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It is a male problem, strict liability will not fix it and video surveillance is coming

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After a series of incidents when the country’s lowlifes threw objects at footballers (at least one was a Celtic fan) the media have presented you with a simple solution: strict liability.  Strict liability punishes the club whenever its supporters misbehave.  On occasion, the home club is punished, even when away fans misbehave, and on fewer occasions, the home club is punished when a completely unconnected ‘fan’ transgresses, as happened to Rangers during a European tie decades ago, when an apparent Celtic fan affixed himself to a post like a Leigh Griffiths scarf.

Coins and bottles being thrown is a depressing reality.  As a consequence, anyone with half a brain will want action taken, but I have a problem with strict liability – it is action, for actions sake.  It does not work.

Uefa impose strict liability on clubs in European competition.  Celtic have routinely been fined hundreds of thousands of euros, without any inhibition on offending rates.  No one seriously believes that would change with fines in domestic football.

Is anyone suggesting the outcome of a league title should be determined by points deducted because an idiot threw a coin?  And if so, who would be the arbitrator of such a decision?  How would you stop a Celtic fan again going to Ibrox to cause problems?  You would incentivise this behaviour, which is lunacy of the highest order.

Scottish football resists strict liability because, like most simple solutions to complex problems, it does not work anywhere it is practiced.

We know lots about this behaviour.  Many women and girls attend Scottish football, but throwing dangerous objects is a male-only practice.  It is a manifestation of male violence, a consequence of many complex issues.

For an instant, the thrower of a coin is the alpha male, albeit a very pathetic one, but he gets a ‘hit’.  If his act generates significant media coverage, the instant can become a week.  If his club is fined, or the reputation of his fellow fans is tarnished, he does not care.  He is a free rider.

Football-attending nutcases who are caught are all repentant in the dock, but object throwers are seldom caught, which is why we have a problem.  It is a criminal act without personal consequences.  All measures which do not connect the offender with the consequences will fail.  The logical outcome to all of this will be greater video surveillance – this is what the police will suggest.

The real question is, what is society’s appetite for addressing indiscriminate male violence?  If we want to outsource the problem to football clubs, I suggest its’ not very great.

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  1. Salzburg under Marco Rose were 2 up with ten minutes to go against Red Star Belgrade instead of being pragmatic and seeing the game out they kept going forward and lost 2 goals and a place in the Champions league group stages.I remember at the time thinking this is really naïve of the manager and if I was a Salzburg supporter I would have been raging at him.Be careful what you wish for.

     

     

    Charlie Poole

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL4J-XIAKvw&list=RDrL4J-XIAKvw&start_radio=1

  2. GlassTwoThirdsFull on

    Not the best performance, but the conditions weren’t great and the win was the main thing.

     

    Thought the front four were bunched too close together at times. May have been more of a personnel issue. Be good to have at least one of Callum/Ryan/Tom back soon, although I hope Callum and Ryan aren’t back before the Scotland games.

     

    Agree about the strict liability, Paul. You’re not going to stop bad behaviour by punishing people who DON’T do it. Completely illogical.

     

    Better surveillance and stronger sanctions against the perpetrators.

  3. mike in toronto on

    fan violence is a bit like a bad cough. If it happens once, you go to the doc, and get antibiotics to clear it up. But if it keeps happening, a different approach – one which address the root cause – is needed.

  4. Don’t know where i read it, but I did read somewhere that Celtic fans said they had more respect for Seethin Gee,than Brendan , WTF

     

    here’s Feelgood to cheer you up, brillliant band live

     

     

    KINGLuBO

  5. bada bing

     

     

    cant see marco rose at celtic, i would think lenny for sure if he wins the league.

     

     

    lenny is in pl and the boards price range.

  6. South Of Tunis on

    MARCO ROSE

     

     

    Remember watching both legs of last seasons Europa League Tie – Salzburg v Lazio . Lazio won 4 -2 in Roma and Salzburg won 4-1 in Salzburg .. Lazio scored first in Salzburg and then missed a series of chances to put the tie to bed . That done , they folded and gifted Salzburg 3 goals in 4 minutes . . In both games Salzburg attacked / attacked and attacked. .

     

     

    Remember watching both legs of last seasons – Salzburg -Marsiglia Europa League Tie . Marsiglia won 2-0 in Marsiglia and Salzburg won 2-1 in Salzburg . In both legs Salzburg attacked ,attacked and attacked . Don’t think Marco Rose is much interested in defending .

  7. I certainly don’t know any Celtic fans who respect seethin g..

     

    Wishful thinking by mssm .

  8. Back to Basics - Glass Half Full on

    Hi Paul67 – what is the best email address to contact you?

     

     

    Hail hail

  9. 🏍

     

     

    I hope you and Canman are right but I fear you may not be.

     

     

    If they can fabricate an ‘old firm shame game’ and summit out of el hadj diouf’s and mccoist’s solo antics on the night. Then bring in OBAF and FOCUS on the back of it, as part of an ‘evening up’ process, then they can and quite possibly will try to do so here.

     

     

    In any case, Celtic’s domestic dominance is often posited as being bad for the game.

     

     

    An assault by the orange lodge on a Catholic Church, its clergyman and elderly members of the congregation prompted bbc and evening times ‘debates’ on whether Catholic schools were to blame for sectaririanism ffs.

     

     

    HH brother.

     

     

    🍀🍀jg

  10. SOUTH OF TUNIS

     

    I like an attacking approach.

     

    Better than having a massive percentage advantage and a rare shot.

     

    Thought Salzburg looked very disciplined in their system in both games against us.

     

    He is a young coach but does seem to have the ability to implement a system properly.

     

    Having a team playing as a complete 10 man outfield unit seems beyond most modern coaches ability.

  11. Until we played Salzburg, how many on here had heard of Marco Rose.?

     

     

    Having checked his managerial stats I think he would be classed as another project coming to Scotland

     

     

    HH.

  12. glendalystonsils on

    FAN-A-TIC on 4TH MARCH 2019 2:54 PM

     

    I certainly don’t know any Celtic fans who respect seethin g..

     

     

     

     

    Wishful thinking by mssm .

     

     

    The difference as I see it is this;

     

    The vast majority of Celtic fans had no respect for seethy before Rodgers left and still have no respect for him now.

     

    The vast majority of Celtic fans had respect for Rodgers while he was here but have no respect for him now.

  13. glendalystonsils on

    If strict liability were to be brought in , what are the chances of it being applied fairly and even handedly?

     

     

    No , me neither.

     

     

    It could even be used as a weapon against one particular team (and I don’t mean Sevco).

  14. FAT @ 12.53

     

     

    Quality and performance of the current stewards …

     

     

    Start at totally useless and move onto wage thiefs.

     

     

    We had the shambles at CP with the onfield injury and their shambolic Keystone Cops response.

     

     

    Now we have the “Thirty” standing around chatting as the bottle flys over.

     

     

    Couldnt keep weans out a close never mind a Persian army out of Greece.

     

     

    Do theyneed to meet any known fitness standard apart from breathing and walking on two legs?

     

     

    Boot up the erse required.

  15. hi bhoys maybe old news, but just read a story about alex neil being linked with the managers job,, bada id love neil and marco rose as joint managers.hh.

  16. [email protected]

     

    I think you will find many had heard of him due to Salzburg reaching the semi final of Europa cup and narrowly losing out to Marseille.

     

    He has been touted as one of the best young coaching prospects in European football.

  17. BADA BING

     

    That was truly frightening.

     

    He and his club should feel the full wrath of the footballing authorities.

     

    Both should be expelled.

  18. SFTB

     

     

    Many thanks for that link to Tom Devine. I wouldn’t have wanted to hand in a poorly-researched essay into him!

     

     

    HH jg

  19. mike in toronto on

    SoT

     

     

    I saw a bit of the Napoli Juve game yesterday …. while Italian football was always more skillful than british football, the cautious style often made it rather dull fare ..

     

     

    but yesterday’s game had a bit of everything … some very good skill, good goals, 2 red cards, a controversial penalty, and a missed penalty …

     

     

    speaking of misbehaving fans … this was taken from last season’s Napoli Juve game … nice to see a bit of fun and sportsmanship between fans…

     

     

    https://twitter.com/i/status/987682894687686656

  20. Silver City 1888 on

    “Sectarian” chants never stopped. Deaf ears have been turned to Rangers fans for decades, even been praised by Culture Secretaries. No way it will be applied fairly or evenly.

  21. BOURNESOUPRECIPE

     

    Come on an inflammatory statement like that made the hairs on the back of my wig stand up.

     

    #dodgysyrupsCSC

  22. SFTB Tom Devine talked absolute pish in that piece. He should now be known as Uncle Tom. It’s not an issue any more?

     

     

    Aye, tell us that again when the next anti-Catholic march goes by a Catholic Church.

     

     

    Tell Canon Tom it’s nit an issue when his July 7th started with abusive phone calls and ended giving a statement to the Police after he was assaulted.

     

     

    Makes my blood boil listening to it!

     

     

     

    KTF

  23. TD on Radio Scotland — a bit too happy clappy for my liking.

     

     

    Seems to be living in the Seville era past.

     

     

    Plus he gave the impression that life is just a bit of post doc analysis that the plebs dont really understand.

     

     

    Plus his analysis is backward looking.

     

    The present is Trump, austerity and Brexit.

     

    The future is isolation, insularity and folk like us.

     

     

    However he might not have all the analysis but he highlighted the GB political schizoid angle.

     

     

    They now punt ID politics for a its worth while complaining about the society they want to build / join / develop.

     

     

    They need to be very careful what they wish for — they might just get it.

  24. Rock Tree Bhoy on

    I think the SMSM will ramp up the ‘who’s going to be the new manager in the summer’ speculation in an attempt to destabilise the players and upset Neil. In fact it’s already started. There is not a lot we can do about that other than give the manager and the squad 100% backing. I’m sure we will. We all saw them noise up BR with there ‘have you hit a domestic glass ceiling Brendan?” type questions which clearly unsettled him, so they know it’s a proven winning tactic. They played their part in expediting BR’s Celtic exit, no doubt about that at all.

  25. I would keep Lenny on as Manager for the foreseeable future after all he has

     

    our Club @ heart our priority should be concentrating on going for ten-in-a-row

     

    simple as & lets face it European footy is a bonus for us because we are also

     

    facing clubs with bigger financial clout end of & we are not going to win any

     

    European trophy in the foreseeable future & it’s a distraction from our bread

     

    & butter matches which should not be allowed to become a hinderrence &

     

    distract us from making genuine history by overtaking nine-in-a-row after all

     

    European negative results don’t exactly do us any favours as regards to our

     

    normal League form & confidence after negative European results a few days

     

    before League matches now does it? No. So therefore for the time being we

     

    should be concentrating on the domestic front not on Europe nowadays as

     

    we are all aware footy is now one big financial business it’s not a fair Sport

     

    it’s a big financial business that’s for sure as for Mr Marco Rose @ Salzburg

     

    FC who play in the Austrian League & @ present are doing not bad in the

     

    Europa Cup with the same financial clout as we have goes to show that if

     

    you have a big & useful squad of players who can raise their match performance

     

    @ European level instead of turning up with a mindset that by performing

     

    in Scottish footy level that we can get positive results in Europe which equals

     

    no-can-do because the performance level in Europe has to be @ our best

     

    to get anything positive out of these types of matches or it’s a case of pissing

     

    in the wind with no positive end result to be had end of so realistically let’s

     

    just fully concentrate domestically on our bread & butter matches & look @

     

    European footy as a useful learning curve & building block nothing more nor

     

    nothing less hail-hail all & coybig ynwa :-) :-)

  26. Bhoyjoebelfast on

    Listened to Kaye Adams this morning.A call from Alan,in Australia,remembering supporting the Catholic team and him a Protestant.I believe he should have been told by KA that he was wrong by defining Celtic as the Catholic team.As I have stated before,as I stumble towards 70, it’s not who you are it’s what you are.

     

    BRINGBACKTHEKLAXONHORN.

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