You know what side of society you live in when the print and online media carry claims from former Hearts chairman, Leslie Deans, that a football game should be replayed because a player was hit by a missile.
It is to the credit of the player in question, Barrie McKay, that he made nothing of the cup thrown at him, but when we have seen actual assaults on Celtic players on the field at Ibrox in recent seasons pass with scarcely a mention, you see the context of life in Scotland.
Digging out these relics of a former era to make completely untrue allegations (that Celtic have not issued apologies) is the extent to which some will go to establish an impression that Celtic and their fans are dishonourable beneficiaries of illicit gains. Before you get into it, all charges against solicitor Deans were dropped five years ago, there are no criminal charges outstanding. His character remains as it was.
The motivation of Deans, the journalist who quoted him, or the many others who make a living by having a kick at Celtic, are different, but the effect is the same. To win as we have in recent seasons, Celtic need to be exceptional.
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i have some inside knowledge of the celtic boardroom and i know to a man they are major fans of the green brigades drum
and i know they would be devestated if the drum was to be silenced
so if the GB really want to stick it to the board they should announce that their drum will be silent for the rest of the season
👍
Hot Smoked
We complain about the authorities but we need to do all we can to help ourselves. The team and Ange need to have as few distraction as possible
They must know they’ll get what they want – they can’t possibly think they’ll be allowed to choose who polices them – so this won’t end soon.
They need to think who their silence affects most.
Should read
They must know they’ll never get what they want
There was a discussion on CL qualification on the last thread, and the correlation between number of qualification rounds and chances of making the CL proper. I calculated (and posted) at the time our chances of making the CL this year at around 1 in 5 at best which was based a variety of available factors such as squad market value, best 11 value, and UEFA coefficients. Eleven teams would be involved in the 3 rounds Celtic would have to play this year (including some big names), with only two places in the CL grp stage ultimately available.
To provide further historical context, let’s look at our performances this century. In the 22 seasons (including this season) since 00/01 we’ve entered the CL competition a total of 20 times, and the EL the remaining 2 seasons. Of those 20 CL entries we’ve managed to navigate the qualifiers and make the grp stage 10 times, in each of the remaining seasons except one (05/06 and Artmedia Bratislava) we’ve dropped comfortably into the EL grp stage.
However, and here’s the rub, 8 of those 10 CL grp stage appearances came in the 14 seasons before the 14/15 season. In the 8 seasons since 14/15 we’ve only made the CL grp stage twice. That’s a pre-14/15 chance of progression of 57%, which drops to 25% from 14/15 onwards. It’s worth considering why this is and what other data is relevant.
In the seasons up to 14/15 we played an average of 1.3 qualifiers to reach the grp stage, in the seasons from 14/15 the average number of qualifiers was 3.4. Yes the quality of teams wasn’t always great, but try to win 3 or 4 consecutive games against teams who are still generally far better than other SPFL teams, who by the way were regularly being put out of the Europe in July by Molde, Rijeka and Connah’s Quay Nomads.
The next obvious question is why the number of qualifiers was increasing, and again there’s an obvious but probably unpalatable answer. With only one Scottish club making any kind of progress in Europe the country coefficient was gradually eroding over time, and it’s country coefficient which determines what stage your team enters the qualifying rounds. It’s no coincidence this bit particularly hard from 14/15 as UEFA considers the last 3 years performance.
What’s the conclusion? If you haven’t worked it out yet here’s a hard truth for you, one the cashflow focused businessmen in the boardroom worked out long ago. If you want to maximise your chance of making the CL grp stages and have access to the revenue that generates, you need sevco existing, performing and propping up the UEFA coefficient. Personally I could live without sevco and all that entails, but I’m not running a business.
i think our inability to defend against even middle of the road Euro sides can provide an easier explanation than all of that
and it has been going on for years
LETS ALL DO THE HUDDLE on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 3:44 PM
:-)))))
OK let’s indulge the GB et al. Who would be acceptable to them as head of safety and security.? Ballot them and let’s hear the results.
The head of safety and security may be a pain in the ar@e to some as it could cramp their style, however to the many families who take young children it maybe isTHE most important appointment at Celtic Park.
Let’s not forget that.
HH.
Chairbhoy @ 5.07
“With all due respect TBB got those odds wrong.
He failed to take into account the seeding and Co-eff of Celtic and the weighting the “Champions Route” afforded. “
If he did take this weight into account, what weight would you give it? How often does the favoured team lose a football match? Is that statistic reliable acoss all standards of football? Is it a smaller or a bigger risk when you are facing other countries Champion team? I don’t know the answer to that one , do you?
But even if you did add a weighting it should become a smaller weighting, surely, as you progress through each qualifying stage , so that the overall trend which I highlighted remains intact.
i.e. That, though Celtic are favourites in most qualifying rounds, their odds of qualifying can drop to 50% or below since, if you have enough qualifying ties, and you have enough chances for an underdog to tiumph, they will take one. Celtic can be favourites to overcome individuals A, they may be favorites to overcome individuals B, still favourites to overcome individuals C, and even marginal favourites to overcome individuals D.
But they remain 50/50 at best to overcome A then B then C then D cumulatively. Surely you understand that basic statistical precept.
We used money we already had, money generated by previous European campaigns and player sales.
Money that was not made available to Lenny or Ronny.
We then qualified for the UCL proper and in a couple of seasons gained co-eff points and seeding to make us a UCL tier three Club.
Exactly as predicted.
And yet we got a 4th pace in the CL, a 3rd place on the back of a single win and 5 defeats, many historically heavy, and then a failed CL qualifying campaign.
So NOT exactly as predicted. Therefore, you have to invent a reason for that to be so and the catch all “explain it away” is that the Board, who you felt had backed and spent on their coach for 2 years suddenly got cold feet when we were on the brink of doing something big. Nothing at all to do with a coach who had bought players like Toure , Gamboa and De Vries. Nothing at all to do with a coach, who, having restored his justified rep as a coach, had more than one eye on a way back to a bigger job and who had been less than honest with the Board in informing his employers of his “sounding out of opportunities”?
How do you keep a coach at a small club when he is being sought by bigger spending outfits? You can’t. No more than you can with a player who performs well for us. Kyogo and Jota, if they keep up current levels, are unlikely to last 2 seasons with us. This is a fact of life that even Tier 2 clubs like Ajax and Benfica recognise. Good coaches and good players have ambitions too and, majorly, that is to test themselves in the most competitive leagues with the most competitive clubs they can find.
Celtic, in the current environment, are condemned to perpetual re-build. Most clubs are.
But the revenue available to do that pales in comparison to even makeweight clubs in the big leagues. We are predated upon by Southampton. Leverkusen and Brentford FFS. That is an undeniable truth. Virgil Van Dijk, Fraser Forster, Stuart Armstrong, Jeremie Frimpong and Kris Ajer did not depart as unwilling Jimmy McGrory types. They actively welcomed their moves, as did Brendan Rodgers.
Accepting your own state and position is the first step to becoming as good as you can be. Pretending that you are really good, when you are average or poor, will not make you a better performer. That is “fur coats and nae knickers” thinking
With hindsight it had no merit whatsoever and it was proven to have no merit. So your argument must be consigned to the dustbin where it belongs.
You have declared yourself the winner here but you have not shown the evidence that you finished ahead.
We now have a manager who is ambitious, capable, optimistic and most importantly takes responsibility.
Something sadly lacking in previous seasons.
If he’s backed and of course that is a huge “IF” as things stand. We can again achieve UCL status.
When you advance a hypothesis they need to be testable. Your combination has the testable prediction
i.e. Ange is ambitious so we should achieve higher success
But it also states the “get out” clause
i.e. In the event of any unforeseen failure of this prediction to occur, blame will be attributed to the Suits as they couldn’t have been ambitious enough.
Because it predicts success AND it accounts for failure, it is a prediction that cannot be argued against. It is a closed off loop so I cannot find any fault in it.
My more testable prediction is that Ange will be good for us. He will develop players during coaching sessions and we will beat a good team one day. We might even have a good season in the CL. Qualifying is not beyond us though reaching a quarter final would be a shock to me and many. It is now 41 years since we were last at that level and, back then, we only had to beat 2 teams to get there (that old cumulative odds conundrum again).
But while we are under the current economic laws of football, we won’t reach a CL final, we won’t win a Europa Final (It has been dominated by English and Spanish clubs since 2010- Benfica have twice lost the final as have Marseille and Ajax- the only genuine minnow allowed a place at the second top table was Dnipro who lost 3:2 in 2015. Contrast that with the previous decade when we had Braga, Fulham, Rangers, Middlesboro, Celtic , Feyenoord and Alaves reaching the final )
Even Ajax struggle to rinse and repeat. After their great run to the CL semis in 2019, they were stripped of all their best and a few of their journeymen players. The next year they were forced to play 2 CL qualifying rounds where they had agg. scores of 5:4 against PAOK and 2:0 against Apoel. On reaching Group Stage they got 3 wins and a draw to get 3rd place and a drop into Europa, where they lost in the last 32 to Getafe (NL achieved this twice). In 20/21), they got automatic entry into CL group and got 2 wins and a draw to finish 3rd and earn Europa again, where they made the q-finals losing to Roma. Automatic entry again this year has seen a marvellous 6 out of 6 Group Stages wins. This team will be getting raided again, probably in January for their talent, so do not expect they will get past the quarters despite this wonderful showing.
My predictions do not have any caveats and I am happy to answer for them.
OK let’s indulge the GB et al. Who would be acceptable to them as head of safety and security.? Ballot them and let’s hear the results.
—
they have singled out 1 person as being not acceptable
and for reasons that many agree with
its not as if they have argued against numerous candidates that have come forward so i dont think the question is valid or is a natural follow-on from the various supporters groups statements
unless you know otherwise then the assumption should be that there is no issue with any other candidates
LETS ALL DO THE HUDDLE on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 3:40 PM
it wasnt that long ago i found out what a Drover was, i assume the pub is named after such people
jeez, they had a hard job!
———-
They ‘drove’ the animals into the abattoir in Gallowgate, hence the pub is called Drover’s and across from the old abattoir. There is a statue to a cow there and it has a plaque for sightseers. I was drinking outside in the summer (West Ham game) and a euro back packer wandered up with a Lonely planet book to check it off. The scene in Trainspotting when the US tourist asks to use the toilet sprang to mind
AN TEARMANN on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 3:19 PM
Britnat vermin on along side tonyblair acolytes.
And using the word cult too.
Ah bliss smiling
Ernie you voted for a cult that murdered 250 000 Iraqis.you calling anyone as a cult member is funny
Sad tho
###
As I recall opposition to the Iraq war was lead by, amongst others, many Labour MPs (Benn, Cook, Corbyn etc).
That’s the difference between a normal political party and a cult like the SNP. Dissent is allowed. Debate is encouraged.
SNP politicians aren’t allowed to dissent. It’s forbidden. End of. That’s a cult.
One other thing, do you regard Bertie Auld as having been ‘Britnat vermin’?
Park the bus get into next round.
Park the bus get into next round.
Park the bus get into next round.
Park the bus get into next round.
Park the bus get into next round.
Park the bus get into next round.
Or kid on we’re the Lisbon Lion’s with the dafty Celtic way managerial grave yard naive bullsh*t, costing ££££millions, year in, year out?
LETS ALL DO THE HUDDLE on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 4:14 PM
Do you really think they would be happy with anyone from a position of authority. ? In general youth resent authority. We have all been there.
To reiterate, it’s not all about who the GB want, what do families with young children want, after all we promote ourselves as a family club.
HH.
They ‘drove’ the animals into the abattoir in Gallowgate, hence the pub is called Drover’s and across from the old abattoir
—
and Drovers had to walk the cattle to markets which could have been several weeks walk away before the invention of trains
nightmare job
Higgins should be nowhere near our club, it’s not just the GB that have formed that opinion,
However, a silent protest is more about them than the issue itself and may actually hurt the players so that should be a non starter. They do think they are the only voice of the support though….
Do you really think they would be happy with anyone from a position of authority. ? In general youth resent authority. We have all been there.
To reiterate, it’s not all about who the GB want, what do families with young children want, after all we promote ourselves as a family club.
—-
this isnt all about the GB as im sure you are aware by now
but you are dealing in unfounded speculation – you have extrapolated 1 person to mean anyone in authority
where is your evidence to support this?
have the fans complained about any previous holders of the job?
come back to me when the next candidate gets announced and we get the same reaction
but to add, i would find it very difficult to see how any current or previous senior scottish police officer would be a good fit into our club
LETS ALL DO THE HUDDLE on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 4:25 PM
They ‘drove’ the animals into the abattoir in Gallowgate, hence the pub is called Drover’s and across from the old abattoir
—
and Drovers had to walk the cattle to markets which could have been several weeks walk away before the invention of trains
nightmare job
###
It was a demanding and responsible high status occupation.
Farmers had to have absolute faith in them to hand over their cattle and entrust them to get them safely to market in good condition, get the best price for them and return with the money.
Also, and this might interest our Stornoway correspondent, they would supplement their diet by letting some blood from the cattle and mixing it with oatmeal and onions and frying it up. I used to think that vegetarian black pudding (the pig had a nose bleed) was just a joke, but apparently not in this case.
LETS ALL DO THE HUDDLE on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 4:37 PM
PC Lustig would be my choice.
best line i ever heard from a cop at the football –
fan to policewoman on horseback outside the old jungle – “your horse is sweating a bit there officer”
policewoman responds – “so would you be if you were between my legs”
no answer to that 😀
A silent protest is appropriate because it’s a harbinger and warning of what would result from Higgins appointment.
PC Lustig would be my choice.
—
i have noticed his impartiality in the past so he may be acceptable!!!
LETS ALL DO THE HUDDLE on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 4:37 PM
“but to add, i would find it very difficult to see how any current or previous senior scottish police officer would be a good fit into our club”
The vast majority might be all, have been the occupiers of that office at Celtic Park, por cierto.
ERNIE LYNCH on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 4:42 PM
“A silent protest is appropriate because it’s a harbinger and warning of what would result from Higgins appointment.”
Jeez oh ERNIE, I’m nodding in total agreement with that post, no, seriously, it’s a scenario that could lead to a realistic outcome, por cierto.
The vast majority might be all, have been the occupiers of that office at Celtic Park, por cierto.
—
possibly
but the landscape has changed over the years in terms of the overt difference in how our fans are treated compared to other clubs fans by the police
social media has maybe just highlighted it more in recent years but that doesnt make it any more acceptable
LETS ALL DO THE HUDDLE on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 4:55 PM
“social media has maybe just highlighted it more in recent years but that doesnt make it any more acceptable”
No, I agree, por cierto
and previous points about the police just applying the governments laws is totally irrelevant in the discussion about whether Higgins is suitable for such a position in our club
Neither Celtic nor Betis can change their respective positions in the group tomorrow night but I still think Ange will treat it as an important game. It is a chance for some of the squad to step up, against quality opposition, and deliver an 8/10 display.
The game this time last year, versus current French champions Lille, was the breakthrough game for Turnbull and Soro. Turnbull has kept the jersey but, for some reason, Soro has gone backwards in his development. Pity, as there is a player there.
There is also the not to be sniffed at £525k for winning and £175k for a draw. Useful cash, especially when the first invoice from Lawwell Consultancy Services Ltd drops through the letterbox at the end of the year.
though i have to say in this whole episode i havent actually heard the PLC come out and say that they are planning on appointing him
are they stringing everyone along a bit by their silence?
what is their game-plan here?
i cant work it out to be honest
Toaty Trumper @ school leaving time
Funny how you only found Iraq on a map after the necessary but fatally flawed 2003 clustershambles.
And to think you spent the late eighties dreaming of the riches awaiting you in the City of London as you practiced counting beans.
So very quiet when Maggie / RR allowed SH to gas Iranians / Kurds to his heart’s content and nothing was said as we sold him the chemicals and built his planes and guns.
I get the impression that if Hitler had only persecuted Germans and refrained from foreign adventures you would have let him off with a warning.
SH had to go — 18 years too late / after he started using chemical weapons — but he had to go.
You have a comparison to make but you don’t for obvious reasons.
Syria 2011 till now vs Iraq with SH left to his own devices.
At some point the lid would have come off a SH led Iraq — if he had been left alone in 2003 — and Syria today provides a very good pointer to the level of chaos and carnage that would have ensued.
Any chance you could provide a reasoned response rather than the usual frontier gibberish?
No, I agree, por cierto
LETS ALL DO THE HUDDLE on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 5:00 PM
and previous points about the police just applying the governments laws is totally irrelevant in the discussion about whether Higgins is suitable for such a position in our club
————–
Totally disagree. The organ grinder whose orders Higgins followed is absolutely relevant. Indeed it is the crux of the matter.
tomorrows game is important to Ange for exactly that reason – to get quality game time into those players who are usually on the bench
it has been very noticeable that our level drops a lot when we make subs.
some of that is to do with the general process of making a lot of subs can break the rhythm of the game
but much of it is because the subs arent up to the level of those they replace
Ange knows he is going to need a proper squad to win the league so this is their chance
Is there credible evidence against the named cop? Genuine or the same pish from last week (tickets issued to charity vans)
Who has this evidence. I’m not seeing much.
I agree that the GB, and others, may not accept any person of authority.
Possibly we could appoint Peter Grant and Greta Thunberg?
SFTB aka Eyore @ 4.12
Some amount of effort to show off your total lack of ambition.
The CL is not for the likes of us so don’t get your hopes up.
What total rubbish.
Without 24 months of NL / PL inspired decline followed by a complete implosion we would have been in great place this season to welcome AP to CP and let him build on strong foundations.
Unfortunately we were a train wreck interested only in balancing the books through player sales and picking up who we could find — with PL agent pals and PL friendly deals first on the list.
Totally disagree. The organ grinder whose orders Higgins followed is absolutely relevant. Indeed it is the crux of the matter.
—-
so why is it relevant to whether Higgins is suitable for this job at Celtic?
are you saying – ignore everything he has done before, none of it is his fault?
behave
GREENPINATA on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 5:07 PM
“No, I agree, por cierto”
LETS ALL DO THE HUDDLE on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 5:00 PM
“and previous points about the police just applying the governments laws is totally irrelevant in the discussion about whether Higgins is suitable for such a position in our club”
“Totally disagree. The organ grinder whose orders Higgins followed is absolutely relevant. Indeed it is the crux of the matter.”
==================================================================================
This was what I was agreeing with, his appointment, if it were to happen, not the above.
LETS ALL DO THE HUDDLE on 8TH DECEMBER 2021 4:55 PM
“social media has maybe just highlighted it more in recent years but that doesnt make it any more acceptable”
por cierto.
Possibly we could appoint Peter Grant and Greta Thunberg?
—
please not Greta
Higgins will be next years season ticket sales deceit, just like Lawwell was this years deceit.
Lawwell has resigned!
Awe naw Lawwell hizny resigned!
Incoming Higgins, Celtic PLC, ScottishAnti-Celtic-govt, all of these things come about because fraudulent, two faced (maybe more faced than two) Celtic ticket customers, who buy tickets knowing full well that their ticket monies have to be filtered through PLC hands before, or if, any of that money reaches the team on the pitch, and voting for a political party that can barely conceal it’s hatred of…
Celts
Irish
Catholics
All immigrants (despite the Scots-MSM lies)
Children
Women
English people
Jesus
Socialists
Gypsies
Homeless people
The Working Classes – as “ALL” Scots political parties demonstrated with their entitled sneering at striking bin collectors who were emptying bins with rats jumping out on them!
If you are a Celtic ticket customer who’s political preferences consequences are indicated above, and the subsequent consequences of your voting choices are in direct conflict with ‘any’ of Celtic FC’s operational aims, then you represent a direct danger to Celtic fc, and to Celtic’s charitable concepts.
If you now realise these dangers, and then continue to fuel these dangers, by your political choices, which might represent your own interests, and that would be your business.
But if you knowingly, make a political choice which might represent a danger to any of these areas above, then you are fueling a direct danger for Celtic fc, and a reminder that, “a club open to all” does not mean, “a club open to double agents, were half of that duality is a danger to Celtic, and its charitable concepts” and if this is the case?
Then your details should be noted, and removal of ticket would be a justified outcome.
What bit of that 👆 is wrong apart from spelling comas spacing etc?
Sack the 53,000 dreamers CSC