Today we have a guest writer, Archie Macpherson, Scotland’s most celebrated broadcaster. Archie started broadcasting for the BBC in the 1960s and was the authoritative voice of football commentaries, and comment, for decades thereafter. He was co-commentator for our first European Cup win and remains a regular newspaper columnist and TV contributor.
I had a brief conversation with Archie last month when he categorically stated that Jock Stein was best manager Scotland has ever produced was. Pleased, though I was, to hear this, in the light of accolades earned by Sir Alex Ferguson, I asked him if he could substantiate his claim.
These questions are enormously subjective but few have the breadth of perspective, not to mention the analytical capacity, to tackle this one properly. This is the article he offered to write for us on the subject:
Jock and Fergie, by Archie Macpherson
If there had been no Jock Stein there would have been no Sir Alex Ferguson. It may sound a contentious statement to make but even though it is tempting to play around with history according to your own beliefs and perceptions I would stand by that as a sound interpretation of the way the respective merits of these men can be set against each other.
It helps in this matter if you can lay aside the achievements of those men from the record books and instead consider their personalities and the context in which they plied their trade.
When Jock came to Celtic as manager in 9th March 1965, he fully understood from his past experience there as a player and coach that he would find a club desperate to achieve a commanding status in Scottish football. The frustration they felt only reflected that which their massive support similarly endured around that period. They were massive underachievers.
He also knew from his own background that his task would not simply be about selecting a team, then motivating them, but about radically overhauling the perception the public in general had about the club and which stemmed mainly from the constructs of the media.
It may be difficult for a current generation to fully comprehend this but Celtic then were simply perceived as bit players in a drama where the lead actor came from Govan and always took the curtain-calls. Stein changed all that. He took on the press-pack like he had been sent in from the city’s sanitation department to fumigate.
If you didn’t turn up on the dot for his press conferences then the door was slammed on your face no matter the size of your ego. His television interviews, unlike the passive posture of that likeable man his predecessor Jimmy McGrory, were often truculent and challenging. All of this concentrated the mind of those who wrote and spoke about Celtic. They would think twice about saying anything that might offend the big man. He was strengthening Celtic’s image and, as a by-product of that, securing the self-esteem within the playing staff which previously had been sadly lacking.
And where was Sir Alec at this time? He was watching, observing. I saw him sitting in the lounge of Malpensa Airport Milan in 1970, in the aftermath of the European Cup Final there, amidst thousands of Celtic supporters, which given his Rangers connections only indicated his deep interest in what Jock was doing.
Fergie to his credit was a learner. When he went to Old Trafford it was not to a club about which there was lack of public respect. It was initial lack of respect for himself which made him take up arms against his detractors. To go to a Fergie press-conference was to see a recreation of Jock at the height of his powers. And from being beside Jock in the dressing-room, and on the bench at Scotland games, he absorbed Jock’s handling of men which could range from wrath to wit. The so-called ‘hairdryer’ treatment Fergie handed out only simulated what Jock could do to make the walls of a dressing-room bulge when it got up his hump.
Where they differed enormously as men was that Jock did not harbour grudges in quite the same way as Fergie. Jock did have his difficulties with the BBC initially but never refused to deal with them. Fergie barred them for over a decade, then got an award from the same people. So I am suggesting that although you cannot compare the achievements made in entirely different footballing environments, Fergie served his apprenticeship in the Stein era by consequently adopting much of the big man’s methodology. Jock was the ice-breaker. Fergie was the follow up.
In that sense, as the one was indispensable to the success of the other, I rate Jock as the master of the two.
My thanks to Archie for his contribution.
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Mea Culpa
15:17 on
10 January, 2014
ACGR 19.67 would seem like a rather poetic price….
Yeh waiting til it drops to that then buy buy buy lol..
sell again at 16.90 :-)))
“Erza Sevco shares,4 furra pound…….”
Jonny the Tim
15:23 on
10 January, 2014
Worth remembering that these could drop to 2p and a significant number of investors would still be doubling their money.
Johnny Clash
I reckon all those blazers are hidden away in your wardrobe (an insult to your surname de guerre) and you wear them at the weekends with a pair of nice fawn slacks and hush puppies
In fact I think you are the poster arthurwasbetterthanarchie and I claim my five pounds.
Merciless FFers turn the screw:
“We need to get the emails and letters flowing to UEFA in the wake of todays TRS article.
UEFA and Brian Quinn MUST have pressure applied to recuse him from this placemen post.”
——
“Lets not take our eye off the ball with this one Bears.
The **** Quinn is not on the inside for nothing.”
So Dean Shiels is looking to have his contract paid,I am sure £200K pay off is cheaper than the £300K+ they would pay for his contract
(yeh yeh i know,bill paying has not become habit forming)
what bout their keeper from last year and his court case for a payment,Neil Alexander.
I wonder when the ringfencing( a la Martin Bain) will start?
another Day another 38k doon the swanny
HH
Kitalba
The council houses in Janefield, Kerrydale and Dalriada Streets were demolished and the residents re-housed because the new Stadium blocked out their light and interfered with their TV receptions. Council tax payers footed the bill for this as the land was sold to Celtic Plc for a penny.
I think the houses were being demolished because they were in a terrible state of repair. I remember ( although open to correction) that the process of demolition of that area started before the re- build of Celtic park.
cadizzy
15:06 on
10 January, 2014
Cheers mate, it’s always good to have dreams and of course songs to sing!!! Especially when they are about the Tic!!!
HH GMB
It’s getting to the point where DD might have to buy them to protect his investment in Celtic.
Ah Neil, wizes up.
He must gie Amido.. The Next start.
But,Wull He?
or.. Wull Neil revert tae his Wont.. N.. Drap the Kid..??
Bring in.. Stokesy or.. Sammi… Fur the Next Game?
Amido,is Ready… The Kid Jist Needs Encouragement..
n a Start in the Next Game,is Crucial.. tae his Development.
Yes.. Encouragement..
Encouragement, is Good..
Dis-Couragement, is . well.. No Good..
Neil, Ye goatta Understaun whit is the difference between Those Two Woids.
fur wan wull Get ye a New Capable Striker..and the The Ither Wullnae.
Kojo
Still,laughin
an tearmann-i was told last week Shiels and Templeton have 900 k each left in their contracts,and were told to find new clubs.
yorkbhoy
Was there not also a story about some residents claiming it interfered with their tv reception and wee Fergus asked to see their tv licence , end of story .
yorkbhoy:
That post was a copy and past from 2005, that’s why I said I could not vouch for its veracity. The point of my post was – if it is true what is said in it – that people back in 2005 were demanding to know the allegiances of others whom they didn’t agree with.
I suspect that Alex Ferguson would agree with Archie MacPherson. There was a really nice wee anecdote on the recent BBC Alba documentary about Aberdeen’s win in Gothenburg in 1983. Jock Stein was invited to attend the match by Alex Ferguson and handed Ferguson a bottle of good whisky to present as a gift, before the match, to the Real Madrid manager, the great Alfredo di Stefano. Gie him that says big Jock…. it will knock him back (or words to that effect). Ferguson gave Stein credit for helping Aberden and the warmth with which he related the tale told its own story. There was, and always will be one master. Jock Stein.
Memorable commentary moments
” what a pass, what a move, what a goal” Arthur Montford, Celtic goal v Rangers
“….and Celtic are playing even better then Celtic have played” 25 May 1967 1-1 Kenneth Wolstenholme
” and that makes Clement’s day complete” Dalglish goal Scotland v England David Coleman
” what a pathetic effort” W Johnston attempt, SC final 1969 Archie McPherson
I would say however that Archie McPherson had matured somewhat by 1985-86 Rangers 0 Aberdeen 3 (sorry can’t do You Tube links” on this. It’s a wee bit of nostalgia which includes some great Aberdeen players and a future BBC pundit. Oh and also, dignity!
RIFC share price dropping like a stone. I’d expect a Stock Exchange announcement at 16.30.
fourgreenfields-the TV licence story with wee Fergus is one of my favourites,a genius at work.
weeminger
15:39 on
10 January, 2014
It’s getting to the point where DD might have to buy them to protect his investment in Celtic.
First class!
Nice article but i wasn’t aware there was a debate
For every ten pounds of Sevco shares we’ll spend a fiver.
phyllis-what price are they now mate?
!!Bada Bing!!
Seen on TSFM
15:31:42 10-Jan-2014 28.02 1,500 420.30 Ordinary trade
leftclick-lovely :))
Rangers shares shed pounds quicker than a Weightwatchers diet.
What you gonna do, McCoist? Choices, choices!
Sevco now has an official company valuation of £18.88m
!!Bada Bing!!
15:58 on
10 January, 2014
Last trade was at 28p.
I imagine that word is getting out that they’re going to struggle to make the required cuts.
Bhoys just got an email fae Premier Sports,they are giving you Sunday’s game v Ajax/Galatasaray live @ 4.30 for £1 details on their website with a code to enter
28p – down 11% on the day.
Someone just posted this on the RIFC Share Discussion Board:
“Market Capitalisation £18.88m Is someone having a laugh with this or is it genuine?? 1888”
Bom dia, from the sand dunes of NE Brasil
(sadly a work assignment. Hard to catch a tan when in a hard hat, boots n boilersuit, you know).
Anyway, all this talk of the Lisbon Lions – for those who’ve not already read it, I thoroughly recommend the Road to Lisbon which I’ve just finished (in a night).
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Road-Lisbon-Martin-Greig/dp/1780270844/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389369790&sr=8-1&keywords=the+Road+to+Lisbon.
On a par with Erch’s book about Mr Stein (which I rate as one of the best Celtic related books I’ve read) and a better read than the Damned United, IMHO.
Elsewhere, for those wi an interest in Brasilian fitba – the furore about Fluminense / Portugesa being relegated, trundles on…….
Portugesa’s appeal to the CBF on Dec 27th was rejected, so they drop to Serie B. Or do they? Latest is (in terms of incompetence the SFA still have their training wheels on, when compared to the CBF) that the CBF are considering (this year only) having a 24 team league (ie. suspending the four/up down).
So let me see, an already overlaoded fixture list with a shutdown for the World Cup and the introduction of four more teams.
Aye right!
Code tor Premier Sports is ONEPOUNDFORJAN
Chris Graham@ChrisGraham764m
Rangers shares down another 2.5p today (8%). Still complete silence from our ‘new’ board. Just as well fans didn’t buy as an investment….
Waaaaaaahhhhhhaaaaaahhhhahhhhaaaaahahaha.
Soon be the penny arcade for sevco shares right enough then.
cadizzy,
McCoist and Weightwatchers in the same post? That’s just cruel.
I am just glad that I never took up that option to. Buy £25,000 worth of shares when they were first advertised for TRFC int. :). :)
Craigy Whyte set to make an announcement on what is happening with his club.
28p?
Sounds aboot right..
Ah Imagine.. The Shareholders who Kin.. Ur … well.. Dumping.
The No Sell Clause in the G.A. Stocks, has Expired.
Noo is the TIme fur Awe Guid Men..
Tae ..Get tae Hell oot o’ the Party!
Kojo
Still, Laughin.
On Sevco shares and shares in general.
Sevco can’t punt McCoist because if he punts all his penny shares they are done for is that a fair assessment? I believe he has a fair whack of shares. I believe it is 3% of the total but may be wrong.
They are plumetting to a level that the blue knights may invest?
Does Martin O’Neill still have shares in Celtic? I believe he referred payment in wages to received shares.
Did Gordon Strachan or Neil Lennon receive shares as part of their wages?
Cheers in advance if anyone can shed any light on these.
As for the best Archie commentary. My old man swears that at a game in the 80’s at Hampden he uttered the following words:
‘And there they are the men who defy gravity’
This was in relation to the Bhoys who used to stand on the fences inbetween the penned off sections in the Jock Stein Terracing (M,N,O,P) sections.
Nobody has been able to trace it and the only game my dad wasn’t at around that period at Hampden was the 2-1 victory against Hearts in the 1988 semi final in the famous Henry drop the ball game.
Another amusing story was a Scottish cup semi final may have been 1990 when we played Clydebank and I think we drew. My old man was listening to the radio and disappeared up the lavvy just before half time and we were soaked with a heavy downpour of rain which lasted about 10 mins. He appeared a few minutes later bone dry while I was wringing out my Celtic top.
I said to him ‘How you bone dry?’
He said ‘the guy on tranny said there was a down pour on it’s way to Hampden as it had just left Ibrox.
Typical Clydebank chancer. Left his 12 year old Bhoy to get soaked whilst he sheltered in the lavvy! That game went to a replay if I remember rightly.
LB