St Johnstone (through manager Steve Lomas) and Kilmarnock, through Rangers supporter (literal sense) Michael Johnston, have both declared their vote to allow a Newco to take Rangers place in the SPL next season. Celtic will vote against and Dundee United appear open to persuasion. The next most important team in the country is Motherwell.
Motherwell, alongside Celtic, Dundee United and St Johnstone have a place on the SPL board. They are migrating towards ownership and control by a large number of small supporter-shareholders, they’ve benefited from Rangers demise and in July will feature in the Champions League qualification draw, broadcast live from Monaco.
On the downside, despite their on-field success this season, the club will have to trim football budget for the coming season as Champions League qualifying money does not make up for earning less from cup runs this season and inflation pushing costs up.
Motherwell fans seemed to enjoy their visit to Ibrox on Saturday but does anyone expect them to vote against Rangers?
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Certainly neither Celtic or Admin FC have contradicted anything Doncaster has said
I hope the motherwell rep does vote against a newco getting straight in. I have several friends who support motherwell and hate the idea of rfcia getting back in and this seems a common feeling with supporters of that club.
however, money talks and I am worried that this will be a stitch up of shameful proportions where we will be shown once more that our club is not welcome but the money of our fans is most welcome indeed.
hope I am wrong, I really do.
The history argument is not a moot point. RFC PLC(IA) has accumulated numerous honours in its time as a member club of the SFA. It acquired numerous honours while simultaneously a member club of the SFL, and then again as a member club of the SPL.
Should it seek to transfer its share in the SPL, or its membership of the SFA, to a new club, it will cease to be a member of either SPL or SFA. It will be an ex-club. It will be very much dead. The new club would have the assets of the old club, inlcuding its membership of the SFA. The club which won all the titles etc will be gone. Finished. Liquidated.
There would require to be some sort of administrative skulduggery to award, for example, the 1993 SFL premier League Championshop to a team that only came into existence in 2012. The administrative skulduggery is a certainty, the acknowledgement of it by other clubs is not. We already hold ourselves as “always have been, always will be, Celtic” on the radio in ST adverts. Thje continuity of the corporate entity is hugely important. If Frankenstein FC want to kid on that they have won 54 League Championships when they’ve only existed for ten minutes then let them do it, we don’t need to consent to the charade. I’ve used the analogy before, but the story of the Emperor with no Clothes is a good one in regard to their “history” maintenance in a newco scenario.
If our hierarchy vote ‘Mississippi-Burning/newco’ into the SPL unscathed then, it’s the hierarchy who should be bhoycotted! IMO!
Hail Hail
….bear-faced liars.
Shameful.
Henriks Sombrero on 7 May, 2012 at 12:49 said:
What time is the meeting ?
Already started.
Just stopped for lunch.
Resumes this afternoon.
Meeting delayed because McCoist wants to know the names of the kitchen staff.
Its me, I’m beyon say
hoop hoop hoorayI
Exactly, can I do that too?
I will put my house and my possessions in an incubator company and tell the bank and mortgage company they are getting nothing. Somehow I think this will not work – If I changed my name by deed poll to Rangers then I might just get away with it :)
Pggtips
Neil Doncaster makes it up as he goes along.
For example, he said on Channel 4 News on April 3 that it was for the SPL member clubs to decide what rules they wanted to be governed by and for the SPL simply to apply those rules without fear or favour.
The quote is: “What we have to do at the centre is manage the competition, to apply the rules equally to all clubs without fear nor favour and that’s what we do.”
One week later he announced a series of proposed new rules that, at the moment anyway (pending further liquidation and Newco shenanigans), favour one club and one club only.
Ernie:
Your argument is consistent, logical, open, honest and fair. And I support it.
Look, strip away all the baloney here. They have no case for allowing Zombie FC to stay in the league beyond the commercial, and they have, in their ridiculous way, built for us the very argument which will stop it.
The league needs these two teams.
Celtic CAN AND WOULD win this argument in a flash IF we were willing to go right to the wire, and tell the SPL that the option of having both clubs in the league is NOT on the table. There are legal obstacles, but I am sure we have good lawyers, and those lawyers could get around us giving a notice period to the SPL to resign, and apply for the SFL.
The international headlines this would create would be enormous. We would remove Rangers argument for survival at a stroke, and EVEN IF WE DID NOT, we would hold up to the world, UEFA and FIFA especially, just what a corrupt joke this league we are in is.
It is a “no lose” strategy. I believe the SPL would fold the hand and accept the inevitability of having to apply the rules fairly. I do not believe we would ever have to leave the league. I believe these people are yellow to the core.
No-one will EVER convince me we could not stop this if we had the guts. This is only one way in which it could be done. The other would be to hand in our three year notice, which would demolish the Sky deal and numerous other sponsorship deals in an instant, and have the same impact as no Rangers in the league. We would then have three years to explore our legal options, and in the end there is always some form of SFA league, as they’ve threatened.
Another way, again, would be to threaten action in the courts, which would involve UEFA whether they liked it or not.
There ARE ways of stopping this. A vote is NOT all we have. Aside from the various legal powers at our disposal we also have the moral force of Right on our side. Too many people are treating this is a football matter only; it is not. It is a gigantic fraud against the tax payer.
That headline does not instil a great deal of confidence!
Celtic_First on 7 May, 2012 at 13:02
My point is that Celtic and Admin FC are allowing Doncaster carte-blanche to make the case whatever way will get the deal done.
If that means making it up as he goes along, so be it.
A sad day it is, to rely on Motherwell.
Pggtips
Let’s see what happens at the vote and what Celtic say afterwards. The statements from Peter Lawwell earlier in this debacle completely fly in the face of what Neil Doncaster has been saying. Doncaster thinks our heads button up the back. Peter Lawwell knows they don’t.
Ach lets stop moaning and get on with it. No harm done eh?
cheers Iki
I would totally support Celtic telling the spl they can either have us or them.
Todays Vote:
Should Sir David Murray get let off from the public lynch mob ?
Vote: Yes
or
Don´t Know
Hail Hail
Paul 67
Interesting the importance of Motherwell in you’re article.
I work with quite a few M/well fans who refer to the huns as – huns.
Anyway, a lot of thoughts/views have been exchanged since the huns went into administration and, the majority of M/well fans, that i speak to opine that…..
SKY TV Deal should be ripped-up
Cheating huns should be put out of league
Kick-off times due to TV have to be changed to 3:00 on sats
Celtic fans made to stop singing about IRA
Hail Hail
Today is about changing the rules. Preparing the groundwork if you like for the proposed share transfer that is to come.
It has been presented as a bad thing for Newco because the Cheats’ Charter would impose penalties. But the reality is that it opens up the door for the Newco in the first place.
I have no faith in Scottish football clubs standing up to this proposed selling of integrity.
But I do have faith in Michel Platini’s UEFA refusing to allow a Newco the exception to Financial Fair Play rules that it would need to play in the SPL.
ernie lynch / James Forrest.
Yes ——-
Continuing to play in a corrupt joke makes you complicit .
Kev Jungle.
That may well be the case, but this has already been confirmed by the SPL fans survey that overwhelmingly suggested huns to do one.
Unfortunately, it’s not up to the fans..
Gordon J
And the SFA? The SFA has to apply the rules, the proper ones, not the ones Neil Doncaster is making up as he goes along. The SFA is het.
JAMES FORREST 1302
As I replied to EL on the earlier thread,you are expecting US to relegate ourselves VOLUNTARILY because the huns cheated.
Down THREE divisions.
By the time we got back,the huns still would not have stopped laughing.
Look,this is not a time for sackcloth and ashes,nor manifestations of victimhood.
This is NOT a time for a candlelight vigil or singing “We Shall Overcome”,ffs.
Nor “Something Inside So Strong” for that matter.
This isnae a time for bloody gestures,and the sooner everyone realises that,the better.
This is a time for the fans and the club to unite and use EVERY means necessary to prove that what is being attempted/done is against the laws of the land,and against the laws of the sport.
And you offer us f…..g gestures,ffs!
Celtic_First
The SFA is het.
Haven´t heard that for years.
Brought a smile to my face
Thanks
Hail Hail
Awe Naw
I vote you to explain it to Stewart and Michel.
news in from the SFA………………………….
…………………………
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.
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…………………………….
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Nothing……………… just kidding
BigJoecannyhelpIT
Paul67
The fact that Craig Brown was welcomed to Fir Park by a gentleman doing a very funny handshake answers your question I fear.
Hope I’m wrong but the majority of Well fans I know are Rangers fans without the bus fare.
“If Hunco are not parachuted straight back into the SPHell then there will be no TV deal”- how exactly has this misconception taken hold so steadfastly?
There will be NO TV DEAL, at all. Suddenly Celtic & their worldwide audience holds absolutely no sway without the mighty Glasgow Rangers. Our support is bigger than theirs! I could not make head nor tail of Thompson’s remarks in his interview yesterday: how can there be a short-fall of a million just because the huns are not in the league? Have I missed something somewhere?
Does that mean der hun generate £1,000,000 for a team like Utd but the rest of the clubs, including little old Celtic, only generate £2-300,000?
None of this makes any sense to me.
Celtic_First,
The SFA must refuse to allow the Newco a Club License, without which it cannot play in the SPL. It simply cannot overturn the rules – only UEFA can allow an exception.
Celtic_First on 7 May, 2012 at 12:56 said:
”Ernie
Thanks for your answer. Not wishing to start an argument with you, but I would strongly contend that Celtic’s reputation, not least with Michel Platini and all supporters of financial fair play, is entirely intact at the moment”
At the moment, yes.
IF Celtic allow a newco straight into the SPL (and it will only happen if Celtic allow it) then, I’m sorry, but our integrity will be gone. We will be condoning, for our own gain, all that has happened.
Celtic_First
it definitely needs explaining to them I think I would ask Karl Heinz Rumenigge for haunders ;-)
Hail Hail
And UEFA will allow that exception. Astonishing faith you have in UEFA.
…………..
Celtic_First,
The SFA must refuse to allow the Newco a Club License, without which it cannot play in the SPL. It simply cannot overturn the rules – only UEFA can allow an exception.
Gordon J
Agreed. And if the SFA go crawling to UEFA to ask for an exception to be made for the club that has perpetrated the biggest ever scandal [on the field and off it] in sport anywhere in the UK (copyright Thomson, A.), it would need to resign as a member of the IFAB right away.
Som mes que un club on 7 May, 2012 at 13:11 said:
…………………………………………………..
Yeah, sad but true.
Lets wait and see….
Hail Hail
Question for the gang of ten
I say ten because I don’t for one single minute see what benefit Celtic will gain from voting in favour of the huns, they will only incur the wrath of their own fhans.
Anyway the questions are
What amount of debt would the team formerly known as rangers Rangers need to accumulate, before you voted them out?
eg would you vote them out if they 200 million quid worth of debt? What about half a billion worth of debt? Is there any line in the sand where you could not vote in favour of the team formerly known as rangers?
What about 2 contracts? how many years would the team formerly known as rangers need to have been operating a dual contract system before you voted them out, 10 years, 20 years half a century maybe?
Or is it a fact that no matter what the team formerly known as rangers did, you could not find any circumstances in which they should be banned from the SPL for at least 1 season?
Never mind the jobs of the folk at Ibrox, think instead of the 100 million quid that is missing from the public purse. Who will make up the shortfall? You and me, the taxpayer?
What if they refused to sign players of a particular ethnic background for say 100 years? Would that be grounds to take action?
We thought we were witnessing the downfall of the huns and we are, because the minute the huns start the season as the newco, then the team formerly known as rangers are officially no more, but if the SPL take this step they will witness the demise of the struggling SPL
For me Its relegation for them, but if not then as a very minimum
Oldco Stripped of previous titles (to recognise previous misdemeanours)
No newco history amalgamation capers (to recognise newco did in fact walk away)
12 points deduction for 3 years (to compensate teams who suffered under previous misdemeanours)
No European football for 5 years(to further compensate teams who suffered under previous misdemeanours)
All football debts still apply and transfer embargo remains in place until then
thereafter All transfers paid in advance (no credit) for 12 months
Newco must operate from day 1 in accordance with fifa fair play regulations, even before the rest of the SPL do so.
Why are they even having this vote. Rules should not be changed in the middle of this fiasco.
Strikes me that none of footballs governing bodies have the guts to pull the plug themselves. Someone should explain to them that their reason for existing is to govern the sport – so get on with it SPL SFA SFL Eufa – they are usually not slow in making their feelings known and dishing out punishments.
Why have they put other clubs in this awkward situation where they have to vote, and have to consider between sporting integrity and money – fans and boards. Its not fair on the clubs, and sets a precedent for the future for contentious issues the governing bodies dont want to deal with.
Just read the SPL survey.
The fact that the SPL board would ignore their own fans is just ridiculous. Even Rangers own fans don’t want to go back into the SPL.
The much lower than average response amongst Rangers fans is evidence that if they had voted, their default response would be ‘did the crime, do the time’ just as fans of other teams want.