Mr Green and his invidious meetings


Information leaked from Charles Green that he is due to meet Celtic chief executive, Peter Lawwell today.  I’ve no idea if it’s true (sooo many wrong steers from over there) but, if accurate, it puts our man in an invidious position.  Mr Green appears generous when reviewing the success of meetings.

At his infamous ‘Blood on their hands’ press conference, would-be-pope-of-Ibrox, Brian Kennedy, told us “HMRC will not agree to a CVA until the very last minute”.  Why would they?  We believe Green has offered £8.5m but he has spoken about having raised £20m.  If HMRC are negotiating at all (and I have my doubts) they will want as much of that £20m as possible, and I’m sure they will, as Mr Kennedy suggested, wait until the very last minute before agreeing to anything (they won’t, b.t.w.).

None of this matters to Mr Green, he can say HMRC told him they’ll scrub the debt if he paints the Blue Room pink and no one can contradict him.  He is likely to be looking for some comfort from Mr Lawwell but I am sure he will be told that Celtic are unable to support any measure to parachute a Newco into the SPL (after his CVA fails, which it will).  Mr Green, who is also trying to maintain the support of the backers needed to commit cash by Friday, will almost certainly emerge from the meeting uttering words like “constructive”, “helpful” or maybe even “very positive”.

He is wasting his time.  Words like “sobering”, “alarming” and “downright obstinate” might be closer to the truth.

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  1. The Battered Bunnet on

    Celtic meeting Green is simply a PR minefield. He said she said stuff, totally unverifiable, and Celtic, having stood well back as the Blue touchpaper was lit some time ago, should maintain their distance.



    Forget Celtic though. The real problem for Scottish Football is the attempt by Green and D&P to circumvent the Rules of the Game with regards to future penalties and sanctions for old offences.



    It is a given that Green is attempting to obtain assurance from the SFA, and to a lesser extent, the SPL, on an upper limit to any sanctions, particularly as regards the whole “Ineligible Player Registrations to support Tax Evasion to win Trophies” thing.



    This is what ‘due diligence’ is all about: making sure you have visibility of and mitigations for any unpleasantness in the closet.



    Rangers in whatever form, without protection from future sanctions, are not an investable proposition. Green is intending investing £20M of other folks money into this project, and there is a clear threat that ‘Rangers’ will be expelled from the Game for their decade of cheating. If the rules are applied as they are written, Rangers will be expelled from the SPL and the SFA. Bye bye. No football, no business.



    Would you let your Investment Manager do that with your cash?



    And if he did, you’d sue his ass, right?

  2. Kilbowie Kelt on

    Algarvian on 28 May, 2012 at 13:52 said……………..



    What was very noble ?



    Betfair…. Affirmative.

  3. James F



    could it be the MSM twisting greens words???



    it could be a conference call being portrayed as a meeting, no?



    it could go something like this…



    Charles Green (for it is he):- “hi Peter its me, Charles. No not Charles N’zogbia… Why you trying ti sign him? No, Charles Green of Rangers. No, not the Power Rangers. C,mon stop taking the piss. Can we have a meeting? What about? Well, about Rangers rightful place in the SPL! What are you laughing about? (5mins of uncontrollable laughter later) what do you mean ‘feck off, we still owe you £300 grand for tickets and £100 grand for damaged toilet facilities?

  4. Monaghan1900 on

    STV website saying proposed CVA either today or (maybe) tomorrow:



    “The offer is going to be funded by the consortium led by ex-Sheffield United chairman Charles Green which is putting forward £8.5m to cover administrators’ fees and secured creditors, before the remainder is used for a CVA.”



    How much is the “remainder” likely to be exactly?

  5. Ok, everyone stop posting now.



    Paul67, have a month off.



    James Forrest has decided that Peter Lawwell has agreed to meet with Mr Green. Not only that, but he insists on spilling the beans about exactly what will be discussed at said meeting.



    James, don’t bother saying you HAVEN’T said PL has agreed to a meeting. I know you haven’t lierally said that, but several posts in quick succession criticising PL for what he may or may not do, may or may not say?



    All on the back of what this Mr Green supposedly told someone at the Daily Record?



    Do you also believe a European Prince tried to buy Rangers?



    Give it a rest eh?

  6. James Forrest is Neil Lennon! We are ALL Neil Lennon! on

    Tom McLaughlin:



    You know what? You’re right. I forgot this has ceased to be a forum for opinions. I forgot there was a moratorium against CERTAIN opinions.



    I’m done with this. To Hell with it.





    No,it would be right for PL to arrange a meeting with the people who run the company which owes us money,if he so wished.



    Not the other way round.

  8. Yowser, no change on CQN then. Still a large number of illiterate morons, shamelessly illiterate at that, happy to jump up and down at their own mis-apprehensions.



    My own post has nothing to do with the Thai Tims. Try reading it again, or asking an adult to read it for you.



    I can’t really help with this. However, to the one individual who managed to get beyond their own stupidity and tackle the point I made, I’d say – stop buying Nike. It’s a categorical imperative, much like the sectarian issue – where so many Celtic fans, especially online, fail to grasp their own complicity – and so to say to a Celtic fan take the matter up with Nike is absolving ourselves of blame, and any moral responsibility.


    However, at least it addresses the point. To those of you who fail to address, or understand, the point I made, or the joke (which I haven’t heard, but understand the thrust of), then you need to be told you are part of the problem.



    I do my best, and I’m not ignorant of the sins of large corporations, like Nike or Nestle, but I’m a fan of Kit-Kats and from the mid-range up the Total 90 is a fine pair of boots… So we all play a part, and we should all have it on our conscience.



    Perhaps the joke was a deliberate effort to upset some Celtic fans (even though it’s so hard to upset some of us, still they try…), and if the chap is withdrawing his comments then I can only assume that reflects that, or a deeper misunderstanding of what the Thai Tims were about…. however, the point is valid I wouldn’t back down…

  9. Kilbowie Kelt on 28 May, 2012 at 14:00 said:


    Algarvian on 28 May, 2012 at 13:52 said……………..



    What was very noble ?



    Betfair…. Affirmative.



    Your post was very noble KK.


    However, I remember you defending, saying he had just too much to drink, a poster on Betfair, a known bigot, after he had come out with some of the most disgusting anti Celtic, Anti Catholic diatribe imagineable.

  10. The main issue with meeting Green would be for Celtic to be dragged into a PR war and blamed for the ills of Hun FC.



    Simple way to solve that….



    At the very start Peter should click a recorder on



    “I take it you will have no problems with me recording this meeting Mr Green…”

  11. saltires en sevilla on

    Tam Cowan is an erse



    He was a speaker at a Uni bus anniversary a good few year back when the gist of his over long joke was a monk having a Barclays …Complete with all the actions



    The mood was whit? Guys like Sean Fallon were at the top table with Jim Craig etc etc



    However there was mixed views later as some of my best mates thought he was hilarious … The vast majority thought he was a complete prat!







  12. saltires en sevilla on

    That Tam Cowan is an erse



    He was a speaker at a Uni bus anniversary a good few year back when the gist of his over long joke was a monk having a Barclays …Complete with all the actions



    The mood was whit? Guys like Sean Fallon were at the top table with Jim Craig etc etc



    However there was mixed views later as some of my best mates thought he was hilarious … The vast majority thought he was a complete prat!







  13. Why would PL meet with the (allegedly) Insidious Green. Has Green arranged meetings with all the other SPL chairmen or CEOs? I just can’t countenance our having anything to do with an attempt to resurrect the Hun in any guise. A meeting with Green gives some credence to the notion of a Newclub in the SPL being acceptable to CFC.

  14. Son of Gabriel on

    Surely if Charles comes out and tries to spout nuisance all our club has to do is issue a statement about how his statements were false?



    So the usuals in the daily rankers and the scottish hun will jump at the chance to print charles words, we wont care as long as our club denies it and continues to stay quiet.








    Yes,I get that.



    I understand that you dearly desire to go and watch THE HOOPS again,same as you always did,and when you can’t go for whatever reason,it’s like a boot in the bollocks.



    Been there,have been for the majority of the last 20 years,and it’s not pleasant,but then neither is the 12-hour bus or train trip from Swindon,sadly.



    I just seriously,honestly,cannae understand why a man like yourself who would not believe a word written in a Scottish paper,or uttered by a Scottish hack,believes that Peter Lawwell has agreed to meet the latest prospective owner of Rangers.



    Just because it wis in the papers.



    Honestly,James. I do not get that.



    Btw,I hope I’m right and you’re wrong because the consequences of you being right are too much to deal with…

  16. James Forrest



    I would buy one tomorrow if I knew that Rangers were not going to be in the league.



    I think that is what we all want to happen but what if (and I know it’s a big if) Rangers’ creditors agree to a CVA and the company exits from administration. They will have as much right to retain their share in the SPL as Motherwell before them who also exited administration via a CVA.



    If this happened and all was above board, would you still boycott Celtic?




  17. Henriks Sombrero on

    So, the CVA which on Thursday was planed for ‘Friday or Monday’, has now been committed to by ‘Today or tomorrow’.



    These jokers are priceless.

  18. Son of Gabriel on

    Bonty Bhoy: Was that not a bit contradictory then??


    Slandering Nike but agreeing their products are top of the range and admitting to owning them.



    Were you also against the Carling sponsorship?



    Do you drink Evian water?




    I do get your point there should be more awareness of these things, but Nike will merely argue that tehse children are still better off with a p**s poor job with Nike than no-job and going hungry or maybe even starving without them.



    In time industrial standards will reach these places, no matter what. The current state of affairs is shocking but can only be considered a pre-cursor to a stronger economy in the country in the future.



    An interesting jump to this from Cowans comment though.



    Also, you might get further if you explained your comment rather than slandering those who expressed a differing opinion

  19. lennon's passion on

    Peter is taking the Green Brigade to meet Charles Green. They are all going to sing. Cmon you bhoys in Green and Glasgows Green and White. By the time Charles Green knows what’s happening the Huns will be dead.


    Charlie as we will be calling him by this time will give us the Billion pounds he has raised for a seat in with the Green Brigade.


    We will buy 2 powerful CH and a CF with the money and lots of jelly and ice-cream.

  20. James Forrest is Neil Lennon! We are ALL Neil Lennon! on




    The thing is mate, I don’t believe they would have that right.



    Not with dual contracts, going outside football to the courts and other offences, for which any other team would be relegated as a matter of course.



    This is no longer about whether or not they get a CVA. It is about whether we allow these people to do whatever they want, consequences free. It is about whether the game in this country is straight or bent.



    Rangers do not qualify to hold a license to play. NewCo, OldCo, it does not matter which. Deadlines have passed. Crimes against sport have been committed. If the proper framework of rules were being respected they would not be permitted to be in the league. No other club would get away with it.




    You never cease to amaze me.



    You come on here,tell us all how you are likely to be better paid,better educated,better bred and better,just better,than the rest of us.



    Then when we take your post to bits,we’re all morons!



    That’s why you and I fell out all those many moons ago-anyone who disagreed was an illiterate moron. I may be many things,but that is not one of them.



    Btw,before you burrow back into your shell-hole,why do you and STEPHENPOLLOCK post so rarely,yet mostly at the same time?



    And usually backing each other up?



    And is that the same STEPHENPOLLOCK who posted a hagiographic article about rangers from Dubai?



    Just askin’,like.

  22. Celtic_First on

    As things stand, Rangers are entitled to be in the league.



    If they are liquidated, it’s another matter. If they are found guilty of fraudulent registrations of their players, different again.



    As things stand, it’s also possible that they can find a way to pay their bills. It’s also possible for them to get enough of their creditors to agree to a CVA. Both of these seem unlikely in the extreme, but they are possibilities.



    Therefore, how could Celtic start giving reassurances to worried Celtic fans that there will be no Rangers in the SPL next season? The club could only list a series of possible scenarios and say what it would do in each case, making the whole situation even more confusing for a lot of football fans.



    For example, a Mr C. Young earns his living from writing and talking about Scottish football. That’s all he does and it’s all he’s ever done. He’s been doing this job for several decades. Mark Daly still had to explain the basics of this cafuffle to the guy on Saturday because he fails to comprehend them.



    Clarity will come.

  23. Very basic CVA production for idiots.



    I am going to put £Xm into the CVA pot.



    Mr Duff & Phelps need £Xm to pay their fee’s.



    This means we are going to give all you creditors £Xm to split between you.



    The value of X is the problem Mr Green is having. A bit hard to convince people of a ROI in Scottish football.

  24. Celtic_First on

    Nike owns and runs the same number of sports apparel factories as Craig Whyte.

  25. James Forrest said:


    Tom McLaughlin:


    You know what? You’re right. I forgot this has ceased to be a forum for opinions. I forgot there was a moratorium against CERTAIN opinions.



    James –



    Why do you always react every time someone challenges your opinion by accusing him of telling you you are not entitled to an opinion?



    A cheap shot and a total cop-out.



    If the media report anything that can be used as a stick with which to beat the Celtic Board and Peter Lawwell, you bring your own, even bigger stick to join in the fun. You also assume Celtic’s silence on any matter as proof positive of your anti-Celtic stance.



    I’m not saying you have no right to an opinion. You are just being childish with that petulant nonsense. I challenged your stance and the arrogance with which it was delivered. I did not say you were not entitled to a stance.

  26. Son of Gabriel on

    James Forest: I’m in the same position, the club sold my seat last year before I renewed but this year I have more fluid finance and more spare time.



    But Im wary of buying tickets to watch a corrupt league.



    Bobby Murdoch:


    Agree, we shouldnt jump at the shadows and rely on the facts.



    All on the site:


    No matter what way this goes, we may be against the league and the Newco, but we will still all be celtic fans. That is a fact.


    If this has to reduce me to going to only cup games and (hopefully) Europe then so be it.


    The state of affairs does sadden me though as to me it has always been



    “theres going to be a show and the glasgow celtic will be there”



    Oglash: Thats the crux of the debate. Nike will get us the best kiit and highest fees, as well as best publicity, but does that make them the right company to project our club if they are seen to be using and indeed abusing children in underprivilidged companies.



    The comment on the Thai Tims was just a bit un-tactful. As I’m sure all agree they are nothing short of a wonderful organisation who do embody all that is good about our club.




  27. South Of Tunis on

    Nike ?



    Nike paid Tiger Woods 28 million $ in exchange for some advertising /promotion work..



    Meanwhile children in countries like Vietnam , Thailand and Indonesia get paid @ 10 $ for a 70 hr week in a sweat shop hell hole doing outsourced manufacturing of ” Sportswear ” for Nike..



    Nike are making billions .

  28. James Forrest is Neil Lennon! We are ALL Neil Lennon! on

    Tom McLaughlin:



    Be honest. What will your opinion be if it is confirmed Peter Lawwell has had a cosy sit-down with Charles Green?



    Bear in mind I am not the only one who thinks our silence is shocking. How will you feel if you find out a guy who owns not one share in Rangers FC has been given the hearing neither your nor I would be?

  29. The Ghood will prevail on

    i don’t agree that (oldco) rangers deserve to be in the league. Even if a fairy godmother arrived and paid all their debts, the prima facea case for prolonged and widespread cheating via use of EBTs, undeclared to the SFA, while being represented at board level on the SPL and SFA, mean that expulsion from the league is the only proportional course of action.


    We know that won’t happen, therefore the hope is that it happens by other means, i.e. they are liquidated and unable to newco back into spl.


    James Forrest I share one of your concerns which you mentioned earlier and has had a remarkable lack of discussion in MSM or celtic online community. That is Ian Blair’s claim that rfc don’t require a licence to play in the SPL next season. Truly extrordinary from someone who is supposed to be the game’s administrator, saying that the rules are optional anyway. Obviously the transfer embargo would never have been passed by the SFA themselves, thank God for the judicial review.

  30. The funny thing about Tam Cowan is,


    hes not funny.



    But if you replace the u with another vowel you have it.

  31. Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on

    A CVA will never be agreed. That is a given.



    Rangers FC R.I.U



    Everything is being geared towards newclub.



    That is what Green wants to talk about.



    I therefore see ABSOLUTELY no reason for us to talk to them unless we want to maintain The Old Firm brand via voting structures.




  32. Dontbrattbakkinanger on

    The Hillbillies are adopting the same attitude as the wee Japanese guys hiding in the jungle at the end of the war.


    … perhaps HMQ could take time out from her busy Diamond Jubilee schedule to explain to them [and Chic] that resistance is futile.

  33. So Green puts £8.5M in the CVA pot. Take off, say £2.5M for D&P. Take off £2M for Close Brothers.



    That leaves £4M – and we haven’t mentioned a Mr C Whyte yet.



    So either he gets the lot and the creditors are offered a big fat zero, or the admins think they have found a way to cut oor Craig out. Which of course he would in all likelihood challenge in court, holding the whole thing up.



    But, for sake of argument, take Whyte out. That would mean £4M among other creditors owed £140M or so – or around 2.9p in the £.



    Anyone thi nk that would be acceptable to HMRC? Or any of the other creditors for that matter>

  34. Auld Neil Lennon heid on



    On SFA rules I’m happy to offer my services to Mr Green for a fee :)



    If Celtic are talking to Green then why would they do so in the public glare (unless it is a giruy from PL to James Forrest.


    For a guy who plays his cards so close to his chest he can unfankle a fankled strimmer spool behind his own back I find the idea of a public meeting that PL/Celtic have agreed to lacking credibility.


    A secret one, probably but a public one? Third star on the right and straight on to Never never land.

  35. Celtic_First on

    The people at Nike will be very keen to hear about any and all instances of child labour being used in the factories of their outsource manufacturing partners that their own corporate social responsibility auditors might have missed.



    I worked on a story last week about an Italian-owned footwear company setting up shop in North Africa. Production halted after two hours on the first day when 500 people from the local community stormed the gates … demanding a chance to work there. The company promised to take on more local people as its production picks up, but explained the need for proper training on how to handle the machinery safely first.



    It’s a global economy. Companies want you to buy their stuff. They want to make as much money out of the deal as they can. That means keeping production costs as low as they can. That means lots of manufacturing operations follow the cheapest sources of labour available, from Taiwan, to China, to Vietnam, to Cambodia, to Tunisia.



    As the example above shows, many people in the low-labour-cost countries are delighted to have a job that allows them to feed and educate their children to a much higher standard than ever before. Trade not aid. Lots of women getting jobs for the first time. Employ a man and you feed a man. Employ a woman and you feed a family. Giving women jobs as a way of tackling poverty in the developing world is an important element of the Millennium Development Goals.

  36. The media maniplulation of this whole debacle is now into over drive, the spread of misinformation is not a new tactic, its old but when applied correctly it works, and works well if allowed to, its a bit like rangers fc (ia) you need someone to buy into it, basically its intended to confuse and cause disharmony where there ordinarily there should be none, to deflect from the real issues,


    dont allow this to happen,


    eye on the ball


    The end is nigh.

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