Yesterday I wrote that you and I were conditioned to what lay ahead in Dortmund. If you expected any different, that’s on you. My point was, “We are in no way the finished article, but Celtic will gather important information tonight”. In this respect, the game could not have gone better. The message was writ large, Celtic cannot play Tier 1 teams in the Champions League as though they were playing Ross County.
The danger signs were there in the opening 150 seconds. For that entire period, Celtic took the game to Dortmund, attacking with the gusto only someone with no memory of the consequences of such bravado. Thereafter, Borussia Dortmund got the ball and scored. At will.
Out of possession, I repeatedly counted six Celtic players in the Dortmund half, with yellow jerseys flying past them. Post-match, we learned that Celtic had modified their press into a more conservative model. This would perhaps explain why Nicolas Kuhn would press a second before anyone else joined in.
Teams press together. This takes practice to get right, we looked unrehearsed, embarrassingly so. Daizen Maeda was exceptional, I had scarcely said, he “could play at Tier 1 level” before he caused a goal. Kasper Schmeichel had his best game for Celtic (let that sink in), while Cameron Carter-Vickers was clearly missed.
There is such a scarcity of left footed central defenders that I doubt Auston Trusty has played on the right a dozen times in his life. His body shape was as unrehearsed as Celtic’s press throughout the night.
The record books will not show that Dortmund took the foot of the gas in the second half. Celtic calmed a little during that period and continued to make chances, some of which would have been rewarded on another day. Valle and Hatate both looked comfortable in possession.
Co-commentators seldom illuminate our thinking but Neil Lennon was exceptional in his analysis. He twice played for Martin O’Neill sides who returned from Barcelona with a draw, and beat them at Celtic Park with 21% possession. He was also there when Gordon Strachan’s side faced Milan at the San Siro in the last 16 of this competition and held the line until extra time.
As Celtic manager, Neil defended home and away to Lazio, winning on both occasions. Martin, Gordon and Neil were all capable of learning lessons. What Brendan Rodgers does with the information he learned last night is open to conjecture.
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FANADPATRIOT 👍
TEXASTIM
I agree. 5-4-1 and ten behind the ball at any given time. It’s worth trying at this point.
Taylor, Kuhn and Kyogo benched as their lack of strength makes them next to useless in such a game.
Just give the job to Paul67. He clearly doesn’t want Brendan to have it, and perfectly points out where Brendan (and I assume Ange) got it wrong.
The one thing that stuck out was how soft and physically weak we are …we committed 6…that’s 6 fouls when we probably should have being doing our best to clatter them or at least participate in some dark arts ….slowing the game down , feigning injury, oh for a crunching tackle or two
Now we’d probably still got beat but maybe not
7 !!
Paul 67,
If lessons were to be learned they would have been learned by now.
For our next away games we will modify our style while retaining the same philosophy.
However poor play will be punished. Poor possession on the ball will be exploited
Poor positioning will be exploited
Poor passing will be exploited
Missed opportunities will be punished.
Simple mistakes will be punished.
We need to be all we can be. We were not last night.
We go to Ross County on Sunday. On paper we should thrash them.
Ross County are to Celtic what we are to Dortmund . But by a m6ch bigger margin.
With our resources, our manager and our squad there should be very few difficult days in Scotland
We should concentrate on perfecting our own basic skills and cutting out mistakes, even if we know mistakes will not be punished in Scotland.
Cut out the obsession with refereeing mistakes and focus what we could do better.
This is how we prepare for European football given that we will not drastically alter our basic philosophy.
HH. IBWT
GLASSTWOTHIRDSFULL on 2ND OCTOBER 2024 12:16 PM
So, after months of success and fewer mentions than a former chairman of another club, something goes wrong and all of a sudden the word Brendan appears! No one could have predicted that…..
Under Lennon we got two CL group stages in six years. I would have hoped we would be aiming for a bit more than that!
In Strachan’s time we were a pot two team and were in Europe’s top 20 rich list. A million miles from where we are now.
You would be as well asking why Strachan didn’t just copy Jock Stein’s tactics and go and win the thing.
—————
Absolutely spot-on with every point.
Especially the mention of Brendan, which has been lacking throughout an amazing start to our domestic season.
Sad really.
The result was a disaster, let’s be honest. Difficult to shine it up otherwise.
Firstly, it’s not the first such result like that. We’ve had hammerings in Europe before. Our corporate memory is amnesic.
Secondly, and more worryingly, I expect similar results again. Maybe even in this same campaign.
Many of the weaknesses, discussed at length on here, came to the fore last night.
Full back frailties
Lack of height
Lack of strength
Lack of defensive midfielder
Over playing along the back 4 and keeper
If nothing else, Dortmund exposed our weaknesses and gave us good info re where we need to improve.
I agree, we are not tough and strong enough.
But we tolerate and indeed endorse that with blamung the referee for everything.
One example, against Falkirk we all shouted at the referee when Alex Valle was just not strong and physical enough
HH.
Hello Fellow Celtic fans,
I am not going to go back and slag off our manager and players. We know it was a nightmare, but we wake up from it and look ahead. I don’t think many of us thought we were going to get anything out of that game last night, but it was the individual errors and multitude of misplaced passes that I think surprised us. Those players are hurting, both personally and professionally. They know that they have let their team and fans down, so the best things is to get ready for the next game, regardless of the opposition. they will not be feeling sorry for themselves as they know we were well skelped on the night. It is now about how fast we can recover from this result. The press and naysayers will not let us forget it anytime soon, and that’s fine. Sometimes you learn more about your team and players after a tough result. Those Bhoys need us behind them, as does our manager, Brendan. Yes we hurt and we are the laughing stock at the moment, but we need to come together and do what we do best, support our team.
Hail Hail.
Sean
We will not Learn lessons, we need to optimise what we hav got.
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/y2JS99yzcWaJLG5N/
HH.
We have a slow back 4 and at that level Greg doesn’t have the physicality to compete. Until we fix that problem to avoid getting humped the following required:
– defence lines up 10 yards further back
– full backs stay at home
– midfield 3 play narrow
– wingers drop back to form a mid 5
– hold up centre forward
– Reo and Arne alternate as support for CF
– Paulo to pick up their main play maker
We may still lose but at least we can make them work for it
Itsnotthathardcfc
VINNIETHEDOG @ 1:32 PM,
Yes, spot on…
We have upped our physicality, pace and technical ability hugely in recent seasons but we still look way behind these top teir teams
The way Adeyemi “won” a penalty and they cynically targeted our players like Engels is an unfortunate but necessary part of the game at that level
Athletico are masters at it of course and we succumbed last season as well
Hopefully we’ll get better with conditioning and experience
Though we are still four or five top quality players away from where we need to be…
Hail Hail
Folk moaning about Lenny v weaker teams.
How exactly is that relevant ?
The issue alls summer was about how we step up and compete in Europe v top teams. That’s what we are debating. Not v Falkirk or Morton.
Facts are both Lenny and Strschan clearly did this and reached last 16. BR has had us humiliated more times than not v any decent opposition. He refuses to take a humility pill and be pragmatic.
OK, I’ll address the elephant in the room.
Did Engles look particularly poor because:
1. the tactics and shape were wrong;
2. the collective/those around him played poorly;
3. no other German team signed him because he was out of his depth?
If it’s the latter, we’ve just hosed £11m on a very average player.
BURNLEY78 @ 2:06 PM,
“The issue alls summer was about how we step up and compete in Europe v top teams.”
Agreed…
Yet…
Gordon gets a reputation for being pragmatic
However he never got a UCL away result in his career
Brendan Rodgers has, so who is the pragmatist?
If we recreate Fortress Celtic Park, we may well see us advance in the UCL this season
Hail Hail
All our fekin yesterdays on here.Lenny,WGS,Ange,nothing to do with present.We got some right royal humpings from all those as well.
Dortmund were not in great form previous,Brendan thought it a chance to have a go,maybe worth the gamble.As we witnessed,Dortmund picked last night to play their best game since last season.Adeyemi,and Gittens,Brandt,unplayable.Our team,showing a defence with two left footers,one having his second game,a midfield,playing their first serious game together,and no one hitting any form.Their first three goals,a ricochet of a knee that put Adeyemi through,a penalty,and an unstoppable shot.We have watched this play out for years,we never get a slice of luck.No excuse,but fact.
Mistakes were made,but we have time to look at them.Anyone thinking that Brendan is not feeling the same as us today,get real.We won’t make the same mistake again.Roll on the weekend.Get on the park get it out of the system.
That awkward moment when even Neil Lennon is better than Brendan Rodgers
THE BLOGGER FORMERLY KNOWN AS GM @ 2:12 PM,
Arne has just turned 21 and he was cynically targeted by the opposition last night,
That suggests the German’s are well aware of this young man’s potential
He is a great young prospect that is in the right place to make the grade – he will get better with experience and be a top midfield player
Hail Hail
BOURNESOUPRECIPE @ 2:16 PM,
It’s as if the Ten In A Row never happened!?
Hail Hail
as David 66 mentioned, every professional player should be able to adapt to any system immediately, even during game time.
playing defensively and interupting the other teams patterns of play might not be pretty to watch but teams do it all the time to celtic, somone metioned morton in the cup, it is about matching runners, blocking spaces, and clearing the ball, and waiting on that break.
even the very best teams play defensively, play for a result, it just depends who the opposition is.
GOAL DIFFERENCE means everything in this league format means everything to us.
stop getting doings of 5,6,7.
go to atlanta and defend, dont go and play open football.
TURKEYBHOY @ 2:13 PM,
A vast amount of uncommon sense in that rant:))
Hail Hail
Has Brendan’s PR rehabilitation as a Celtic great now been abruptly derailed by this Dortmund drubbing?
Weeks ago I was giddy with anticipation becos he had instilled belief and verve in this squad and added – seeming – better quality to it. Right from the US friendlies we have looked really fresh and compelling this season. I wasn’t alone in cheering Brendan and our Bhoys cos we did look the business and that hasn’t evaporated only on one shite result.
So this laddie’s not for turning. I’m still high on board the Carnlough Caravan.
He’s still a top bloke and top manager for me; mibby the best we could hope to attract.
EKBhoy,
Yes,that all looks good on paper,until you play world class players at the top of their form.That whole system breaks down when the “Hold up”CF does’nt.Its all easy on paper.
Anyway,last night is gone,out of my head now.Lets see what future games hold.Time to judge CL is in January.
TURKEYBHOY on 2ND OCTOBER 2024 2:22 PM
Yes,that all looks good on paper,until you play world class players at the top of their form
There weren’t any world class players in the team we faced last night. Adeyemi and Brandt looked like world beaters but they cant make the German national squad.
We might have played them into form but their domestic record this season isnt great
as a ps.
i hear a lot of mentions that the play off 16 is our new holy grail and domestic trebles are just a mere side track.
get to that play off, and face anyone above us in the rankings, and we will lose by an aggregate score.
still it will get the tartan army clones a day out somewhere nice.
A wee personal fitba anecdote…
Our last O55s game of the season 2 Friday’s back was against league leaders Juve Legends; a top side with x4 ex-internationals (socceroo, kiwi and x2 sth koreans) playing for them.
To try combat their easy possession, I sent the team out in a 4-5-1 and it worked… For 30mins.
Then we got tired. Ragged. Plus I had to rotate some subs on and the shape kinda buckled.
1-0 at HT but ended up a 4-0 loss.
Post-game, all the boys felt great that the new formation had nearly worked.
BUT, we played them in our normal 4-3-3 earlier in season and got beat 4-1 on their patch.
We felt better about being defensive minded, but nicked a goal while getting run ragged in the earlier season match.
Anyways….
FUNNYOLDGAME CSC
Testing
still it will get the tartan army clones a day out somewhere nice.
Nice way to describe our support……
st stivs
reprehensible – whats up – unhappy that someone who didnt take their seat v falkirk travelled to germany ?
throw in words like plastic and slag the song sheet next time too
So Lennon is better than BR and Engels is pish?
Bit knee-jerk maybe? If Engels isn’t quite at that level, he’s not alone. Why are we digging out the youngster who’s only played a handful of games for us?
I dont think dismissing past successes in an effort to play down last nights humiliation is a good look, or helpful.
Using whataboutery to excuse that first 45 minutes gets us nowhere.
Celtic40me,
Brandt and Adayemi are part of the German squad.Brandt has been part of it for years.
Adeyemi was one of the main reasons Dortmund got to the final last.He ripped PSG to shreds,and a few other teams.World class in my book.
Celtic40me,
Just how does looking back help?Mystery to me.
spikeysauldman on 2nd October 2024 2:43 pm
st stivs
i know people who went to this game as a jolly trip going for the crack, they got tickets via german friends.
they have not been to celtic games at home ever on a paid for ticket of their own.
corporate hospitality junkies ,
they go to say they had an “experience”
like the tartan army.
defeat matters not a jot.
WGS had some bad nights, blew the league and played some poor football. He also got us through to the last 16 twice
Lenny had some of the worst performances in Europe, blew the ten and was a disaster that season but he also gave us some of our best nights against difficult opposition. He also, first time round won us ten points
Both had failures but they also had the sort of European successes that Brendan hasnt had. Its perfectly relevant to mention them if we are looking to achieve similar success, its recent enough for it to have some relevance to the most important issue facing the club at the moment
Neil and Strachan had us playing a brand of football that quite easily lent itself to shutting up shop. We played much more one dimensionally under them. So while we could get results in Europe, we could also get absolute stinkers against very poor sides because we lacked the ability and systems to break down poorer opponents.
Under the brand of football that Rodgers has implemented, going back to 2017 – trebles are now a common feature. 5 in 8 years with two doubles. Unprecedented. A direct result of the football BR introduced.
Ange continued this after Lennon implemented his changes and now we’re back to great attacking football that destroys domestic opponents but falls a part against top sides in Europe.
it needn’t become a Lenny vs WGS vs Ange debate, but it doesn’t always seem to get turned into one, probably as a diversion from the sort of thing thats staring us in the face today