Make what you wish of Strathclyde Police reporting Celtic fans for “illicit chanting” to a Uefa match observer in October, the bottom line is that Uefa have fined Celtic €15,000 (around £12,700), established a benchmark for future action and more importantly sullied the club’s reputation.
Job done by those who wanted this confrontation to happen.
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celtic40me
please enlighten us re what is and isn`t illicit
i for one don`t know
I don;t agree with the songs about physical force republicanism.
However, you seem to know the detail of the charge that even the club are unaware of?
Have you a source?
Árd Macha
TopCorner – cheers mate i’ll check it out when i get home tonight, great site that ragerstaxcase…not a patch on CQN of course:)
PFayr – you calm doon and have a wee tinto amigo;)
slainte
tony
I think it is a joke we have been fined all because of the actions of a cop trying to get to the top.
As has been said why did he not arrest the individuals or speak to celtic first.
If it is Celtic Symphony that is the cause is Eddie Smith going to close down HMV
http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?sku=452336
Everyone else’s fault.
Árd Macha says:
12 December, 2011 at 18:30
Shocking.
There must be an avenue in Brussels where they can be requested to intervene and investigate before the scottish govt pushes through this legislation.
We are after all, all European Citizens and they must protect our rights as much as the countries government.
PF Ayr,
I fully understand that argument (although don’t fully agree).
But as long as we have 40,000 supporters going to support the team, they will always find something illicit when they want to. The blatantly disproportionate approach by the establishment in “policing” Celtic should have been tackled long before now by the Club, and the real issues behind it. Why have we had to rely on Prof Devine, Michael Kelly and James MacMillan as the lone voices trying to make people see sense in the Scottish meeja?
And, here’s the icing on the cake. When our own supporters bravely organised themselves through the FAC protest at George Square, we saw some highly sinister and worrying results from that. The Green Brigade and the peaceful demonstrators who were present at the peaceful demonstration now find themselves on a terrorist database.
The Celtic Board must be seen to be taking action here. Even a few words would be helpful.
Torontony
for your info…
from RTC
http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/12/12/rangers-working-capital-facility-letter-disclosed/
Rangers’ Working Capital Facility Letter Disclosed
12/12/2011
Before getting into the meat of today’s disclosure, let me thank all of the contributors to this board once again. The quality of discussion has been excellent and the investigative digging being performed by both qualified professionals and interested amateurs puts the Scottish sports media to shame. This blog has far exceeded my wildest expectations in every measure. While any discussion of the affairs of Rangers and Celtic is bound to stir passions, I appreciate that the vastly majority of posters have been able to at least conduct themselves in a civil manner. To ask or expect impartiality in these matters would be foolish. The factually focused discussion enhances the experience for everyone. Once again- thank YOU!
I am attaching a link to the Working Capital Facility Letter which formed a key element to the transaction that saw Sir David Murray’s Murray Holdings Limited sell its controlling stake in the Ibrox club to Craig Whyte. The letter essentially provides a promise from Whyte to provide £5 million to Rangers to cover short-term cash requirements as a part of the transaction. This much we have known for several months already.
However, the interesting aspect of this letter is the following wording: (apologies for the image alignment)
[RTC INSERTS HERE THE ACTUAL DOCUMENT ( i re-print only the text of it here)]
the Facility will be withdrawn if
1. it is not utilised before 30 June 2012; or
2. the Club stops or suspends payment of any of its debts, or is unable to, or admits its inability to, pay its debts as they fall due; or…
Our legal experts will doubtless provide more qualified opinion, but item 2. above appears to give Whyte a one-way option on this facility. If Rangers fall behind on any payments to creditors, Whyte’s obligation to provide this funding could be argued to have disappeared. Who controls whether Rangers “stop or suspend payment of any of its bills”? Craig Whyte. It certainly provides an escape that in the event of receivership, Whyte would not have to make good on any of the £5 million commitment not paid in by then.
Such wording in a legal documents must surely call into question the actual purpose of this transaction? Maybe I am just cynical, but it looks quite transparent that many of the key provisions of the sale were cosmetic. The sale documents appear to me to be just an elaborate effort to hide the blushes of Sir David Murray. If the only person willing to take your ‘soon-to-be-bankrupted-from-your-tax-scam’ club off your hands cannot provide proof that he can fund the club even in the short-run (worst case failing to qualify for the Champions’ League or Europa League group stages), then how do you avoid blame for what happens? The inclusion of a series of sincere-sounding clauses making stern demands- but which have been reduced to meaninglessness by caveats and escape hatches- would certainly be an effective solution to your problem. Should the lack of working capital force the sale of key players (or worse), Sir David gets to hide behind the PR reductions of the contract terms. The official press releases, and even the Shareholder Circular, sounded as if Whyte had no get-outs: this money had to be paid.
Given Whyte’s fondness for writing cheques only when metaphorically dangled by the ankles over the Court of Session, we can only expect that when given an inch he will take a mile. The working capital data released on this site, along with the summary financial statements released by Rangers, show that the promised funds had not been invested by 30 June 2011. It would appear that Whyte has relied upon a combination the season ticket cash that was in the bank on his arrival and simply not paying any bills until legally forced to do so.
Whyte’s Rangers look all but certain to survive to the opening of the transfer window using this strategy (just a single payday to cover between now and then). Of course, we have limited data for the period after 30 June. So it is possible that Whyte has dropped in at least some of his commitment. The real challenge for Whyte is to raise enough money in players sales during the window or to dig deep into his own billionaire pockets and fill the cash flow hole by other means, By his own admission, he has a £10 million hole.
While Whyte bounces from crisis to crisis keeping the wolf from the door (something he done well assuming that there is no more cash), Sir David has been all but forgotten by the Scottish media. His role in mismanaging Rangers seems to be destined to become a footnote. His friends in the media seem reluctant to paint him as the architect of disaster. In the months ahead when this train crash reaches its conclusion, expect to see lots of media placement about how “Sir David tried his best to secure a new owner who could take Rangers to safety, but he got duped” or similar.
None of this might matter to Mr. Whyte. He appears to be a man of singular focus. While browsing Paul McConville’s excellent blog, I was reminded of this quote from Whyte’s interview with Tom English:
Q So where did you make your money and how much do you have?
A If I asked you how much money you have, you would be within your rights to tell me to F off, it’s none of my business. All that matters is that I’m delivering on what I said I would deliver on.
should be in italics like this….
the Facility will be withdrawn if
1. it is not utilised before 30 June 2012; or
2. the Club stops or suspends payment of any of its debts, or is unable to, or admits its inability to, pay its debts as they fall due; or…
celticlegends says:
12 December, 2011 at 18:52
‘I think it is a joke we have been fined all because of the actions of a cop trying to get to the top.’
I doubt that personal ambition was the primary motivation.
I suspect it was more to do with the referees’ ‘strike’, which was a humiliating failure for Eddie Smith and his refereeing brethren.
Eyes Wide Open,
Appears to me that the SNP on entering power, took the rule book from the One Party Unionist rule in the 6 counties from 1921 – fill in whatever date you like here
This is worrying indeed and wider than football.
Árd Macha
Well it didn’t take too long for the Uncle Tims to make an appearance. “The GB do not represent me” “No place for Irish Nationalist songs at CP” “It is all the fault of those that sing the add ons” FFS please see the bigger picture do you honestly believe that if it wasn’t, allegedly, an add on that they wouldn’t have found something else to attack us with. This has very little to do with what our support sing and a whole lot to do with Scottish politics and ambitious Police men.
Time to unite not start blaming each other.
Those who condemn both the GB and fans who chose to sing Irish Nationalist songs do not represent me.
Well said Seanbhoy69 on Clyde.
We need more folk like you on these things.
corrib04 is Neil Lennon says:
12 December, 2011 at 18:43
Well, it had to happen and of course they ‘are’ out to get us. Hasn’t it always been thus?
But to those who insist on singing add-ons with the chants of RA or IRA you have what you wanted.
Unfortunately the next step will be deduction of points in the league.
I am wondering just how many out of a crowd of 60,000 support the singing/chanting of RA/IRA?
You dont speak for me that is for sure.
Are you really saying that the people that sang these songs had this outcome as their objective?????
and can you tell me what % of 60k support you speak for, just for clarification
Pf ayr
We all knew that singing “ooh ahh up the ra” risked trouble from uefa, but we ignored it and hoped it would be ok
Is Charlie Sheen Happy @ 18:50
Nail on the head several times there imo.
They’ll be throwing young men into jail using BOP (just for wearing Celtic tops) to avoid the inevitablity of this bill being thrown out when it eventually reaches a court (albeit it might have to go a European court given recent results in Scottish law).
So far before the bill is passed, in the past 2 months alone, we’ve seen heavy handed-ness by them at CP, a scarf confiscated from a 12yr old boy because it had a picture of the Pope on it, in front of a bemused Catholic bishop, two 17yr old boys thrown into jail for the weekend, only for one of them to be denied bail, on a BOP charge, and not released until the Lord Advocate stepped in, presumably to kill the rising tide of support for the imprisoned boy before it generated enough publicity to go viral. And that’s just a fraction of it.
Vmhan, Kano 1000 – Supporting Lenny & the Green Brigada! says:
12 December, 2011 at 18:16
The most ridiculous thing about all of this is, someone posted a link with the wolfetones CD for sale in HMV.
Their concerts and music is often advertised in local and national newspapers in the north of Ireland, and has also been fetaured in TV adverts on UTV.
How can music and literature, that is on public sale by organisations who have to adhere to a code conduct themselves – all of a sudden be considered to be illegal.
It doesnt make sense and you would think any legal eagle who passed the 1st years course would blow holes right the way through any such fine or accusation of it bneing so.
The Celtic board cannot – repeat CANNOT – give ANY clarification on the illicit chants until they receive such clarification from UEFA.
Surely that CANNOT be that hard to understand??
Those posters using this issue to have a go – AGAIN – at the board – simply bore me rigid.
Árd Macha says:
12 December, 2011 at 18:58
What you would have thought was different was all the mechanisms of transparency and accountability introduced over the past number of years, in particular with the integration of Europe in Brussels.
I just cant get my head around all this happening infront of a globalised world and its media.
oglach UFB @ 19:01
To be fair, I’ve only noticed one person posting the Uncle Tim nonsense.
I think most here see the bigger picture. Sadly, the rest of the flamin country doesn’t. This country’s heading down a worrying road.
celtic40me says:
12 December, 2011 at 19:02
Pf ayr
We all knew that singing “ooh ahh up the ra” risked trouble from uefa, but we ignored it and hoped it would be ok
————————————————————————————————————————————————–
Wrong and i am paraphrasing somewhat but a UEFA delgate is on record stating singing songs or chants in support of the IRA are not considered a offensive / illegal / illicit. I believe we have ‘done’ for singing political songs –
Lurgan 53 @ 19:05
I’ve actually defended the board for some time on other things such as the famed “financial policy”.
But the support have been suffering from absolutely disgusting intimidation from a power-hungry polis force with the backing of a bigoted government – the Board’s silence on this worries me greatly.
That’s not finding excuses to attack them, that’s an expression of genuine concern.
Hope that doesn’t baffle you.
that should read we have be done for singing political songs
I see the appeasement brigade are out in force tonight, half wits one and all.
I feel uncomfortable with the IRA chants but lets be honest, once we stop them they would find something else to be offended with. We offend them just by existing. Draw a line in the sand Celtic.
Homebhoys Celtic phone-in on tonight lads….featuring Joe and Harper (Paul canny make it tonight)…at 730pm, CP time…
spreaker, hail hail media
http://tinyurl.com/3cundj9
http://scottishlaw.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00:00:00Z&updated-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00Z&max-results=50
Why did Salmond not grab the opportunity here to face up to this issue and deal with it?
Are the real figures so staggering that he felt compelled to take this action?
a cautionary note chaps are not de rigueur in the Parkville although a ‘friend’ told me otherwise.
Oglach
Well you might not have thought it risked trouble but I did and it looks like I was right.
How far down your list of those responsible for the fine do the people who sang the songs come?
So who speaks for Celtic fans and catholics in Scotland.
The bill and the acts surrounding it have gone beyond sinister to downright dangerous and an affront to civil liberties in any country.
Our Club want us to sing what they want and continue to pay money for a product they have utterly devalued. They have abandoned us on the alter of their greed.
The catholic church – having been bought by the SNP say nothing whilst attacks on their flock continue and the statistics hidden.
The police – highly politicised show clear bias and exhibit institutional sectarianism
The SNP government ignore claims of anti catholicism against their own ministers and our media just lap it up
The Media are in the pockets of the SNP
We are on our own and it wont stop here
What can you do?
Go and speak to your MP and MSP
Demand action from the catholic church
Do all you can to ensure we remove the SNP from power
Fortunes Favour Mibbes says:
12 December, 2011 at 19:03
Cheers. I agree we are already headed down a dangerous road with the legislation, especially in view of recent police action.
Whatever the legislative intentions of the current government/police might be, the framework will be in place for future government/police to round up (insert name of minority/political activists/whistleblowers here). They just need to deem it offensive. It is wrong.
There is a reason for freedom of speech. One of them is so we know who to avoid.
I understand that, where speech is an incitement to kill or repatriate, a restriction can be appropriate. However we already have legislation to cover that. It simpy does not apply to Celtic fans. This is the reason for the change.
I wonder what influence the refs leader…….the one who was banished oer the seas…had on his former foot soldiers such as Smith?
celtic40me @ 19:19
Your not a fan of free speech then? You support the punishment of those who excercise their right to free speech?
heard earlier (some post or other) that we are back in for Diawara
good !
doubt he’ll come
probably play up the league in Spain, or the like
What is political about Celtic Symphony? To me it would be fine footy song without the ooh ahh up the ra chant but political? Do me a favour!!
celtic40me says:
12 December, 2011 at 19:19
Oglach
Well you might not have thought it risked trouble but I did and it looks like I was right.
How far down your list of those responsible for the fine do the people who sang the songs come?
————————————————————————————————————————————————–
Honestly at the bottom of my list are the Celtic fans – the issue is far bigger than singing a coupe of extra lines to a song. In your opinion given the recent police actions against our support, the SNP’s determination to push through a flawed law that is aimed ensuring as many Celts are arrested as H*Ns up to even the score, the numeous failed attempts in Scots courts of law in an attempt to criminalise those that chosae to sing Irish political songs that if it wasn’t the add ons (if it was this) don’t you believe that the Scots establisment would have ultimately found something else to beat us with?
NegAnon2 @ 19:21
Is Charlie Sheen Happy @ 19:23
Well said, both of you.
Time to ditch these power-hungry muppets.
I was wondering who Paul meant by “those who wanted this confrontation to happen.”
Could it be those who persist in singing about the IRA regardless of all manner of pleas to desist?