I spoke to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, a man who wears his Republican heritage on his sleeve, about the hostile reaction to his comments on modernising the Celtic songbook a few months back. Phil found himself to be an easy target for conspiracy theorists who turned on him for issuing a request to an end of political chanting. I’m sure Neil Lennon will not find anything like the same reaction to his comments in the Sun today, but it remains to be seen if anyone listens.
Neil said, “It’s important that we put a general message out that these chants have no place around our club. To be honest, we are better than that as a club and we always have been, we just don’t need it.
“We are and always have been a club open to all and we do not have issues around sectarianism. We have our own values and traditions but they do not include these chants. We don’t want them at matches and they must stop.”
This is not the first time Neil has given the same message this year. After his earlier comments I actually heard, “Who is Neil Lennon to tell me what I can and can’t sing? I’ve been going to Celtic Park a lot longer than he has.”
We are in a classic social paradox. The reputational damage of political singing is not felt by those who sing, and the risk of personal consequences arising for any individual singer is probably around 1%. And let’s be honest here, for all the supportive flags, banners and “I’m Neil Lennon” proclamations, is Neil respected enough to be listened to, or has he become a modern Che Guevara-poster boy?
Whatever you think of Neil, or his rights to say what you can or cannot sing, he has the best interests of our club in mind whenever he speaks on this subject.
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jockcfc says:
17 November, 2011 at 18:06
Why does the roll of honour have to go? Why not the fields on athenry?
Over 30,000 people voted for young Robert Sands, an estimated 100,000 attended his funeral democratic governments held a minutes silence to mark his death, streets across the world are named after him, and should anyone forget an elected MP.
“England might force me to associate with the dregs raked from the gutters, might shave my head like theirs and stamp the government broad arrow all over me; humiliation might be heaped on to me with an unsparing hand, and punishments -diabollically brutal – measured out for years, but never for one moment did i forget i was and Irish political prisoner”
Thomas J Clarke
Could be I’m thick but just what numbers swell the Green Brigade exactly?? 5% of the crowd say, well what exactly are the 85% doing. They should be making as much noise at least as the GB and when/if, the GB sing “naughty” songs then can they not drown them out.
As I say I could be thick
I was in ASDA today and saw a loaf with my name on it. I looked again and it said ” Thick Cut”
KINGLuBO
15%
KINGLuBO
Ray Singh-Carr
Thats all i wanted to know, thanks
ernie lynch says:
17 November, 2011 at 18:09
The police and the snp have both said they are not providing a list but the police have provided the huns with one, we need to force them to do the same, then we can destroy their arguments as Michael Kelly has done already.They cannot make a law that is a catch all, as per who may be offended and if they do they’re gonna make a major international fool of themselves imo.
Serge (10) Tommy Burns says:
17 November, 2011 at 18:08
Do the many Irish fans who travel to Old Trafford or Anfield sing about the RA? Serious question to anyone who knows.
No they do not but I do not see the relevance.
Why Irish fans?
RS-C @ 18.12
We are not the sporting wing of Irish Republican politics.
We are a football club from the West of Scotland with an Irish heritage.
We are an inclusive organisation trying to build bridges with the world.
We are the 7th best supported team in Ireland and we need to do better.
Trying to be more Irish than the Irish will not do this, winning the league will.
When we meet up at CP our focus should be on the team on the park not your politics.
Let’s sing in Latin!
Sometimes ye just have to laugh…..
monteblanco-agreed hh.
‘Those songs’ , ‘these songs’ , ‘them songs’ , ‘IRA songs’ ,
‘Uck, you know what songs and why’
Not exactly a justifiable basis to a point, is it?
FFS, Can someone please tell me what songs? specifics people !
Neil Lennon. Up until the sun (FFS) printed your appeal to stop singing IRA songs I was right behind you and still am football wise. Haven’t Celtic got a PR department or better still a chairman who can make such requests. They are doing you up like the proverbial kipper and I’m worried you’ll always be remembered for this and not all the other great things you have said and done for us. Let’s get the team winning and leave all the other none sense to those who have an agenda against us. (where do I start with that one.) Like a lot of people on here I sat with my family through the league cup final and all it entailed. Where did all THAT go? The snp were made to look like fools over rankers bigotry that day and now it’s payback time for us. Unbelievable. Depending on how this is handled will decide whether I renew next year. I have major worries that this will end up in a big mess and we as supporters will get the blame. HH.
googybhoy
dont make my question into something its not ok. i am not accusing anyone of anything i wanted to know for my own benefit.
Big Packie’s Accent says:
17 November, 2011 at 18:26
‘Those songs’ , ‘these songs’ , ‘them songs’ , ‘IRA songs’ ,
You know the songs. If not you obviously do not go to CP.
Only joking but that is the level of debate.
My dear,dear,dear,friend.. GorbalsTim
Pal. Ah am no Fightin You oan this..
Fur.. we Baith are in the Same Trench.
Whit Ah am saying..
is that the G.B. seem tae Really Dae Hiv a very Visiible Group of
Followers… Whithin their Ranks… who kin be Identified .. by their Banners etc.. as Being ..
Pro.. the I.R.A. so therefore, it is a Natural Reaction tae Bring those Folk tae
the Attention of the G.B. Steering Committee..in this situation.
We hiv tae start somewhere..
Ah am Sure the there are Ither Folks scattered thruoot the Celtic supporting Crowd.. who are
Died in the wool. Pro I.R.A… Fellahs..and sing those proscribed Songs,as well.
But, Like Ah said..
The Group, of Staunch I.R.A. supporters…who are whitin the Ranks of the G.B. are a Sticking oot Target..
By the way.. Ah hivnae read Anything but, Enthusiastic APPROVAL of the work that the G.B. is daeing fur the Celtic Cause.. coming fae either the Board or Mr. Lennon or even the Unfairly Maligned.. Mr. McBride..
Even, fae Me.. Kojo..
Who Thinks that the Green Brigade are Daeing A wnderful Joab of Geeing up the Enthusiasm of the Support during oor Games..’
You may say that ,in General
Kojo is A Big Green Brigade Supporter..
Anyway…
Nice Chatting Pally.
Kojo
yer pal. .who likes ye aloater
gallagher at 18.20
Exactly the point I have been trying to make.
They MUST provide a definitive list of everything which they consider someone can be arrested for.It would then be up to Celtic FC to come out and support or disagree with the definitive list (hard to see anything other than support tbh)
Then supporters know what the score is and can choose their course of action in full knowledge of the consequences.
At the moment we are faced with the equivalent of a new stretch of road where the authorities haven’t made clear the speed limit,but where speed cops are arresting people for speeding anyway,while refusing to say what the limit is.All this while other road users are flying past going much faster but unpunished.
A good few years ago many of us went to the lovely city of Paris to watch our club play PSG
One of my abiding memories of that trip was the chaos around the Parc des Princes, when many Celtic fans were shipped to the game in police vehicles..For our own protection.
Not because the PSG fans were attacking us. Because the 2 main factions of PSG fans were fighting amongst themselves and there was a risk we would be caught in the middle of it.
Both ends of the stadium had very different types of fans..there were a bunch who were full of noise and team colours behind one goal. The other crowd had no colours and the menacing look of right-wing thugs. With Celtic support occupying 2 ‘tribunes’ or sections in the middle.
(I remember the PSG guys were also knocking shades out of one another in the return match at Celtic Park)
My understanding of the reasons for divisions at PSG is not complete. One theory goes around the origins of the formation of PSG involving the old Racing Club of Paris and another group who occupy the Auetil(sp?) area near the P D Prince. There is a view that one section are Right Wing Neo Nazi and the other are Left Wing/Socialists.
Dunno (maybe someone has the gen?). though it was a horrible rancid atmosphere and no way to support a fitba team.
When the recent return of the Ra songs could be heard (admittedly mainly picked up by tv microphones and mostly at away games) I could not believe some fans would do that after so many years of positive restraint (despite heavy provocation from the orcs who get away with singing their entire songbook ..such as it is) I felt bloody annoyed at them.
Then last year we had the GB and the infamous ‘not in our name’ poppy banner and the division that caused. Not in my name? Really? ..no-one asked me my opinion but every non-Celtic fan I have met since believes Celtic fans are anti-poppy and all that entails. I now find myself having to ‘test the water’ before I openly declare i am a Celt. Seriously!! That pisses me off!!
Which is a pity because the energy and positivity the GB can create is vital. These guys saved us from defeat at Rugby Park recently and drove the team to victory against Rennes. When they get the volume going and the Celtic songs to the fore.
Anyway, recently, and for only a few moments, I found myself thinking ‘oh crap ..I’ve seen where all this could lead’ if we are not careful and don’t get sorted out pronto.
I am not suggesting we will have raging left and right wing elements having pitched battles at CP. However, there is an atmosphere of conflict now and that can lead to serious trouble amongst our own fans…..it will not take much for someone to land a right-hander.
How many parents will want to take kids to games then? How may decent fans will want to go at all?
We must strive to get 100% together and firmly behind our team and our under-fire manager. ASAP!
HH
M
MadMitch says:
17 November, 2011 at 18:23
RS-C @ 18.12
We are not the sporting wing of Irish Republican politics.
We are a football club from the West of Scotland with an Irish heritage.
We are an inclusive organisation trying to build bridges with the world.
——————————————————————————————————————————————-
Neither should it be focused on your opinion, we are i hope a very broad church open to all not just those who espouse Irish Nationalism or agree with the oh so politically correct Scottish establishment view of how Celtic fans should behave
Gebhoy @ 18.17
The GB are Clearasil Republicans who need to grow up.
What good does the singing of obscure Irish Republican ballads do in helping to lift the team on the park?
Will any new player need to have a post grad in Irish history so that they can understand the message contained within the song or is it just a case that you and those that think like you sing these songs for your own gratification with no thought given to the team?
googybhoy
i said that because its well known that manchester united and liverpool have a big following from ireland. not so sure about in scotland. thats my only reason for saying irish. not to start s***
Big Packie’s Accent says:
17 November, 2011 at 18:26
I have became very cynical lately but I believe if we are specific and do cut those out, the list will change. It seems to be those three letters(or two in the case of CS) that most believe have to go. Well that’s where we’re starting I think?
Sir Robert Kelly. In 1952 the powers that be ordered the Irish Tri -colour be removed from the Park on the basis it was a sectarian image. He didn’t do it. But how much has this country moved on? Not an inch. HH.
Serge (10) Tommy Burns says:
17 November, 2011 at 18:28
Ok apologies…. there are plenty of tricolours at OT every week.
There is also plenty of support for Irish in Manchester as there is a big second and third generation of Irish catholics.
I very much doubt anyone would be accepted for chanting IRA songs there. They are an English team.
Big Packie’s Accent
That question has been posed since The Sun first printed the leak.
It hasn’t changed the fact that there are no “songs” sung which are illicit.
That is a song in it’s entirety, and chants or add ons are a better description, here’s the definitive list from a season ticket holder that hasn’t missed a game since long before Fergus McCann’s Mission Statement.
1.Ooh aah Samaras, all versions and altered lyrics
2.Celtic Symphony (with specific reference to Ooh Aah etc)
Some list – eh, shouldn’t be difficult, what a fuss about nothing.
googybhoy
no need for apologies, thanks for the reply & info on that.
St. Patrick’s Day Parade. The only country in the world not to have St Pat’s parade is Scotland. Plenty of other marched take place right enough. HH.
Lest we forget.
This from a book and video sold and promoted at CP. Celtic PLC play the Irish card when it suits.
Celtic Football Club has a massive support in Ireland north and south, with many fans regularly making the trek to watch their team in Glasgow, but what is the team’s connection to the island?
Brian McGuirk, a life-long Celtic supporter with a deep passion for Irish history and Celtic Football Club, Celtic FC – The Ireland Connection explores the deep-rooted links between Celtic Football Club, Ireland and the 90 million supporters of Irish descent throughout the world.
“Celtic is a club that we Irish and our Diaspora can proudly call our own. Celtic is our legacy, left to us by the courage and vision of Irish men like Brother Walfrid, John Glass and Pat Welsh. Many of the ‘great men’ involved in Celtic’s formation were immigrants into Glasgow from their native Ireland, a country crippled by famine and political unrest.
“We didn’t just happen to support Celtic; Celtic is a part of us. Celtic for us is so much more than a football club. Celtic is an institution, an identity and a celebration of being Irish or being of Ireland. Celtic is a legacy passed from generation to generation. Celtic is a way of life.”
Marches!
MadMitch says:
17 November, 2011 at 18:30
How did you form that opinion of the GB members? Do you think that helps? What about the people that go to games and offer no vocal support? Is that better or worse than singing anything, how would that lift the players?
http://www.thecsa.co.uk/showthread.php?t=497
Absolutely disgraceful if true, and anyone who truly believes that removing three letters from
the odd song, will be the end of it, is deluding themselves. And please I’m not suggesting we should/shouldn’t,
only stating the obvious.
And what a convenient time to release the new figures too.
The SNP at its most SINISTER.
harryhoodsdugbitmesays:
17 November, 2011 at 18:38
St. Patrick’s Day Parade. The only country in the world not to have St Pat’s parade is Scotland. Plenty of other marched take place right enough. HH.
That is a question I would like to ask Salmond.
In fact I think I will.
Kojo at 18:04
“……If the G.B.do luv Celtic ,after Awe.. they must see that Something must b e done
to rein in their Recalcitrant Members.. who insist in Singing these Upsetting
Dittys.. tae the Establishment…….”
************************
Kojo I know you don’t get to CP often if at all, so I can understand you’re ignorance in this and God knows there are many CQN’ers guilty of the same. The section where the GB stand is known as 111, not all who stand in 111 are GB members, so who amongst the GB will go round and tell non GB members to stop singing the add ons to the two (or so) songs which may be sung. I think the GB have no particular jurisdiction legally to ask other Celtic supporters not to sing something, whether legal or not.
Now take that a wee bit further, what about someone in section 110, 112 or 113, it’ll sound to those outside these areas like an add on from the GB as they will be singing the loudest, but those who are listening and are close to the ra singer(s) will put two and twenty two together and guess who gets the blame.
Kojo I’m not having a dig, just thought you’d appreciate an alternative slant.
I’m happy to go to the game and get hoarse singing Celtic and traditional Irish songs but I ain’t going to go policing others, I’ll be to busy cheering on my team.
Jeezo I thought I had nowt else to say about this and determined to stay off the topic….. sucked in again :¬)
Any team news PLEASE!
V
Madmitch@1830,
What a load of pish, you dont know me or my views, do you actually listen to what the Green Brigade sing, do you actually attend?
My views are mine, and regardless what they are i will still defend the right of the GB to sing songs that in my view are not “illicit” just because some jumped up plod says so!
So do we roll over and just accept whats happening, you sir need to get a grip on what it really is like to follow Celtic away from home, police stop and searches, opposing fans singing stuff that is 100% worse than anything the GB sing, attacks by police and stewards, even our manager gets attacked!
Let the people sing!
gebhoy
Just who is it on the board that makes up Club policy? And ain’t we got a jambo for a PR manager? And we wonder why we’re getting stuffed over everything. HH.
The GB are an extreme left wing anarchist grouping, who have latched on to Celtic, using the club as a platform, as they don’t have another forum.
DISCUSS.
Wee lex takes his scottish version to NYC. Good enough for him!!!!!HH.
thomthetim,
In a word…..Shoite!
gebhoy
The world’s attitude to “terrorists” changed fundamentally following 9/11. And no organisation reacted quicker globally than the Provisional IRA. Hence the move towards peace settlements here and with ETA and others.
Many Celtic fans sing songs now defined as “offensive” and see that as their right. Partly due to tabloid trivialisation, the general public can’t see the distinction between “illegal”, “sectarian” and “offensive”.
Many dark forces are coming to the fore to ensure that we are seen as “offensive” as the proportion of the rangers support who promote bigotry and sectarianism.
Is there a concerted strategy by the police to ensure “balance”? Yes, absolutely!
Is there a consiracy led by Govt / SNP? I don’t think so – more a case of the standard inability of ouri leaders to understand what’s going on around them (consider MacAskill’s ridiclous comments after that game!).
Are the songs many sing “sectarian”? No!
Are they legal? Yes, under current law.
Should they be sung? Absolutely not!! They are seen by the majority as despicable and disrepectful of the innocent people who lost their lives.
So what needs to be done? Keep singing things like Athenry and the Republic’s national song but stop singing anything with references to the IRA. There are so many other songs which will celebrate our devotion to Celtic and Ireland and will , at least, annoy those we oppose. That’s all. That leaves them with the imperative to stop singing vulgar, disgusting, racist and sectarian bile. Smal price. Yes, we could challenge the legality of whether we should be allowed to sing some stuff but, simply by not singing a few songs, we can leave the other mob completely isolated.