Yesterday I wrote that you and I were conditioned to what lay ahead in Dortmund. If you expected any different, that’s on you. My point was, “We are in no way the finished article, but Celtic will gather important information tonight”. In this respect, the game could not have gone better. The message was writ large, Celtic cannot play Tier 1 teams in the Champions League as though they were playing Ross County.
The danger signs were there in the opening 150 seconds. For that entire period, Celtic took the game to Dortmund, attacking with the gusto only someone with no memory of the consequences of such bravado. Thereafter, Borussia Dortmund got the ball and scored. At will.
Out of possession, I repeatedly counted six Celtic players in the Dortmund half, with yellow jerseys flying past them. Post-match, we learned that Celtic had modified their press into a more conservative model. This would perhaps explain why Nicolas Kuhn would press a second before anyone else joined in.
Teams press together. This takes practice to get right, we looked unrehearsed, embarrassingly so. Daizen Maeda was exceptional, I had scarcely said, he “could play at Tier 1 level” before he caused a goal. Kasper Schmeichel had his best game for Celtic (let that sink in), while Cameron Carter-Vickers was clearly missed.
There is such a scarcity of left footed central defenders that I doubt Auston Trusty has played on the right a dozen times in his life. His body shape was as unrehearsed as Celtic’s press throughout the night.
The record books will not show that Dortmund took the foot of the gas in the second half. Celtic calmed a little during that period and continued to make chances, some of which would have been rewarded on another day. Valle and Hatate both looked comfortable in possession.
Co-commentators seldom illuminate our thinking but Neil Lennon was exceptional in his analysis. He twice played for Martin O’Neill sides who returned from Barcelona with a draw, and beat them at Celtic Park with 21% possession. He was also there when Gordon Strachan’s side faced Milan at the San Siro in the last 16 of this competition and held the line until extra time.
As Celtic manager, Neil defended home and away to Lazio, winning on both occasions. Martin, Gordon and Neil were all capable of learning lessons. What Brendan Rodgers does with the information he learned last night is open to conjecture.
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If only we played like the way we did the day we won the Coronation Cup.
Aye,and the 7-1 game.
FFS.
All our future opponents playing tonight.Some crackers.Atalanta up first,5.45.Villa v Bayern,later.
st stivs
fair point but you should have mentioned that you knew a few…
it came across as tarring the whole support
AN DÚN on 2ND OCTOBER 2024 2:53 PMAN DÚN on 2ND OCTOBER 2024 2:53 PM
If Brendan can adapt then the conversation is invalid, he certainly looked like he was capable of playing a more pragmatic style las season in the CL, but at some point do we need to talk realistically about what sort of football we want our manager to play?
Our domestic performances were poor from the home draw against Atletico Madrid until a couple of months later. Was the change in style, the more pragmatic football, carried into our domestic performances which showed very little of high tempo all out attack we see now?
I Stood in a scottish bakery 8 years ago and listened tae a wee harry wragg’s supporter, he really was rantin about 7-0 7-0 7-0 aye youse better get used tae that as that’s all you will be seein, so in my bravado I replied “nae way, we’ll beat that mob” meanin man city, did I think that nae way as they were runnin amok in the EPL, but when they did come tae parkheid, 15 days later, they had tae come behind 3 times tae gain a draw, as I said this was a side that on a 10 game winning run under the much vaunted Pep.
Oh we lost our next home game to Borussia Mönchengladbach, but tied with them over in the fatherland before losing again at home tae barca finishing our campaign with another credible draw at Maine Road where again they had to come from behind to get a tie in this dead rubber game, as the limeys called it.
Oh the hunterlopers are having a field day the day with their crocodile tears plus another of their too much money in their hands supporter has bailed them out again by paying hagi baba’s greengages so all is well once again on the hun front
I’ve already said that I don’t know how realistic it is to coach a team our brand of football then go to the polar opposite.
Ange and Brendan pour scorn on such ideas.
I recall PSG blowing a four goal lead to Barca because they couldn’t shut up shop. Barca blew a 3 goal lead at anfield.
I’m sure their fans were asking the same question we’re asking today about defensive set ups. It may not be that straightforward.
AN DÚN
I know it’s a different level but Arteta does it really well.
an dun.
i personally think it is easier to play the defensive game than all out attack.
sure it is physical and needs fitness but it is acheivable.
ange ball, imho, often results ies for tottingham
Imo, things won’t really change unless and until we can play in a better league. Nothing in Scotland can prepare our players for the likes of Dortmund.
As for now, our manager, whatever his faults, has us playing the most entertaining football I have had the privilege to watch in many a year.
personally think it is easier to play the defensive game than all out attack.
sure it is physical and needs fitness but it is acheivable.
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I agree. It’s much easier. Which is why poorer managers do it.
To do it well means getting those physical players.
If you want those physical players to be technically very good as well in order to switch between styles, be prepared to break the bank.
We may have to decide what type of team we want to be. A Lennon type or Rodgers type. I’m very happy with the latter. All day long.
I agree Geebee. Arsenal do it well. As do Real Madrid.
It’s a helluva premium you’re paying for such players. Well out of our range.
We’d need to commit to one brand and stick to it imo.
i dont want us to lose 5,6,7, in europe. ever.
and i dont want to lose domestic trophies to get to last 24 teams.
over now. If we cannot or will not learn from failure, then we do have a problem.
but as Eratic said earlier, look at where Scottish football is closely, and of course, the money angle and until we get into a better quality league, then I fear no improvement will be forthcoming sadly, and that IS, the reality. If you are not tested, then humping the hunscum every time aint gonna help the cause
KiNGLuBO
3 more potential heavy defeats to Atalanta , Leipzig and Villa for the manager and team to ponder . Last night’s ‘acid test’ saw a surge in sales of Gaviscon among the support . The fire in the bellies needs to be on the park , not in the stands .
European football must still remain our number 1 priority .
We are measured on our own merit.
With domestic football we are unfortunately measured against the huns. ( Just look at the amount of bandwith they get on these pages )
HH.
CELTIC40ME on 2ND OCTOBER 2024 2:59 PM
I think he can certainly change the formation and personnel to make us more difficult to break down. By a fundamental change in how we’re coached ? No manager will do that. Better to change the manager.
I still think fundamentally we have to decide if we’re prepared to watch less attractive football every week in order to bring in the Ledley’s and Jirosik’s to shut out in Europe.
Even then, the gap has grown and we’d still probably lose albeit not by as much.
Besta, are the best team in Iceland. Does anyone think they would do well in Europe at all. ? Scottish football is one rung up the ladder from that, I suggest we have to get used to that
KINGLuBO
was not expecting a winning result last night and probably the same for many others so last night was a oppertunity to play a plan b system from the start but many of the weaknesses, discussed at length on here, came to the fore last night.
Full back frailties
Lack of height
Lack of strength
Lack of defensive midfielder
Over playing along the back 4 and keeper
as someone posted earlier would probably not have helped , we got battered and if not for the goalie it could have been 10 or 11.
Brendan knows that no serious club would employ him as he’d then be held to account for his stubborn spoiled brat refusal to learn the embarrassing lessons in what is now 8 years of repeating the same school boy errors on the biggest stage available in Celtic the brand era.
When fans become customers who have no rights not even an unscripted AGM question then you really do have a generation of Dumbfoundedness.
It seems that Brendan the Huge perma tanned Ego isn’t the only spoiled brat in the Celtic sphere.
AN DÚN on 2ND OCTOBER 2024 3:45 PM
I think we saw where Brendan’s priorities lie when he spent 9m on Idah in the summer window to sit on the bench in our two champions league games.
I might not be remembering right but didnt he look to play 3 centre halves first time round, he did against Athletico and we looked more solid even when one of them was Nat Phillips
I sincerely hope we do not retreat from the type of football we have been playing since last Christmas or so.
Sure, for now we need to be more pragmatic away from home in Europe, whatever the competition. Let’s see if we can do that, while putting on a good show at home.
But there appears to be a stability at the club and a plan. Everyone just has to hold their nerve and stick with it.
They look a decent team, but I wouldn’t put Villa in the same category as Dortmund, Atalanta or Leipsig.
Lets see how they get on tonight against Bayern.
The Horsings in Europe under Brendan continue but let’s make ourselves feel that wee bitty better by having a go at Neil Lennon there’s some amount of absolute balloons on here.
I posted yesterday i didnt want this game to come so early in the season. a defeat was more than likely, a battering was a possibility.The feel good factor and momentum could be lost
Unfortunately the manner of defeat was the worst possible outcome.
As a professional footballer, you can only come off that park feeling utterly inadequate at that level. The danger now is that spills into the bread and butter of the SPL.
Atlanta away is arguably an even bigger challenge . Shut up shop, defend for our lives and get out with a narrow defeat,
AN DÚN on 2ND OCTOBER 2024 3:09 PM
I recall PSG blowing a four goal lead to Barca because they couldn’t shut up shop. Barca blew a 3 goal lead at anfield.
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Let’s not forget the Liverpool fans keeping the Barca players up all night before the game by firing fireworks at their hotel windows and smashing the windows of their team bus en-route to Anfield for the game.
Think that had an effect on the Barca players.
Very Hunnish support.
Will Celtic’s 60,000 folk ever be wakened just like Dimmy Dog? 👇️
https://x.com/argosaki/status/1840329545548976173
Dortmund’s wage bill of £207.2m is 3.4x that of Celtic
Dortmund’s squad cost is 6.1x that of Celtic
Dortmund have 2.9x the revenue of Celtic
Another thing that did us no favours was having to play an early evening game on the Saturday, before a trip to Germany to play an enormously demanding game on the Tuesday evening . Wouldn’t have avoided a defeat but an extra day might have benefitted a Celtic side who were decidedly off the pace . Other associations can rearrange domestic fixtures to help their club sides inEurope . Did we even ask , or are we just slaves to the tv broadcasters?
scullybhoy on 2nd October 2024 5:38 pm
Dortmund’s wage bill of £207.2m is 3.4x that of Celtic
Dortmund’s squad cost is 6.1x that of Celtic
Dortmund have 2.9x the revenue of Celtic
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Can you please now do the comparison with Celtic and Ross County
I believe the disparity will be greater.
We need to bridge any gap.
Thanks and HH.
We buy attacking players who can dominate teams at home. Teams like Dortmund are bigger, better, stronger and faster than these players, all over the park. It’ll stay that way unless we end up in a league that puts us on a comparative level financially. I know it must be difficult to go from steamrolling Scottish team, with attacking play, to being far more cautious. However, surely we can make small adjustments that help, e.g. play four in midfield and don’t press as high. Some other simple things might help, like not throwing the ball to the opponent on three consecutive occasions in second half (we also do this in Scotland). I’d guess we’re better than a few or several teams that play in the Bundesliga, but do these teams get hammered as we did?
It’s a amazing what comes out of the woodwork after we get pumped in the CL – it was a long day in work.
Park the bus. We cannot hope to beat the elite. ‘Celtic should have scored more’ is no use when we were lucky it was 7 – 1. If adeyemi had stayed on, I reckon it would have been double figures.
Do any cqners who were at CP when we beat Barceloana remember the fact we parked the bus – nope, they remember tony watt!
Changing tactics in full view, thereby admitting you’re wrong is not something BR can do.
!Bada Bing!! on 2nd October 2024 12:51 pm
Eratic- Sparta Prague with a fraction of our money,drew with Stuttgart last night, who put 5 past Dortmund a couple of weeks ago
Listening to Talk Sport this morning it was mentioned that Rangers had beaten Dortmund 6 – 4 on aggregate to knock them out of the Europa a couple of years ago on the path to the final.
judging by that nothing is impossible.
I seem to remember the league game right after the Barcelona win where Watt scored, we drew with St Johnstone at home 1.1, I’m sure we will win in Dingwall if we play our game be committed and take our chances.
Good afternoon CQN.
Looking forward to a readback of the comments tonight with a cuppa in hand.
As an initial tuppence I actually feel sorry for Brendan.
After a coaching career spanning 20 years …. a wee boy who once couldn’t get into his team …handed him his ass last night.
That’s a tough one to take for any professional.
I suspect it will prompt significant quiet reflection.
From that, I hope, comes more effective action.
Not as enjoyable as I had expected.
Still lots of angst.
Wasn’t the best cup of tea either.
BACK TO BASICS – GLASS HALF FULL on 2ND OCTOBER 2024 6:27 PM
Good afternoon CQN.
Looking forward to a readback of the comments tonight with a cuppa in hand.
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If anybody has posted the team tactics that Brendan should have employed that would have ensured even a point, let us know 👍
I said that Kasper would have to be prepared for a bombardment last night and his days on easy street would end on German soil.
I’m sure he was not expecting the surge as the dam burst with Celtic’s mid been swept away in the torrent
The players and even I was spooked when I saw that cauldron and the massive yellow walls and Dortmund being urged on by an 83,000 crowd in the stadium. A result looked impossible but never expected a seven goals rout. Luckily we scored five against Bratislava and another last night so the goal difference is still reasonable.
Still six games to go and all to play for and get ready for Atalanta.
Watched Arsenal keep ten men behind the ball against the Italians for the majority of that match and get the draw.