agenda, with Copenhagen director, Anders Horsholt talking about the proposed league between Danish, Dutch, Scottish, Belgian, Swedish and Norwegian clubs.

This proposal would be enormously beneficial for all involved, the only thing that’s needed is sufficient will on the part of clubs to make it happen, but even within this group of potential beneficiaries there are sub-interests which could pull focus in different directions.

Celtic’s interests would be best served with access to a European-wide league, replacing domestic weekend leagues. They would be able to compete and grow into one of the world’s biggest clubs in this scenario. The same would be true of the bigger Dutch clubs, less so for the Danish, and even the Belgians.

What we now have for the first time is a consensus that some change needs to happen among the disenfranchised. I’d bite your hand off for a scenario along the lines of what Horsholt discussed, but you have to consider this possibility in context of what’s happening at the moment with the financially elite European clubs.

They too want change. A meritocratic-ally-earned Europe-wide structure replacing domestic leagues falls short of their mooted closed-franchise system, but not by much. And it’s a lot more deliverable.

This is all horse-trading for now, but there’s a lot of money sitting on the table, so change is inevitable.

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  1. ernie lynch on 14th October 2016 12:08 pm

     

     

    So is the Party Line now that Peter Lawwell wasn’t involved in a failed tax avoidance scheme?

     

     

    Or is it that the failed tax avoidance scheme is really no different to an ISA? ___________________________________________________

     

     

    Ernie, it’s not a party line, but opinions.

     

     

    The LLP’s were, when they were utilised, an acceptable way of reducing tax liability.

     

     

    And yes, any legal method of reducing tax liability is no different to an ISA; or paying a large sum into a pension; or taking a reduced salary and increased dividend as a shareholder and Company Director.

     

     

    Peter Lawwell and other partners in the LLP’s did nothing illegal, immoral or underhand when they became involved. they followed financial advice from reputable companies.

     

     

    Once HMRC retrospectively declared that tax was liable for the income element of the LLP the monies and interest became due. Anyone who was informed of a tax liability and paid it has fulfilled their legal and moral obligation.

     

     

    That’s why I don’t see any difference in your view and the Daily Record’s view; unless, of course, you can explain the difference to me.

     

     

    FAC the Act

     

     

    KTF

  2. 67Heaven .. CHALLENGING THE LIE ..I am wee Oscar...... Ipox belongs to the creditors on

    TRADITIONALIST88

     

     

    Apparently 2021

  3. BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on

    ERNIE

     

     

     

    The Record article tried to smear our club as guilty of tax fraud due to involvement by some employees in an ill-advised scheme to reduce their tax payments.

     

     

     

    The comparison was as obvious as it was odious,that Rangers were at it,and so were Celtic.

     

     

     

    No explanation as to the ENTIRE innocence of the club was made,nor that the employees were playing with their own money as awarded to them,net of ALL appropriate social taxes,by the club.

     

     

     

    Indeed,they went further by stating that it was a £434m illegal scheme,suggesting to the hard of understanding that this was all down to them!

     

     

     

    You’re too intelligent to be taken in by this,yet still love the snide sideswipe snipe.

     

     

     

    Why not take aim at the deserving? Yer abusing yer talent by aiming wrongly.

  4. BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on 14TH OCTOBER 2016 12:23 PM

     

     

    My initial remark was pointing out the dissonance between Celtic promoting itself as a organisation founded on charity and its very well remunerated CEO being involved in a an aggressive, albeit ultimately failed, attempt at tax avoidance.

     

     

    The word hypocrisy springs to mind.

     

     

    And for those who are seeking to equate such tax avoidance schemes with run of the mill accountancy advice, they are either exceptionally naive or entirely disingenuous.

  5. ernie lynch on 14th October 2016 12:18 pm

     

     

    VFR800A8 on 14TH OCTOBER 2016 12:11 PM

     

     

    ‘My feeling is that Ernie’s opinion was badly informed and inappropriate when making that statement about peter Lawwell.’

     

     

    ###

     

     

    Was he involved in a failed tax avoidance scheme? Yes or no.

     

    _______________________________________________

     

    Yes he was.

     

     

    A couple of questions for you:

     

     

    Was he involved in tax evasion?

     

    Did he knowingly participate in a tax scheme he knew to be illegal?

     

    Did he do anything illegal or immoral?

     

    Did he avoid paying any tax legally due?

     

    Did he refuse to pay any tax that HMRC retrospectively informed him was due?

     

     

    I suspect you can easily answer the first 3 questions with a yes or no; the last 2 call for supposition. For my part, if there was any evidence that the answer was yes to the last 2, I would bet that the Daily Record would have taken out TV and billboard advertising to make that public knowledge!

     

     

     

    FAC the Act

     

     

    KTF

  6. If you earn enough to pay tax then you earn enough to pay tax. Seeking ways to avoid paying the tax due is immoral and robbing society, especially the less well off, the much needed funds for important public services por cierto.

  7. Paul 67 et al,

     

     

    Change must be beneficial, and not just for changes sake.

     

     

    I see no spectator advantage by watching us play Teams from Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and even Belgian teams.

     

     

    If the French and Portuguese teams are not in an Atlantic league or similar set up then it is doomed to mediocrity.

     

     

    We must aim higher. DD is not a stupid man, he still reckons we will eventually join the global league that is the EPL.

     

     

    HH.

  8. VFR800A8 on 14TH OCTOBER 2016 12:32 PM

     

     

    I don’t know enough about Peter Lawwell’s tax affairs to give you a definitive answer on any of those questions.

     

     

    I suspect you don’t either.

     

     

    My understanding is that the purpose of being involved in the failed, aggressive, tax avoidance scheme was to allow those involved to recoup some or all of the income tax they had paid by PAYE or otherwise.

     

     

    To me that doesn’t sit well for someone who is both the CEO of an organisation that promotes itself as being charitable in its origins and objectives, and a trustee of a charitable trust.

     

     

    Clearly you don’t have any issues with the situation, which of course is entirely up to you.

  9. BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on

    ERNIE

     

     

    It is NOT hypocrisy.

     

     

    The system insists that you play by the rules,and that if you don’t like them,tough.

     

     

    Change the rules or play by the rules. That’s how it has always worked.

     

     

    There isn’t any more point in paying more tax than is necessary because you disagree with the rules than there is ending up in prison for the same reason.

     

     

    Remember when Gordon Brown scrapped the 10p tax rate but reduced the main band from 22p to 20p?

     

     

    I’m a bit quick wi figures,and worked out that anyone below about £15k was worse off,with those above it better off,more so as your income increased.

     

     

    I didn’t write to HMRC and complain. I pocketed the difference. We all did. Some may have put it in to a charity,but I’ll bet few did.

     

     

    The rules are just that. Stop being a failed revolutionary and taking aim wi cheap jibes. Better ammo might have brought you success.

  10. Lovely ceremony at Rutherglen Town Hall to unveil Bobby Murdoch’s Plaque, i know some of the family and they were very proud today.Bertie, Yogi , John Clark were there, the Club were represented by Peter Lawwell.The speakers were Archie MacPherson, Tommy McAvoy and Bobby Jr.The plaque was unveiled by Bobby’s wife, his mother (93 on Monday),and Lord McAvoy.It will be on permanent display at the Town Hall Reception area.A copy is also going to Bobby’s primary school, St Columbkilles’.Celtic TV were there so it will be on the website or Youtube channel.

  11. Ernie Lynch on 14th October 2016 12:31 pm

     

     

    This wasn’t “run of the mill accountancy advice”; it was advice from companies such as Coutts & Co and Deloittes, hardly the bottom end of the market. So I am neither naïve or disingenuous. I take “run of the mill accountancy advice” because I cannot afford financial planners like Coutts & Co! I get told to increase my pension contribution in a level of hundreds of pounds to reduce my tax liability; those that go to Coutts & Co get advised on how to invest 10’s of thousands of pounds to reduce theirs.

     

     

    These schemes are not invested in by scammers as is the impression being given by the Daily Record.

     

     

    Por Cierto on 14th October 2016 12:39 pm

     

    I earn enough to pay tax and I pay all tax that I am legally bound to pay. Choosing to look at ways of maximising my tax relief is neither immoral or robbing the poor. It is looking at how legislation is structured to define what your tax obligation is, and then paying that tax.

     

     

     

    FAC the Act

     

     

    KTF

  12. BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on 14TH OCTOBER 2016 12:45 PM

     

     

    Have you ANY idea how these schemes work? How much people have to pay to take part in them? How completely disingenuous they are?

     

     

    If it was anyone unconnected with Celtic you’d all be condemning them.

  13. WAN way or another.

     

     

    Wireless, Fearless.

     

     

    Are we talking about the COMPUTER?

     

     

    The Prince of the Air is SATAN.

     

     

    Who knows Anything?

     

     

    Be Like Little Children in your Understanding.

     

     

    Praise the Lord ALWAYS.

  14. Por Cierto on 14th October 2016 12:39 pm

     

    If you earn enough to pay tax then you earn enough to pay tax. Seeking ways to avoid paying the tax due is immoral and robbing society, especially the less well off, the much needed funds for important public services por cierto.

     

     

    Hit’s the nail on the head for me.

     

    HH

  15. GlassTwoThirdsFull on

    European leagues have been “on the cards” since the early 90s.

     

    Still not here and I don’t see it happening now.

     

    Always gets spoken about when somebody is unhappy about something. Always gets resolved.

     

    At the moment the big (non-English) leagues are envious of the EPL money. This will be resolved with tweaks to the current format.

  16. ernie lynch on 14th October 2016 12:44 pm

     

     

    I don’t know enough about Peter Lawwell’s tax affairs to give you a definitive answer on any of those questions.

     

     

    I suspect you don’t either.

     

    You don’t and neither do I; but I can make a guess. However, you assumed you know enough to attack him based upon a smear by the Daily Record.

     

     

    My understanding is that the purpose of being involved in the failed, aggressive, tax avoidance scheme was to allow those involved to recoup some or all of the income tax they had paid by PAYE or otherwise.

     

    As with any tax scheme the goal is to reduce current and future liabilities, and if appropriate, recoup overpaid taxes. All above board; and in fact, not avoidance if we are being absolutely accurate. It’s reducing tax liability. Words like failed, aggressive and avoidance are used by journalists to allude to something illegal or immoral; it worked on you I guess

     

     

    To me that doesn’t sit well for someone who is both the CEO of an organisation that promotes itself as being charitable in its origins and objectives, and a trustee of a charitable trust.

     

     

    Clearly you don’t have any issues with the situation, which of course is entirely up to you.

     

    If he had done something illegal, or failed to pay any retrospective tax due, yes it’s an issue. You are judging him as guilty without knowing the detail of the facts. It’s the type of emotive and unbalanced response I’d expect in a debate with my 15 year old grandson!

     

     

    Anyway, have a good day! I need to get some work done!

     

     

     

    FAC the Act

     

     

    KTF

  17. Good afternoon CQN.

     

     

    I’ll be in Hamburg for the Glasgow Derby next weekend. I know there are a few Irish bars there but I wondered does anyone know of a Celtic friendly bar that may show the game? Possibly a St Pauli pub?

     

     

    Thanks in advance.

     

     

    HH EnnisBhoy

  18. Thanks to Col on twitter for this….or there again maybe not :)

     

     

    Two biologists have twins. One they called Johnny and the other they named control.

     

     

    Hail Hail

     

     

    Matt (who was told by my Dad that I shouldn’t end up the richest man in the graveyard…stuck to that all my life)

  19. Petec @ numerous and even more numerous.

     

     

    My friend, you are no doubt aware that You Tube is owned by Google.

     

     

    Google have stated that they are proud of their tax avoidance schemes, and subsequently pay a pittance in tax. Perfectly legal of course.

     

     

    So by continuing posting You Tube links, some may say that you are condoning their actions. :-)))))

     

     

    Cheers and Hail, hail.

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