Loans in signings out on loan, what is the plan?

687

Celtic’s January transfer window saw seven new players sign deals, although only four will be at the club for the remainder of this season, and only one of those, Vakoun Issouf Bayo, is on a permanent deal.

Bayo is a classic centre forward-target man, unlike Leigh Griffiths or Odsonne Edouard, who like to play in the channels.  He has not played for two months, so it is likely to be a couple of weeks before we see him.  He is here because of our Ivorian Connection through Kolo Toure, who is a coach at both Celtic and Ivory Coast.  That being the case, the club should know more about him than most new signings, which should mitigate the risk inherent in any signing.

Since the resumption of action after the winter break, we have seen Oliver Burke and Timothy Weah fulfil the striker role, each on loan, from West Brom and Paris Saint-Germain respectively. Neither player is here to play the striker role long-term; expect them to supplement the wide positions after we return to a more normal compliment up front.

With minutes to spare, Jeremy Toljan signed on loan from Borussia Dortmund.  This is a player who great things were expected from when he left Hoffenhiem 18 months ago, but Dortmund is a different beast and he did not find the move easy.

That’s not dissuaded many of his talent, which means Celtic’s chances of securing his services on a permanent basis are slim.  I also believe the player is on pretty decent (cough) contract.  He will not be here beyond May.

Maryann Shved, 21, arrived this week from Karpaty Lviv in Ukraine, where he has returned to stay until the summer.  We moved early for Maryann, interest in the player was generated in only 38 competitive games.  Players grow up on the football field and Maryann needs as many opportunities as he can get right now.  With the manager having so many wide options for the remainder of the season, loaning him back to Karpaty was an easy decision.

Two American full backs were signed yesterday, Andrew Gutman (22) and Manny Perez (19), both loaned back to US clubs.

So all these loans arrivals, signings-only-to-be-loaned out, what’s the plan?

The top-level plan is to win the league, do our best to win the two cups and to give us the best chance of qualifying for the Champions League.  Everything else is a consequence of this.  Two decades ago, when Martin O’Neill set his mind to the same task, he signed talent who were at the peak of their physical capabilities.  Many of those who arrived not only had experience in the English Premiership, they were top performers there.

By the time Gordon Strachan took over, signing strikers who were recently top scorers in England was no longer possible.  Gordon took to Poland (as well as Easter Road), as we searched for talent in value markets.

Neil Lennon’s term saw the transitioning to where we are now.  Neil found African talent, and successfully raided the lower leagues in England, but under his tenure we embarked on what would become one of the mainstays of our recruitment planning – loaning young players (Fraser Forster) who were not getting a sniff at wealthier clubs.

Many doors have closed to us in the last 20 years.  There will be no more Chris Suttons, while competition for players across Eastern Europe is vastly greater than it was when we signed Artur Boruc.

The news is not all bad, in fact, significant things are much better than they were 20 years ago, most specifically, the development of young talent.  Callum McGregor, Kieran Tierney and James Forrest are more successful than any player Paul McStay and Aiden McGeady – and both of them were notable as exceptions for their eras.

The ‘Fraser Forster strategy’ – scout teams too distracted elsewhere to give opportunities to players, has been very productive.  Olivier Ntcham, Odsonne Edouard and Dedryck Boyata all fall into this category (we’ll reserve comment on Daniel Arzani).  We managed to get Odsonne on a try-before-you-buy loan first.  During his loan he did enough to convince Brendan Rodgers to beak our transfer record on him.  Celtic think this will continue to be a productive furrow for them.

Not all signings are Development Projects

Not all loans fall into this category.  Some, like Jeremy Toljan, are here to do a job for a specific period.  Development Projects are not the only game in town, sometimes you just have to plug a hole to strengthen the team.

There were choices for the right back role.  Lech Poznan’s Robert Gumny was looked at and liked, but the player failed a medical a year ago and has not played enough football since a subsequent operation to convince anyone he would be fitter than Jozo Simunovic.  Or we could have tried to find a nugget elsewhere, but Jeremy got the nod.

We sign a lot of players

Two American full backs on the same day we sign a German full back, “millions of wingers”.  This has been going on for a while.  You, me, Celtic and the players know, not all of them are going to make it.  Football, for a century, has harvested talent, picked the cherries and cast the darnel aside.

I remember Martin O’Neill, flush with the success of his early signings and before his Ulrik Laursen and David Fernandez period, told us that every signing a football club makes needs to be a success.  Yes, if you have the wisdom and insight, the luck and the money, maybe you can be so bold.  But there is a real world out there full of scouts and managers who each carry the weight of experience of players who just didn’t work out.

There are formulas, some better than others, but we should know that just putting a Celtic jersey onto a player will not, and has never, made him a certain success.  Martin would have been more accurate by saying ;You have to kiss a lot of frogs in this business’, just do your best to get some handsome frogs in the first place.

We have exceptional domestic talent: Scott Brown, Kieran Tierney, James Forrest, Callum McGregor and Ryan Christie – better than any Scottish team in 30 years, and we have done very well to retain them.

There is room for others to follow. The opportunity is there for Scott Bain and Tony Ralston.

As well as developing our own talent, we have cooperated with two of the world’s richest, Manchester City and PSG, to foster young players who are not getting a chance at their parent club.  This is affordable, enhances the squad, and has helped achieve our football objectives.

We have five young players out on loan: Lewis Morgan, Calvin Miller, Andrew Gutman and Manny Perez, and Maryann Shved.  The hope is some develop into first-team regulars, like Callum McGregor and Ryan Christie did.

That’s the strategy.  Is it better than signing the best permanent players we can?  Like you, I prefer the good ones to be tied down to long-term contracts at Celtic, but despite this, the answer is a clear yes.  We need to work angles with PSG, Borussia Dortmund and Man City.  We need to take risks on players with only a few dozen games under their belt. When an opportunity to sign a Ntcham or Boyata arises, take it.  And we need to continue to do what we are doing with youth development.

Will it deliver 8-in-a-row?  You bet your bum it will.

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  1. Fan-a-tic 12:56pm

     

     

    Blind obedience is not healthy so I consider (too much) and form my view.

     

     

    No ‘ good window but’ as it was a huge ??? Window. We’ll see come May how good Weah, etc were or if we had to rely on the usual guys in the squad.

  2. P67

     

     

    Save your breath.

     

    We are struggling at the moment and our horizons are very small.

     

     

    Who we have bought and why e have bought them tell us everything about where we are heading — second rate moneyball and plastering over the cracks with loan signings / any loan signing by way of Heated Driveway productions.

     

     

    Main issue about the last 31 days?

     

     

    Our biggest single financial transaction was the long term bonus to PL.

     

    How will that help us win the league over the next 15 games?

     

     

    Self indulgence by DD / Irish Raj and self serving by PL and his white collar cronies.

     

     

    A house divided will fall and we are currently divided.

     

    Looks like PL will outlast / out brass neck another manager.

     

    He has form and he has undoubted talent for his cuckoo like ability to push others out the door.

     

     

    Our efforts to build for the future seem to have the same level of strategic focus as MayBots attempts to negotiate Brexit — kick the can down the road for as long as possible and latch onto anything to try and plaster over the cracks.

     

     

    All the big issues are still out in the open.

     

     

    Defence is at best 25% sorted, at worst a blank canvas for next season.

     

     

    No succession planning regarding the captaincy — SB is not worth his place on merit at the moment so the next two years will be interesting and a cost will have to be paid.

     

     

    DM — We don’t have anyone who can play this to the standards of VW in 2012.

     

     

    Squad — Bloated, overpaid, lacking shape and limited regarding the future.

     

     

    Interesting to find out what the 6 month financials will tell us?

     

    If we are having to sell players to make the books add up then we really are in trouble.

     

     

    Everything points to big changes in the summer and they will not be for the better.

  3. Paul67 : The Plan

     

     

    The plan as I see it, is 2 tier. It is based on the here and now. And also with one eye on the future.

     

     

    Weah, Burke, Toljan, Benckovic are all high value quality football players. And ultimately the plan, concerning them is purely and simply concluding 8 i.a.r

     

     

    Manny Perez, at 19 is most definitely a project

     

    Gutman at 22, you would hope has been identified as a solid back-up left back. I say that knowing Izzy will be free to leave in summer. And Calvin Millar, I feel is not regarded as being good enough (as things stand).

     

     

    Bayo is our Dembele replacement. He will joust with Edouard to be our lead the line striker. There will be many occasions next season when maybe both will play. Edouard deployed off the left hand side.

     

     

    Shved must of been signed, as he has obviously caught the eye of our scouting department. 21 yrs old, an exciting talent. At 1.5 million, its an investment in potential. 12 months from now Sinclair will be 30. I would assume the powers that be would rather see the back of Sinclairs wage bill. Think the longer term plan there is to allow Sinclair to return to English Championship. Possibly even this summer.

  4. Trad 88

     

     

    7iar heading for 8

     

     

    Double Trebles and an Invincible season.

     

     

    I’d say more than mildly satisfied rather than smug.

     

     

    It’s about time to match the emotion to the reality. It’s all very well being a “restless improver” but, we need to take time to enjoy our successes and our dominance because, no matter how restless we are to improve, there WILL come a time when we fail to win our desired prize.

     

     

    That will be the time to feel downbeat.

     

     

    Meanwhile- “Yee Ha! and keep your eye on the prize!” is not that smug. IMO

  5. And as everybody knows… the plan as soon as Scottish Cup final day is over, must be the recruit a quality centre back. Maybe even 2… if Boyata and Benckovic depart, it would be wise to replace 2, with 2

  6. A poor window… on the back of summer fiasco. We have KT Botata and Ben out for at least a moth, But we don’t sign cover for CH or better still a permanent decent CH rather than wait till summer..(when they always wait to see if we quailify for Europe before buying) A couple of decent additions up front (on loan) though they just limit space for our own players Mikey and Lewis Morgan. Remember we have had the easiest possiblestart to New Year all games at home against poor teams and St.J who didn’t want to cross half way line.

  7. SOUTH OF TUNIS on 1ST FEBRUARY 2019 11:32 AM

     

     

    ———————————

     

     

    That Dillinger track is deadly.

     

     

    Thanks for posting.

     

     

    HH. ?

  8. PS Miler should have been kept as cover for Izzy, he did OK at Dundee, better than playing Johnny Hayes there. (I base this on KT being out for the season)

  9. Any way you look at the last 4 weeks have been a shambles regarding player recruitment.

     

     

    Bringing in loan players to play.

     

    Spending serious money on players who will take time to get up to speed.

     

    Bringing in players to loan out immediately.

     

     

    You cant build a club on loan players.

     

    We are treating this resource like an addict would his stash.

     

    Quick hits rather than sort out the issues that are driving him to this destructive behavior.

     

     

    Interesting to find out what team is put out this weekend?

     

    Home games are one thing but our away form has been shocking.

     

    Six points ahead — time for another BR away game special?

     

    If CMcG is at LB then fear the worst.

  10. Trad 88

     

     

    Did I sound smug to you??

     

     

    Just pointing out we don’t lose that many goals and in my opinion the front of the park was an issue..

     

     

    Anyway none of us are mindreaders and I prefer to go one game at a time rather than full panic mode every day on here..

     

     

     

    HH

  11. The loan signings have strengthened us.

     

    Weah and Burke have added pace power and game intelligence in an area we were threadbare.

     

    Hopefully Toljan will bolster the defense.

     

    With it now looking like Boyata and Benkovic are out for a while Simo and Ajer have the chance to claim position as their own.

     

    I still think Hendry has something and he was a victim of having to fill in various positions without gaining awareness and confidence .That was always going to be difficult and especially as we seem to judge signings from Scottish teams to a much more critical standard.

     

    In Brendan’s first two seasons with a healthy points lead we missed a trick in not giving youngsters game time.

     

    People often say if he was good enough he would get the time which i would dispute.

     

    Ryan Christie was lucky as the stars aligned for him with injuries to others and a failed signing attempt.

     

    Would we have seen him if McGinn bid hadn’t been rejected?

     

    Foreign players like Weah ,Dembele and Edouard had no trouble earning game time and gaining coaches trust despite their young age.

     

    Is the same consideration given to youngsters in our academy?

     

    If the loan signings are used to aid the development of our own youngsters it’s a good thing but if they become a stumbling block to youth progress we should avoid.

  12. The most frustrating aspect is all the players hanging around gathering dust. Scott Allan will see out his deal. Hayes, Compper, Mulumbu and Bitton will be here another year. Benyu and Kouassi another 2 years. Hendry another 3 years.

     

     

    A lot of dead wood.

  13. Rogic Out for6 weeks ?

     

     

    Just had a text from a pup in our what’s app group who trawls all sites

     

    But can’t see anything

     

     

    Anyone heard anything ?

  14. Paul 67 . Good article . ?

     

     

    Matt. 12.55 . Food for thought. Shared & thanks.

     

     

    Mad Mitch.

     

    I think you show a blatant disregard for where Celtic are placed on the football food chain.

     

    Even the richly bloated clubs from their self proclaimed , best league in the world , are cutting back on transfers and utilising the loan system.

     

    Celtic play in a league currently ranked 23rd in Europe. Could we do better ?

     

    Yes , at every level of the club, but how much better ? Context is needed , rather than outlandish criticism.

     

    Having delusions of grandeur is just as dangerous as having no ambition. HH

  15. BGFC @ 11.55

     

     

    The situation with KA explains in full the issues we generate for ourselves.

     

     

    I think he is the real deal and well worth his place but like RC he has a lot of developing to do. His biggest issue is his weak left foot and his uncertainty / lack of confidence when playing Left CB.

     

     

    Consequently if we want the best from him in the long term we need to find a left sided CB as a matter of urgency. He has the potential to take the team to the next level over the next 5 years and that is a level we have not seen since GC in the early 70’s — special mention to RA in the 80’s but although he had his moments he didn’t do it consistently enough.

     

     

    He has it all to be an international class ball playing CB / libero.

     

    But to make this happen the team must be set up to make the most of his talents.

     

     

    FB = much more confident and capable left sided CB.

     

    Unfortunately he is a loan deal, very expensive and currently injured.

     

    Consequently we need to make serious efforts to bring in SMcK in.

     

    Left sided CB who does a good line in blood and snotters.

     

     

    DB — really pleased that we have helped him develop his career but to me he is history.

     

    If he doesn’t want to sign a contract then no use in keeping his fitness levels up.

     

     

    JS — he owes the team big time because if he fails with us then what next?

     

    JH — needs time and space to develop, he is half finished and is being hurt by the never ending scrutiny. I hope he is given the time and support to polish up his game and his decision making in the spotlight.

     

     

    No matter what happens we need to get things moving now to bring in the right people in June.

  16. MADMITCH on 1ST FEBRUARY 2019 1:22 PM

     

     

    ——————————————–

     

     

    We have been cursed with injuries, right from the very beginning of this league campaign.

     

     

    Kieran Tierney, our best player has been out for weeks. Tom Rogic same albeit for different reasons. LG on special leave. Benkovic and now Boyata as well.

     

     

    Best performance of the season thus far was at McDiarmid Park – Brendan started the game with 2 in attack – OE and LG.

     

     

    Total football.

     

     

    I think that if we win there again on Sunday, we’ll retain our league title at a canter. Expect us to do that Hibs mob on the Wednesday night. Sheep host the zombie club, one of them will drop points.

     

     

    HH. ?

  17. traditionalist88 on

    SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 1ST FEBRUARY 2019 1:10 PM

     

    Trad 88

     

     

    7iar heading for 8

     

     

    Double Trebles and an Invincible season.

     

     

    I’d say more than mildly satisfied rather than smug.

     

    ==========

     

     

    Of course, many of us remember the bad times and we should enjoy every minute of our current success. But I was just pointing out in response to a post about our defensive record since October that it does not bode well for us if we continue to drop away points at that rate we have in that period.

     

     

    HH

  18. prestonpans bhoys on

    Lindsay of the ET at it again, finds someone from Germany (Stefan Buczko – who?) to comment on our new right back ….

     

    “He’s been very average. In my opinion, he has a couple of tactical and technical deficiencies. His positioning has not always been great and his tactical awareness has not always been the best either. His first touch has also let him down at times.

     

     

    “On the plus side………………………why bother ya tube…………

  19. thomthethim for Oscar OK on

    It was only a matter of time before we heard that Tom Rogic needs extensive treatment.

     

     

    He has been struggling with his knee for most of the season and his form has reflected this.

     

     

    We are in a good position to afford him the time for this and hopefully having him fully fit for the new season.

     

     

    On a different track.

     

     

    Do we still have Efe’s phone number?

  20. what is it with us and long term injuries to a player/s that get ‘a knock’ are we just unlucky or what?.

  21. AG @ 1.42

     

     

    Have to disagree.

     

     

    We are not at the bottom of the food chain when it comes to CEO bonus payments.

     

    Total disgrace that our biggest financial transaction this month was PL’s unearned bonus and not the purchase of a player.

     

     

    All these short term player actions would suggest that change is coming at the top of the club.

  22. PRESTONPANS BHOYS on 1ST FEBRUARY 2019 1:48 PM

     

    comment on our new right back ….

     

     

    “He’s been very average. In my opinion, he has a couple of tactical and technical deficiencies. His positioning has not always been great and his tactical awareness has not always been the best either. His first touch has also let him down at times.

     

     

    is he related to ML

  23. traditionalist88 on

    STARRY PLOUGH on 1ST FEBRUARY 2019 1:24 PM

     

    Trad 88

     

     

    Did I sound smug to you??

     

    ==============

     

     

    No, apologies that came across that way – more a generalisation or complacency amongst our support that we just need to turn up to win.

     

     

    IMO the defensive record since October looks good on paper but has to be qualified by saying the away form in the same period was poor. Extremely poor. So yes, this all points to it not being right further up the park, as you clarified in your response above.

     

     

    HH

  24. JC2 @ 1.38

     

     

    Has been on the agenda for a while.

     

     

    He was not totally fit at the WC and some of his recent performances for us gave the impression that he was playing the game with bad toothache or even worse.

     

     

    Hopefully they find out the full extent of the issue and give him time to recover.

  25. Some people are on here and they blame everything on the Chief Executive.

     

     

    Take Boyata for example, there was a £9m offer on the table for Boyata. Brendan decided he was to stay. He has stayed and will leave in May for a zero fee. Remember he threw the toys and refuse to play and was a contributory factor in us losing the AEK tie and missing the Champions Group stage.

     

     

    When players are running down their contract they are poorly motivated to their current club and are thinking of their new club. There is no surprise to see he is injured as this often happens in this situation. He may only play a handful of Celtic matches before May.

     

     

    This is poor Business and poor squad management. The CEO had previously said that we would no longer let players run their contracts down. Brendan decided that he would stay and flexed his muscles on the issue. Brendan is in charge of this and if he decides that a player is not to leave then that’s his right.

     

     

    The club has told us Brendan decides the squad and Boyata case demonstrates this clearly.

     

     

    We have signed 7 players in this window yet there are people here who believe the manager has not been backed. We have now approaching 40 in our first team squad with 14 players playing each game this leaves around 26 players not playing. Our Reserve squad has additional 16 players.

     

     

    This is clearly down to Brendan. He decides who we buy, who we loan and who get a new contract. The squad size is his wish.

     

     

    The problem with this is not only the loss of the Transfer fee for Boyata and others, but a bloated squad salaries. I would quess that the Boyata income has largely been spent on unused players.

     

     

    Maybe Brendan isn’t worried about these matters beyond this summer!!

  26. When was the last time we fielded the same starting eleven in successive games?

     

     

    Our manager never cries, or makes excuses – same as our players – they just get on with it, in spite of the many set backs.

     

     

    Zombies need to remember this

     

     

    We are all sometimes a bit quick to criticise Brendan, myself included – perhaps we should reserve judgement until Brendan fields his strongest team. Knowing our luck though we could be waiting a long time for this to occur.

  27. AG @ 12.55 / Part 2

     

     

    What could we do better?

     

    Where to start?

     

     

    Retire PL would be a good start.

     

     

    How much money has he taken out the club over the past 15 years?

     

    How much revenue has been lost due to his constant tinkering with the recruitment process?

     

     

    Best guess — £25mill for the first and £80mill for the second.

     

    FG — aka Fred the Shred — ran RBS with more aplomb and look what happened to him.

  28. ron67

     

     

    ml has been one of our best players for years, operations have caught up with him but a good celtic man.

     

     

    imo.

  29. BB @ 1.57

     

     

    Oh no — not another PL fanboy.

     

     

    Short memories coming into play here — we were not in a good place regarding CB recruitment in July / August if I remember correctly.

     

     

    We are a house divided at the moment and the primary reason for this is DD’s indifference and PL’s ego.

  30. No wonder the Scottish newspapers are going bust.

     

    They seem to be spending huge amount of time trolling any country we are linked with a player from in the hope of a negative quote.

     

    Heaven help us if the Liberian economy does not improve in the next few months.

     

    Or those big bad Ukranians invade poor little Russia.

  31. Big Georges Fan Club - Hail, Hail, Wee Oscar on

    FG — aka Fred the Shred — ran RBS with more aplomb

     

    ============

     

    No he didn’t

  32. TIMHORTON on 1ST FEBRUARY 2019 2:04 PM

     

    ron67

     

    ml has been one of our best players for years, operations have caught up with him but a good celtic man.

     

    imo.

     

     

    was tongue in cheek , has been a great servant to our club , but his best days are well behind him.

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