Former Rangers chairman, Alastair Johnston, made it clear on BBC Radio Scotland last night that putting the company into administration was never Sir David Murray’s plan. There was, he said, an understanding that should the First Tier Tribunal (FTT) decide against Rangers, the new liability would be absorbed into the Murray International Holdings (MIH) group of companies, just as MIH absorbed £50m of Rangers debt in 2004.
Johnston explained that the potential Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) tax liability was only 3% of MIH bank debt and that the group, which owned the overwhelming majority of Rangers anyway, would not find its position materially changed by absorbing the debt directly.
MIH would continue to manage its portfolio of investments back to rude health and neither it, nor its bankers, would have blood on their hands for putting Rangers down.
All this changed when Our Hero arrived on the scene with his £1. Johnston explained, as he had done in explicit detail before, that Lloyds Banking Group gave MIH and the independent board of directors at Rangers no choice but to accept the offer from Mr Whyte.
When the offer arrived last year Lloyds were already reaping a whirlwind of negative sentiment from being Rangers bankers and would view any exit from the situation as desirable. The bank itself, now significantly owned by the taxpayer after a government bailout, was also under immense financial pressure with a fiduciary responsibility to reduce their exposure to bad debt. They were hardly in a position to refuse £18m to clear existing debt with the removal of a potential £50m liability.
Once the offer materialised it was inevitably accepted. The old board’s plan to successfully steer the club through the potential loss of the FTT intact was usurped.
Neither MIH, the independent board nor, it could be argued, Lloyds, had any choice. Although while Mr Johnston insisted his hands were tied, he failed to see the bank’s decision makers were also between a rock and a hard place.
One final push (this week) for the Vanessa Riddle Appeal. We have a Celtic top signed by the first team squad available to auction on eBay. You can bid on the auction and help send Vanessa for the treatment she needs by clicking here. Thanks to Penfold for the donation and to Taggsybhoy for organising (yet again).
We don’t need no stinkin’ Rangers.
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Angie
Triskel Tavern, Calle Vincente Ferrer
Madrid Emerald meet there
Of course ‘There will always be a Rangers and they will always play at Ibrox’ said the man who claimed ‘Administration will be a last option’ just two weeks ago.
Heart-warming isn’t it?
Now Hector has played his card:
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/297509-hmrc-moves-to-put-rangers-into-administration/
hailhailplc, I hope they hear you.
Battered Bunnet, thank you for that correction.
Burnley78, 10:58, “no one stepped forward for the fight…..they all surrendered”.
You’re a bad man. In a good way, of course.
I second the call for Ken Gallaghers masterpiece.
While enjoying one’s Jelly & Ice Cream, please remember those who are in need and pass on to those who are currently coming to terms with their impending loss….
http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/depression-grief
HAIL HAIL
The other day I put this idea forward regarding how to get round the necessity the media are throwing around for their OF games and the SKY contract.
I think it should be revisited.
There are 42 clubs in Scottish football at present (too many I am sure you will agree).
To get these games while Rangers are in a lower division you reintroduce league cup sections:
Glasgow Section
Celtic
Some team in blue
Partick Thistle
Queens Park
Do the same with Edinburgh, North East, Far North East, Ayrshire etc and the fact that these will be local games increases the chance of revenue being higher from gate money.
Edinburgh Section
Hibs
hearts (or whoever they are)
Livingston
Berwick Rangers
Ayrshire/Galloway?Dumfries
Kilmarnock
Ayr United
QOTS
Stranraer
Annan Athletic
Dunbarton
Because you need one 6 section group
North East
Aberdeen
Forfar
Brechin
Montrose
Tayside
Dundee United
Dundee
St Johnstone
Alloa
Central 1
Motherwell
Airdrie
Albion Rovers
Hamilton Accies
central 2
St Mirren
Morton
Dunbarton
Clyde
Stirling/Falkrik
Falkirk
East Stirlingshire
Stenhousemuir
Stirling Albion
Far North
Ross County
Peterhead
Inverness Caley Thistle
Elgin City
FIFE
Dunfermline
Raith Rovers
East Fife
Cowdenbeath
10 groups, 1st placed team qualifies plus 4 best runners up
Last 16
Or we make another two groups with 6 teams (those not in Europe) and we get a last 8 (quarter finals onwards)
Not a perfect system but a better alternative to allowing cheats to prosper.
But this gets you 2 of these games and if two teams progress you might get another one but if not two are covered.
Sky currently don’t cover the league cup but that is what negotiation is for and it would bring life to a poor tournament if truth be told. use it at the start of the season as it used to be to get the teams up to scratch for European games etc.
Everyone’s a winner
Then Rangers in whatever form play from Division 3 upwards benefiting the lower league sides’ coffers with their away support. This is truly for the good of Scottish football.
As for the remaining two matches – use the Scottish cup and guarantee Celtic must play them in a home and away tie in round 3 – away goals count like in a European tie. Celtic win with the better squad but Rangers (or whoever they are) have the opportunity and you can factor in honest mistakes into those games.
Sky currently cover the Scottish cup and will do so there should be no need to worry on that account.
4 games met – TV contract saved.
80 Million pounds spread over 5 years?
Rangers get their cut for the 4 games as is only fair but it is less than they would get in the SPL
They have no Euro Licence anyway so they should use the time to work their way up.
IF there is a will, reconstruct the league to get them back faster and all top flight sides get an equal split of TV money to offset losses and improve the their financial positions.
If there is a will for a 16 or 18 team league
You can have
Celtic
Aberdeen
Hibs
Hearts
Dundee United
Motherwell
St Johnstone
Kilmarnock
Inverness
Dunfermline
St Mirren
then add
Ross County
Falkirk
Partick Thistle
Hamilton Accies
Raith Rovers
Livingston
Dundee
This gives you a top flight with home and away AND gets them back up quicker and you still get 4 of these precious matches we only buy our season tickets for (or our subscriptions to Celtic TV if we live abroad).
If it is an 18 team league at the top, that leaves the possibility of a 12 and 10 team division 2 and 3 or a 22 team division 2. They get back faster in other words and serve their European suspension while their hordes benefit the lower league sides to the tune of handsome gate money from their away support. Sky can do pay per view if they want to make further money from Rangers fans and they get their cut of that money by getting none of the top flight’s money (other than their cup coverage cash). Fair is fair.
This is far from perfect but it is a better alternative to straight reentry and a debt free club allowed to start with a clean slate.
Get these messages out there if you agree and if you have any points to make about my idea, lets hear them but don’t let them get a free pass for cheating.
Lets address a few points being raised by Brer Hun and their acolytes with regard to us suffering financially if they were gone from Scoittish fitba.
The Sky tv deal. They say Sky will not honour it because of the loss of 4 Tim v Hun games. Well
mebbees, mebbeees naw. What do we get from this bouty of plenty? 2 mill a season ? OK, the deal changes but Sky still have to fill their TV schedule and Celtic is a top puller so are they really going to drop the Premier league all together? Opportunity knocks then. Do we negotiate a larger slice of the cake from Sky with the huns out the picture or offer our league pals a better deal to improve the standard. If we do this do we offer a a better deal to the rest but on the proviso we get overseas rights to all our games. Either way we are quids in or at least no worse off.
Shirt and other sponsorship. They say who is going to pay big money to a team in a one horse league…… This is a biggy. Shirt sponsorship. No joint deals with the hun means more money for the only true ‘big’ club in Scotland. No risk to the sponsor from alienating half the population because there is no other half to alienate. Seemples… Celtic will be the sole representative from Scotland in the Champions league for the foreseeable future with all the TV and stadium exposure that comes with that. Sponsors wont be interested in that? Whit?
I can only see more money coming to Celtic with the demise of the beasts. The taint of sectarianism will erode from the national game with their loss attracting sponsors. There is an opportunity to improve the game in Scotland. If not, and I am wrong, then we can always move elsewhere……
wheres ma two Jerries….
‘HMRC moves to put Rangers into administration
This comes after Rangers had lodged a notice of intent to appoint an administrator’
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/297509-hmrc-moves-to-put-rangers-into-administration/
Grant Russell @STVGrant Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Breaking news: HM Revenue and Customs are applying for a court-appointed administrator at Rangers. More here: bit.ly/zEe846
Retweeted by Fritz A. Grandold
Get your laughing gear round this Bhoys
Pedrocaravanachio67
From previous thread …
Michael Marra
That guy is an absolute legend with his repertoire of great songs and humour.
Erm if HMRC were going to do a deal with the Bears why would they be trying to get the first boot in the haw maws in at court?
No Deal Tax Dodgers!
We don’t need no stinking Rangers
#burnley 78
do you mean this one? (thanks Pablophanque for posting this, amongst all the others that night)
“• Murray’s Blueprint
The Herald, March 2000
KEN GALLACHER
Just as promised, Rangers are moving on to another level from the rest of Scottish football, as chairman David Murray announced a new investment of £53m for the Ibrox club, with a further massive cash boost soon to follow.
The eventual cash injection could soar as high as £80m as Murray guides the club into what he believes will be a new, golden era for the Scottish champions. The money involved, the biggest financial boost for any Scottish football club, will enable them to move into Europe’s elite over the next few years. Yesterday, however, Murray maintained, as always, that he will not turn his back on Scottish football to play in any other league, and that while he remains in charge of the club, he will retain a responsibility to the domestic game.”
It is clear from this latest move, however, that the Glasgow giants are setting an agenda that no other Scottish club can match – and that appears to include their Old Firm rivals, Celtic, who are trailing by 15 points in the Premier League championship and are now looking at a financial gap which the Parkhead club might not be able to bridge. There have been hints around Glasgow that Celtic could be ready to attempt a share flotation of their own, but it would seem unlikely they would be able to match the financial clout that Murray has put together. The Ibrox chairman promised his shareholders good news and a more prudent financial strategy at the last annual meeting of the club. He has now delivered this by taking on board several very heavy financial hitters, South African-based David King is worth around £300m – £20m of which he is investing in the club he followed as a young man in Glasgow.”
The Ibrox chairman has spent several months and many sleepless nights piecing together the plans which will eliminate Rangers’ debt, currently sitting at around £40m, provide finance for the new training centre and the soccer academy which will be housed there, and still allow cash to invest in new players. He said: ‘I want to make it clear from the outset that while our small shareholders, our supporters who have an interest in the club, will have the opportunity to invest again if they want, there is no pressure on them to do so. The bulk of the rights issue is being taken up by myself and David King and some other smaller investors, including Alastair Johnston, who is a long-time Rangers’ supporter.’
‘We also have Trevor Hemmings coming in as an investor and Tom H***** will join us some time in the future. Essentially, the investment we require is in place and we also have a major media deal in the pipeline which is very exciting and will bring in further serious investment to the club. I told you earlier this week that I had run the club up to now on a high-risk strategy which has involved carrying large debt. These days are over. The whole method of running the club is going to change, because we are in a situation right now where we do not need to take the risks we have had to take in the past. We don’t have to spend the same money on players, for example, as we have had to do over the past two years when we were restructuring the team after the arrival of Dick Advocaat. At the moment, we have two new players set for next season, Allan Johnston and Fernando Ricksen and Dick is looking for another quality striker. He is working hard on that right now.’ ‘Dick and myself know what we are aiming for.
We want to be in the Champions League every season. This is what we want for the club and this is what we have been working towards. However, we shall not be going on any wild spending sprees in the transfer market.’ ‘We have a player or two to add to the squad – a top-class international front player, as I said, but we don’t need to buy Numan, van Bronckhorst, Mols, Reyna, or McCann – because we have these lads in place already. Believe me when I tell you that we are going for it this time – we want to be successful in Europe, and the money we are raising now will take us there.’
‘This is the last part of the jigsaw for me, but we shall always be a part of Scottish football and we will take our domestic responsibilities seriously. We respect the other teams in the Premier League and we know this news will make them try even harder against us. But, so be it. ‘Barcelona don’t win every week. Bayern Munich don’t win every week. Manchester United don’t win every week. Yet, our supporters expect us to do so and we shall always try to do that. What we do know is that to be in the Champions League, we have to win the Scottish title, and that is our aim every season. We shall always be here with our roots.’
However, the mega-deals Murray has been working on are sure to carry Rangers out of the reach of their rivals here at home and unless Celtic can somehow find the means to strengthen their own financial standing even the age-old rivalry between the Glasgow giants will be threatened as the Ibrox men grow ever stronger.”
RogueLeader – that is absolutely brilliant. HMRC must have been waiting for Whyte to show his hand. With his form they will have known he had a pair of twos.
If their move is granted then the huns are in big, big danger.
johnnyquest 8.25 today AUCHINAIRN C.S.C
For me the crux of the matter is that the SFA, SPL and the SFL follow their own rules and regulations, precedents are already set. If this happens, and Neil Doncaster went on record last week to say the rules will be applied”without fear or favour” then that is exactly what I want. He was not being specific, he couldn’t be it was all hypathetical. However, if the rules are apllied then a Newco will be in Div.3, that is at best, they may not win a place in the SFL.
If Newco wins a place in Div.3 we must remind everyone that this is not a case of the Hun is dead, long live the Hun. it is simply that the Hun is dead. Monty Pythons parrot sketch may well become appropriate, this is an ex club, it is no more!
Truth
Are you having a laugh, your mob should have lived within your means.
When the myth returned the tax bill was issued , what did minty do? put money aside to pay it? Eh no spends 30million on players.
Just this week mbb new you were going to apply for administration what does he do? Pay off any bills outstanding to other clubs?(or ta least try to) naw he gets cousins in on 7500 a week.
And Celtic fans have to be prepared to dig you out a hole? No chance. Rager fans must realize that you are not the people, never been the people.
Pay what you owe. Fall on your sword if you must but please do so with dignity.
Be gone sir and all like you.
Keep the faith
Mtt
Moonbeams
I am 100% convinced that HMRC are going after the whole lot of them and because they are all in it together.
Murray, Whyte and AJ
Two birds with the one stone.
Murray and Whyte and those daft enough to follow their orders ….. and it is not about money.
HMRC know for sure that they will not get their due money it is another kind of satisfaction they are looking for.
Removing criminals from the scene basically.
What needs to be understood that Craig Whytes action yesterday means that their is NO COMMUNICATION between HMRC and RFC.
What needs to be understood that Craig Whytes action yesterday means that his final pitch was dismissed out of hand probably a few days ago.
What Craig Whyte is attempting to do and with full MIH backing is to make an emotional pitch (I.e emotional blackmail) to HMRC regarding hun FC
Everyman and his dug knows that HMRC dont do emotion
Craig Whyte knows this
AJ knows this
Skinty knows this
But the daft we deluded bears dont … and that´s why it has been done.
So they can blame the HMRC while queueing up to kiss their grandmasters backside.
YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hail Hail
Does anybody know how much will be required to be paid to HMRC as a security bond to ensure that the pre pack administration route can be taken ?
Hail Hail
HMRC probably concerned that the administrator proposed by Whyte is in his pocket.
tomtheleedstim – the “turnaround specialist” looks more like a bumbling chancer as the minutes tick by. Somebody on Twitter posted this and it is so apt…
“Outsmart HMRC? He couldn’t outsmart a Coatbridge roofer”
Link to article
Taxman to target firms who avoid debts using pre-pack administrations
Tax officials have been given new powers to tackle rogue directors who avoid Crown debts by using controversial pre-pack administrations.
By James Hurley 9:43PM GMT 07 Feb 2012
From April, HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) will be able to demand a security from companies when the taxman considers there is a “serious risk” that the business will try to dodge PAYE or National Insurance Contributions (NICs).
The crackdown is targeted at business owners who deduct income tax and NICs from their employees’ pay packets “but have no intention of paying it to HMRC”.
The tax office said these companies often build up “substantial debts” and then use a pre-pack administration to set up a new, debt free business – a so-called “phoenix firm” – to continue trading.
Failure to pay the security – which can be a cash deposit or a bank bond – demanded by HMRC will be punishable with a fine of up to £5,000.
HMRC said that the new powers, an extension of rules used to tackle VAT dodgers, will “not affect employers who have genuine payment difficulties”.
Tax officials added that the “amount of tax at risk, the employer’s previous behaviour and other risks” will be used to determine the size of the security, but it will typically be either four or six months’ worth of income tax and NICs.
About 400 companies are expected to have to provide a security in the next financial year, HMRC said.
The move by follows a decision by the Government to scrap plans that would have overhauled pre-pack deals with measures designed to protect trade creditors from rogue directors using them to dump debts.
Pre-pack administrations allow firms that are about to collapse to be restructured and sold to new owners – often the existing management – without the consultation of unsecured creditors.
From RTC;
corsica says:
14/02/2012 at 10:45 am
3 0 i
Rate This
Lucculent Sam on 14/02/2012 at 3:25 am said:
**********
If only you knew…this is bigger than just a simple (albeit large) tax case. Can’t say more than that but I suspect there could be an empty castle very soon.
Have I got this right? The complaints from orcville about the bank being to blame for Sir Minty’s problems, led to the bank forcing through the MBB deal so they could get out, ergo, the current situation is also a direct result of the hun hordes themselves.
Priceless. Just when it couldn’t get sweeter :)))))
From prev thread:
Jungle Jim @ 10:25
Ahh ! 100 yrs of unrepentent bigotry. So that’s what this “proud tradition” and “institution” stuff is that I keep hearing about on the news just now.
TBB
Is it so bad in a case of mistaken identity to be mistaken for the one who will ultimately be at the helm while they disintegrate ! I’ve just made you a hero man! Although whoi yuv gut taw pranawunce yor vawwels oan yon Duric gotteruck way oll navur naw.
This is going to run and run this Baby and where she stops nobody knows..
WDNNSR
Anyone explain, in the language suitable for a simpleton such as myself, the significance of HMRC going to the Court of Session this afternoon?
Mon the HMRC.
SwanseaBhoy
So Ratners think they have 9 days to decide whether or not to go into administration themselves
not according to Hetcor he is making it for them.
I’ve been talking to myself on the last blog!
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/297509-hmrc-moves-to-put-rangers-into-administration/
HMRC call Whyte’s bluff.
Cousin £7500 x 13 weeks £97,500
Money owed to Dundee Utd £ 100,000
Not exactly rocket science
Hector’s got a Full House…
Still about an hour behind with the catch-up,so many superb posts over the last 24 hours or so-present company excepted!
So I’m away back to the distant past of the last thread,not wanting to miss a gem like AMADEUS at 1021,or that choob truth4767 about the same time.
Compare and contrast those posts.
Compare and contrast us and them.
SwanseaBhoy
The HMRC making this move ensures that whytes bluff of yesterday was a pointless action.
Whyte: We might go burst if you are not nice to us.
Hector: OK we will make sure you do.
Whyte: Fold
Truth…for every season ticket you lose ..we will buy two of our own club…hh
SwanseaBhoy
It means Whyte wont be able to appoint the administrator. Also the timing has been taken from his hands.
In simple words, they’re fecked!
This party is picking up the pace
Court appointed administrator will look after the interests of creditors unlike if RFC had done so
big mistake by the billionaire
SwanseaBhoy – better will be along soon to explain but I think if HMRC are succesful this afternoon Whyte will lose control of the insolvency process. A court will appoint an independent administrator today, 10 points off today, which will make it harder for Whyte to get the Pre-Pack outcome he wants.
I wonder if the pictures showing the Duff & Phelps man walking into Ibrox day 1 with Whyte sharpened their pencil in regards to the right man to get the creditors debts returned as opposed to the right man to get as much dosh for MBB and to hell with everyone else
yessssssssssssssssssssssssss get in there hector lol when the tax man come calling you either write a very large cheque or you close the doors for good bye bye rangurs bye bye ,
:0)
Pffffffffft.
From Follow Follow:
“E Petition to downing street?
Would this be an idea to put pressure on the goverment to influence HMRC. If we get more than 100,000 signatures it must be debated in house of commons.
We can make one here http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/
Could someone please put up a proposal of one I could create or do one themselves. We need to stand together now and fight , fight , fight.
These have worked in the past for gurkas ”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Get signing Hoops. That would have me glued to the BBC Parliament channel.
:0)
SwanseaBhoy
My mindset may be somewhat flawed, but I strongly believe that in any kind of warfare, no quarter is or should be given. You find the enemy weak and vulnerable point and go for it with all guns blazing. That said, if I were heading up the HMRC investigation I would strike now when the enemy is down. Fair, yeah I think so , so come on HMRC and put them out of their misery once and for all, you know it makes sense, after all it is OUR money and we want it returned to the treasury now.
I have given a lot of thought to the scenario where if it had been CELTIC in the situation as serious as it is, just what would be the reaction? I think I know the answer.!!
Hail Hail
KINGLuBO