If there is a hierarchy of Celtic royalty – those most of us would feel nervous in front of, Martin O’Neill is sitting on the throne. For those of us who are old enough, his impact on our lives is significant.
When he arrived in 2000, Celtic were marooned in the wilderness. An against-the-odds title win in 1998 was a fading memory as the Rangers motor picked up pace: 11 titles in 12 seasons, most of them won with plenty to spare.
On 26 August 2000, the world changed. Nothing has been the same since. We put six goals past Rangers, announcing not only that we were likely to win the league, but that this time, the foundations were built on granite. We lost five leagues in the 19 years since then, but even those seasons were tight, five won and lost on the final day. Martin was the enzyme for all of this.
His tactics were beautifully simple: be hard in the middle of the park, get the ball down the wing, have players there who can cross the ball, and have the best headers of the ball in the business there to attack those crosses.
It worked and then it stopped working. Alex McLeish won a treble with lesser players, because he figured out that playing three up against our back three was practically kryptonite to Celtic. Tactically, Martin had been rumbled, but his magical quality was never tactics.
Listen now to any of the players he had at Celtic and the respect they hold him in remains absolute. His sheer presence blew them away when he first met them in 2000, and for the next five years. They would run through walls for him. If he said “You’re one of the best players in this league” they played like one of the best players in the league, such was their faith in Martin.
Training sessions were left to others, tactical changes were anathema, key recruitment resources were largely SPL opponents and Match of the Day. The model had many weaknesses and would inevitably crash. Just as when Dalglish left Stein a generation earlier, when Larsson left O’Neill, the magic disappeared.
You and I know Martin’s tactical weaknesses at Celtic, so does he. He knows more about the management game than any of us, so he evolved; eventually, but this was not his natural territory. He was always playing catch up. The game has moved on and Martin’s principle strength, that significant force of personality, was never going to be enough.
He arrived in a militant Nottingham Forest dressing room that had seen off other managers. Roy Keane was his enforcer. If that’s all there was to the game, Forest would have flourished, but this is not the 60s. You can’t bully your way to authority.
I’ve seen enough managers and players to know they all ‘move on’ sooner than we do, and I’ve no illusions that Martin is an exception to this. He is an intelligent man and entitled to find things other than Celtic to fill his life. But still, Celtic Park is his, that is where his throne waits. He won the European Cup for Forest, not Celtic, but he changed our lives forever. For that, I will be eternally grateful, and always nervous in his company.
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Ron67,
When did KT say he wanted to leave, all we know is that the Plc are accepting offers as they value money over his contribution to the club.
LAZYDYNAMITE
Tottenham was better coach than Arsenal at the moment but that’s it and for how long?
They haven’t won the league in nearly 60 years, they’ve won 1 league cup in the last 18 years.
Until 2 years ago Tottenham finished below arsenal in the league for 22 seasons in a row
Tottenham has a
CELTIC40ME on 30TH JUNE 2019 7:55 PM
?
I don’t understand why you are asking me?
I am defending your opinion,I agree with you that Spurs are NOT a bigger club than Arsenal.
To me it is a completely wrong statement to say that Spurs are the bigger club.
I still do and always have had Arsenal as one of the big guns of English football….not so much Spurs.
CHAIRBHOY on 30TH JUNE 2019 6:53 PM
We agree that the manager wanted to keep players.
We agree that some players wanted to leave.
We agree that the manager would be willing to sell some players.
We agree that selling some players on fro increased value was written into their contracts.
We agree that Celtic’s business plan is to sell players, any players if their value is met & they want to go.
I agree that players from the development squad should have developed value OR to put it another way, that they are good enough for the club to play in the first team or retain until they are good enough.
Some players are happy with that scenario but many aren’t and they often choose to move on to smaller clubs for first team football.
I can’t agree that BR was the poor innocent dupe in all of this, that he ended up with players he didn’t want or that the players he wanted to keep were sold. The first player that he “lost” was Moussa & Rodgers himself was as much to blame for that sale, having persuaded the player to forego a lucrative offer in May/June. BR agreed to terms when he signed on at Celtic, terms that included the very same “buy cheap and sell dear model for certain players” that saw us sell Virgil the year before BR joined us.
Which players were sold that he wanted to keep?
Which players that he wanted to sell did the board refuse to sell? (ie the quantity not quality players)
Which players did he stop the board from selling?
Which players did he want that the club would not back him on?
The McGinn saga is not one of these examples just in case you intended to refer to that.
If a player wants to leave then the board will facilitate that because that is their job.
If the player wants more money & threatens to leave unless he gets what he wants, then the manager will sbe asked how badly he wants to keep that player & if he is willing to squander X pounds from his budget for him. The board then have to decided if their wage structure, upon which budgets are built around is to ignored for this player. I beleive that Henryk was the last person to be paid outside the wage structure.
I also don’t agree with the blank statement that once players reached a certain “value” whether created or developed – that they are sold. Some are sold and some remain. Scott Brown is a good example of the latter.
Clearly, the players age, injury history, personal circumstances and sundry other things will impact on whether a player wants to earn more money at the expense of other things.
I have not suggested anywhere that the board resisted the sale of players so I’m not sure why you referenced that. I did say that the club refused to sell Boyata for the reasons outlined earlier, but that would firstly have been a footbaling decision by the manager, and only then would the legal dimensions have been explored before his move was denied him. The club were obliged to allow some clubs to talk to some players – legally, and, just as legally when the manager wanted to retain a player they refused clubs permission to talk to the player. You seem to want to make this a choice for me between backing either the then manager or the board but that is based entirely on your narrative and personal mindset. I have a different narrative & mindset. I am not pre-disposed towards one or the other in most situations, preferring to assess each situation as best I can.
However, BR’s approach was designed to benefit himself ultimately, and as we saw his attachment to the club was as meaningful as his attachment to Reading or Swansea or Watford. The relationship between him & the CEO/Board collapsed for reasons that we’ll only find out about when all involved are allowed to give a full account – so never. Meanwhile, he took most of our backroom staff & is now, apparently, trying to sign some of our better players.
I admired him for most of his time at Celtic but the manner of his leaving & the few months prior to that departure have lowered him in my estimation.
HH
CANAMALAR IT LOOKS LIKE OCD OBSESSION
KT cannot be forced out the door , he is holding all the aces , he will decided when he goes , not the board.
LAZYDYNAMITE on 30TH JUNE 2019 8:14 PM
Haha, sorry. I wasnt arguing with you!
“Hoops flop gets the boot”
CQN at its most shameful.
No surprise I don’t look in very often.
Oh and 25m for a wee fullback who canny jump….get a life ffs.
Ron67,
KT is a dyed in the wool Tim, when the Plc tell him he is no longer wanted at the club and they’d prefer the money he is not going to argue with that.
CELTIC40ME on 30TH JUNE 2019 8:21 PM
hehe
No probs mate.Keep the posts coming.You speak a lot of sense.
cheers
I honestly don’t know which side in the Tierney debate is correct but if it is Canamalar and if Tierney is being forced out. then I will be totally disgusted. I understand the model of creating value and cashing in at appropriate time but the likes of a home grown lad who would rather stay then chase the big bucks is as rare as hen’s teeth, if Tierney doesn’t want to leave he most certainly should not be forced out.
Another angle to the KT debate, he’s been assaulted the past two seasons with no protection from the Mibs. All it takes is one mindless tackle from our agricultural SPL teams and career over. So perhaps he’s looking after himself, joined at seven and gives the club he loves millions, before he goes to an environment with proper refs!
Prestonpans…,
That would imply he has put in a transfer request
Canamalar,
Not necessarily, could be the result of events unfolding that it may have crossed his mind. Who knows, like you though I find the ‘hands off’ Calmac and the absence of a corresponding comment on KT odd to say the least
A Gun to the Head with Damon Albarn at Glastonbury….please do…
Fergus McCann’s legacy.
It’s difficult to be overly critical of the present incumbents.
Don’t blame the players… Blame the game(as they say in hip-hop).
Fergus was the only alternative in town.
We are in a good place right now though.
Tr3ble Tr3ble don’t forget.
Every footballer whom contributed are immortal, stay or go.
HH. ?
Whatever the actual truth of the matter is…………………….
no-one knows what’s going on….and that’s perfectly normal.
The net result of the speculation and conjecture tho’ favours those who’d see us weakened.
A weak Celtic is a guid thing for scoddland.
What we do know however is that sleekit huns will always turn events to their advantage, helped by the establishment meeja, fairytales or nightmares are made real…………….or more real than they might be.
We buy and sell players all the time.
Prestonpans..,,
I’d have thought captaining Celtic to a title would have been far higher on his list of ambitions than joining alsorans in England. While the money will be attractive to all mercenaries, the bhoy does not strike me as anything but an honest Tim living the dream and happy where he is. He negotiated a deal that he was very happy with, that was for five years.
Canamalar
Don’t disagree with you there or any of your posts today tbh
The KT situation is being overcomplicated on here.
It’s dead simple.
Arsenal phone PL and ask to speak to KT. PL says look, we know you’ve only got £45m so we’ll reluctantly take it – as long as we can have 10% of any sale on fee.
Take it or leave it.
That frees up PL to get a bloody right back signed!
BB
The Cure on soon. Cannae wait.
BTW That flag wae green and white hoops, had a yellow canary in the middle. It is a Norwich flag. Noticed it watching The Killers last night.
DD
I thought that too, tried to slow mo it, but couldn’t quite make it out
Prestonpans..,
I expect CMcG to go just before the window closes, I do not trust them one bit. It’s getting like the yanks, it’s safer and usually turns out to be more accurate to believe the exact opposite of everything they say.
Hans off CMcG is to scunner KT into believing he’s of less value to the club, so when he’s gone CMcG will be following him out the door and the offer will be touted as too good to refuse. And most on here will swallow it again, praising the greedy Plc for getting good money to lie in the bank.
Sell the lot of em
PRESTONPANS BHOYS on 30TH JUNE 2019 8:45 PM
——————————–
Money shot. ?
Billy bhoy,
Trick is PL will settle for anything in the region of half that.
He just needs to get him out the door so he can work on surprise big offere for other assets.
WITS,
Exactly, time to liquidate the assets we’ve go too many that might get hurt or worse, the later stages of the ECL, that would be a bummer eh.
It that the Cure on Glastonbury?
Mon the hoops
Greetings from Forres, had to make an unscheduled trip home.
A wee update for those who attended yesterday’s CQN summer bash at the Beer Cafe. The Three Amigos, Penfold, moi and BRTH became the Dynamic Duo when Penfold left, apparently jaiketless? A big thank you to BRTH’s good lady for taking me home to Dumbreck and having to listen to my inane p!sh.
Now the update – I have just posted a cheque for £50 to Mary’s Meals, this accounts for what was left in the kitty and rounded up to the nearest number that I could think of ?
I’m just waitin’ for Shaggy from Scooby Doo to grab Big Pedro, and whip aff his big, tanned, jowly mask to reveal,………………. ra Hooded Klaw………..!!!!!
IfItWasn’rForThesePeskyKids CSC
PB
Aye, Robert Smith wearing well. Saw them at Glastonbury in 1986. We all looked different then ?
Moussa Dembele, easily worth £75million yet we only got £19million.
The goals, some of the build up play as well though :
https://youtu.be/sK95n0L7YUI
Celtic have been brilliant these past three seasons they have.
HH. ?
CELTIC40ME @ 7:19 PM,
What I was getting at was that Spurs have the largest support round London.
Of course Arsenal are historically the most successful club in London and have a huge support.
Recently Chelsea have been more successful and are now the biggest London club by most metrics.
Where I come from, traditionaly all London Clubs were supported but being West of London Chelsea were always popular. So was QPR but not so much these days.
Recently Tottenham have been better supported as they’ve being playing at Wembley…
Yet traditionally London’s Jewish community have supported Spurs and they have a huge catchment area in North London and the Northern home counties, the biggest of all London Clubs.
Of course their lack of success has meant they’ve failed to exploit that potential. This has changed, as has been evidenced by the Wembley attendences and their new Stadium.
Chelsea have been throwing money at being successful while Arsenal have been very circumspect.
When Arsene Wenger started Arsenal needed money to pay for the building of their new Stadium. So they were a selling club.
However they still managed to produce great teams and win the league.
Once they finished the stadium it was thought that the extra income and reduced outgoings would mean a bright new dawn – they’d compete and once again beat Man U, Liverpool and Chelsea.
Of course that didn’t happen. They followed a business model that meant as long as Arsene Wenger got them into the Champions league they would keep selling.
In fact since the Emirates Stadium opened Arsenal haven’t won the league. Not at all what the gooners bought into.
They now find they’re is a top six instead of a top four in English football and they are the bottom of the pecking order.
If the sale of Newcastle United goes through and the new Arab owners invest like they have at Man City and PSG, they may find it difficult to get a UCL place.
They are spending £50M on transfers this season, that wouldn’t get you two Scottish left backs.
Meanwhile Spurs are forging ahead to try to be a European force.
Hail Hail
Difficult to believe this was 8 years ago, when Stokesie started the quest for the 10… I can remember it like yesterday :
https://youtu.be/968WRuqFKho
HH. ?
20 to 25 million is huge money to offer a Scottish club for a player. Absolutely huge and almost impossible to refuse.
Teams spending big money for players dont rate the SPL as a strong league.Celtic ‘s success with selling Wanyama and Van Dyke and Dembele has helped up the value of SPL players so the offers for Tierney have to be 20 million plus.
Yes its crazy that lesser players than Tierney go for 40 and 50 million but no club is going to pay that for him.(because of the league he plays in)
Thats the unfortunate reality of the market place at present.
As a Celtic fan i would like Tierney to stay,smashing player…but objectively it could be a great move for him.Better league,better money,better protection from referees, chance of competiting in the latter stages of European competition and the chance of improving as a player by testing yourself against better standard of opposition week in week out.
In an ideal world he could stay for 10 in.a row then move on.
Just remembered that Glastonbury 1986 had The Waterboys and The Pogues along wi The Cure. The rest was a haze for me. Great weekend I think.
This place has went to the dogs WITS 10.04pm posting without sarcasm that’s not the WITS we all know :-)
16roads 10.04pm
Stokesy saved our Neil that day ;-)
As for KT…. the bhoy is Celtic from the age of 7yr to 22yr old at Celtic Park, I really want him to stay but if the bhoy goes I wish him every success in the world … (the Maestro never left :-) although he did chuck his boots into the jungle with a tear in his eye
Only been lurking lately but for a good while now Fairhill Bhoy ?️♂️?️♂️ has been hinting that even Kieran’s dad might actually realise there is a big football world out there :-)
For the record Kieran is a far better full back than the Scottish champions league winner that plays with Liverpool
Again … I really hope he stays but the who knows
Anybody that thinks it’s the same as Brendan’s midnight flit ??? Kieran is a Celtic fan … from the age of 7