Make what you wish of Strathclyde Police reporting Celtic fans for “illicit chanting” to a Uefa match observer in October, the bottom line is that Uefa have fined Celtic €15,000 (around £12,700), established a benchmark for future action and more importantly sullied the club’s reputation.
Job done by those who wanted this confrontation to happen.
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“Illicit chanting” is it?
I assume we will be told in a written judgement exactly what the fine is for? Does illicit = political in the UEFA rules? And will this set a standard by which all clubs in Europe will now be judged?
I can’t help thinking that the worms have escaped the can
The next time I am pulled over for speeding [allegedly!] will Strathclydes finest report me to
A} Local procurator fiscal ?
B} Interpol?
HH
Mullet and Co says:
12 December, 2011 at 16:11
‘lts pack it in and move on from this panto… to a bigger league were our supporters don’t feel drawn in to tit for tat crap.’
Pie in the sky.
We’re going nowhere fast.
Mort @ 15.58
“Was it for Paddy McCourt’s Fenian Army?”
– I’ve no idea whether or not that one is considered illicit, but what I’m sure of is that it is certainly at the ‘naff’ end of the Celtic songbook. On a par with the old favourite “Like me and you, he’s a provo too…” Neil Lennon song, the very thought of which still makes me cringe.
Mud sticks, so a sad day for Celtic I think.
Chairbhoy says:
As I pointed out earlier, the real issue is why did Eddie Smith, whose hardly giro level wages we pay, not order his men to deal there and then with what he perceived as being an offence? Someone at Celtic should be raisin this with Smith’s boss. After all the club pay sweet for police services on match day.
Paul67,
Job done indeed.
be interesting to hear the club’s statement/reaction to this fine.
As plenty others have mentioned, as yet we dont know for definite what song(s) were deemed illicit.
Im sure the club must have been told by now.
Time to pass on that information to the support……if only to attempt (perhaps forlornly, depending upon the song/lyrics??) to prevent it being sung again.
The previous CQN Songs debates may well seem to have been nothing other than mere minor quibbles once we hear more…………
HAIL! HAIL!
Token
So it’s a fine for the Celts and eddie smith chalks up an equaliser for the huns
I wonder what song(s) we got fined for
You would imagine that making that point clear would be the purpose of the fine
If that is not established then, it’s a bit like saying to someone, we are fining you £50 for a breach of the peace, but we are not telling where or when you committed that breach
Seems to me that between one thing and another, Alec Salmond’s
i really fear this is just the beginning, the SNP “even it up” bill about to be passed into law, Eddie Smith should hang his head in shame. What chance have we got when the chief constable of Strathclyde and the Justice minister praise the sectarian singing of 25000 orcs at last seasons league cup final.
didnt see anyone being reported then…..
Make no mistake the reporting of Celtic is part of a plan of action by the SNP and their hunnish allies to even up the score, If the club dont stand up for now they never will.
I said it last week Strathclyde police were jockying for position due to the shake up in pokice forces about to happen, we are under attack, our basic right to freedom of speach is being challenged.
I really fear serious disorder is going to happen if the police try to enforce this stupid legislation, but hey who needs it when you have quislings like Eddie Smith going about!
gebhoy
Paul67. I sincerely hope the chanters get it. The fine is insignificant in comparison to the reputational damage this has done. Such publicity doea not attract new supporters, sponsors or sell jerseys. We are tarred with the same brush, maybe thinner strokes, but nevertheless same brush as out city rivals. This is a sad day.
I hope we have heard the last of chanting and push forward in good spirit. No chanting and no casting ears over the water. In some ways I feel this fine is a political act to show not taking sides in Glasgow where lets face it we are probably only country to be reporting ourselves to Eufa.
The paucity of the alleged crime, and subsequent fine says it all, really.
But it won’t prevent media meltdown, followed by the permanent stain of ‘what aboutery.’
Do Celtic have a voice, let alone an appeal avenue.
Should have read. Seems to me that between one thing and another, Alec Salmond’s dream of independence may be crumbling before his eyes.
This is all Samaras’ fault.
The Celtic Symphony was not heard at Celtic games in donkey’s years until Samaras signed and fans were giving it ‘Oohh Ah Samaras’ which then led to a bright spark thinking ‘hey, lets sing that other song that sounds like that and ended it with Oohh Ah Up the Ra instead Samaras.
However, all would have been well had Samaras been consistently good because they would have kept singing ‘Ooohh Ah Samaras’ instead of ‘Up The RA’.
(Of course some of this is tongue in cheek but I distinctly remember the song being resurrected after he signed and there is something in what I say…… )
Sorry for the what-aboutery here BUT if it turns out it was the letters IRA or ‘RA that got us in trouble then we really need to see some consistency. YCV (Young citizen volunteers) is sung almost every game by the Orcish hoardes – the song which contains these letters also encourages the taking up of arms – something none of our own repertoire does. Doesn’t particularly offend me but it seems ‘illicit’ in the context of the punishment we have received.
Still, it all gives our chums on the talk ins something to talk about and those who wish to be outraged by it something to listen to.
As for me I’m still a Celtic supporting, Republican sympathising lefty who no longer sings many of ‘the tunes’ anywhere – football or not. There are more pertinent rebel songs to be singing.
That said I hope Celtic appeal it and I hope they give us all a clear indication of what the chants were. Otherwise how can we move on?
South of Tunis mentioned a wee while ago that part of Sion’s case against UEFA is that their procedures don’t adhere to the principles of natural justice.
They fulfill a judicial function but do so in an administrative manner.
Complicated matters are decided in a matter of minutes without interpreters available to translate proceedings into the first language of committee members.
I understand that Celtic weren’t allowed to attend the hearing. I don’t know how whether they were permitted to make written representation. We’ve never been told how specific the charges were.
No chance the board will do anything though. They wouldn’t want to, and even if they did want to, they don’t have the balls.
Any right minded Celtic supporter who votes SNP now needs to get a grip!
So the police have reported Celtic fans to the SPL & UEFA.
Have they ever reported any other group of fans?
If not, why not?We have all heard the chants.
stephenpollock says:
As long as we have hung on to THEIR coat tails nothing seems to have deterred sponsors.
ernie, the club have to say something they cant ignore it, although i doubt they will say anything of substance, they wont back the support, they should ask why Eddie Smith reported us but took no action on the day, this stinks to high heaven and i fear its just the beginning.
gebhoy
Ten Men Won The League at 16:09
Imo, it is for the add on at the end of “The Celtic Symphony”
Ooh aah up the Ra is not an “add-on”. It is part of the original lyrics penned by Brian Warfield. Whether or not it should be sung in the 21st century when most Irish republicans (in Ireland anyway) have moved on is debatable.
Mort
This is payback for Dougie Dougie, apart from anything else.
Fritzsong
stop being a narky auld sweetie wife and less of the jobbie staring
This has all been sorted out hours ago.
Why do you feel the need to rake over old coals ?
Are you now determined to put an end to the friendship that me and bigdanstheman have struck up because of this mis understanding?
Why would you want to do that ? Did you scribble the initial poem ?
Hail Hail
Quonno – I agree in Scottish context. I was thinking more about World market.
gebhoy is the taxmans tick tocking clock, tick…tock says:
12 December, 2011 at 16:24
The problem is that nor voting SNP will not be enough. There has to be credible alternative. And that alternative is currently on the sidelines because when in power, it did not appreciate what side its brad was buttered on.
Fritzsong
if you are Isa from Still Game I do apologise.
Hail Hail
I’m telling you now lads this was a set up and the ones who were in on it was Salmond,Corrigan. They need to enhance this bill as proof to show we need new legislation.
Eddie Smith was the yes man and if the celtic support think this is the end of it then they have another thing coming and that is a guarantee.
Why would you go straight to UEFA when you must speak to club 1st.
IRA must go but believe me offensive singing will be next and there will be other songs they want out because remember anyone who is offended will make a complaint.
If anyone on here think celtic will appeal this then they are wrong, Mr Lawell sad at AGM we will get rid of these songs.
Its a corrupt country we live in and everytime there is bad news for huns they try to create bad news towards us so they don’t need the topic to be all about huns and clyde is a great example in this.
Last year we spanked them in every game leading upto the shame game and all calls were about us wnning and what happens the next night they come out and parade mccoist and say hes the manager.
Next agenda was taxcase and what happens, they bring out kayal ducking and the green brigade focus and now this.
If we all remember the media etc started to pick on the green brigade for no reason and all of a sudden they mention the IRA songs and they tried to paint the green brigade in a bad light and then this.
This was a set up of the highest order and its time to start thinking boys the way forward because if we dont they are going to try to damage us and that aint a joke.
I was all for this boycott and we backed out, the huns heartz and another few teams are in dire financial states and this is the best time to strike.
If they want to mess us about then its time we stopped talking and act.
I would also say if huns goto admin and are formed as a newco then this will be our most powerful weapon to use against them and the establishment.
Another question that has to be asked is why does the media keep saying sectarian, this country is a joke and shame on anyone who voted salmond into power.
Eddie Smith you are a joke of a man like keevins and co and will do anything to enhance your career and in my eyes you are a despicable hun.
The 15K EUR fine…. what chanting was taking place, and what made it ‘illicit’?
That is a serious question…. the whole thing seemed very un-transparent, and I would really like to know which chant the police are talking about. (As clearly it will have to be avoided in future).
I suspect the chanting was in no way sectarian 8as this would doubtless have been mentioned) so probably points to support for a terrorist organisation. If the IRA is the ‘terrorist organisation’ in question (and I am speculating here) then we should be aware that this is the benchmark, and anything of this nature is unacceptable.
The Club will be well within their rights however, to contact the SFA, and ask what action will be taken against the ‘illicit’ chanting from the rangers fans on Saturday, in support of the YCV – the youth wing of the UVF. I am sure that despite it not being a UEFA fixture, the police are still bound to act, and clearly there has been a legal precedent set today with Celtic’s fine.
I am wary of banning political chanting, as I feel it impinges on free speech. however, it is FAR easier for Celtic fans to stop it than it is for the Huns, for whom their club was compelled to issue a list of approved songs which was so limited in its scope, it included something called Wolverhampton Town…… a song not heard since the 1950s.
Why stand by and take this? – if the police want to flag ‘illicit’ chanting – (not illegal… not sectarian…) then let’s make sure that this policy is applied consistently.
Make no mistake about it. Strathclyde Police are institutionally biased against the Celtic support, particularly those among us who wish to sing political songs. Therefore these songs have to stop being sung in any ground where we are playing. The stakes are too high to continue to chant about our heritage.
I’m not saying we should ever forget our heritage, just leave it at the turnstiles and pick it up again when leaving the stadium.
Hail hail!
stephenpollock says:
At last year’s agm, before the current chanting problem arose, PL claimed to have scoured the world for sponsors and got nowhere.
Mind you, a bit of regular Champions League advertising exposure migh have helped. But achieving that would involve a radical rethink within the Parkhead Boardroom.
This has got nothing to do with any particular song,its about us,an agenda that is in its infancy.This is just the beginning..
quonno @ 16:17,
“As I pointed out earlier, the real issue is why did Eddie Smith, whose hardly giro level wages we pay, not order his men to deal there and then with what he perceived as being an offence? Someone at Celtic should be raisin this with Smith’s boss. After all the club pay sweet for police services on match day”.
Have to disagree – the real point is that Celtic FC have been fined by UEFA, so it’s official ones as bad as the other.
That’s how it will be viewed – all those ghuys who wrote articulate and well constructed letters about the BBC’s comments on Cup final day and persisted in repudiated the claims have come to nought.
The fact that they found a Catholic Copper prepared to do the reporting and the UEFA to enforce the punishment it means any cries of bias will be rejected
A Precedent has been set!
I’m afraid Celtic fans do need to engage in some whataboutery.
We need to report to the appropriate authorities any singing of those ‘illicit’ political songs God Save the Queen and Flower of Scotland…
We don’t like your politics so we are going to make it illegal – gotta love democracy in action…
sigh…
Lenny Larsson says:
12 December, 2011 at 16:3
Agree with you to some extent. Problem for me is that was the party line in relation to the appointment of John Reid.
By the way, aint heard anything from his successor Iain Bankier.
There will be fans out there that want rid of IRA and believe me its the 21st century and yes i want them out but i will ask all tims this ? if rangers got done in 1st place would this have happened if huns got done and my answer is NO.
Remember the IRA did murder innocent people but so did the British Army so b4 anyone is quick to judge the IRA remember all the poor familys who lost a son or daughter through the british army and yes 2 wrongs don’t make a right but we go done to even it up.
I will say this again why did Mr Eddie Smith do it after all he is a so called celtic man, I’ll tell u why because the celtic fans did class him as one of us so it doesn’t look as if its a set up.
Could anyone on here imagine if it was a copper who supported rangers and what would we say then.
Chairbhoy says:
Sorry. The first night your house gets done and you get no action from Strathclyde’s finest you will be asking questions about well paid people not doing their jobs.
Incongruously, from the CQN book club link to Amazon, one can purchase a wide range of music featuring ‘illicit’ lyrics similar in style and content to those apparently now sanctionable in Scotland, together with an extensive range of official UEFA merchandise.
The goods in question will thereafter be dispatched from the Amazon facility in Dunfermline, officially opened only last month by none other than Mr Alex Salmond.
off-topic but
how many games before Danny Wilson’s appearances trigger a payment to RFC ? rough guess
he’s played about 4 games so far, i think
another 18 months of his contract to go
2mill up to 5mill, allegedley
If the club make a statement i don’t think they will name any specific song as this will make the headline. i.e they are not going to make ref to ooh ah up the ra.
What I would want them to ask is, how many fans were involved? A few hundred?Is the fine proportionate and commensurate with the numbers involved? If we applied the fine to the fans how much would it be per head?
The fine seems unfair and I expected a warning.
Interesting times in Europe. How do the SNP see themselves if Cameron gets his way? have the SNP decided that they don’t need the Catholic vote in Scotland? They have certainly turned the Catholic church against them and now there is a direct link to the equivalence legislation in a sporting sense.
Folk don’t care as much about the church but an attack on Celtic as brazen as this will see a shift in those who still think the SNP are the way ahead.
The SNP could have made significant moves in a few labour strongholds. Seems their calculations tell them they need to induce the hun vote.
quonno
I understand that Mr Bankier is extremely busy finalising the blend for the Celtic Malt.