I don’t get the flares thing. It’s not a part of my going-to-see-Celtic tradition. But if it was my thing, I’d have the courage of my convictions, I wouldn’t hide the fact.
There are consequences of bringing flares to football games, always has been. By not having the courage to openly ignite them, those consequences are not personalised to the individuals who regard this as an integral part of what they do at a football game, they are visited upon everyone in the vicinity, as well as the club.
The problem with flares at Celtic games is those who bring them hide the fact – as they clearly know there are consequences, and presumably aren’t too interested in taking responsibility for them. ‘Keen on flares, not keen enough to stand up for them’, is why the issue persists.
I get the attraction to bright, shiny, things, but this isn’t a campaign to bring the vote to disenfranchised people against a force who will execute the offender on sight. It’s about bringing a flare to a football game. If it’s so important, do it openly. If you think Health and Safety are simply wrong, find the evidence and use it in court. Have the courage to change something. I know lots of Celtic fans who have had the courage to put their name to something they believed in, in recent years. It’s seldom easy, but it has been done.
But in the years of this debate no one has ever pointed to evidence that igniting flares in a football ground is a clever thing to do. It’s just a ‘look at me’ exercise, ‘But don’t look at my face’, of course.
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Episode 5 of ‘A Celtic State of Mind’ finds Paul John Dykes and Kevin Graham discussing a variety of topical subjects concerning Celtic Football Club, including:
* What now for the Green Brigade?
* Dedryck Boyata – Are reinforcements on route?
* Virgil van Dijk – The windfall cometh;
* Emilio Izaguirre – Moving on.
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FAIRHILL BHOY @ 9:52 PM,
We live in a free Country, even for Huns I’m afraid – you need proof to get banning orders.
They work.
In fact during European 2016 the English complained that they got battered all over France by the Russians because their “Top Boys” all had banning orders against them… it was a kind of unpatriotic hinderence by British Law Enforcement.
We have OBAF, that was supposed to eradicate some of this nonsense, in fact it was used to make Irish Folk Songs a hate crime.
Hail Hail
CANAMALAR IT LOOKS LIKE OCD OBSESSION:
The problem with that is you’re advocating that we violate the rules to force clubs and the SFA to respect the rules. Whatever we do here, in order for it to be rock solid and immune to legal appeal and the inevitable backlash, it has to be within the rules.
Burnley78
You know the solution.
The solution is, dont pay to be cheated.
Its not difficult.
HH
COWIEBHOY:
Yeah that would be a very reasonable, and safe, proposition.
When I wrote the “love it when a plan comes together” article after Ashley sold his Sevco shares a lot of people assumed it was tongue in cheek, but actually without ever all getting together to “conspire” I know a lot of the Celtic bloggers were aware that we were pushing the Ashley is Evil line hard because, actually, the guy was a bit of a concern for us all.
That looked very much to me, at the start, like it was exactly what Ashley was aiming for, and it could have restored their fortunes far more readily than King’s mental strategy looks like doing.
You’re right, it’s a mystery why with all their wealth none of the English clubs has considered that. One of the owners certainly had something like it in mind … but public pressure (haha) was able to change it :) I’ll always be very proud of that!
Tim Reaper
Re Milne
Yes to the former. Houses and Planning.
Not sure re the latter.
James
I agree that the only way to get anywhere will be through the shareholders, the club will only do things if forced imo.
As for boycotting, I never have and never would advocate boycotting Celtic, but I would boycott other clubs and force them to force teh powers to act, money talks, it’s the only thing they will listen to.
JF&CANMAN-speaking for my self,I like the likes of you two having a ding dong
16Roads The night they drove ole Dixie down. Hh
THE EXILED TIM:
That, also, would be something worth pursuing.
If all that motivates these clubs is seeing Sevco fill a stand every year, where the flip-side of that is that we won’t fill one. And if the fans of those clubs who DID speak out were to do the same … yeah we could bring things around very, very quickly.
FAIRHILL BHOY:
It’s great debating stuff in a civilised way with smart people. It sharpens your own arguments, keeps you on your toes, and reminds us all that we’re passionate about the club.
Nothing beats it except being on the same side and rolling over the other mob :)
Milne is a goat fiddler, he has-had ambitions, he may have gotten to where he aspired, I met him many times in days of yore.
The Exiled Tim:
I wonder, actually, if that idea doesn’t have something … if that idea isn’t worth expanding on a bit.
Logging out for the night …
(Actually, I’m off to play Heart of Iron IV, to crush those German swine with the might of Soviet ingenuity and manpower. And if I can win that quickly I might roll west and see if I can’t put those other capitalist pigs in their place whilst I’m at it! Seriously, anyone who likes games should check it out!)
Love and peace y’all … good debating with you fine folks this evening.
James
Whatever transpires we are gonna need to do something if we have any hopes of justice, else they win.
It should be soon, the end game is well upon us.
Cowie
I was at most home league matches last season and 10 away league matches. Did not attend any League Cup or Scottish Cup matches and will never set foot in Hampden or Ibrox again. I have started my mini boycott. The season book is in peril, depending on our game getting cleaned up or not.
JF,
your going to have to identify which rules will be violated by Celtic not filling in the application forms to join the Scottish and league cup competitions.
TET
JF
That could have a profound effect, and a severe boot in the Denis Laws for those who want to ‘move on’
Why should we fund the cheating colluding no-marks who want to oppose us?
HH
On the subject of silence on “title stripping” , “improper registrations” etc …
It took HMRC 7 years to exhaust due process and all levels of appeal available to the parties to get the Supreme Court decision they sought in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (EBTs).
The Supreme Court decision was made public on 5th July, just 17 days ago, and a detailed document substantiating the televised decision was also made available. Any professional organisation would digest the legal arguments and refer to legal experts before instigating any proceeding they think fit.
The SPL got the LNS review spectacularly wrong (through self interest ?) as they should have waited until all appeal options had been exhausted before setting Terms of Reference for any such review.
Any reputable professional organisation would have waited until such an irrevocable legally binding decision (i.e. SC) had been made before reviewing matters and procedures related to relevant issues.
If there is to be a challenge to LNS etc, then preparing a watertight case takes more than a few weeks, even if there was preparatory work prior to SC decision. And apart from making a brief statement which referenced both Supreme Court and LNS decisions, they would certainly not show their hand before any such proceedings.
I’d be amazed if the Celtic board, with its fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders alone, have not taken or are taking serious legal advice which may eventually lead to a very strong case being led in the appropriate legal platform at the right time.
Even the SFA / SPFL say they spoke to a senior legal representatives they know and he said they were ok !!! (Compare that to the transparency of the Supreme Court decision).
As I said , HMRC play a 7 year long game – and got exactly what they wanted.
JF-lets hope your kept on your toes then
B78
If SPFL votes to move on, does clubs still not hold a veto to reject decisions ?
I seem to remember that before the Lyon game someone posted that the Green Brigade would not be there as they were having a disagreement with Celtic over banners. At the time I thought about nothing about it but today it makes sense.
After the Hearts game Celtic, or their representatives, have expressed their displeasure to the GB and they have decided to act in, the sure and certain, expectation of sanctions for themselves and Celtic.
The Green Brigade chose to act as they did on Wednesday, knowing that the club had already been in trouble with all of the health and safety authorities.
Today they issue a statement that tells everyone that they not only let of smoke floats but that they did it in the full knowledge that they were out of order. Their political principles out weigh any loyalty they have to Celtic.
Yesterday the argument was that the old jungle used to sing and do worse, so why pick on these youngsters for having a laugh. The Orange Order used a similar case to justify marching through areas where they were unwelcome. “it’s our traditional route” they claimed.
Well it used to be traditional to send children through moving industrial machinery or up chimneys, does anyone think that particular tradition should be adhered to still, Macjay say nothing :-).
The Green Brigade have chosen to act in the great Homerian tradition of “sticking it to the man”, that’s Simpson not Illyad by the way, so as they have said themselves they took the action in full knowledge of the consequences then they have no else to blame but themselves.
For the avoidance of doubt I am not hard of thinking, a sweetie rustler, an old firmist, a board apologist, or a back of the bus uncle Tim.
I bet most of the Green Brigade have been no closer to the North than Stranraer. I grew up during the, so called, Troubles. How many Glasgow “hard men” had to walk up the main street whilst some scared, 18y/o, squaddie pointed a NATO standard rifle at them. All it took for the petrified kid to crap himself was a car back firing.
The Green Brigade have decided that the sacrifice of men and women of the IRA is worth nothing but a GIRFUY.
The sacrifice of committed Republicans is nothing to these “tap room” hard men but a device to further their political agenda.
I am not and never have been a member of the Republican movement but I have been on busses where guys who did their time have traveled and believe you me these guys knew when to sing the songs and when not to.
I am in no way a hand wringer or hard of thinking, neither am I distracted by squirrels or crisp packets. The intellectual conceit of some on here is only matched by their total lack of simple manners.
If we get the decision we expect from the SPFL, and it’s still an if, then i think we as Celtic supporters need to go back the old fashioned days. Call a meeting and let’s get together and discuss how we go forward. Get representatives from the affiliations there and let’s unite into one force. As far as the agenda goes we could look at how we can lobby our Club and other organisations, what legal action we can crowdfund together and boycotting away games should also be on the agenda. Let’s get together and let the fightback begin.
Where’s MARSPAPA when you need him :-))(
TGM
As I don’t attend games I feel I am not in a position to advocate this, I have said for many years that it’s a sure way to force change, just ask the suits from Dun Utd and Aberdeen, they told the spl where to go to, that was only the threat of withdrawing cash from them.
I honestly don’t think it would be too hard to organise, say a few hundred attend a game, make the home club shell out for policing etc, they will be on to the sfa as quick as the huns cheat.
OWEN
Although, there are quite a few gags flying about, a bit like those crisp pokes blowin doon the street:)
Im getting bored with the arguments, its all been said.
HH
DD, I’m in same boat, started my own painful campaign quite a few years ago, and I used to go to 95% of the games
The Green Man
So what exactly does that achieve ? Tell us how does your don’t pay strategy help celtic in any way ? As I see it the club just dies or loses its current dominant position
Another Flare goes up
This GB `debate` has shown CQN at its worst.
Roll on Rosenborg.
Buenos noches todo el mundo.
JJ
TET
We simply pose the question: is it wise to be funding people who are determined to hurt Celtic?
I dont see the point of paying teams to oppose us and control us.
Id ban sevco at once, without any quibble whatsoever.
They cannot be allowed to treatt Celtic players they way they do without being held responsible for their racism and bigotry.
Surely you would think that was common sense?
HH
Good post Owen.
Cowie
I would love to have been at Hampden to see the Treble won, but sadly Hampden for me no more.
Was better watching wi you and your good lady and many friends in Lisbon, anyway. :)
Burnley78
Ive got two words for you: Truth, and Justice.
What dont you understand about that?
Is that too difficult to grasp.
Its that simple, you dont need to muddy the waters.
Its basic.
HH
The green brigade statement is unbelievable who do they think they are I like the atmosphere they bring but can’t condone the banner we go on about Sevco living in the last century with there stuff but we have I R A banners I am Irish and proud of it but had to try and explain banner to a ten year old the green brigade say they are unhappy to see 900 banned then why did they not just say to club that they would take there members out and let the rest see the game I agree with everything James Forrest says and I think there statement leaves the club with no option than give them there money back and sell there tickets on
EMBRAMIKE SUPPORTING RES 12
Very perceptive post mate, we just got the result and too many complaining about inaction, the game just started for real:))
Owen
Well said.
Sixteen Roads
Joan Baez…great woman,lovely singer.
Joe Hill CSC
Hot Smoked Well said. I would suggest that whilst we all love Celtic deep schisms exist amongst us in terms of our values and beliefs. Hh
Burnley78
So basically, your argument is that Celtic supporters should just pay their money and shut up, and forget about the corruption and cheating?
That isnt very realistic, is it?
HH