I don’t get the flares thing. It’s not a part of my going-to-see-Celtic tradition. But if it was my thing, I’d have the courage of my convictions, I wouldn’t hide the fact.
There are consequences of bringing flares to football games, always has been. By not having the courage to openly ignite them, those consequences are not personalised to the individuals who regard this as an integral part of what they do at a football game, they are visited upon everyone in the vicinity, as well as the club.
The problem with flares at Celtic games is those who bring them hide the fact – as they clearly know there are consequences, and presumably aren’t too interested in taking responsibility for them. ‘Keen on flares, not keen enough to stand up for them’, is why the issue persists.
I get the attraction to bright, shiny, things, but this isn’t a campaign to bring the vote to disenfranchised people against a force who will execute the offender on sight. It’s about bringing a flare to a football game. If it’s so important, do it openly. If you think Health and Safety are simply wrong, find the evidence and use it in court. Have the courage to change something. I know lots of Celtic fans who have had the courage to put their name to something they believed in, in recent years. It’s seldom easy, but it has been done.
But in the years of this debate no one has ever pointed to evidence that igniting flares in a football ground is a clever thing to do. It’s just a ‘look at me’ exercise, ‘But don’t look at my face’, of course.
********************************************************
Episode 5 of ‘A Celtic State of Mind’ finds Paul John Dykes and Kevin Graham discussing a variety of topical subjects concerning Celtic Football Club, including:
* What now for the Green Brigade?
* Dedryck Boyata – Are reinforcements on route?
* Virgil van Dijk – The windfall cometh;
* Emilio Izaguirre – Moving on.
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Who are they trying to kid? Wednesday is the start of a picnic.
Collusion Is No Illusion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAicCEBO1v8
HH
This place is crying out for a “New Article Posted”. Haaaarumph! I`m off for a fry-up.
Police Scotland have chapped at least 6 doors this morning
Not much defence when our own supporters seem to be offended by young bhoys displaying banners
BLANTYRETIM IS PRAYING FOR THE KNOX FAMILY on 25TH JULY 2017 8:00 AM
Given live proceedings dont discuss. Hopefully any bhoys in question say “No Comment”.
HH
A public resignation from the Scottish Cup competition would be a good start, show intent and without doubt galvanise the support right behind the board.
organise a few bounce games between first and second 11 the same week ends as the Scottish cup would keep the lights on, i suspect we’d only have to do this once.
I really must be as thick as.
I keep reading posters saying that a judicial review is the answer, have we not just seen a judicial review, one where five top law lords and ladies have reviewed all the evidence and came to the conclusion that the huns withheld vital evidence from the sfa and the tax man, in short they cheated.
This is where my stupidness come to the fore, how will a review conducted by lesser judges that the five who have decreed that the huns are cheating bastards, how will that hold sway with the sfa and the splf who are ignoring the findings of the highest court in the land.
I really would love to hear the answer.
“Look at me not at my face.”
Seems a sadly apt and prophetic epitaph for Peter Lawwell and his supporters.
The tread on Rangers Media where they discussed exactly what was happening with the SPFL before anything was reported in the Scottish Media is still there.
While this was being typed Celtic Bloggers were welcoming the Review announced by Mr Petrie
It’s called “Stewart Robertson Elected to The SPFL Board”
“It was more than the old board. Meetings were opened up to all 42 members of the SPFL afaik. They wanted to wait until the new board were elected to announce their decision to avoid a situation where it can be suggested they rushed it through before elections.”
18 hours ago
How concrete are you on this?
“99%. There is no appetite from clubs to set aside LNS (not to mention no scope to do so without opening a major can of worms) despite the wailing online by fans.”
18 hours ago,
“I mentioned it in my Record blog on Saturday and it seemed to strike a nerve with them. Pedro’s biggest worry is being seen to be on a board not pursuing title stripping and potentially putting his own standing at Celtic on an even shooglier peg than normal… I’m told Celtic voted for Robertson’s election…
…The sheer disdain in which he holds the average punter is genuinely remarkable.”
18 hours ago
________________________________________________________________________________________
A quite stunning development and Karma in action.
No doubt those arrests this morning were in connection with the damage to Celtic Park at the Sevco game?
Or Sectarian singing by Linfield?
Or Ajax fans?
It’s a great time to bury bad news during the Glasgow Fair, a Green Brigade Ban and a CL Qualifier.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Maybe Paul67 will organise a Stadium Protest today and tomorrow prior to the form confirmation of the news broken on Rangers Media?
“Laws are spider webs through which the big flies pass and the little ones get caught.”
Honoré de Balzac
So Bazza, like the club he loved and played for, having indulged himself on living the high life, now refuses to face up to the responsibility of the life he led and takes the bankruptcy bail out.
It’s all way too convenient. A mere business tactic to avoid paying ones debts. A few years of minor inconvenience and hey-ho, alls well and off we go again, debt-free.
These people should be facing criminal prosecution. Whilst yes, there are some who simply suffer bad luck when external factors leave them high and dry. However, far too many people deliberately rack up massive debts with no intention whatsoever of repaying them, take the bankruptcy route, more often than not, starting up a business in their wife’s name, or some other family member etc…
Being made bankrupt used to be an event of great shame and had a massive stigma attached to it. As I said, now it is nothing more than a debt reduction strategy. So commonplace that no-one bats an eyelid.
Exiled Tim
The decision of the 5 Law Lords was confined to the question whether or not tax was due on the payments they made to the players and others under the EBT scheme and nothing else.
There was no reference to how such a practice stood in a sporting or footballing context, whether the SFA or SPFL had acted appropriately in terms of the footballing legislation etc etc.
A Judicial Review is a specific legal process which seeks to legally review an administrative legal function and is most commonly used in relation to the granting or refusal of licences and permissions by the likes of a local authority or licensing board. The court is asked to review the function and decision reached on the grounds that the board (or whatever) erred in law, or predicated its decision based on some immaterial fact, or acted contrary to natural justice and so on.
There is a lot of dirty politics at play but I can confirm that I was told unless fans of other clubs come out and rattle the cages of their own support and boardrooms there will be little action of any merit as most other clubs simply want to concentrate on staying afloat and balancing their books.
In my view that is a short sighted view and one that will ultimately guarantee financial failure.
THE EXILED TIM on 25th July 2017 8:14 am
That is a very good question. HH
…what is it with the Bushy Tail?
Somethin’s no’ right.
Oops.
BRTH, that is a very good answer.
Is the decision not to prosicute the Ajax thugs in Scotland just letting them off with it ,when all the witnesses to the attack are here . Will this case really go to court in Holland?
Clogher / BT
Arrests?
BRT & H
….and that is a very good answer. Unusually short-winded for you !
Cheerio for now.
JJ
Brogan……
I accept that, but, the same law lords told us that they hid the side letters from the sfa and HMRC, that in itself is enough to hang them.
ROBERTTRESSELL on 25TH JULY 2017 12:36 AM
Well, the time has come for a boycott.
If clubs aren’t going to act then the supporters must.
I’d start with the threat of it. A time limit given and then, if no new inquiry, a call to all fans of all clubs to stay away from their stadia.
Along with that an immediate boycott of hampden for any game, club or international should be called immediately. All clubs beaten by oldco in Europe should be informed that rangers players were improperly registered and in one season the club had known outstanding social taxes and should not have been licensed to play in Europe at all.
The scandal needs to be brought to a head.
Surely the ‘legal advice’ obtained by the SFA/SPFL junta would have covered the difficulties likely to be encountered by a group(s) of supporters attempting to obtain the ‘Standing’ to bring an application for Judicial Review.
“”Before an individual or organisation can bring an application for judicial review, they must be able to demonstrate that they have “standing”, which requires that they have a “sufficient interest in the matter to which the application relates”. In the vast majority of cases, the applicant to the court will be an individual who is directly affected by a public authority decision or other measure, and they will on that basis have a “sufficient interest”. However, in other cases, a decision or other measure may not have an impact on an individual albeit that it still has implications for the wider public. In that circumstance, “pressure” groups, “representational” groups, or “public interest” groups may bring an application for judicial review.”
Not saying it’s impossible but they’ll know that a friendly judge might not entertain a group of supporters.
Having said that that can’t be allowed to get away with this cheating and deception.
http://publicinterest.info/?q=judicial-review/standing
BANKIEBHOY1 on 25TH JULY 2017 8:52 AM
Mo chara, no offence. It’s not the first time you’ve been asked to take a back seat. With brains like yours we have more to fear from speaking up than shutting up.
HH
Word of The Day (in advance of the SPFL perpetuating the continuity myth)
Consubstantial /ˌkɒnsəbˈstænʃəl/
adjective
1. of one and the same substance, essence, or nature.
2. (Christian theol) (esp of the three persons of the Trinity) regarded as identical in substance or essence though different in aspect
Derived Forms
consubstantiality, noun
consubstantially, adverb
Word Origin and History for consubstantial
adj.
late 15c., a term in the theology of the trinity, from Church Latin consubstantialis, from com- “with” (see com- ) + substantia (see substance ). In general use from 1570s. Related: Consubstantiality.
KTF
Is anyone else having problems posting comments this morning?
Foxy
I am never impressed by posts that clai, to demonstrate intellectual superiority.
Self praise is no praise at all.
Making an intelligent point is a distinction to be bestowed by other readers on poster comments. It really does not strengthen anyone’s argument to claim that they are making intelligent claims and others are making stupid ones.
It kinds of smacks of a sense of insecurity that might lead one to exaggerate one’s footballing prowess, coaching credentials and financial success, for example.
Exiled Tim
Yes that is a finding in fact by a court of law, and if I recall correctly, LNS also found that they hid the side letters and did not declare them.
There will be an argument put forward that LNS held that they did not disclose the side letters, breached the rules of the game and were fined the £250k and that is that. It will be suggested that the legal advice given is that this ruling dealt with all of the matters which could be reviewed and is now not capable of being overturned and interfered with.
I suspect that there will be some mealy mouthed wording which will acknowledge that the actions of Rangers Football Club in operating the EBT scheme was reprehensible in the extreme, broke the laws of the game and were punished via the LNS commission. It will go on to say that some clubs and their fans will find the outcome unacceptable and inappropriate, however, the SPFL will have been advised that they cannot pursue the matter further for legal reasons which includes the fact that no further punishment can be levied against the party who caused the wrongs as they are no longer members of the league or operating in Scottish Football.
They will add that matters are being reviewed and assure football fans that rules are being tightened up to ensure that no such situation can occur in the future, and will conclude that while the SPFL cannot take any further action, should any football club in particular, or other party, wish to take separate legal action in relation to the decisions reached by the SPFL then the SPFL will defend its legal stance and its administrative actions.
There will be a throw away fop to the one club argument, saying that the guilty parties are no longer involved in football (Ha) and so the decision will please no one and leave the whole thing in a mess.
It will be designed to cause the least financial interruption to clubs like Partick Thistle, Aberdeen, and others who, although they have no time for the shenanigans that went on or the people who conducted them, will want to concentrate on their own financial business plans and improvement schemes.
They will genuinely believe that a proper review and its potential outcome will not be to their business advantage or in the best interests of their own club and business model as it will only take time and money and focus on issues that have little or nothing to do with them and goes contrary to the advice provided by the legals consulted by the footballing authorities.
In short, they simply will not want to know and hope that you, me and others will all move on.
If Celtic want to take the matter on then it will be portrayed in the press as a Celtic v Rangers thing — which after all is good for the game and drives up the box office.
If Celtic fans walk out on the club then that will leave Celtic financially weaker and so ensure a closer run league title race in the future — and that is obviously good for the box office and the next TV contract (maybe).
Effectively, such a stance absolutely secures some kind of legal challenge from somewhere in my opinion.
It is a stance which is wholly wrong, immoral, lacking in sporting integrity, ignores the rationale set out in various CAS cases and makes a mockery of all Scottish Football Administration. It shows clearly that there is no point to Scottish Football — none whatsoever — and leaves Celtic Football Club in a position where they will play no one of any sporting merit domestically (so why turn up to see them?) and participating in a sporting context where many fans have no time at all for the sporting structure concerned.
If there is a way forward for the “Celtic” club, as it was referred to in the old days, then it may be that it has to be without a football team at all with the club pursuing another endeavour entirely.
Then again, I could be wrong and the SPFL statement will say something completely different and I will be shown to be no more than a grumpy old curmudgeon who doesn’t know what he is talking about.
Further, many people may feel differently and will just accept whatever is handed down by the football authorities and go along with it all until these days pass into oblivion and are forgotten about …… tra la la la lee…………….
JJ
Doors rattled by Police Scotland
Advice is not to answer as no warrants at this time so don’t go near your door..
SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 25TH JULY 2017 9:15 AM
Fair enough, point taken. I humbly apolagise to the numpty better known as Bankiebhoy.
I should explain, I did meet him before in a previous life. He allegedly tried to take advantage of my wife back then. I have footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDe9msExUK8
Off to work.
BT, thanks for the clarification.
Come-on Celtic a clarification is all that’s needed here. You better than anyone know what your dealing with.
We’re all behind the Club.
HH & Prayers for all Tims and in particular those mentioned by BT and their families.
Morning all from the top of a number 7 bus.
I am trying to remember if a thread ever made it this far although I would assume that P67 will break with his well established tradition and post a new article much earlier than usual in the day. He always seems to when I have started a post whatever the time of day.Anyway I doubt that many will read this as I jave never been one of CQN’s “go to’ posters- not so much a happy clapper, moon howler or middle grounder as a scrolled bye-ee
Tomorrow is a massive game and yet here at least almost nobody is talking about it. Events off the park have turned this summer into one of the most personally dispiriting ones in my support of Celtic – a personal support now in its 51 season.
The other massively unhappy summers were 1983, 1999 and 2005. All of them followed rotten ends to season and changes to manager that I was not enthusisastic about but this summer follows on from a season which may well be as good as we can ever have. The trigger for the discontent was not the bizarre, flying in the face of not just logic but the law reactions of the Scottish football authorities to the verdict of the Supreme Court. The actual trigger for discontent was the signing of Jonny Hayes whose capture was seen here and elsewhere as evidence that the board was as unambitious as ever. In Brendan we trust? Not here if it means you can dust down your discontent and discard the sense of well being that you uneasily adopted last season. Even before yhe Supreme Court verdict the mood had changed for a lot of our fans.
I can understand why the reaction of the SFA/SPFL to the verdict has engendered such a counter reaction here as well as amongst the wider Celtic support and beyond. It is only football I know and is not quite worthy of hundreds of thousands pouring onto the streets a la Warsaw but it is still an example of those at the top acting in their own interests and those in a chosen minority. There is nothing I and we can do that will guarantee justice being served properly within Scottish football. But try we must.
Boycotts are suggested – usually by people who, because of choice or geographic location, don’t attend Celtic matches anyway. I do though think that if the supports of all clubs affected- ie those who played in Scottish leagues between 1998 and 2011 not known as Rangers- take part in such a boycott then it might work. It would be hard to organise and have to be almost universally followed to have any chance of succeeding. At the end of a week I am desperate to see my team play because mostly I love going and I am not alone. Give up something I and a hundred thousand others love for an objective that might never be achieved? I would think that thousands who disapprove of what was done in those years would still go all the same. And the SFA/SPFL and the vested interests of the media would brass neck it as a result.
I have to go to work soon so will not be able to add to what has made this such a discontented summer on the football front. My thoughs on almost everything that surrounded the Linfield matches (except the overall result), the Green Brigade, possible exits of Stuart Armstrong and others as well as the tone of several posters on this blog which has disgusted me will all have to remain largely unsaid, inferred or implied.
Have a good day
Jimbo67
Fair enough Foxy but, as was said earlier, you cannot kid a kidder.
The guys that really contributed during The Troubles are not on here contributing wall-to-wall Rebs.
But, some of them are on here, and they have been speaking much sense this week.
Back to work for me now
ABURNTOUTCASE on 25TH JULY 2017 9:15 AM
Is anyone else having problems posting comments this morning?
####
No, if you’re reading this.
Yes, if you’re not.
clogher celt on 25th July 2017 9:00 am
Clogher, that is where being a legally acknowledged shareholder in a ltd company (PLC or private) comes into play.
Scotland does not have a class action legal system (unlike England) but as I mentioned earlier someone could seek to bring an action of Declarator and so ask the court to declare that they have the legal right to whole a trade body or association to account by way of a judicial review.
Such an action would not determine the merits of the case in point or the strength of any argument concerning LNS or anything else but would put the legal position of football fan with shares in a club front and centre,
But beware!
No club will necessarily welcome such an action and you will have a winner take all shoot out.
If the football fan (shareholder) wins then football will be forever accountable to a fan of any colour or hue who may have a beef with authority and football will not want that.
Equally, should the football fan lose, then the fans are at the back of the bus and the game will be run by the clubs, for the clubs, and in the interest of the clubs with the cause of the football fan and supporter representation diminished and damaged for a long time.
Such an action and decision may well have an impact on the value of shareholdings such as in a PLC structure and may be harmful to future football investment overall to the detriment of Scottish Football, European Football and beyond.
There is an awful lot to consider here which is why an open, honest, independent and complete review is what best serves football — not Celtic, not the SPFL, not you , me or supporters of particular clubs, or whoever but football in general.
SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 25TH JULY 2017 9:35 AM
Mo chara, I’m tempted to say the hypocrisy is dripping off you, but you know that much already.
HH (High Ho)
BRTH
“There is a lot of dirty politics at play but I can confirm that I was told unless fans of other clubs come out and rattle the cages of their own support and boardrooms there will be little action of any merit as most other clubs simply want to concentrate on staying afloat and balancing their books.”
**************
As in 2012, when just the threat of non-renewal of season tickets was enough to force the football ‘authorities’ and club chairmen to do the right thing with regard to Sevco’ s starting position in the SFL.
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/13235130.Clubs_vote_to_keep_Rangers_out_of_SPL/
Brogan…….
Thanks, exactly what I think will happen, tho I have to say I could have said it in one sentence :-)
Ernie
You`re worth your weight in gold. :>))
BROGAN ROGAN TREVINO AND HOGAN on 25TH JULY 2017 9:20 AM
If the SPFL decided to go for a review, notwithstanding any legal advice they had received, who could challenge them ie who would have right and title to sue?
BDO? No possible benefit to creditors, so that won’t happen.
The current version of the huns? And be asked to specify what right they have to challenge a decision that doesn’t affect them? Unlikely.
THE EXILED TIM on 25TH JULY 2017 8:46 AM
Brogan……
I accept that, but, the same law lords told us that they hid the side letters from the sfa and HMRC, that in itself is enough to hang them.
The article on E-TIMS this morning is saying the right question is not being asked.They say,the question that should be asked of any review is”Where the players registered correctly”.If not,then everything else should follow on.
To be honest,I am sick fed up.Every end seems to be a dead end.I now am of the thinking to say F—it all,and just watch Celtic hump every one of the “Could not give a toss”teams,and go from strength to strength.seems the only way to really sicken them.We will get no justice.I have given up on this Board seeking it,but Boards come and go,Celtic go on.
What’s the opposite of “Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this sun of York”?
Its over..the huns s have won celtic sre sham