There is a bit of irony with Celtic so bereft of creativity at the moment, having Marian Shved and Ryan Christie both at Lennoxtown but unable to play. Shved, 21, will be eligible to make his Celtic debut next season. It did not work out for him as a teenager at Sevilla, but he has been a player of promise since his school days.
Ryan Christie looked like he would never make his Celtic breakthrough, but a series of injuries presented him with an opportunity at the League Cup semi-final against Hearts at Murrayfield, which he transformed from a taut occasion into a comfortable win.
Hearts, who we play on the final league game and in the Scottish Cup Final, are going through a torrid run of form, but their task at Hampden will be to block and frustrate the champions. An infusion of creativity from somewhere will be required.
Many thanks to those who participated in the auction for tickets for Sunday’s game, the winner paid £960 to the Celtic FC Foundation, a magnificent total.
258 Comments- Pages:
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POR CIERTO:
Agreed. It’s a singularly bad game to play that kid in. He’ll get booted from end of the park to the other, and although some think that’s a good learning experience for a player – only in the UK man, oh man – there will be a lot of fans who will conclude that he lacks the physicality to “make it”.
I understand why some think this is a good time but I’d rather watch him get the chance in pre-season than in a game where we’ll get kicked off the pitch.
Timaloy
Good point. I’m torn and I recognise there is a bit of bias and oversimplification at play in my thinking. I don’t see it as extremes – modern man v dinosaur – but I’d prefer a more experienced person (at the top level) at the helm than Neil as a first choice.
Of course I’m accepting I haven’t a clue who that is (but I never thought we’d get BR) and that without results early next season anyway we will all reach for a new bias that we got the wrong man in, blah blah blah.
I do agree that villifying Neil to further the argument against him is out of order. He deserves our gratitude and respect for what he has put himself through and the job he’s finishing this season.
When it comes to Celtic I’m deeply unsentimantal in that regard – I want the best available going forward.
JAMES FORREST on 16TH MAY 2019 11:43 AM
I don’t have an issue with people looking elsewhere for their preferred candidate. My issue is that we generally don’t know who would be willing to take it. There are some who have reportedly shown interest like Billic, Carvahal & Moyes but they don’t fit the profile that some fans want.
When I looked at Lennon’s comments on the official Celtic twitter the responses were all negative and most referenced Rafa Benitez!
My fear is, a Lennon appointment will lead to increased negativity between the board, the manager and fans. I don’t really blame Neil Lennon for that but I believe it could happen as soon as things get tough.
“Cheaper option”
“Lack of imagination”
“Board stooge”
“We’ve went from ex-Liverpool boss to a guy sacked from Hibs”
BIG WAVY on 16TH MAY 2019 12:03 PM
When it comes to Celtic I’m deeply unsentimantal in that regard – I want the best available going forward.
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Absolutely.
The club could benefit from having a director of football involved who has worked at a top club and could consult with Lennon on such things. The club tried to bring somebody in like that during NL’s first reign.
Ajax and Bayern Munich tend to keep ex-players around the club in some sort of role. I’m sure there will also be a role for NL at Celtic in the same way there always was for Tommy Burns.
TIMALOY29:
First up mate, I understand why you feel the way you do.
But let’s start with two things. First, to appointment him WOULD be a lack of imagination, and the fact we’ve gone from an ex-Liverpool manager to a guy sacked from Hibs would be simply a statement of fact. He was sacked by Bolton as well. There is nothing in his background – save for his last spell at Celtic Park, and we should be examining that much more critically than we do – to justify his getting this.
But then, there was nothing whatsoever to justify his getting it last time … and he did.
In the ten or so years since you look for improvement. I don’t see that there’s been any, which to me is pretty abysmal. He’s not a modern manager, with a modern outlook.
I fear for more than just increased negativity towards the board … and they deserve some by the way, for the chronic underinvestment of the last few years. Yes, I do believe that as well. Last summer was a car-crash. It was disgraceful.
No, what I suspect is that Lennon would be starting out behind the curve. I won’t say a majority of fans no longer support his appointment, but it’s not a small minority who are against him either. I was never going to be convinced, and I’ll be upfront about that. As I’ve said, he could have won every game this season and then hit the ground running next and I still won’t be convinced because fundamentally it’s the wrong choice, but others might have been … and he’s lost a lot of them completely.
If he gets it now, he starts off with a section of the support who’ve already made up their minds against him. That’s not a great foundation in itself, but that some have vocally turned against him is worse by far. The board will not be the only people blamed for a bad appointment here, the manager himself will be seared by the experience of failure if it comes.
I’d rather not watch him become our Ally McCoist.
TIMALOY29 on 16TH MAY 2019 12:11 PM
JAMES FORREST on 16TH MAY 2019 11:43 AM
I don’t have an issue with people looking elsewhere for their preferred candidate. My issue is that we generally don’t know who would be willing to take it.
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‘Progressive European coach’ is my favourite.
Such as???
Rare that a name is ventured, but from then there are so many pitfalls…
Is he interested? [Tough one given that its not very appealing to begin pre season training in June for July CL qualifiers when you could be lying on a beach for another 6 weeks]
Does he speak English?
What’ll his release clause cost us (if applicable)?
Whats his experience of the game in Scotland?
Whats his experience of European football?
How many personnel does he plan to bring with him? …
Does his agreement depend on us agreeing contracts with them all?
Whats his salary/bonus expectations?
Whats his transfer budget expectations?
Whats his media style?
Is he planning to use us to boost his profile for the next role?
HH
Traditionalist, maybe an honest sell sword is whats needed after false prophets…..
TRADITIONALIST88:
On the day I’m paid to have that information to hand I’ll be happy to answer all those questions.
To be honest, if he was brought in and his intent was to hang around for a few years, raise his profile and then go, I’d be happy with that as long as our club kept on going down the progressive European path we’re on right now. But it’s useless asking fans those kind of questions … we’re not the ones paid to have answers.
And this board has had more than ten weeks to find those answers.
If we don’t already know them then there’s more wrong up there than just the sight of Lennon biting his nails in the dugout.
And by the way … “What’s his experience of the game in Scotland” isn’t a legitimate consideration.
You have a round ball, two goals at either end of the pitch, eleven players on your team and eleven trying to stop you scoring on the other team.
That’s football in Scotland, in England, and everywhere else.
This “he has to understand the game here” is the red herring to end them all, and rank nonsense.
Timaloy
That’s a really good point. One of the things that left us utterly exposed was BR tore our club infrastructure apart when he left, overnight. We can’t be that amateurish again.
A consistency, a philosophy (not entirely dictated by Peter Lawell) and infrastructure that remains relatively intact (we may need to negotiate around the edges of a coach and his ‘team’) is a must for me.
What’s Jock Brown up to these days? :)
BBC Scotlands main online news page, sports section has pictures of 4 managers. Only one of them is shown snarling- any guesses who the BBC would see this as suitible for?
@ TRADITIONALIST88 on 16TH MAY 2019 12:27 PM
It is entirely legitimate to say that Celtic should not hire Neil without offering an alternative.
In the same vein, you can criticise the manner in which Brexit has been handled without needing to offer an alternative plan.
We have a CEO on £2.5m a year (the average FTSE 100 CEO earns £3.93 million per year and those companies have revenue in the billions). I think we can have an expectation, given that we are a “well run club”, that our executives are out in the market looking for a equivalent (or as close as possible) level of manager to Brendan; we have, after all, just received £9m from Leicester for Brendan’s services.
JAMES FORREST on 16TH MAY 2019 12:19 PM
“I won’t say a majority of fans no longer support his appointment, but it’s not a small minority who are against him either.”
Whenever I have seen a poll it seems the majority are against it. That matches my experience when listening to fellow fans. You are right to suggest he will be starting with a lot to prove.
I think your point of looking for progress is probably the gist of it. Fans feel that Brendan Rodgers brought the club to a new level and they don’t want to see the club go backwards.
I’d point to the examples of Fabio Capello, Ottmar Hitzfeld, Jupp Heynckes and even Walter Smith. Sometimes there is no shame in going back to a previous coach if it’s the best that’s available. All of those examples returned to their club and steadied the ship.
I also think the way people talk about his stints at Bolton and Hibs is totally lacking context. At Bolton he inherited a club bottom of the league and on the brink financially. He kept them up against the odds but the financial problems behind the scenes made it harder. The manager is always the first to carry the can but the club now is relegated again and staff are being forced to go to food banks.
At Hibs he picked up a club in the championship, got them promoted and almost pipped Sevco to 3rd place in the SPFL. It didn’t go well this season and relationships with the players frayed but there is no doubt he left the new coach a good squad. His contribution to Hibs is absolutely a net positive.
JAMES FORREST on 16TH MAY 2019 12:32 PM
It was more to point out the difficulties in getting in to our Club what so many are demanding (without actually naming).
I think its fair enough to ask people who have been vociferously anti Lennon about alternatives. I know its the job of our board to get the best but at the end of the day our board are generally experts in financial matters, rather than football matters. They are watching the same things unfold we do.
I’m sure they had hundreds of application for the role, a fair proportion of which were thrown out immediately. How many applications do you think we received from managers in one of the top leagues? Not many, you wouldn’t have thought.
Its easy to say ‘go out and get’ us a progressive coach or a big name but the reality is when Rodgers got the job the alternative was Moyes. I’d just love to know where these progressive and successful European coaches are right now and what it’d take to get them in.
HH
To be clear, I don’t believe that NL should be appointed without the club trying to bring in other candidates.
We should be speaking to Billic and Moyes right now. They should be providing detailed plans regarding the next three seasons.
Training methods & transfer targets/policy should be included.
JAMES FORREST on 16TH MAY 2019 12:34 PM
An understanding of footballers in Scotland, their abilities and potential signings, would be quite useful.
HH
@ TIMALOY29 on 16TH MAY 2019 12:42 PM
“All of those examples returned to their club and steadied the ship.”
We have being enjoying unprecedented success, both on an off the pitch. Why are we looking at a manager to steady the ship? That was fine after TM, but not after Brendan.
Also, I think when people mention Bolton and Hibs they are not looking necessarily at his performance at those clubs, rather at the level of job Neil was able to get. He clearly was not appealing to the football market or else he surely would have been picked up by better clubs than a club in financial meltdown and a league 1 Scottish club. Neil clearly didn’t have very good options available if he was willing to take both those jobs.
Interesting take, Paul, but we shouldn’t be overly-reliant on individual skills for creativity. It can also come from a system. That, of course, requires good coaching. It could well be a game where an early goal could be the difference between a stroll and a grind.
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 16TH MAY 2019 12:41 PM
I think we can have an expectation, given that we are a “well run club”, that our executives are out in the market looking for a equivalent (or as close as possible) level of manager to Brendan
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Yes, and we’ve been looking for an equivalent (or as close as possible) to Henrik, Jinky, Dalglish and Van Dijk, but you need a lot to fall into place (like it did with Brendan Rodgers, who was unemployed) to secure what we consider a top level manager and bring him to Scotland.
I’m sure we will try, but I’m not sure its possible.
Demands are high, the league is small, the budget is modest compared to the big leagues.
As I say, open to suggestions.
HH
JAMES FORREST on 16TH MAY 2019 12:34 PM
This “he has to understand the game here” is the red herring to end them all, and rank nonsense.
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Who are you quoting there, by the way?!
HH
@ TRADITIONALIST88 on 16TH MAY 2019 12:52 PM
Just because we cannot get a manager of Brendan’s quality does it mean that we should settle for Neil. There are levels of quality inbetween. Just as selling VVD and replacing with Jack Hendry wouldn’t be acceptable.
The budget is modest, save for the CEO’s wage which is comparable top half of the EPL.
The suggestion point is moot, as per my previous post.
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 16TH MAY 2019 12:48 PM
@ TIMALOY29 on 16TH MAY 2019 12:42 PM
“We have being enjoying unprecedented success, both on an off the pitch. Why are we looking at a manager to steady the ship? That was fine after TM, but not after Brendan.”
Brendan Rodgers walked out on Celtic mid-season. That was the emergency and Lennon has already steadied the ship.
If there is a better Brendan Rodgers/Rafa Benitez style appointment then I’d say the board are in their rights to make it. But what if there isn’t one available?
People in the know say Rafa Benitez is a non-starter. Who’s the next best? Slaven Bilic? I fail to see the outstanding candidate.
Giving NL a 2 year deal is the right decision if there isn’t a better option. Stability is underrated.
Brendan Rodgers was sacked by Reading. Had a very short stint at Watford prior. It wasn’t until he had unprecedented success with Swansea that he had any sort of sway.
NL’s mistake was taking the Bolton job. It was a catastrophic mistake and he may pay for it for some time. It’s left a (in my opinion undeserved) stench around a promising young manager.
If Neil ever wants to make it in the EPL he has to make a name for himself with a championship team. That’s what BR had to do.
NL just chose the wrong one.
James Forrest – some very good points. It is nigh on impossible to view Neil from a coaching perspective only due to the unique background he has with us as a player, a fan and a coach as well as a terrorist target, a victim of street violence and a victim of fan violence. So many angles to consider when talking about him as our future manager and so, so much emotion.
Neil would give his all to helping us achieve 10IAR but that doesn’t mean he is the best manager we can get and, to that end, the Board have a responsibility to go out and find the very best they possibly can.
Our board have done that twice in my memory – MoN and BR. Here’s hoping they get it right a third time.
TRADITIONALIST88:
I’ll say it again, it’s not our job to come up with alternatives, but in point of fact many of us have do so again and again and again, and not the flight of fancy alternatives like Mourinho either.
Some of them are very credible names. There ARE credible names out there who’d do it.
The real question is, how far is the board willing to push out the boat? How ambitious are they? How good is their sales pitch? What kind of package are they prepared to offer?
The guy who is about to take the Scotland job is a more credible candidate in the eyes of many of our fans. You may not agree, but they are entitled to that view and his record over the past couple of years has been hugely impressive. He would have been a good bet for some.
Don’t put the onus on us. It is manifestly obvious that there are better candidates than a guy sacked by Bolton and who had Hibs 8th in the league. (And what happened there? I ask again because the question is important and the answer might be even more so.)
Manifestly obvious. But it’s not down to us to go and hire that person. If the people who’s job it is come back and say Lennon is the best they could get I will flatly refuse to believe that or accept it. It will be a lie. There is no other word for it. In expecting us to believe it they will be calling us mugs.
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 16TH MAY 2019 1:03 PM
@ TRADITIONALIST88 on 16TH MAY 2019 12:52 PM
Just because we cannot get a manager of Brendan’s quality does it mean that we should settle for Neil. There are levels of quality inbetween. Just as selling VVD and replacing with Jack Hendry wouldn’t be acceptable.
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Comparing Neil Lennon to Jack Hendry is downright disrespectful.
James Forrest on 16th May 2019 12:34 pm
And by the way … “What’s his experience of the game in Scotland” isn’t a legitimate consideration.
——–
That one really winds me up. Martin O’Neill and Brendan Rodgers seemed to cope okay!
Or do we go for Martin Canning or Jim McIntyre? Both available!
Stevie Clarke 2 game touchline ban,presumably to include his first game as Scotland manager….
JAMES FORREST on 16TH MAY 2019 1:06 PM
The guy who is about to take the Scotland job is a more credible candidate in the eyes of many of our fans.
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Little problem there is that he doesn’t need or want our job. His wish is to go back to England with his family and the Scotland job is the next best thing as he can base himself down there for long spells watching players etc.
Its not your job to suggest alternatives, but given how vociferous some are being, you’d think they might be able to arm themselves with at least one name that would be viable. Lots of information available at the click of a button to anyone who wishes to do a bit of digging to support their assertions.
The problem is most know its very tough to get anyone from a big league and many pinned their hopes on Marco Rose, who took another job..in a big league.
Phillip Cocu was mentioned yesterday, good shout. But see list of questions above.
A lot has to fall into place.
HH
Honestly thought that the title of this leader was a preface to an article on the plethora of Scott Allen types that we’ve stockpiled at some cost, but with no real practical purpose, in recent years.
HH jg
@ TIMALOY29 on 16TH MAY 2019 1:04 PM
“If there is a better Brendan Rodgers/Rafa Benitez style appointment then I’d say the board are in their rights to make it. But what if there isn’t one available?”
It’s about looking at this objectively.
We are a club with a turnover in the top 30-50 in Europe. We pay our CEO £2.5M. We paid Brendan about the same. We have participated in Europe past Christmas in the last 2 seasons and have participated in the CL in 2 of the last 3 seasons. Our last manager was poached for £9m – which must be a record for a British club and, more generally, one of the highest compensation fees ever paid for a manager.
However, despite all this, the best we can get (our board is great at searching for players/managers but just not being able to find them or get the deal done; no such issue in getting rid of players) is a manager recently fired from Hibs in Scotland?
That sounds a bit suspect to me. If that is the best we can do given the time we have had to search Europe (4 months), then we are either incompetent or not seriously seeking to push on as a club.
The complete mess of a summer transfer window gives me an indication of the competence in the boardroom at CP.
On the potential Dembele debut, the boy should be nowhere near the first team. He is just a wee laddie, a school boy who has the build of a 12-year-old rather than a 16-year-old. He did very little in the two youth cup finals to suggest he is ready for the step up to the first team. MJ and Henderson looked ready, that was about it.
GLASSTWOTHIRDSFULL on 16TH MAY 2019 1:12 PM
James Forrest on 16th May 2019 12:34 pm
And by the way … “What’s his experience of the game in Scotland” isn’t a legitimate consideration.
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That one really winds me up. Martin O’Neill and Brendan Rodgers seemed to cope okay!
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Its a legitimate question, doesn’t mean its a deal breaker in any situation.
Some people really don’t understand the interview process.
Imagine asking a potential manager of their knowledge about footballers in Scotland!
Of course we would also need to know their knowledge of the football industry in Scotland and how much they would need to be brought up to speed on administrative issues/media etc if they were to be taken on.
HH
I simply cannot envisage individuals such as Mourinho or Benitez being able to work harmony with our CEO, due to the signing policy in place at the club.
The recruitment of Brendan Rodgers was a one off, and we were blessed to have a manager of his stature for almost 3 years.
Jose in particular is a cheque book manager if ever there was one.
Develop academy/reserve team players, sign a host of unknown quantities from around the world with a view to selling them on at a profit?
That’s isn’t what Rafa Benitez is about either.
Perhaps the game plan is being ditched, and the board is going to break the bank for the 9,10, 11 etcetera – I wouldn’t be getting my hopes up though.
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 16TH MAY 2019 1:20 PM
Referring to somebody who previously did the job successfully as a “manager recently fired from Hibs” doesn’t seem objective to me.
You have to convince somebody to come compete in the Scottish League. 3 times a year against St Mirren, Hamilton Accies, Ross County, Motherwell etc.
We could qualify for the CL the next 3 years and make a bunch of money. That doesn’t materially change where we play.
We’ve already covered how little reputation NL had after a successful stint as a Celtic manager. Do you think BR’s reputation is built on his time at Celtic? More so Swansea and Liverpool in my opinion.
David Wagner of Huddersfield was on a better salary than Brendan Rodgers.
Furthermore I think that the Celtic job is too big for the like of Steve Clarke or Michael O’Neill, no disrespect intended.
It’s entirely different to managing a Kilmarnock or a 6 county select.
This rubbish about Lenny only managing 8th place in league with Hibs, where does that come from? You would be entitled to say we lost 1-0 to Inter in Lisbon if you want to use that rational. Lenny finished higher in the league last yr than Steve Clarke has managed yet James Forrest would have us believe he’s a better choice.
I would rather we appoint a ‘name’, if we don’t then Lenny will probably be the man. I don’t see a problem with this as we already have a squad that has 8, possibly, 9 trophies on the bounce. Whoever we have in place next yr will be facing a challenge from a team that has an ex under 18 coach at the helm. How many times have we read on The Celtic Blog that he will be gone by Xmas of next season? Yet now the same blogger appears to be wetting himself at the prospect of a team with Lenny in charge facing this nonentity.
Gimme strength ffs
@ TIMALOY29 on 16TH MAY 2019 1:34 PM
““manager recently fired from Hibs” doesn’t seem objective to me.”
He is. Are we in some Trumpian world where facts are debatable?
On salaries, not according to this: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/910809/Premier-League-manager-wages-salary-2017-2018-sportgalleries
Plus, the EPL is not represented of European football. There are 20 EPL teams. It’s amazing on Celtic blogs how every single player and manager in the world is due to be signed by someone in the EPL.
Anyway, you are correct. No one wants to come to Scotland. Neil is the best we can do. Let’s just keep the £50m in the bank as well and pay our CEO £2.5m as that is the type of top dollar required to run a club in a back water such as ours.
@ EDDIEINKIRKMICHAEL on 16TH MAY 2019 1:45 PM
Steve Clarke has a better resume than Lenny. He took West Brom to 8th in the EPL (their highest since 1981) and reached an FA cup semi final with Reading (their first for 88 years). He was understudy to Mourinho during 04-08 when he was considered one of, if not, the best manager in world. He has also had a stint as an assistant at Liverpool. So he has handled pressure at big clubs.
When he joined Kilmarnock last year they were in 11th place after 12 games; Hibs were 3rd. By the end of the season they were 7 points behind Hibs in 5th. Kilmarnock are going for 3rd this year.
This isn’t to denigrate Neil. I just think Clarke is a better manager and I think that is backed up by his CV.