There’s a wee lesson for Ronny Delia in not conceding ground too quickly after the final whistle. On first pass, TV pictures suggested Dedryck Boyata failed to make contact with the ball at Hamilton on Friday, it was only when Ronny saw pictures from the opposite angle, that he realised the player timed his challenge to the inch.
Unfortunately, this was after the manager’s post-match TV appearance, when he accepted the referees decision. No matter if you’ve seen an incident or not, it’s better to be circumspect than to dive in with a definitive comment immediately after a game. Whatever the outcome of Boyata’s appeal, at least referee Craig Thomson can be absolved from blame for making the same mistake as Ronny Deila.
There’s a big midweek card coming up in the Premiership. I’m hoping Hearts find form tonight against Inverness. If they win they are as close to Aberdeen (6 points, with same games played) as the Dons are to Celtic, with a better goal difference too. Aberdeen and Hearts have to play each other twice before the end of the season, my preference would be these games have a very competitive edge.
Speaking of Hearts, I was slightly uncomfortable with their statement regarding the racist abuse dished out to Kilmarnock player, Josh Magennis, “To clarify, this allegation does not involve the player’s colour, religion or sexuality”. Is there a pecking order of bigotry I’m not aware of which deems anti-Irish abuse a lesser-offence?
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If Davie Moyes is the answer then I dread to think what the question was.
Davie Moyes will get Celtic through the Champions League Qualifiers?
Aye Right Ye Are!!
The only manager of an EPL side never to get past the Qualifying Rounds,with a very strong Everton squad too, and he’d be a stick on to get a weaker Celtic side into the promised land?
Aye Right Ye Are!!
Deila is a dud,outside of Scotland, but Moyes sure aint the answer.
Eurochamps.
Going tomorrow night & looking forward to it. Sunday. Unlikely.Many reasons.
First & foremost. Daryl Broadfoot.
The arrogance he displayed on the recent SFM article where he basically stated that football integrity , proper governance etc would only be an important issue if fans stopped attending games due to a lack of the basic functions that he and his ilk are handsomely paid to provide.
They don’t even hide it .
I didn’t attend the Ross County semi after I read the above. I felt guilty.
Guilt verses anger at being laughed at.
So rightly or wrongly the Scottish or League cups are now a no go zone for moi.
I’ll join my pals in the pub.
Many concerns over team tactics and formations,but until Ronny changes (unlikely) or departs I will still support him.
Hoping that the tax case appeal is bombed out which may bring a new focus.
Otherwise Res12 may be the only chance for change.
Like yourself I watched at least a decade of bent fitba in Scotland.
Won’t be fooled again CSC. HH
BBC Scotland tell us the hearts fan made a ‘xenophobic comment’. Or was it zenophobic?
Had he watched Alien the night before and was averse to zenomorphs?
In fact, now that i think about it, that defence will get him of fin front of an Edinburgh jury…
I will defo renew my ST this year because of my love of Celtic. Games against the soosiders next season??? No way will I attend CP while the bigotfest are in attendance. Only my opinion.
Oops, HH
Eurochamps
I will be at both games like yourself.
Regarding attendances hate to say it but I think a fair few are awaiting the return of the Huns
On Yonder Hill,there stood a Dookit
Its no there noo,cos some c**t Took it
LawellwouldsellallthebestpigeonsCSC
Good evening friends
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14310631.Scotland_s_top_historian_joined_by_Celtic_FC_and_public_figures_in_calling_for_repeal_of_controversial_football_laws/?ref=mr&lp=1
Comments particularly interesting.
Evening Timland from a cold hun free mountain valley.
“On the terracing at the Dalmornock end on Saturday there was congregated a gang, thousands strong, including the dregs and scourings of filthy slumdom, unwashed yahoos, jailbirds, night hawks, won’t-works, ‘burroo barnacles’, and pavement pirates, all, or nearly all, in the scarecrow stage of verminous trampdom. This ragged army of insantitary pests was lavishly provided with orange and blue remnants, and these were flaunted in challenge as the football tide flowed this way or that. Practically with out cessation for ninety minutes or more, the vagabond scum kept up a strident howl of the ‘Boyne Water’ chorus. Nothing so designedly provoking, so maliciously insulting, or so beastially ignorant has ever been witnessed even in the wildest exhibitions of Glasgow Orange bigotry…..Blatantly filthy language of the lowest criminal type assailed the shocked ears of decent onlookers. There was no getting away from it, chanted as it was by thousands of voices in bedlamite yells. The stentorian use of filthy language is a crime against the law of the land. Policemen lined the track and listened to the hooligan uproar, yet nothing was done to stop it. The scandal was renewed with increased violence in London Road after the match. Is it possible the blue mob can do just anything and get away with it? Prompt official steps were taken to suppress and prosecute the green brake-club lads who dared to sing ‘The Dear Little Shamrock’ in Paisley Road. Yet thousands of foul-mouthed and blasphemous Orange ruffians are free to run amok over the East End of Glasgow. How do you account for it?”
Won’t be long now, the suits will be rubbing their hands with glee.
SANDMAN
Thanks!
Your poetry is as poor as your geography. Norway, where RD has been successful, is outwith Scotland.
Macjay
I can’t access the comments is there any chance you could copy and paste them please?
Heading out so hopefully I’ll pick up later.
AIden
The huns are dead. .. there’s a good chance sevco will be in the top tier for the first time in their very short history
Davie Moyes never won anything at Everton and has won nothing as a manager since his solitary lower league title with Preston nearly 20 years ago. He escaped relegation with Everton on the final day of the season on one occasion. He got to a Champions League slot once and got beat in the qualifiers by Villarreal. Qualified regularly for the Europa which seems to be what his reputation is built on. An average record in the Europa with a budget many, many times that of Celtic with no domestic competition drag back. Poisoned chalice at Man U, absolutely. Embarrassed in Spain.
No thanks. We could do with his PR people though.
Re Friday’s game at Hamilton. Hasn’t been commented on much but I was impressed (as well as amazed) at the second penalty Thomson gave us.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I know the cheating hun for what he is…………but…………
The carry on at corners and free kicks is getting beyond a joke. Referees usually do nothing or take the easy way out by penalising the attacking team.
That last time we played Juventus we could have had 3 or 4 penalties for our players getting held and manhandled in the box.
Glad to see somebody clamping down on it, even if it is one of the most unlikely refs!
Just bought my ticket for Sunday. Given that the top tier is (surprisingly?) open I will, for the first time, be sitting in the front row, upper tier, just along from the half way line. Must remember not to jump too high at the goals.
If any CQNrs fancy forming a clique-for-a-day I’m in 405, Row A, seat 11. Decent chance of getting my face on the telly too (ala HT).
Will need to stop drinking a wee bit earlier than usual on Saturday evening / Sunday morning ;-)
Nighty night. HH
Great wee Freudian from the current caller to Clyde – “after their Demonition to the lower leagues…”
onlyonwhilstIdothedishesCSC
Meant to say, back to lurking. HH
Back to lurking. HH
Apols for the double post. A riddie if ever I had one. HH
So is it before or after Michael O’Neill that Moyes comes in?
Glendalytonsils
No,no,no.
Thomson had no option after warning the player prior to the corner being taken.
The player then rugby tackled Lustig and was not shown a second yellow.
The player was then given a warning that the next foul he was off, wouldn’t it be great if the refs allowed Celtic players away with a booking offence whilst on a yellow leaving the player and management team to take action to allow 11 players to remain on the park?
Just another example of Thomsons cheating, which was proven again today by Boyatas red card rescinded.
How many papers had “ex celt wanted for murder” type stories on the front page today?
Was there a cracked crest as well?
glendastonsils,
i think thomson was embarrassed into giving it because of
the shennanigans at ross counties 2nd goal in the semi.
either that or somebody told him at ht he had made a pigs ear
of boyatas sending off!!
Hamilton.
That`s a lot of homework,mate.
Herald comments :
All those years of whining about sectarianism in football, then when a Scottish Govt. finally summons the courage to do something about it all Hell breaks loose.
It is a plain fact that the Celtic support did not want an end to sectarian songs being sung at football grounds.
They only wanted an end to sectarian songs being sung by Rangers fans at football grounds.
Since the same law affected them – something they clearly didn’t anticipate – they have never stopped moaning about it.
Last edited: 7:22pm Tue 1 Mar 16
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peter kelly Replying John Henry 8:51am Tue 1 Mar 16
This was nothing to do with sectarianism, the word sectarianism does not appear anywhere within the Act. And, again, this tiresome, and totally wrong, claim that this was an Act wanted by Celtic supporters. Celtic supporters associations, individual Celtic supporters, and Celtic FC, spoke out against the Act whilst at the consultation stage, as did Tom Devine, before the Justice Committee of the Parliament.
This is as bad and as dangerous piece of legislation ever introduced to the Scottish Parliament, it has impacted on many innocent football supporters, has been described as ‘mince’ by one Sherriff, has a ridiculously low conviction rate and has seen fans of many Scottish clubs charged.
So why was it introduced by the SNP Government? Well, perhaps, in the words of the then Convener of the SNP led Justice Committee, it was about ‘evening things up’!
There was legislation already in place that could have dealt with sectarianism, there was no need for this Act.
Last edited: 7:09pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Sometimes I agree with kevj’s posts
Other times I don’t
Sometimes I agree neganons posts
Other times I don’t
Sometimes I think Ronny should go
Other times I don’t….
Huns are died tho
Poetry’s no
Kikinthenakas
Graham McKay Replying peter kelly 11:44am Tue 1 Mar 16
What outcome did the Celtic supporters that went running to a foreign government to make a complaint about “offensive singing” at Ibrox expect when that foreign government made a formal complaint to our Government? Only when they found out that it could also affect them did they turn against it. Then, of course, they set up that exclusive (sectarian?) organisation called FAC.
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peter kelly Replying Graham McKay 12:09pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Ok, what Celtic supporters went running to a foreign Government? You should be able to name them.
And what sort of society do we have where a foreign Government has to become involved?
There was no desire, no request, no need for this legislation.
Are you claiming that FAC is sectarian? In what way is it exclusive?
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James Fyfe Replying peter kelly 3:21pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Peter you are completely deluded if you tell yourself that Celtic fans haven’t been writing to authorities for decades complaining about songs being sung of course they have.
When this bill came in not a word was said by Celtic or their fans in fact there was much rejoicing at them thinking it didn’t apply to them, then they got kettled on London road one morning and it’s all changed from then on in
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Sid
Was dedryck’ s card rescinded? I just assumed he was cleared to play till appeal heard.
Replying James Fyfe 4:15pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Caravan park comment, bananas too.
You are deluded but by blight, ignorance and sheer indoctrination.
You are the root cause, the blight will never disappear until eyes are opened, educated and parental guidance ignored. Step up to mark and leave your baggage behind.
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Andrew Gibson Replying peter kelly 1:22pm Tue 1 Mar 16
If you follow this link you will see the attitude of I think it is fair to say most CSC’s at the time. Basically we agree in principal with the Bill, but we want clarity as IRA songs should not be considered as offensive songs. All the talk at the time was of producing a list of proscribed songs in the Act which was resisted by the Government. I am not sure CSC’s ‘spoke out against the Act’ as such.
http://www.scottish.
parliament.uk/S4_Jus
ticeCommittee/Inquir
ies/OB45._Billingry_
Celtic_Supporters_Cl
ub.pdf
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davie roberts Replying Andrew Gibson 2:46pm Tue 1 Mar 16
@Andrew
” IRA songs should not be considered as offensive songs “.
There you have it in a nutshell as to why Celtic fans aren’t taken seriously by anyone.
Songs and chants in celebration of sectarian anti-Protestant IRA death squads should be permitted at football grounds ?
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sid on 1st March 2016 7:34 pm
Still amazed that Thomson took action ,even though the wrestling was blatant.
I think Boyata’s red has been appealed not rescinded. Sure I read the case would be heard on Thursday.
Sid
I’ve not read that boyatas red card is rescinded ( yet )
Only that celtic have appealed so he’s free to play tomorrow and until the appeal is heard
Jim Duddy Replying davie roberts 4:18pm Tue 1 Mar 16
@Alf/Jane/George/Dav
ie
Which nutshell do you share? Which are your favoured songs – each of you must have a favourite. Pray tell the masses your top 4.
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davie roberts Replying Jim Duddy 4:33pm Tue 1 Mar 16
@Jim
Do you think songs celebrating sectarian anti-Protestant IRA death squads should be permitted at football grounds ?
Its not too difficult.
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Jim Duddy Replying davie roberts 4:44pm Tue 1 Mar 16
@4 heads
Which are your favourite 4? All 4 of you seem to have a tail to tell, name 4.
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davie roberts Replying Jim Duddy 4:47pm Tue 1 Mar 16
@Jim
Poor old Jim.
Finally stuck for words.
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Jim Duddy Replying davie roberts 4:57pm Tue 1 Mar 16
@jane
Do you have a favourite 4?
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Jim Duddy Replying davie roberts 7:21pm Tue 1 Mar 16
@George
Congratulations – I had your extended family down as 3 but 88, well done. Should amount to at least 1 watt brightness amongst the whole crew.
Make it 89 – one for me too, might help clear the 1 watt bulb hurdle.
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Jim Duddy Replying John Henry 2:03pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Indeed, you are quiet correct and the long list called out are all wrong.
Do you want an end to sectarian songs sung by The Rangers fans? Not just at football ground!
I’ll push the boat out and back you to the hilt. Good egg syndrome, indeed.
If you want it ended I do too. How is that for breaking the divide – no more sectarian songs sung by The Rangers fan and you/me agree. Catalyst for wiping this bile from Scotland.
Last edited: 3:47pm Tue 1 Mar 16
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Thomas Donnelly Replying John Henry 3:37pm Tue 1 Mar 16
MR JOHN HENRY := You are nothing but an ignorant man when it comes to
the above subject sectarianism in football:= Sir sectarianism is a Scottish
problem all over the country and someone should tell the SNP in Holyrood
or are they just turning a blind eye to it as they have done for the last 400
centauries :=
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Chic Harden 5:17am Tue 1 Mar 16
John – you are so wide of the mark there that it should be embarrassing. Should be.
It has taken a while and a lone furrow ploughed – but at last everyone has cottoned on and joined in. Apart from John Henry.
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Alan Roberts Replying Chic Harden 6:34am Tue 1 Mar 16
He is bang on the money Chic and to suggest otherwise is to seek to rewrite the recent past. Celtic fans supported the Bill and now oppose the Act. So did the likes of Cosgrove when it was imagined that this would just be an Act of Parliment to see Rangers fans singing the Billy boys get 5 years in jail. Now it dawns on them that some of their stuff is not seen as just jolly japes but offensive all the weight of the toe curling right on fools has been put behind seeing it repealed and they will try to come up with something else to target Rangers fans only.
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John McMahon Replying Chic Harden 6:50am Tue 1 Mar 16
no he isn’t. He’s 100% spot on but don’t let that stop you rewriting what actually happened
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John Henry Replying Chic Harden 7:24am Tue 1 Mar 16
No Chic, disagreeing with you doesn’t mean I’m ‘wide of the mark’ at all.
You are a predictable and typically blinkered Celtic fan, and I am not in the least surprised that you are against this law.
As a football fan I have zero problem with this law.
It’s about time an attempt was made to eradicate anti-social songs from Scottish football.
I applaud the Scottish Govt. for trying to do so.
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Jim Duddy Replying John Henry 4:24pm Tue 1 Mar 16
On the money. Let’s outlaw all sectarian songs sung by The Rangers fans – do you think this would be a good idea, would work?
I’ll give you as much backing as I can to eliminate this bile undercurrent. What do you think? Let’s set an example Scotland can be proud of, pioneers leading the way and everyone can follow follow. Make the peepul proud.
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Paul Cochrane 6:33am Tue 1 Mar 16
Well done one and all. A stupidly drafted law (according to lawyers and judges) with far too much latitude for rogue cops to generate funding and arrests for no reasons. We all want an end to sectarianism at all levels but what has a Palestinian flag, an anti-police banner and libertarian t-shirts have to do with sectarianism. Yet they all led to detention. Protest the law and you get settled and beat up by police who then have their evidence rejected by the bench as dodgy. Under this law, cases take longer to call (while the fan is banned) and have a terrible conviction rate due to the stupidity inherent in it.
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Andrew McMillan 6:40am Tue 1 Mar 16
Another dozen books ! lol…… you have got to admire the salesmanship.
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John McLean 6:59am Tue 1 Mar 16
The SNP has a way of reacting, on occasions, to public opinion, that then turns out to be little more than a foolish political decision. Also, there has been undoubtably an agenda – to further criminalise as many people as humanly possible by means of illegal unwarranted searches on a scale unheard of in our country. The formation of one singular police force, now run by an unknown man to Scottish people, ensconced in a castle (rent free) whilst his family reside in his english home, does not exactly install a sense of freedom and liberty. Frankly, the SNP in respect of law and order issues are a dismal failure and the yard stick of all yard sticks began and ended with the triumphant release of a mass murdering terrorist.
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brian watters Replying John McLean 12:02pm Tue 1 Mar 16
You probably didnt think of this in your blind hatred for anything the SNP does but just maybe their agenda has been to cut crime ?
why would someone be criminalised due to being searched unless they were carrying something illegal , like a knife ?
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Fraser Roberts 7:01am Tue 1 Mar 16
When I heard about this law I was convinced that the Scottish Parliament had taken leave of its senses.
A parliament which passes a law against offensive behaviour is a danger to its people. No concept of the idea attributed to Voltaire around not agreeing with what others say but defending their right to say it
Lots of things cause me offense but I would hate to live in a society where that gets someone arrested.
Then to give the police station sole discretion as to what gets you arrested takes you a long way down a very slippery slope
And a word to the 4th estate- it’s not an “anti- bigotry” law at all. It’s an anti offensiveness law. That’s quite a different thing
It should be repealed ASAP. It should never have been enacted in the first place.
Last edited: 7:13pm Tue 1 Mar 16
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Bruce Taylor 7:38am Tue 1 Mar 16
I am a football fan.
The edge that is the tribalism of football is what makes it very exciting, in the build up to a big match and in watching a big match. There is nothing quite like a Rangers vs. Celtic match in terms of that sheer edge.
Scottish society, particularly in the West of Scotland is a sectarian culture. People who are not overtly sectarian when in safe company think in terms of which side of the divide from which they argue their logic.
The group who are the subject of this article are clearly heavyweight and have an opinion.
The question is; do we want to live in a future in which a football match is an exciting occasion with a real edge but not undermined by a hatred that can easily overspill into violence, injury and on occasion death? This is not to mention social media attacks on individuals and their families.
If the act of law is not the right way then before we consider it’s removal there should be a positive alternative that continues to address the issue.
In the early days of the history of both Rangers and Celtic there did not exist the hatred that is evident in so much of which is written by contributors to this paper and elsewhere.
I will continue to follow my team and enjoy the friendship of people who I know who follow our opponents. I will continue to enjoy match day and everything that goes with it. In the end it is a football match.
Scottish culture is a bigger matter, Scotland needs to overcome sectarianism to unite people. Sectarianism divides Scottish people.
Bruce Taylor
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Bruce Taylor 9:09am Tue 1 Mar 16
In addition to my earlier comments.
The lessons of history are that it will take time for sectarianism to pass into history.
With regard to the article in the paper I would say that sectarianism is the status quo.
It is easier always to defend the status quo, which is what I believe the position of the group behind the article set out to do.
It is more difficult and requires a lot of people to speak out against sectarianism if it is to be quickly banished into history and be replaced by a Rangers vs Celtic or Hearts vs. Hibs matches etc., i.e. football matches defined by edge and excitement and differences of opinion argued without malice or resort to events which took place a long time ago.
Bruce Taylor
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Andrew Gibson Replying Bruce Taylor 1:38pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Bruce is the lesson of history not that sectarianism never passes into history, the sects just change?
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Bruce Taylor Replying Andrew Gibson 3:59pm Tue 1 Mar 16
A good thought, probably reality, but there is always hope for a brighter future………..if we can get more of the contributors onboard?
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James Brown 9:16am Tue 1 Mar 16
Imagine the scene next season if this law is repealed and it is the first Old Firm match. It is a sell-out with more Irish and British flags on display than ever before. The build-up to kick-off is widespread singing of Republic songs on one side and “Up to our knees in ****** blood” etc. on the other.
During the game an infield incident triggers a riot.
What will the ‘country’s leading historian’ and all the other ‘experts’ say then?
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peter kelly Replying James Brown 9:56am Tue 1 Mar 16
What ‘Republic’ songs do you mean James?
As for singing about being up to knees in ****** blood, well, you could have been charged for singing that prior to this Act being introduced, so no reason why you could not be charged under existing legislation once it is repealed.
As for flags, well, the union flag is the national flag of the UK, and the Irish flag is the flag of the UK only land border neighbour, a nation we have friendly relations with and a fellow member of the EU. I have no problems with any flags being waved at a football game. Why do you?
And prior to this Act, how many onfield incidents triggered a riot?
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James Fyfe Replying peter kelly 3:32pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Yea that’s right Peter in your world no republican songs are sung at Celtic matches James just forgot
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James Brown Replying peter kelly 4:43pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Peter I first attended Ibrox in the days of George Niven and George Young and have also been to numerous Old Firm games including the notorious Cup Final (when Danny McGrain scored the winner) which ended in a riot.
I know the score when it comes to chants and songs and I cringe when I hear them. Two I particularly remember are “I’m forever blowing bubbles” and “Paper Roses”. Oh, I’m mistaken, I heard them at Craven Cottage and Rugby Park!
For a while after that terrible riot the hatred and sectarianism seemed to have quietened down but in recent years it has got worse. We can’t go like this. Something has to be done.
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Paul Gillies 9:45am Tue 1 Mar 16
“Civil bans rather than criminal punishments”, this quote sums the problem up for me. Many in the judiciary will not criminalise a, say, hitherto ‘clean’ nineteen year old boy, just starting out in his life, for singing a song. A song whose offensive contents are debatable. The police, the enforcers, are often in the wrong in selecting the offender in the first place. SG must at least amend this hastily designed law to appeal to this weighty body of critics, who have their fingers on the pulse of Scottish Culture.
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Russell Mitchell 9:59am Tue 1 Mar 16
It is a story a day about retired historian Tom Devine who is launching a new book..
How can a leading proponent of Irish culture in Scotland speak out against the legislation designed to stamp out poor behaviour?
Who appointed him “pre eminent” ?
He does those around him a great disservice by jumping on bandwagons for his own personal aggrandisement.
I look forward to the tomorrows article “Sir Tom Devine slams Super Tuesday” and the weekend hot topic “Tom Devine warns on EU referendum impact on diaspora Scots working in EU”
I prefer “Story Bombing Tom Strikes Again”
Tom, you are over 70, retire with grace, please.
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Paul Brownsey Replying Russell Mitchell 12:55pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Yes, Tom, and don’t come on here expressing your views, either. Mr Mitchell has just declared that people over 70 are not allowed views.
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John Graham 10:32am Tue 1 Mar 16
Too many overlook the conception of this absurd and unworkable piece of legislation.
It was introduced after a game in which the incidents were all on the field of play or the touchline and was a total overreaction by a Sports Minister who admitted never having attended a football match and a government indulging in bandwaggon jumping.
The law is a bad law which is open to many differing interpretations, covers an area which existing laws were set up to deal with and is opposed by supporters of many clubs, not just Celtic.
One of the “justifications” for the imposition of the legislation was the extent of domestic violence which was claimed escalated after matches between Celtic & Rangers although actual numbers and outcomes of reported cases were never produced by the government or the media. Presumably the incidences of domestic violence have decreased since the matches ceased on a regular basis although there has been no reporting of this.
This Law should be judged dispassionately, what has it achieved since its inception and could the same results, if any, have been achieved by use of the existing laws?
We should remember that the most high profile case, involving Neil Lennon being attacked at Tynecastle, failed in the attempt to have the offender jailed for an offence under this Act,existing laws secured the conviction.
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Graham McKay Replying John Graham 11:27am Tue 1 Mar 16
The charge in the Lennon attack at Tynecastle was “assault aggravated by religious prejudice”, not the OBaF etc., Act. Wasn’t it in 2011, a year before the Act came into being?
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Jo Greenhorn Replying John Graham 1:44pm Tue 1 Mar 16
John
We normally don’t disagree but on this occasion we must. The law may need tweaked a bit but I support the aims of it.
Last edited: 7:25pm Tue 1 Mar 16
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John Graham Replying Jo Greenhorn 2:16pm Tue 1 Mar 16
No problem Jo,but I wonder where all those contending that it was necessary don’t deal in the facts;
ie what caused its introduction ?
why introduce a knee jerk reaction without thought or consultation?
why not examine the reasons the existing laws were considered insufficient?
domestic violence was the main reason given but where is the information, with actual numbers of prosecutions/convict
ions etc., to enable comparisons to be made.
what good is a law that can be interpreted in so many different ways ?
The example I gave of the incident at Tynecastle shows what happens when overzealous prosecutions occur and end up allowing lesser sentences to be received.
Supporters of many clubs are opposed to the Act and have been vocal on this site in expressing their opposition including the previous responder to my post.
If it is retained it needs so much tweaking, abolition is the better option.
Hope all well with you Jo.
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James Fyfe Replying John Graham 3:46pm Tue 1 Mar 16
John the police made a real mess of that case, the attack had nothing to do with sectarianism but they tagged it on just to make it stick, it failed miserably and the case more or less collapsed , that had nothing to do with the act being workable and all to do with the police trying to make it fit
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Caroline Collinson 11:47am Tue 1 Mar 16
It may not be perfect but at least the SNP had the balls to try to do something about the issue.
Labour simply shut their eyes and ears for decades – they didn’t want to risk losing any votes. So did the MSM – except when they could get a juicy headline to increase the sales.
Most football fans are fed up with the baggage of the “OF”.
Both sides are as bad as each other and are, quite frankly, pathetic and boring.
All they do is advertise their lack of imagination and originality – why can’t they compose something to sing that relates to their club and not some quasi-religious piece of guff about the “troubles” and beyond?
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anthony accorinti Replying Caroline Collinson 12:24pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Caroline Collinson wrote…
It may not be perfect but at least the SNP had the balls to try to do something about the issue.
Labour simply shut their eyes and ears for decades – they didn’t want to risk losing any votes. So did the MSM – except when they could get a juicy headline to increase the sales.
Most football fans are fed up with the baggage of the “OF”.
Both sides are as bad as each other and are, quite frankly, pathetic and boring.
All they do is advertise their lack of imagination and originality – why can’t they compose something to sing that relates to their club and not some quasi-religious piece of guff about the “troubles” and beyond?
Why should they alter the expression of their support just because u dont like it?It may come as something of a surprise but the world is composed of many different people and they do not all concur.To criminalise one section on the basis of their “offensiveness” is deeply illiberal and extremely dangerous not just to those criminalised but to us all.Unless of course we wish to unfairly malign one section of society while exempting ourselves from the standard applied however this would not appear to reflect our commitment to equality and tolerance.”Crimes of offensive behaviour”-dear god.
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Jo Greenhorn Replying anthony accorinti 1:43pm Tue 1 Mar 16
The world is indeed composed of different people…………..
…most decent people abhor bigotry.
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John Graham Replying Caroline Collinson 1:18pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Have you ever been to any football match or a Celtic v Rangers game Caroline?
What particular issue is it that you refer to ?
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Jo Greenhorn Replying John Graham 1:42pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Hi John
I’ve been to both Ibrox and Celtic Park and heard stuff I hated. I’ve also recounted above a couple of horrendous experiences when travelling home by train when OF supporters were going hammer and tongs at each other and there was no escape route for innocent bystanders. There was no escaping the stuff they were shouting at each other either. All linked to Ireland and Ulster…………fr
om “Scottish football fans”.
I’ve been to Anfield loads of times and seen the passion there and totally loved it. (In fact the anniversary of one magnificent game is approaching this Friday. 4 March 1981, King Kenny’s 30th birthday. A European night when we played CSKA Sofia and won 5-1. Souness scored three.) The old Kop was still there then and they sang as one, it was like a real choir and I was utterly mesmerised by it. Jings, I miss those days when we were winning everything!) I get that sort of passion. What I don’t get, and never will, is the other stuff some sections within both sides of the OF get passionate about. For, to me, it has no place in Scottish football and it taints it.
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ed mckinlay Replying Jo Greenhorn 2:07pm Tue 1 Mar 16
And the songs they sing about the Munich Air disaster, returned by United fans song about Hillsborough ?
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Jo Greenhorn Replying ed mckinlay 2:33pm Tue 1 Mar 16
I don’t sing those songs and neither are related to sectarianism or tribalism. Thanks.
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peter kelly Replying Jo Greenhorn 2:46pm Tue 1 Mar 16
The vast majority of Celtic fans don’t sing sectarian songs either Jo. And I am afraid that the Munich air song, sung by some Liverpool fans, is very much about tribalism.
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Jo Greenhorn Replying peter kelly 3:04pm Tue 1 Mar 16
And you avoid the issue here in Scotland, Peter. As experienced by me coming home on a train. Involving RANGERS AND CELTIC supporters. But, no, you don’t want to address that do you? You make me sick!
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James Fyfe Replying peter kelly 3:52pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Well Peter someone sings them, I wonder who it is, not the repeal mob is it?
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ed mckinlay Replying Jo Greenhorn 3:20pm Tue 1 Mar 16
If it’s not tribal, what is it.
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John Graham Replying Jo Greenhorn 2:32pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Hi Jo,
I responded to your other post before I saw this one.
I agree that no reasonable person wants to listen or see the stuff you refer to but the issue that caused the introduction of this Act was bad behaviour on the field and on the touchline by players & managers not the supporters.
Talk of a ” Night of shame” was way over the top and politically inspired, nothing to do with football but all to do with political opportunism.
You would be better directing your ire at those who seek the return of the status quo in Scottish football rather than looking to move forward and congratulating those clubs that have improved in the last three years.
I was at CP when we played Leeds, under David O’Leary, and, along with the rest of the Celtic support, was disgusted when Leeds fans sang their songs about the Muinich disaster which had absolutely nothing to do with the game.
As Ed point out below, there are many examples around the UK as a whole and it was significant that the ST report on Fulham v Middlesbrough last Saturday saw fit to mention that the considerable support from the away fans contained no foul language or abusive chants.
You will be well aware of what happens on this site when, rather than discuss the points raised by an article the comments immediately divide into opinions based on which team is supported.
It’s something ingrained in the physche of too many in Scotland and no inadequate law will change it apparently.
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Caroline Collinson Replying John Graham 4:50pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Nice misogynist question at the beginning John.
I am to be found regularly in the East stand at Easter Road and will be at Hampden next Sunday sitting in the East End, commonly known as the “Celtic End”. I will be accompanied by my two young girls (and the rest of my family) but you can rest assured if the final was against either side of the OF then the two girls would not be attending.
I have never been to an OF game and have no intention of doing so as I don’t support either side.
The particular issue I was referring to was the scourge of Sectarianism in this country.
The extent of this cancer was mostly unknown to me when I was brought up in the Borders but since moving to West Lothian I have certainly had my eyes opened.
One last point. I will be amongst thousands of others proudly wearing the Irish harp on our chests (it’s part of the badge) BUT as a Scottish football team – not an Irish one.
Just like Inter Milan do not claim to be an English team but they do acknowledge their history.
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John Graham Replying Caroline Collinson 7:08pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Not misogynist at all Caroline, I just wanted to establish whether your knowledge was obtained first hand or through the media, thank you for clarifying that.
As a regular at Easter Road you will be familiar with much of the stuff that is chanted and sung at football matches, some funny, some rude, some sectarian and I assume you attend games v Celtic or Rangers there although probably not with your daughters.
If you read my post to Jo, above,you will note that we agree regarding sectarianism in Scotland,it’s a curse that can only be eradicated by the people who continue to act in this manner.
Celtic are also a Scottish club with Irish roots and I don’t see anything wrong with acknowledging that history.
Apologies again if you thought I was being misogynist, never.
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brian watters 12:17pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Id say if Scottish football wants to market it’s games internationally and show Scotland in a civilsed and sporting light then this legislation needs to stay in place at least for a season or two until fans of the worst offending clubs can prove they are mature enough to regulate themselves. I pretty much doubt they would do so now , they would relish the law being repealed and belt out the “old songs” with renewed venom. I for one dont wish the rest of the worlds opinion of Scotland to be based on a 90 minute sectarian hate fest beamed live on Sky TV . The increasingly bitter and confrontational atmosphere at those Old Firm games just prior to Rangers demotion was poisonous , vicious and was stoked up by TV companies intent on having more than just a football game to report on.
Sadly the 90 minute bigots in this country seem to have a lot of support from people who should know better.
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anthony accorinti Replying brian watters 12:34pm Tue 1 Mar 16
brian watters wrote…
Id say if Scottish football wants to market it’s games internationally and show Scotland in a civilsed and sporting light then this legislation needs to stay in place at least for a season or two until fans of the worst offending clubs can prove they are mature enough to regulate themselves. I pretty much doubt they would do so now , they would relish the law being repealed and belt out the öld songs” with renewed venom. I for one dont wish the rest of the worlds opinion of Scotland to be based on a 90 minute sectarian hate fest . The increasingly bitter and confrontational atmosphere at Old Firm games prior to Rangers demotion was poisonous , vicious and was stoked up by TV companies intent on having more than just a football game to report on.
Sadly the 90 minute bigots in this country seem to have a lot of support from people who should know better.
I have many friends in Argentina,some of whom have personal experience of serious political repression,and they are quite frankly amazed at this law.Buenos Aires of course has Boca V River Plate as their rivalry,amongst others,and a great deal of the behaviour at these games really puts the OF in the shade however all those I know regard this law as an attack on freedom and a quite astounding development in what they consider to be a mature democracy.Ive lost count of the times Ive tried to explain this law only to be met with total puzzlement.That,at least in Buenos Aires,is how this law is viewed abroad.
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Jo Greenhorn Replying anthony accorinti 1:22pm Tue 1 Mar 16
“An attack on freedom.”
Freedom? Whose freedom?
You want these people to have the “freedom” to shout and sing their vile offensive nonsense in public? What about the freedom of others to get on with their day in peace? Ever been trapped on a train with a shower from each side hurling their bile at each other while other ordinary passengers cowered and just kept their heads down for fear of being singled out for personal abuse? That sort of freedom? I’ve witnessed that sort of stuff.
I also witnessed an all out brawl on a train coming home from Glasgow between Rangers and Celtic supporters and I’ve never been so scared in my life. Again the usual slogans were being shouted. Passengers had all to run to one end of the carriage because we couldn’t get out! Once Police finally boarded and we were let off I suffered in humiliation of throwing up on a station platform from sheer nerves and terror. There were no benches and I was on my knees because I was shaking so much I couldn’t even stand up. There were children screaming and mothers trying to calm them.
But I’m sure they’re mighty glad to have people on their side to claim they’re being “demonised” and denied their “human rights” to shout their bigoted bile from the rooftops whenever they like.
There are many great rivalries in the game of football. I support Liverpool and when they play a certain team from Manchester I get hyped up, definitely. But there is no sectarianism attached, no tribal hatred and no out and out bigotry. Celtic and Rangers, on the other hand, too often bring all that other filthy stuff, including Irish politics, to the table and it stinks. That isn’t being a football fan, it’s, for too many, about something else altogether. There are many decent supporters on both sides. They are the ones who should be calling out those who get them a bad name . The Clubs should be calling them out as well. And all decent Scots should be saying we’ve had it with them too.
Get real Anthony. Scotland has better things to think about. I love the game of football but I despise the section on each side of the Old Firm that shame us all. They are not “football fans”.
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David Callaghan 12:26pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Fed up reading either 1. the clueless views of non-football fans or 2. The orange political lying that the act had something to do with Celtic fans This lot also seem to want to cling on to fac being celti fans to the point they cannot even debate the subject through colour blindness
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John Mercer Replying David Callaghan 2:15pm Tue 1 Mar 16
David,
The issue of who campaigned to get the law has nothing to do with whether or not the law should now be repealed.
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ed mckinlay Replying David Callaghan 3:10pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Deluded or denial either way you’re wrong. The Famine song (a light hearted mocking of Celtic fans uber love all things ROI) was the catalyst of this law.
Had Celtic won this match (LCF), this law would never have happened. They lost and all hell broke loose, the famine song soon became the way to channel their rage.
Pet politician raising it in the HOC, complaints made to the Irish Embassy in Edinburgh, and Celtic supporting MSP’s raising it in the Scottish Parliament.
Make no mistake Celtic fans caused this, and at first had no objections to it, as initially it strangely appeared to focus on Rangers fans.
After what appeared to be a law only for Rangers fans, Celtic fans began to be arrested.
Suddenly, this law was outrageous, didn’t they know it wasn’t meant to include ” Orange B*stards” and songs glorifying terrorists. Enter the (C)FAC to fight for the right to worship terrorists and call Rangers fans OB’s.
You couldn’t make it up !
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Thomas Egan Replying ed mckinlay 3:43pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Some first class revisionism there. Well done.
As for light-hearted mocking (i.e. anti-Irish racism), maybe you could also entreat Jewish people to go home now that WW2 is finished, try asking people of Chinese descent to return to Asia now that the Boxer Rebellion is over and you could always implore people of Indian descent to repatriate now that the Raj is finished
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ed mckinlay Replying Thomas Egan 4:39pm Tue 1 Mar 16
No revisionism, that appears to be exclusive to Celtic fans. Are you denying that Celtic fans complaining about the famine song was the catalyst of the OBaF act, if so I won’t waste my time, as it’s clear the truth doesn’t sit well with Celtic fans, and they’re no strangers to inventing history.
As to anti-Irish racism, as the vast majority of Irish people are Caucasian as are the Rangers support it makes no sense, maybe it’s added to make it appear more serious.
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davie roberts Replying ed mckinlay 4:24pm Tue 1 Mar 16
@ed mckinlay
Spot on.
A satirical song by Rangers fans mocking Celtic fans, who clearly couldn’t handle it was spun into a bizarre claim of ” anti-Irish racism ” ?
It was a nonsense that dragged in a foreign Government to force Holyrood to enact this pernicious legislation.
The same Celtic fans who sing Go On Home British Soldiers whimpering about ” racism ” ?
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James Fyfe Replying David Callaghan 4:00pm Tue 1 Mar 16
David you have suddenly introduced “orange political lying “into the equation, now I’d love to know after so many comments these words have never been used.
So if there was much complaints and debate from Celtic and their fans before the act came out you will be able to show us or point us to them, I doubt if you can though
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John Morrison 12:28pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Football clubs hide behind this legislation and make no efforts to eradicate unacceptable behavior in their grounds. People behave in football grounds in a way that would be unacceptable anywhere else.
The football clubs know who the culprits are and do very little to eliminate them.
Pressure should be put on the clubs to stop the bad behavior by e.g. ground licencing, massive fines, major loss of points etc.
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Alan W Adam 12:52pm Tue 1 Mar 16
A clumsy response to one football match? You spinning lying toe-rag. It’s a response to a century of bigotry. It’s a response to the fact that uniquely amongst all sports, football fans cannot be trusted anywhere around the globe to sit next to opposition fans. They have to be segregated the same way dangerous animals have to.
By no means does this apply to all of them but there’s a significant amount who require this at just about every club and if you took the segregation away, let opposite sets of fans fight it out, the numbers would grow.
Why does no intrepid journalist ask these people if they believe football fans are so hard done by, do they advocate removing all segregation? Go on Herald, ask them and if they say no ask them why.
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Jo Greenhorn 1:02pm Tue 1 Mar 16
“We do so on the basis that it is wrong to create a law which applies to one demonised sector of society, which this act does to football fans.”
What absolute tosh. The reason, unfortunately, that something had to be tried was that so many of these so-called “football fans” carry around with them so much additional sectarian baggage which, frankly, is nothing to do with football but is all about tribal hatred.
It’s embarrassing and wrong. It could be that the new laws need to be tweaked but ultimately I believe action was taken for good reasons.
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peter kelly Replying Jo Greenhorn 1:14pm Tue 1 Mar 16
But this Act is not about sectarianism Jo.
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davie roberts 1:56pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Celtic fans demanded this pernicious legislation as they believed it would only be applicable to Rangers fans and anyone else while they got a free pass to sing their vile sectarian and anti-British racist ” folk songs “.
Only when they themselves began to be dragged through the Courts did the endless whimpering from Celtic fans begin.
They got what they asked for.
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Andrew McMillan 2:41pm Tue 1 Mar 16
He has even managed to get his picture in the article… what a salesman…. another dozen sold! Where can I get a copy of this book? lol…
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Andrew McMillan 2:47pm Tue 1 Mar 16
There is probably nothing wrong with the law but the problem lies in the way it is, or is not, enforced. Many laws suffer from the same issues. The litter laws for example. Ask how many prosecutions there have been in the last 12 months in Scotland under the litter laws. There will be an embarrassing silence from the law enforcement/prosecut
ion authorities. Perhaps a few trivial fixed penalty tickets ( then again maybe not) but few if any actual prosecutions.
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Eileen May 3:13pm Tue 1 Mar 16
I still see offensive UK flags at SFA games. Why is that?
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davie roberts Replying Eileen May 3:15pm Tue 1 Mar 16
@Eileen
Eh, because Glasgow is part of Britain, perhaps ?
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ed mckinlay Replying Eileen May 4:48pm Tue 1 Mar 16
The same flag that will adorn the embassy you would use, if you require help abroad.
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Peter Dow 5:01pm Tue 1 Mar 16
___
A Scottish Government spokeswoman said: “Since the introduction of the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Act,.. we’ve seen a decrease in crimes of offensive behaviour …
“The Act sends out a clear message that Scotland is a country which will not tolerate any form of prejudice, discrimination or hate crime,”
___
That’s nonsense because unrecorded crimes of offensive behaviour by the police and courts are massively up
* raiding innocent people’s homes,
* arresting us for our harmless social media comments
* seizing our valuable computer equipment with irreplaceable data needed for our profession duties and
* prosecutions on trumped-up charges, perhaps under OBaFA but other laws too
* consequential disruption to our contributions to society and the economy
I was raided, arrested, computer seized and am being prosecuted on the 3rd of a series of 3 different charges, only the 2nd of which, now dropped, was under the Offensive Behaviour at Football Matches and Threatening Behaviour (Scotland) Act.
Don’t come away with the false notion that repealing the OBaFA will solve the problem of politicians, police and prosecutors with a censorious approach to crushing political viewpoints which are not their own.
The reality which the SNP government is in denial about is that prejudice, discrimination and hate crimes committed by the police and courts against, for example, republicans are rife.
The SNP have intensified the oppressive police state when the raison d’être of the Scottish Parliament was precisely to give Scots more ability to defend our liberties as was described in political organisations such as Charter 88.
The SNP have taken all our hopes for the Scottish Parliament and dragged them through the courts backwards, and the voters can’t get enough of the SNP police state it seems.
It is enough to make a Braveheart cry!
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colin ross 6:11pm Tue 1 Mar 16
Its a Stupid Law a laughing stock of UK Football no World football having the Song Police at games its Pathetic i live in England and Homophobic and Racist chants are RIGHTLY Arrestable But look if you was to implement SNP Song Police policy at International Games at Hampden Park you would need to send thousands of people to jail as 90% of National Anthems are about wars and Battles of Old some verses are Band for Political correctness Go and google some National Anthems They contain words of Slaying and Blood and killing enemies But if you sing a song about a song from a 1690 battle or about a Ploughboy your arrested ? dont get it one rule for one and not another How many folk are upset about French National Anthem” Let an impure blood Soak our fields! What does this horde of slaves,Of traitors and conspiratorial kings want?” Think about it it is a SONG Historical SONG
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Hamiltontim
As requested.
That should keep you going for a while.
Hope it hasn`t overloaded the system.
It’s funny how you remember inconsequential stuff like how Everton lost In the cl qualifiers in 2005 to a Villarreal team that narrowly lost to Arsenal in the semi finals.
I probably remember as I watched both Everton games and was at highbury for the semi when Arsenal went through thanks to a penalty save. Villarreal were a joy to watch, riquelme was a genius.
Point is you can’t hold it against moyes.
See the next time that Hamiltontim makes a ‘copy and paste’ request. Gonnie no….. ;-) ;-)
Garygillespieshamstring
You’re right yes, i think Boyata will win his appeal however and it will add to
Thomsons match changing decisions against Celtic.