On the long walk along London Road after the game on Saturday I overhead, “Any manager playing one up front clearly doesn’t have confidence in his team”. I hear variations on this quite often. It’s not true. In fact, I watched the hot favourites for the England and Wales (see what I did there) Premier League beat their main rivals with this formation last night.
Playing one up front can be as much of an attacking formation as playing two, or even three strikers. Any formation, 4 -2-3-1, 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 is not in itself overtly attacking or defensive. Even the often ridiculed 4-6-0 can be expansive.
There are a few ways to score goals. Martin O’Neill’s Celtic mastered the set-piece. For a period, a considerable percentage of our goals came either this way, or from cross balls. There’s also the classic long ball to a ‘big one up front’ who can knock it down to a penalty box poacher. Both these plays exploit the advantages of direct play, which in itself can break packed defences.
The modern game increasingly relies on alternatives, specifically creating space and movement. Don’t crowd the box, drag defenders out to allow pacey support players to break beyond them. At the very elite level, one of the game’s greatest ever goal-scorers, Christiano Ronaldo, exploits this space magnificently from the wings. Our own top striker, Leigh Griffiths, played a similar role before being handed the No. 9 role at Celtic. I suspect his best position isn’t, in fact, as a No. 9.
We need many things at Celtic, most specifically a defensive mid (another formation story), but we don’t need to revert to a 4-4-2. We need players who understand the importance of space in the final third, and who can exploit it.
Ronny has recruited a flood of wide players since arriving 18 months ago with very little success. Which has had an acute cost.
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Is anyone confident we will do some serious Champions League strengthening this transfer window?
HH
Weeminger
You could be right, esp on the Stokes front.
Maybes the bit about Cole is right as well, but ffs, as far from a RD kinda player as is possible.
HH
T29
Hey Ronny, you can have shite or you can have shit, takes your choice Ronny.
And you know for a fact that he has the final say !
Prove it
HH
THE EXILED TIM on 22nd December 2015 3:58 pm
It’s probably nonsense but the one thing I do know is that this board won’t be paying a player’s wage unnecessarily.
As to him not being a RD type of player. It comes back to something I said the other day. His type of football can be doesn’t always work against a packed defence, so he needed something different to call on. That might not work but at least it’s an acknowledgement that a change of style might be needed occasionally.
CHRISTMAS CELTIC
St Stephen’s Day 1891 League Home St Mirren W 2-1 Campbell , Brady
Christmas Eve 1892 Friendly Home Third Lanark W 3-2 McMahon , Madden 2
St Stephen’s Day 1892 Friendly Away Ardwick W 5-0, McMahon, Others Untraced
Christmas Day 1895 Friendly Away Bury D 3-3 Unrecorded
St Stephen’s Day 1895 Friendly Away Everton L 2-3 Unrecorded
Christmas Day 1896 Friendly Away Everton L 1-6 Unrecorded
Christmas Day 1897 League Away Clyde W 9-1Allan 5, Russell 2, McMahon, Campbell
St Stephen’s Day 1897 Friendly Home Sunderland W 1-0 Unrecorded
Christmas Day 1900 Friendly Away Blackburn Rovers L 1-2 Unrecorded
Christmas Day 1901 Friendly Away Manchester City – Match was abandoned after 60 minutes with Celtic trailing 1-2
St Stephen’s Day 1901 Friendly Away Bohemians W 2-1 Unrecorded
St Stephen’s Day 1902 Friendly Away Bohemians W 3-2 Unrecorded
St Stephen’s Day 1903 League Home Port Glasgow Athletic W 4-1 Gilligan 3, Hay
Christmas Eve 1904 League Home St Mirren W 1-0 Somers
St Stephen’s Day 1906 Friendly Away Woolwich Arsenal W 2- 0 Unrecorded
Christmas Day 1907 Friendly Away Blackburn Rovers L 0-4
St Stephen’s Day 1908 League Home Clyde L 0-1
Christmas Day 1909 League Away Kilmarnock W 1-0 Quinn
Christmas Eve 1910 League Away Morton D 1-1 Quinn
Christmas Day 1914 Friendly Away Manchester United L 1-2 Unrecorded
St Stephen’s Day 1914 League Home Hamilton W 3-1 Gallacher 2, Quinn
Christmas Day 1915 League Home Airdrie W 6-0 Gallacher 3, McColl, Browning, McMenemy
Christmas Day 1920 League Away St Mirren W 2-0 McInally, Cassidy
Christmas Eve 1921 League Home Falkirk D 0-0
St Stephen’s Day 1925 League Away Cowdenbeath D 1-1 McLean
Christmas Day 1926 League Home Kilmarnock W 4-0 McInally 2, W McStay, McGrory
Christmas Eve 1927 League Away Hibernian D 2-2 Thomson, McGrory
St Stephen’s Day 1931 League Away Dundee United L 0-1
Christmas Eve 1932 League Away Aberdeen L 0-1
Christmas Day 1933 League Away Queens Park W 3-2 F O’Donnell, Napier, McGrory
Christmas Day 1934 League Home Queens Park W 4-1 Delaney 2, Crum, McGrory
St Stephen’s Day 1936 League Home Albion Rovers W 4-0 Delaney 2, Murphy, McGrory
Christmas Day 1937 League Home Kilmarnock W 8-0 Crum 2, Divers 2, Murphy 2, Delaney, McDonald
Christmas Eve 1938 League Away Aberdeen L 1-3 Delaney
Christmas Day 1943 League Southern Division Away Hamilton D 3-3 J Gallacher 2, McAuley
Christmas Day 1946 League Home Queens Park W 1-0 Rae
Christmas Day 1947 League Home Hearts W 4-2 McDonald 2, Bogan, Walsh
Christmas Day 1948 League Home Aberdeen W 3-0 McPhail, Paton 2
Christmas Eve 1949 League Home Queen Of The South W 3-0 Collins, Haughney 2
Christmas Day 1950 The Glasgow Cup Final Replay v Partick Thistle was POSTPONED
St Stephen’s Day 1953 League Away Clyde W 7-1 Mochan 2, Hemple, Higgins 2, Collins 2
Christmas Day 1954 League Home Clyde D 2-2 Boden, Collins
Christmas Eve 1955 League Away Hibernian W 3-2 Mochan 2, Sharkey
St Stephen’s Day 1955 Glasgow Cup Final Replay Hampden Rangers W 5-3 Collins 2, Sharkey 2, Fernie
Christmas Day 1957 League Home Queen Of The South L 1-2 Conway
St Stephen’s Day 1959 League Away Kilmarnock L 1-2 Mochan
Christmas Eve 1960 League Home Motherwell W 1-0 Divers
St Stephen’s Day 1960 League Home Dundee W 2-1 Conway, Byrne
St Stephen’s Day 1962 League Home Dunfermline W 2-1 OG, Hughes
St Stephen’s Day 1964 League Home Motherwell W 2-0 Hughes 2
Christmas Day 1965 League Home Morton W 8-1 McBride 3, Chalmers 2, Hughes 2, Murdoch
Christmas Eve 1966 League Away Aberdeen D 1-1 Lennox
St Stephen’s Day 1970 League Away Morton W 3-0 Chalmers, Lennox, Wallace
Christmas Day 1971 League Home Hearts W 3-2 Hood, Johnstone, Deans
St Stephen’s Day 1976 League Home Aberdeen D 2-2 Craig 2
Christmas Eve 1977 League Home Dundee United D 1-1 Edvaldsson
St Stephen’s Day 1977 FRIENDLY Away Queens Park L 2-3 Wilson, McCluskey
St Stephen’s Day 1987 League Away Dundee United W 2-1 Walker (pen), Miller
St Stephen’s Day 1988 FRIENDLY Home Red Star Belgrade D 2-2 Walker 2 (1 pen)
St Stephen’s Day 1989 League Away Hearts D 0-0
St Stephen’s Day 1992 League Home Dundee United L 0-1
St Stephen’s Day 1994 League Away Aberdeen D 0-0
St Stephen’s Day 1996 League Away Aberdeen W 2-1 Di Canio, Cadete
St Stephen’s Day 2000 League Away Dundee United W 4-0 Sutton 2, Larsson, Petrov
St Stephen’s Day 2001 League Home Livingston W 3-2 Larsson 2, Moravcik – Valgaeren was sent off for his second bookable offence
St Stephen’s Day 2002 League Home Hearts W 4-2 Hartson 3, Larsson
St Stephen’s Day 2004 League Away Hearts W 2-0 McGeady, Petrov – this was the day of the catastrophic Tsunami
St Stephen’s Day 2005 League Home Livingston W 2-1 Nakamura, Maloney
St Stephen’s Day 2006 League Home Dundee United D 2-2 O’Dea, Nakamura
St Stephen’s Day 2007 League Away Dundee United W 2-0 McManus, Vennegoor of Hesselink
St Stephen’s Day 2009 League Home Hamilton Academical W 2-0 Loovens, McGinn
St Stephen’s Day 2010 League Home St Johnstone W 2-0 Cha, Ki (ar la !!)
Christmas Eve 2011 League Home Kilmarnock W 2-1 Samaras 2
St Stephen’s Day 2012 League Away Dundee W 2-0 Samaras, Hooper
St Stephen’s Day 2013 League Away St Johnstone W 1-0 Van Dijk
Going back to previous blog asking to explain if DD was angry at RFC then why say what he said at
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/celtic/193206-dermot-desmond-rangers-will-return-to-the-top-level-of-scottish-football/
Note the timing. Oct 2012.
At that point he had no idea of the skullduggery at play. The interview predated CF leaks and LNS Decision in 2013.
Now if DD and MA as successful business men share some similar traits I think it a fair assumption that neither like being messed around.
No one as far as I know has questioned Phil Mac on his presentation of MA as being pissed off at DK and seeking to put things right in MA’s own way.
So why question how DD might feel on finding out in 2014 that the criticism he and Celtic had to face from 2004 onwards, when Celtic stopped trying to outwage what turned out to be financially doped wages using tax payers money, was caused by cheating?
I don’t know about you guys but I’d be spitting blood.
Now quite how I’d then respond is another story as Im not DD, but never in a million years would that response be silence and acceptance.
I’d be making my straight arrows.
Neil Lennon, WGS and PL have all said that an Old Firm manager has a shelf life of four years.
HH
And still the shout goes out,that Celtic authenticate or deem Crime inc to be the same club. kack!
i was pissed a few weeks back that our club took time to re-iterate its original statement.imo i would not have said a word.
They justify themselves by association to our well run club.Why should Celtic react to every media statement about the frauds from chaos.they dont.The cheat wants the oxygen of an authentic real club.
I find it interesting how the CFC not plc contingent do more to authenticate the cheating hun by acknowledging
their corporate structure(whatever that is) before our own.
We are being subjected to tremors of insecurity coming from our biased media who do nothing to investigate what went on during David Murrays reign.They are awaiting to be told.They are always waiting to be told.journalism is confusing to them.journalistic investigations is a no no. Tremors usually come before the big one and going by the court rolls each visit in January is a potential krakatoa.
look how their QC is already under pressure whilst interrupting SD QC to say the £5m back,now to me and i am sure yourselves you have giggled at huns ‘demoted”pit doon’,same club in a seamless transition from(erm!)liquidation tosh,coming away with their lying narrative might be ok in pubs around Bridgeton….no in a court of law.it will be shredded by an equally high paid QC on the other side.
Come on Celtic fans define yourself in Celtic.Celtic only
association with cheats is a no no,it will always be thus,not only today if you read this but in the years to come too.
Ronny to stay.we have worked everyday since our formation to get better and to win.I see no reason for changing that at this point in time,especially with the meejah pushing for it,
only one Celtic
our work is our success,
and remember we are champions in the land that gave us the reformation and more OO’s than NI.
We have work to do,somethjing we have never been afraid of,and yes that may mean commenting on cheating selfharmers when the time is right.not at the behest of everythin farted out by so called meejah or when a result goes against us.
:-)
be still Celts,we are together.
HH
AULDHEID on 22ND DECEMBER 2015 4:03 PM
DD will do whatever makes him the most money long term.
HH
Excelelnt article Paul
The most used argueement I have heard to attack Ronnie is his so called refucsal tp play 4-4-2.
the game is about posses ion nowadays and using that possession.
the key is having intelligent players who do good work when not in possession and skilful players who can use that possession to open up defences.
Doesoent matter how may “strikers” you have if you cant feed them because your midfield is fulfilled.
Aw Naw
I think you will find Malmo and Molde are not going for 5iar.
That is what our spend more or less guarantees us. We could reduce it and that would reduce the exposure of the manager to complaints about failing in Europe in qualifying games to not qualifying to qualify.
I’m not suggesting we should reduce our spend, merely pointing out that in comparison to Malmo and Molde it gives us something they don’t have a tilt at qualifying every year.
I think the wage comparison with the Scandies can be largely countered by their level of match fitness and being settled at the time we play them. Not totally, but in football terms the longer a team plays together as a settled unit the better it is.
In the interest of balance…. :)
First time commenting on this site in quite a while. What a depressing place it’s become.
The one-time go-to site for news and informed/witty and passionate comment on all things Celtic has now me come a site with comment I’d expect to read on the other site of the city.
Moans, groans, entitlement. They’re all there but it’s the entitlement that really is getting to me.
We want a competitive league; well, we’ve got one.
Ronny being slated all over the place and questions on his signings.His league record almost identical to the Magic hat this season yet we follow the SMSM in describing one is a dud in the Premiership ( and League Cup) ; the other a superman in the division below and turfed out the League Cup.
I seem to recall when we got SA and GMS in last winter’s window there was almost universal acclaim in this site. Same with young Christie.
Agree that Ciftci was a huge surprise and not my view of a Celtic striker but I believe Ronny a better judge than me. He has been badly let down by the Board in defensive signings but he’s coached a diamond in young KT.
Maybe this window we should go back to previous and sign nobody. The whingers can then whinge, the PL haters can hate and Ronny can try to develop the team.
Hope everyone has a good Christmas.
Finally, ref appointments for next two games may be a source of inspiration. SPFL taking the p**s with these two appointments. Let’s use that to our advantage.
AULDHEID on 22ND DECEMBER 2015 4:20 PM
I agree with every word of that.
I think they benefit more from not being a cash and carry for players more than any Scandinavian fitness stereotypes.
HH
An Tearmann
Am with you, well said…..letting the cheats justify themselves, as soon as our club say something the media will use it….. Their cheating days are over they need to try and live within their means but thankfully Mike Ashley has got them by the short and curlies so they have no means
Aw Naw
Which is guaranteed titles to open possibility to UEFA CL money without having to pay over the odds because your opposition are/were.
Weeminger
Again possibly, but what about Cifcti, the same as Cole, no.
HH
Auldheid,
guaranteed titles . Yes I agree. I think the gap between the clubs domestically with regards spending power is closer also. No Old firm.
HH
Jimmci 4.20
Post more often to make it better then
I agree with you put the pressure on the refs, embarrass them into making the correct decisions, it’s the way forward…. From Dougie Dougie to Cheat MacLean highlight every terrible decision, even Collum at the weekend, a fraud of a ref in my opinion
Had a great Day at going to see Celtic on saturday,i met up with a few old school tims prior to going over to see the unveiling of Big Billy showing off ‘luggy’ down the London road and then onto the game.congratulations to Motherwell,you merited your victory.
We can play better and we will.i got into a ‘debate’ with a fellow fan who was giving Keiran Tierney pelters after the motherwell player closed him down and robbed him of the ball late in the game,i mean ffs he is not in double figures yet in appearances,and the abuse he took was not merited.sad this customer satisfaction thing.
I bumped into Paul67 at the game for the first time,:-) hello,hope all you kano collectors raised loads.
went for a coke after with CRC,delaneys and Eddie in west brewery,met brian and paul,stop lurking:-)
kevin hope you have a good christmas when home from kazakstan/Turkey.
good evening haverin wi good tims
CultsBhoy(wi a smile)
There is currently a battalion o ex vinnies pupils oot on the HUNt for ye :-)))
by all means dissent what ye think is a wrong move by big Ped
never question his Timness.
its authentic.believe you me.:-)
hope your well
HH
Private company
Celtic were formed in 1888 and in 1897 the club became a Private Limited Company,[143] this was owned and run by several family “dynasties”.[144] These directors had a reputation of being very niggardly and authoritarian, as well as not showing loyalty to their players or managers. In particular they were known for continually selling their top players and not paying their staff enough, they also lacked ambition and many managers had run-ins with them due to this. Three of Celtic’s most legendary figures Billy McNeill, Jock Stein and Jimmy McGrory all suffered from this. The board tried to sell McGrory, Celtic’s greatest ever goalscorer, to Arsenal in 1928. Knowing how loyal he was to the club, they lured him to London under false pretences and despite his unhappiness at this, and Arsenal’s offer of making him the highest paid player in Britain, he refused to move. As well as this, throughout his whole career he was paid £8 a week, £1 less than the rest of the team. As a manager McGrory was also unhappy with the board as they controlled team selection, he considered resigning three years into his management as the club had almost been relegated. Despite scoring 550 goals in 547 games, although not being as successful as a manager, throughout his 35-year playing and managing career with the club they were generally unsuccessful and were always in Rangers’ shadow.[25][145]
Stein, who had also played for Celtic, took over the management of the club from McGrory in 1965 and revolutionised the team. He won nine successive league titles and the 1967 European Cup, as well as being runners-up in 1970,[146] with largely the team that McGrory had left behind.[citation needed] By the mid-70s Celtic were declining and Stein was struggling to replace the Lisbon Lions. He had also been seriously injured in a car crash in 1975 which had been said to have affected him badly. Stein rebuilt the squad and achieved a double in 1976–77.[147] However, the next season went poorly and the ability and commitment of many of these players was called into question.[148] The board decided to replace Stein in 1978. The recently appointed chairman, Desmond White, and Stein had a poor relationship and Stein left the club in a bad manner. Celtic’s official history was released at that time and Stein was criticised in the book for losing the 1970 European Cup. White and the directors had contributed to the book and Stein was unhappy with this criticism. Stein was offered a place on the Celtic board after he left, however, they wanted him to revive the ticket sales at the club. Stein felt this demeaning and he said was; “a football man, not a ticket salesman”. He declined this offer and decided to stay in management.[146][149]
McNeill, the European Cup winning captain under Stein, was brought in to replace him. After five seasons he asked for a contract with a wage rise as he felt he needed greater security; his predecessors all had informal “gentleman’s agreements” with the club. During his tenure McNeill had been the most successful manager in Scotland yet it was revealed that he earned less than his counterparts at Aberdeen, Dundee United and Rangers. McNeill also publicly asked the board for more money to invest in the playing squad. The following day the board announced they had unanimously rejected his requests and McNeill moved on to manage Manchester City stating that to remain at Celtic would have been humiliating.[146]
From wiki
Celtic took a bit of a gamble with Ronny Deila; I can just about understand that.
John Collins was appointed assistant; couldn’t understand that from the minute I heard the news.
From my reading on the 4-2-3-1 formation, the reason it is so widely used is because it is the most flexible formation out there and can be easily and quickly transformed to any other formation to counter opponents formations.
The problem is you need a manager who knows how to counter opponents formations when loosing control of the game.
Weeminger, Carlton Cole aye but 18 months at the top end of the wage structure, he’s no that different from what we already have, there’s plenty of non scoring strikers
Setting Free the Einsteins.
Well done on winning the quiz big fella :-)
———————————————————
Gordon -great post on Big Billy on Sat morning Thanks :-)
Garcia Lorca, your essay to on Saturday was great,you were there in spirit on saturday,you had to be after going to all those games in our history
Oldtim67 keep it lit mate,thought of you both(garcia) at the unveiling
HH to you all
have a great evenin Celts
:-)))
THE EXILED TIM on 22nd December 2015 4:28 pm
That’s what I’d have thought but who knows. I’m just looking for a plausible reason. There must be one surely.
grovelling apology/climbdown by Nevin as a result of threatened lawsuit by Cesc Fabregas ….
but, of course, we are better keeping our powder dry.
obviously, standing up to weasels like Nevin and publicly demanding the truth never works.
RONNY DEILA has today hit out at mineshafters on Celtic Quick News and insisted they’re to blame for the pressure he’s under.
A section of the Celtic support want the manager axed after he failed to guide his team to a single group stage win in Europe this season and lost at home to Motherwell at the weekend , a defeat that saw the Hoops’ lead at the top of the Premiership cut to a single point.
Celtic have a game in hand over second-placed Aberdeen and still have the chance to land the Treble and Deila insists he can’t understand the focus that is trained on him at Celticquicknews
Rumours swept the internet on Sunday night fueled by mineshafters on Celticquicknews claiming the Hoops boss would be sacked in the morning. They also claimed to support Celtic.
And Deila insists Paul Brennan is to blame for the hype.
In an interview with Winning Captain – who was nodding throughout the entire interview, the Norwegian said: “I follow football all the time and I have seen this before. You have to have a realistic picture of the whole thing and you can’t get carried away because sometimes you write the right things, but it’s very rare.
There are always ups, very high and very low, it’s never something in between. But if you see the overall situation when you are leading the league, into everything (League Cup and Scottish Cup) then I cannot understand everything is so unbelievably bad.
“It’s about getting clicks on the internet and it’s about selling newspapers, because it is unbelievable.
“There are hundreds of media and everybody needs a story and everybody gets caught into this and it affects everything.
“It affects the players, it affects the club and we need to stay calm inside. That is the most important thing. We need to be together and that’s what I feel. I feel united with the players and with the staff and the people in the club. No I don’t want to buy a book a DVD or a poster”
Deila was asked if Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea axing heaps yet more pressure on him and he said: “It just shows how crazy it is because there is so much emotion, so much focus around football nowadays.
“Yes we have challenges that we need to do better but when we stay united and are going forward then we can do it. “
mike in toronto
Was it the club that challenged Nevin??
awe naw
Brilliant. HH
starry …. that would be personal to the player, not the club …. but, it shows what can be done if a party is in the right and has the cojones ….
Just logged in again to see an advert for poppies. Deary me, time flies…November 2016 already. Guess we should have another poppy debate…
Alasdair MacLean
I totally agree about John Collins, Ronny was from left field but I wouldn’t let Collins into Celtic Park unless he bought a ticket…..just my opinion
Just read Twitter FAC saying 4 young people with no previous convictions arrested 4 days before Christmas for singing a song last February.
eddieinkirkmichael on 22nd December 2015 5:07 pm
See that really winds me up. Regardless of whatever they’re accused of why now 10 months later? Surely it could have waited until the New Year.
Poppies are easier to ignore than that cougar site…
Auldheid on 22nd December 2015 4:03 pm
He may not have been aware of the cheating when he said that Rangers is a fantastic club with a great history,” he said. “With the support that they have, they will come back.
However, unless he came from Mars, he must have been aware of a major part of that history that debarred him from playing for them and he must also have been well aware of the blasphemous knuckle draggers that support them.
quonno
plus there are his comments from last year …
“Maybe it is going to be 10 years but I think it is inevitable. Rangers and Celtic are among the top 10 biggest teams in Britain, and among the biggest teams in the world, and they should be competing at the highest level.”
I happened to tune into last night’s clash between Arsenal and Man City and I was astonished to hear the commentator tell us that Man City had not scored a goal away from home in over three months before last night. and this is a team that has cost a billion sterling to assemble according to pundit and Daily Star columnist, Eamonn Dunphy. Sure enough the Arsenal goalie had only two direct shots to deal with during the whole match and their neighbors across the city are not much better either despite an enormous spend on players.
First post since the game on Saturday.
As someone was has supported Ronny over recent months i have to say that Saturday was among the most pathetic i have seen. First and foremost the attitude of the players was poor from the get go. Far too many were not at it. What was most annoying was that i had no confidence in us turning it around when we went 2-1 down. It really was hideous to watch. I cannot remember the last time we were banging down the door in search of a late goal. That is unacceptable.
In theory you could put it down to one of those days but the problem is much bigger. When a team as poor as Motherwell are comfortably able to see out the match you know you have major issues.