Kettling, def., the confinement by police of a group of demonstrators or protesters in a small area, as a method of crowd control. The kettling of football fans now appears to be a standard part of police armoury, in Glasgow as well as in Paris. As a fan, it feels that police don’t like fans congregating, or even queueing, outside a ground, they would prefer to ‘kettle’ them in a claustrophobic area, where a small number of officers and horses can establish authority over the crowd.
When kettled, you are immediately aware of the danger. A crowd is a dynamic entity. Crushing is not inevitable, but everyone is vulnerable to a few bad actors. Decision making police always seem to be far away from the kettle. Policies were laid down, probably days earlier, the officers, vehicles and horses involved in the enforcement are, at best, several minutes away from an authorised action to de-escalate an incident.
What happened at the Champions League final, hours before kick-off, a kilometre from the stadium, was lazy and dangerous policing. French politicians and Uefa officials immediately blamed fans, that hoary old habit. Fans – people – deserve better.
The police actions in Paris on Saturday evening did not happen spontaneously. Rioting has been a growing problem in French football since the return of crowds, culminating in an out of control pitch invasion by Saint Etienne fans last night, after a penalty competition consigned them to Ligue 2 next season. Police response to a legitimate issue, was to profile football fans prejudicial manner.
For decades across Europe, authoritites too lazy or understaffed to police properly, expose fans to danger and intimidation.
After a two year hiatus, the CQN Charity Golf Day will take place at Aberdour on Friday 2 September 2022. Details will be available soon.
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Shoot
Goal👏👏👏
Third? And I read the article.
Rangers have joined forces with Eintracht Frankfurt to file a dossier to UEFA after being flooded with complaints over treatment of fans in Seville.
Hope its better than their last dossier, which was complete mince😵
There was a time when england went abroad,the English coppers would have accompanied the fans and had close cooperation with the police of the jurisdiction involved.I don’t know if any police from England travelled to Paris with L’pool crowd,but it could well help to defuse any situation that could arise and,English police could contribute to any investigation if called upon.
Pingback: Kettling, lazy policing and fan danger | Celtic FC News Now
St Stivs. Just caught up with things. Last time I was in the Club for some reason I could not find the photo that is up on the wall at the back of the stage. I could not miss out on being photographed with Charles Patrick, the great footballer my dad took me to see at Shawfield when I was a mere lhad, many, in fact too many years ago. The photo was taken outside the Airport in LIsbon. Most of the lhads in the photo have gone to their eternal rest. .
Afternoon all.
GFTB on 29TH MAY 2022 10:20 PM
Apologies for the late reply. I was delighted for Spike’s laddie, an excellent boxer.
My brothers in law a real good pals with Spike.
Hope you can get along to the Tollbooth tomorrow, I’ll be there with my boy.
HH
Brian
For decades across Europe, authoritites too lazy or understaffed to police properly, expose fans to danger and intimidation.
Did Celtic comment on Celtic fans being kettled?
No
Did Celtic publish the report into the crush as huns were allowed to break police cordons at first game against the team dermot wants to play every day?
Celtic won’t comment on fan/police trouble
However addresses will be supplied to Police
On request.
Let’s have a serious comment and a serious look during close season at our clubs relationship
Is it value for the monies paid for it.
Let’s look at how fans are treated at our home
HH
Voted
Bhoyjoebelfast- Merseyside Police and LFC Stewards were in Paris ,the French Government on TV just now, whitewash material
I think Guardiola was spot on when he spoke of the strong support for Liverpool within the press corps. The complete lack of any examination of their fans behaviour in going to the ground and then trying to gain entry without valid tickets was at the core of what happened on Saturday. They also have previous in this regard – see Athens 2007.
Liverpool FC need to get to grips with their problems before criticising others.
When I attended Seville I got t the ground a good hour before kick off.
Yhey had already run out of everything, incld water and annoyingly, programmes . After the game, a long trek back to the city as there was no buses and precious little taxi’s
I genuinely cant remeber a single complaint
BADA:
Thank you for reply.
AN DÚN on 30TH MAY 2022 12:41 PM
‘The complete lack of any examination of their fans behaviour in going to the ground and then trying to gain entry without valid tickets was at the core of what happened on Saturday.’
###
Was it?
How do you know this?
Were you there?
Have you spoken to anyone who was there?
What was your opinion of Liverpool FC and their fans prior to this game?
Did Celtic fans throw bananas at Mark Walters?
Are Celtic fans racist?
NOTTHEBUS on 30TH MAY 2022 12:50 PM
When I attended Seville I got t the ground a good hour before kick off.
Yhey had already run out of everything, incld water and annoyingly, programmes . After the game, a long trek back to the city as there was no buses and precious little taxi’s
I genuinely cant remeber a single complaint
—————
I genuinely can’t remember anything. 😀
The problem had nothing to do with fans without tickets – the gates were closed/locked, so whether you had a ticket or not was irrelevant!
We watched it all live on Spanish TV because they were parked right beside Gate Z (hmmm …)
The gates remained closed with thousands queueing/waiting peacefully outside until 9:05pm when some fans started climbing over it in desparation! – and then and only then did it finally open! And it wasn’t until 9:20 until the queue finally started moving.
The night before and morning of the game there were tv shots of Liverpool and Madrid fans chilled enjoying themselves with No trouble whasoever – a complete contrast to the week before in Sevilla with constant street battles, where incidently Sevco fans received a real battering, something I’m sure they’re not really used to as they’re usually dishing it out.
There’s lazy policing and there’s also lazy journalism with the fans being blamed for all the problems when the UEFA organisation was entirely at fault.
Good poll on BBC at the minute Re greatest team of all time.
Celtic doing well on 15% of votes.
I know it goes against the grain to look at BBC sport but every vote counts !
NOTTHEBUS on 30TH MAY 2022 12:50 PM
When I attended Seville I got t the ground a good hour before kick off.
Yhey had already run out of everything, incld water and annoyingly, programmes . After the game, a long trek back to the city as there was no buses and precious little taxi’s
I genuinely cant remeber a single complaint
——-
Same.
Good afternoon all from Jamaica Street.
Often wonder, when there is a risk of crushing, would everyone sitting down help? Assuming not trying to flee from fire, for example.
Ernie – I know this because I seen the videos of Liverpool supporters rushing turnstiles, fighting stewards and climbing fencing to gain entry to the ground. In the process doing their own fans with legitimate tickets out of their seats because the French police wisely decided to close sections when capacity was reached.
I understand the frustration of fans left outside with valid tickets, but they should be calling out their own for that – not blaming the French.
French interior ministry and French sports ministry have said the problems stemmed from unlawful entry to the stadium by Liverpool supporters.
Now it may be that there’s a multi governmental department conspiracy involving police and private security firms to tarnish Liverpool fans but if that’s the case, then it also involves Greek officials because the same thing happened in 2007.
https://metro.co.uk/2007/05/24/uefa-liverpool-fans-to-blame-for-ticket-chaos-400126/amp/
As for my opinion on Liverpool, I have none. I just think some examination of their behaviour would be more helpful in ensuring there’s no repeat. The lessons of 2007 were not taken on board. Let’s hope Liverpool deal with this now to avoid any repeats.
Ernie
I was not at the match in Paris on Saturday but 2 of my family were ( Madrid end ) and 3 friends ( Liverpool end ) . The Madrid ones had no issues and felt it was run perfectly well. They were worried as to the delay pre kick off and felt that was why the catering facilities were over run. They were actually moaning about the prices which I thought funny given how much they paid for their tickets. The Liverpool friends were livid. Not just with the authorities, but with the Liverpool fans themselves as this was the main catalyst. The feeling was that many had no tickets and were trying to get in and their view was that only a few fakes. They also felt folk not used to the ticket activation system was causing delays All of these 5 are used to attending sporting events around the world. None are what I would call ‘hardcore’ football fans but for me it was interesting to hear their different experiences.
I can’t really understand why only the Liverpool end would have fake tickets and punters trying to get in with no tickets ? Although there does appear to be previous from their fans in this regard.
Yes for me the banana throwing clown was a racist and sadly many were. Education has partially dealt with the issue but as with all clubs there is always scope to improve.
AN DÚN on 30TH MAY 2022 1:24 PM
Ernie – I know this because I seen the videos
###
Post the links.
BURNLEY78 on 30TH MAY 2022 1:27 PM
There should be an outer cordon to check for tickets (fake or not) . No one without a ticket should be near the turnstiles. If that happened that’s a failure by the organisers.
How many of us on this site have gained access to a game we didn’t have a valid ticket for ?
“The police actions in Paris on Saturday evening did not happen spontaneously. Rioting has been a growing problem in French football since the return of crowds, culminating in an out of control pitch invasion by Saint Etienne fans last night”
It’s not as if the French police had to reference the St Etienne game to profile the behaviour of English football fans, the English leagues have seen three pitch invasions of their own over the past couple of weeks. One of which resulted in a player being assaulted.
GREENPINATA on 30TH MAY 2022 1:46 PM
How many of us on this site have gained access to a game we didn’t have a valid ticket for ?
###
Or tried to?
GREENPINATA,
There were plenty of ours who got in without tickets in Seville. I had one and never got near my seat. There were many sitting in the aisles in the section.
GREENPINATA on 30TH MAY 2022 1:06 PM
NOTTHEBUS on 30TH MAY 2022 12:50 PM
When I attended Seville I got t the ground a good hour before kick off
Yhey had already run out of everything, incld water and annoyingly, programmes . After the game, a long trek back to the city as there was no buses and precious little taxi’
I genuinely cant remeber a single complaint
—————
I genuinely can’t remember anything. 😀
_______________________________________________________________________________________
I did get a programme and a drink, albeit outside I think there was a van giving out Irn Bru, I took 2 cans just as well as we sat in our bus for 3 hours waiting to leave post match I remembered that I had put the programme under my seat during the game! Defeated, knackered, dehydrated and without the programme!
Another hun statement about Sevilla on Videocelts. Must be something really bad coming down the ole shitepipe.
From what I can gather, there were outer ticket checking points, but it involved approaching underpasses and was manned (and womanned) by a relatively small number of ordinary stewards, (not unlike those at Wembley last summer). The result of which, even early doors, caused a huge build up, in one area at least, of Liverpool supporters waiting, not to get in, but just to enable said stewards look at their tickets, while unable to distinguish any that were fake. Many approaching supporters, (and I personally would avoid any kind of underpass scenario, see Celtic Park Sept 2018) decided to find alternative routes, not surprising since the checking system did not mean you would get into the stadium. And don’t forget the stadium was around six miles from the Liverpool fan zone. Not the only factor of course (closing gates, turnstiles etc) but one which contributed to an ongoing situation the authorities never fully regained complete control of, and also one where the French National Police deemed could be resolved by tear gas, pepper spray and hitting supporters with batons. Might not have been so cavalier had they been up against Les Gilet Jaunes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61311898
We are now third in the Table with 16% of the vote. As a result, no detentions will be handed out but it would be good if more people voted in the link above.
Crowd dynamics — discuss?
Chancing it / Brass necking it …
I’m sure we have all been there.
Add in rampant individualism / overgrown sense of entitlement / coked up young team — trouble this way comes in spades.
EUFA hand out half the tickets to its “family” — hangers on / blazers / sponsors / spivs.
The tickets will become available but at a huge mark up on the black market.
Cue carnage with everybody out for themselves and who cares about the rest?
The curse of Thatcher in all its glory — red in tooth and claw.
BoJo gets away with it so why not me …
Immaturity plays a part.
Reckless stupidity plays a part.
Rage against authority plays a part.
Most grow out of it but not all unfortunately.
Closer to home we have the overcrowding in the Standing Section.
Been growing over the season and at some point someone will get hurt.
We need to sort it out but I fear that the determination is just not there.
My only experience of French crowd control in Paris was in 1998, the night before the opening game of the WC; Scotland vs the Yellow Cowdenbeaths
Loads of different nationalities out and about and great craic.
My wife and I were heading for the Auld Alliance, through the Champs Elysee and realised after a while that a big bottle neck and crowd had suddenly formed.
This was due to barriers on either side, forming a narrow tunnel and mounted police and tooled up Gendarmes blocking the far end.
At first i was worried about getting round this and then i noticed a lot of local youths of North African descent up top chucking a few missiles and goading the police.
I was well aware of the relationship between these two factions and my Spidey sense kicked in.
I told my wife we need to bolt and I lifted her over a barrier and closely followed.
i was just over when the police charged , causing a a crush, panic and general carnage to innocent Scotland fans
She was pretty scared. Couldn’t find a decent route to the pub so we went in the nearest one in quiet square and had a nice evening with the Mexicans and some bewildered US tourists. Pub was mobbed apparently so we would not have got in anyway and we missed the Collymore/Ulrika incident
When I saw the actions of the police on Saturday and also the financially disadvantaged locals; i was not surprised. Major societal issues in that town
is there over crowding in the standing section ? anyone bear witness to this ?
GREENPINATA
I recall in the late 70’s trying to climb over the turnstiles at Partick. Was too pished fell over, didn’t get in, think we won handsomely too😱😵
Yeti @ 2.32
The pictures do not lie.
The density in parts of the area matches the Jungle when P/head had a crowd of 45K plus.
Sea of heads with no standing individuals discernible is not safe standing.
There was huge overcrowding in the standing section this season.
It needs to be looked at and stopped.