3-4 wins at Tynecastle are the stuff of legends, games when champions show their credentials. The excitement, however, took second place to our inaugural appearance in domestic football with a Video Assistant Referee.
After taking an early lead, Celtic lost their way in the first half as Hearts pushed for an equaliser. A minute before the break Cammy Devlin knocked the ball forward an instant before Cameron Carter-Vickers made contact with the Hearts player’s foot. Referee Nick Walsh missed the contact, which was clear on first viewing of the replay, but the VAR seemed caught in the headlights and took several minutes to advise the ref to take a look at the video monitor.
It was all downhill from there. Within seconds, James Forrest drove inside the Hearts box but was stopped in his path when Michael Smith’s extended arm stopped the ball inside the box. This was the classic scenario VAR was supposed to address, a stonewaller by any measure, but fresh from his panic a few moments earlier, the VAR declined to intervene.
Anthony Ralston then scored an excellent headed goal but before the ball crossed the line, Nick Walsh blew for an apparent infringement. That early whistle meant VAR was unable to act. It is beyond doubt the referee made a mistake in blowing early, for my take, the goal should have stood.
Now we get to the bizarre episode. At both Hearts penalties, Hearts and Celtic players encroached into the box before the kick was taken. At the first, the goal stood, at the second, Joe Hart saved and Hearts scored an offside goal in the follow up.
The second penalty was retaken in line with the rules (a retake is the correct decision if players from both sides encroach). The fist penalty, which results in a Hearts goal, was allowed to stand by the same VAR. Either both should have been retaken, or as neither affected the outcome, both should have been allowed to stand.
Late in the game, Liel Abada scored what looked to be a good goal, but the assistant referee flagged for offside, confirmed by VAR. I am not convinced, and broadcaster Sky did viewers a disservice by declining to apply the cross-field lines they used for other decisions during the game.
It was an incompetent start with the new technology that did not reflect well on the SFA or referees.
I don’t want to put ideas in your head, so fee free to choose any one of the 5 million Slovaks, but which of them does Reo Hatate most remind you of?
338 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
- 6
- 7
- 8
- 9
- »
CONEYBHOY:
Good memory about Paulo; the gist of which I’d missed:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/di-canio-says-referees-have-anti-celtic-bias-1.116126
HH
An Dun. 12.32
Very much so. No need for public statements or press conferences. Get on the phone and tell Crawford we want to see the VAR analysis.
#######
Spot on , to go unchallenged by our club will only lead to more of the same from the cheats . The fans have got to see what the cheat behind the var screen sees , otherwise like Saturday a bigot ref is calling whatever way he wants . Call it out or it’s open goal on Celtic .
Have the SFA bought some sort of cheap, reduced-to-clear, version of VAR Lite ?
Marginal offside decisions should always be shown with the lines drawn, is that not a VAR fundamental.
Predictably, Keith Jackson got his retaliation in early, accusing (but not mentioning names) Hartson and Sutton of irresponsible rabble rousing. H & S were only stating the truth, Celtic had to defeat 11 Hearts players plus Walsh and McLean. An inconvenient truth, but the truth all the same. Significantly, Neilson couldn’t find his usual we-were-robbed excuse, as he knew fine well that his team were not on the receiving end of any poor decisions.
And still our board remain silent.
When Celtic gradually extend the lead at the top of the table, removing all possibility of an Ibrox league title, we will then be the beneficiary of all sorts of VAR decisions. That how things are evened out in this country, when it no longer matters.
An Dun. 12.32
No need for public statements or press conferences. Get on the phone and tell Crawford we want to see the VAR analysis.
——-
Yip.
Or, if one is feeling impish.
Draft an email to Crawford Allen requesting above.
Draft a tweet ….
“Following the fallout from VAR at Tynecastle (seen worldwide) CFC has made a request to the SFA Head of Referees to view the VAR analysis. Regrettably we have received NO response”
Send the first.
Wait ten minutes.
Publish the second.
BACK TO BASICS – GLASS HALF FULL on 24TH OCTOBER 2022 1:21 PM
Was that from BBC Scotland or BBC Ukraine?
Certainly seemed like the latter.
Good afternoon all from Shawlands.
I suspect that McLean knew that Abadas goal was onside and is trying to cover up his cheating. If it becomes public he’s a goner. Which would be nice.
If it is of any use, I support those calling for the Club to contact thon Crawford Allen for his comments on the use of VAR at Tynecastle on Saturday. He has previous about commentating on us. He set the precedent himself.
It wasn’t teething problems, as BBC Scotland tried to suggest this morning. Nor should we not be complaining, because Motherwell too were denied a penalty, as Tom English seemed to suggest in mitigation.
Try and nip the cheating in the bud. Speak out Celtic.
By the way, I still think that the use of VAR at Anthony Ralston’s “goal” was simply wrong, as Walsh had whistled before Ralston headed the ball. He couldn’t have given the goal. So why consult VAR?
Number of Scottish Premiership games each top flight club has played since they last had a penalty.
0 – Hearts
2 – Rangers
3 – Aberdeen
3 – Dundee Utd
3 – Livingston
4 – Hibernian
5 – Motherwell
6 – St Johnstone
8 – St Mirren
12 – Kilmarnock
16 – Celtic
17 – Ross County
Every pen in 2021-22 was to draw level or take lead.
Roofe vs St Johnstone: losing 1-0
Roofe vs St Mirren: losing 1-0
Tavernier vs Aberdeen: losing 2-1
Roofe vs Hibs: drawing 0-0
Tavernier vs Dundee Utd: drawing 0-0
Tavernier vs Hibs: drawing 0-0
Tavernier vs Dundee: losing 1-0
————————-
Celtic’s 7 pens in 2021-22
Edouard vs Dundee: winning 5-0
Juranovic vs St Johnstone: winning 1-0
Giakoumakis vs Livingston: drawing 0-0
Juranovic vs Hibs: winning 1-0
McGregor vs Livingston: drawing 0-0
Giakoumakis vs: R.County winning 3-0
Juranovic vs St Johnstone: winning 3-0
PAUL67
The goal from Joe Hart’s penalty save was NOT offside. The scorer was behind the ball when Shankland touched the rebound into his path. The referee was correct in ordering a retake because the Hearts player who encroached was the player who netted from the rebound, so a retake was the correct decision.
Ordering a retake for the second penalty does not mean the first penalty should have been retaken. Encroachment is normally acted upon only where the encroacher has taken advantage of it, eg by netting the rebound if it comes back off the keeper or the woodwork.
ERNIE LYNCH
You don’t know what a rotten burgh is do you?
The immediate and unintended consequence of VAR has highlighted the immutable truth of refereeing in Scotland: when refereeing is a matter of opinion and it comes to Celtic, no matter how obvious referees will not see the decision favour Celtic.
Ange has said a few times that he doesn’t want any distractions from playing football. He might have changed his mind after Saturday but he’s made it clear he doesn’t want the players to be thinking about anything other than winning football matches.
Public statements lead to a public row that we’ll never win. It hands the Huns a ready made distraction from the mess they’re in and gives them something to unite behind.
The last time we did it we had cast iron proof of cheating and we got punished with honest mistakes for the rest of the season and it cost us the league.
The same thing would happen again, 100%
A goal may be scored directly from a penalty kick.
1. Procedure
The ball must be stationary on the penalty mark and the goalposts, crossbar and goal net must not be moving.
The player taking the penalty kick must be clearly identified.
The defending goalkeeper must remain on the goal line, facing the kicker, between the goalposts, without touching the goalposts, crossbar or goal net, until the ball has been kicked.
The players other than the kicker and goalkeeper must be:
at least 9.15 m (10 yds) from the penalty mark
behind the penalty mark
inside the field of play
outside the penalty area
After the players have taken positions in accordance with this Law, the referee signals for the penalty kick to be taken.
The player taking the penalty kick must kick the ball forward; backheeling is permitted provided the ball moves forward.
When the ball is kicked, the defending goalkeeper must have at least part of one foot touching, in line with, or behind, the goal line.
The ball is in play when it is kicked and clearly moves.
The kicker must not play the ball again until it has touched another player.
The penalty kick is completed when the ball stops moving, goes out of play or the referee stops play for any offence.
Additional time is allowed for a penalty kick to be taken and completed at the end of each half of the match or extra time. When additional time is allowed, the penalty kick is completed when, after the kick has been taken, the ball stops moving, goes out of play, is played by any player (including the kicker) other than the defending goalkeeper, or the referee stops play for an offence by the kicker or the kicker’s team. If a defending team player (including the goalkeeper) commits an offence and the penalty is missed/saved, the penalty is retaken.
Summary table
USEFUL RESOURCES
Sad to say, but I think the abuse of VAR as we witnessed it on Saturday simply proves Ernie Lynch is correct. Scotland’s shame isn’t simply 1 football club, although that club exploits it. It is something that Scotland’s establishment (apart from the Church of Scotland) has failed to accept and address. It has a long anti-Irish, anti-Catholic history, which finds its current focus in Celtic.
Time to bin var
Zombies helping Huns legitimise cheating
McLean should be nowhere near Scottish football. An incompetent zombie.
The minute the club start making statements about refereeing, the refs become the victims. Some lunatic, real or imagined, will send a death threat and it’s instantly our fault, and we lose sight of the original issue.
There was a phone in on daytime bbc radio 5 after Dougie Dougie gate, when referee Craig Thomson was on criticizing Celtic for calling the referees integrity into question. I was on straight after and tried to point out to him that it was only because they’d been caught cheating that they’d been called out, but he’d gone by then. I made the point but it made no difference to the debate
Isn’t it astonishing how ERNIE LYNCH manages to turn virtually every topic or problem raised in CQN into an anti-Scottish trope?
Could someone on CQN other than Ernie please explain to me how on earth the above can be described as an ad hominem abuse?
The only var mistake at Tynecastle was the denial of a Celtic penalty for hand-ball.
Ralston’s goal was disallowed by the referee for a foul by Giakoumakis.
Both the above are subjective.
Also, Abada WAS offside for his goal. The Cinch YouTube highlights show the parallel lines and he was off about 6 inches.
Tom
Why should you care what EL thinks about you and your posts?
Pack it in mate, you will lead a happier life by doing so
Tom
Here’s the definition
Attacking a person’s character or motivations rather than a position or argument.
Appealing to the emotions rather than to logic or reason.
Celtic v St Johnstone, Christmas Eve,now 12.30 ko
Tom
In my opinion the ref should have let play continue at the Ralston goal and then let Var be the judge.
This is what would normally happen in England.
Seeing you try to rebut an argument is like watching a clown in a minefield.
—
has such an event ever taken place for this simile to be meaningful?
Celtic’s very first domestic VAR game where Steven McLean and Nick Walsh trashed technological ‘ advances ‘ in a blatant abusive refusal to review a clear handball. Mystery offsides, non replays and flagrant refusal to review.
Celtic supporters witnessed regular abject bias last week, with the same referee this time working from home ? with VAR adding a new layer of Hampden chicanery Celtic were robbed in Edinburgh daylight.
Most supporters saw a dragon coming but didn’t think it would be breathing fire in such a blatant fashion in game one. “ Taking it on the chin “ belongs to a bygone age, before the game ‘ evolved ‘ and VAR can only be used properly with competent unbiased people.
Steven McLean was hand picked for previous, the fact Celtic won is irrelevant the VAR fiasco is here to stay and teething troubles will be used to deflect Timmy concerns, in the same old way that prompted ‘ you can’t chop them all off ‘ nonsense.
Celtic must at last speak out the litany of VAR and other refereeing ‘mistakes’ yesterday must be called out not laughed off.
Maybe it doesn’t suit the narrative?
did EL’s post that i quoted just get deleted?
surely thats harsh
LETS ALL DO THE HUDDLE on 24TH OCTOBER 2022 3:47 PM
Well the dock is going to be pretty crowded if such a charge has any merit.
MODERATOR1888
Surely if I am accused of something I disagree with, I am entitled to refute it.
Why do you care if I counter another poster’s accusation? It’s not your remit to tell posters not to question another poster’s comment unless it is abusive.
Tom
You are right, carry on!!
GENE
Tom
In my opinion the ref should have let play continue at the Ralston goal and then let Var be the judge.
I agree.
Remember the old joke about how the Stasi used to go around in threes, because they needed one to do the reading and writing, one to do the counting and the third to keep an eye on the two intellectuals?
I suppose in this dark country with a cold heart is should surprise no one that a moderator distinguishes himself by his dourness.
No.
VAR was not at fault for ref ruling out a good goal.
VAR should have saw celtic awarded a pen, it was very clear and obvious.
Both were easy decisions to make that is the annoying thing.
Regard 1st pen, I am not sure it was clear or obvious. Yes the hearts player gets the ball first, but he is studs up and straight legged, hitting CCV’s foot with his sole, anywhere else on the pitch it is dangerous play. I can see merits in giving pen but contact taking place in the box does not automatically mean pen. That was far less obvious than the above two incidents.
I hope that VAR will over time be used to create more clarity despite the weekend. There is only so long you can say you need to get used to the new system I.e. benefit of doubt ralstons goal being chopped off.
Also unlike the refs on the pitch, the refs in the room cant exactly use issues seeing things in real time and greater scrutiny of decisions. If refs can’t do it in a room with instant replays they certainly should not be referring a game on the pitch.
HH
BOURNESOUPRECIPE on 24TH OCTOBER 2022 3:48 PM
What positive change would speaking out publicly bring?
The narrative, among the rest of Scottish football is that we get the decisions and that we’re paranoid. It’s the basis of every discussion about referees. It’s how any public argument about referees will always be framed.
As I said last night, in real time I thought their first penalty was justified. However var reveals an outstretched leg with full studs showing and no chance of hitting the ball.
If the goalie was near it his head would have been taken off, think Roofe in the EL last season.
Afternoon all
Saturday is over and done with and seems to me that the individual incidents should be left where they are.
I do though agree with the introduction of technology to aid referees but have always thought it should only be to decide matters of fact- ball in or out of play for example- or where the ref decides to take a look at something he or she had no view of. Stopping to review something that the ref has already made a call on- even if many think the ref is wrong- seems an unnecessary delay and instead of removing controversy such reviews make incidents bigger than they are.
Bognorbhoy’s post about penalties awarded is quite interesting and it is disappointing to note that the two penalties we missed were the ones in which the game is level. I know Rangers do miss penalties that matter- one in a League Cup final three years ago springs to mind- but my impression is that we have had an unfortunate knack of missing the kicks we have been awarded when either losing or drawing for quite a while now- my memory is surely playing tricks on me but we have not had a guaranteed scorer of match turning penalties since Tommy Gemmell ( who actually missed a fair few when we were winning) but I wonder if there is anybody with the patience to look through the records to see what our record is going back even a decade of penalties awarded and scored/missed and at what stage of the game.
Jimbo