After a series of incidents when the country’s lowlifes threw objects at footballers (at least one was a Celtic fan) the media have presented you with a simple solution: strict liability. Strict liability punishes the club whenever its supporters misbehave. On occasion, the home club is punished, even when away fans misbehave, and on fewer occasions, the home club is punished when a completely unconnected ‘fan’ transgresses, as happened to Rangers during a European tie decades ago, when an apparent Celtic fan affixed himself to a post like a Leigh Griffiths scarf.
Coins and bottles being thrown is a depressing reality. As a consequence, anyone with half a brain will want action taken, but I have a problem with strict liability – it is action, for actions sake. It does not work.
Uefa impose strict liability on clubs in European competition. Celtic have routinely been fined hundreds of thousands of euros, without any inhibition on offending rates. No one seriously believes that would change with fines in domestic football.
Is anyone suggesting the outcome of a league title should be determined by points deducted because an idiot threw a coin? And if so, who would be the arbitrator of such a decision? How would you stop a Celtic fan again going to Ibrox to cause problems? You would incentivise this behaviour, which is lunacy of the highest order.
Scottish football resists strict liability because, like most simple solutions to complex problems, it does not work anywhere it is practiced.
We know lots about this behaviour. Many women and girls attend Scottish football, but throwing dangerous objects is a male-only practice. It is a manifestation of male violence, a consequence of many complex issues.
For an instant, the thrower of a coin is the alpha male, albeit a very pathetic one, but he gets a ‘hit’. If his act generates significant media coverage, the instant can become a week. If his club is fined, or the reputation of his fellow fans is tarnished, he does not care. He is a free rider.
Football-attending nutcases who are caught are all repentant in the dock, but object throwers are seldom caught, which is why we have a problem. It is a criminal act without personal consequences. All measures which do not connect the offender with the consequences will fail. The logical outcome to all of this will be greater video surveillance – this is what the police will suggest.
The real question is, what is society’s appetite for addressing indiscriminate male violence? If we want to outsource the problem to football clubs, I suggest its’ not very great.
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I say it is a phishing email but it is so convincing my son is saying it’s real. I’ve only seen it on iPhone so haven’t checked the veracity of it, but there are a few immediate pointers.
It has the correct client reference, seat number, name.
So unless it IS real, data has been compromised.
Hearts 1 up
SS- Very true mate….
Scrub that. It’s real.
Son misread it as not getting our season ticket.
It actually says not getting a season renewal PACK. Instead renewal will be online.
The email from Celtic isn’t phishing just trying to save trees. I renew online every year and then get a big pack that I feck into the bin.
Moving with the times. I assume those that renew through the pack or at CP to pay through the credit option will continue to do so
!!BADA BING!! on 4TH MARCH 2019 7:13 PM
SS- i got it too,it says if you renewed last season online, they wont post out the written application pack.
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Thanks Bada.
I should know not to believe things until I see it with my own eyes.
Thistle look dire.
Greenpinata@5:50
I only scanned that article but I thought it was dreadful ( which is the reason I went from reading toscanning).
JJ
PS That is only a criticism of the article, not of you nor of your posting of it.
SS- GDPR rules broken?
In my sons defence, the wording is pretty rubbish.
It starts by saying
As we prepare to launch our 2019/20 Season Ticket campaign, we’d like to remind you that you *will not* receive a 2019/20 renewal pack for this seat:
It then lists Client Reference and seat information. Son read no further as the red mist had descended.
Firstly, the words “remind you” suggest that this has been communicated previously. No it hasn’t.
Secondly, why not start with…
Thank you for renewing your season ticket online this season. In order to reduce the amount of wasted paper, we will not send you a renewal pack and hope that you will renew online next season too.
My relationship with BR is summed up in this old romantic ditty from the 70’s
https://youtu.be/8t4eTddwvf4
!!BADA BING!! on 4TH MARCH 2019 7:26 PM
SS- GDPR rules broken?
——-
No, it’s legitimate. Just my son going in to panic mode.
Partick Thistle Nil FC
‘ When told Thistle striker Colin McGlashan didn’t know who he was after a head knock, Lambie famously replied: ‘Great. Tell him he’s Pele and get him back on’! ‘
John Lambie ?
CORKCELT on 4TH MARCH 2019 6:54 PM
Ard Macha, Thanks for keeping the flame lit. Having visited the H Blocks including the cell where Bobby died, I do find reading the diaries harrowing & upsetting yet it is important to keep the memories alive.
RTE are surprisingly running a documentary on Bobby Titled 66 days. I think it’s being shown this coming Thursday.
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I echo your sentiments my friend.
I watched the 66 days documentary on Netflix on Saturday night.
HH
Bada
GDPR doesnt cover that aa such. Sata protectiion does IF the database has been compromised.
Marco rose?
Why would he☺️
Please stop just picking half decent coaches out of thin air to make yourselfs look “at it”?
Embarrassing
Sata=data
I heard we have approached the French-Hungarian coach, Bogdan Roget.
He’ll be here for 10iar.
Steven (EBT) Thomson BBC promotion now anchor man for Scottish Cup coverage.
BBCLicencePayers CSC
Julie giving her Fleeting thoughts
Wonder if they will pap us to Murrayfield again this semi-final…
Aberdeen fans unfurled a banner written in Spanish, aimed at Morelos which read ‘your mother is a mattress’.
Scottish football ladies and gentleman.
Firhill for thrills 1-1
Mon the Jags 1-1
Go on the harry rags.
Mon Heid
Steven Thompson about rangers vs dons game .. “whos that a better point for”?♂?
My thoughts on individual and group bad behaviour.
There has to be a fast track way of identifying and arresting culprits who endanger the safety of players and other supporters.
It should start in real time as soon as an incident occurs by trained stewards filming those in the area and establishing with club database who bought tickets and club interviewing them within 24 hours to pin down the culprit and inform the police.
Then a well publicised arrest followed by a quick trial set up for the purpose of swift justice where corrective action according to the individuals circumstances is taken, fine or jail.
When it comes to singing, that is in the sticks and stones category and might involve many.
So a few need identified, arrested within say a week, tried the following and punishment published.
On legislation I agree that anything that affects a players wage would be challengeable if any bonus was related to where in the division a club ended at end of season.
Interestingly I heard the idea of club licensing being an alternative deterrent to legislation
If you think about it, it was UEFA stepping in (and they have rules covering safety at grounds that could apply ) that ended The singing of The Billy Boys (that started the Gotcha trail of the previous article) at UEFA matches.
Why not extend that to domestic competition and introduce indicators (UEFA like indicators) to show if a club 1) has a problem. 2) has addressed it 3) how successful their attempts have been at ending it and then decide at licensing time based on those measurements if a club is one UEFA would want a licence granted to?
UEFA could have no grounds for objecting to that since its not Government led, but if a transparent measurement system was introduced into club licensing it would have the same deterrent effect on the supporters of bigger clubs with European ambitions and for smaller clubs with no UEFA ambition making a licence conditional on improvement or playing behind closed doors would be a deterrent.
No reason why both approaches should not be explored..
I understand from the radio today that the study of modern languages is in deep decline in Scottish schools.
The banner from the Sheep fans would suggest otherwise, although it is obvious that good manners and taste are certainly not on the curriculum in Furry Boots City.
Levein getting pelters?
When is the draw
WHAT IS THE STARS
you missed it
Hearts v Celtic
ICT v Sevco
Bsr
And who did Aberdeen and Partick get
WITS ?
HOT SMOKED on 4TH MARCH 2019 7:25 PM
Yes the article is hard hitting and won’t be to the liking of many. However we ignore articles like this at our peril. I remember thinking what is my church thinking about, with it’s squirming relationship with Alex Salmond et al. It had and has the potential to alienate, remove influence and divide it’s flock at such a pivotal time.
What is important about this article is that it was composed by James Macmillan ( a prominent catholic and Celtic supporter )
Cheers and HH.
Woohoo draw on live.
Sheep or huns v Celtic.