I spoke to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, a man who wears his Republican heritage on his sleeve, about the hostile reaction to his comments on modernising the Celtic songbook a few months back. Phil found himself to be an easy target for conspiracy theorists who turned on him for issuing a request to an end of political chanting. I’m sure Neil Lennon will not find anything like the same reaction to his comments in the Sun today, but it remains to be seen if anyone listens.
Neil said, “It’s important that we put a general message out that these chants have no place around our club. To be honest, we are better than that as a club and we always have been, we just don’t need it.
“We are and always have been a club open to all and we do not have issues around sectarianism. We have our own values and traditions but they do not include these chants. We don’t want them at matches and they must stop.”
This is not the first time Neil has given the same message this year. After his earlier comments I actually heard, “Who is Neil Lennon to tell me what I can and can’t sing? I’ve been going to Celtic Park a lot longer than he has.”
We are in a classic social paradox. The reputational damage of political singing is not felt by those who sing, and the risk of personal consequences arising for any individual singer is probably around 1%. And let’s be honest here, for all the supportive flags, banners and “I’m Neil Lennon” proclamations, is Neil respected enough to be listened to, or has he become a modern Che Guevara-poster boy?
Whatever you think of Neil, or his rights to say what you can or cannot sing, he has the best interests of our club in mind whenever he speaks on this subject.
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Sabre67 @ 00.04
Nail hit firmly on the head.
The 2011 LCF needs to be highlighted for what it contained.
120 minutes of full on TFOD BigotFest.
Consequently by their own words will they fall.
Although given recent events I am sure the tape of the game has been scrubbed.
FairPlay to GS for highlighting the song book in his original Times piece.
Sorry just thought of a chant v the Huns
” you only sing when your racist.”
Lest we forget!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PLn6uFbfEw&feature=related
Houl yer weesht
Another thing that might stick in your throat is that there is no monument outside Celtic Park that celebrates the men of 16 but there is one that celebrates the life of a Scottish Protestant miner
Explain
Long time since I posted. Time to take stock, they (establishment) are at it big time in trying to term us as the enemy, sectarian, illicit, offensive.
See they even had Pat Crerand at it the other day, re Catholic schools, pity Pat did not grow a pair and explain that there is no problem in England with Catholic schools, or Canada, Australia, need I go on.
Had a season ticket since the wee Fergus days, gave it to my wee nephew over the last couple of years, he loves the Green Brigade.
I went to my first game this season, it was the Hibs game at home. It is a pity that we are not talking about the fitba, because in all my years going to see Celtic that ranks as one of the worst games of football I have ever seen. I was sitting nearer to the Green Brigade than I would have normally as my seat is in 404, I could see their faces. At first I thought this is great, the fitba was dross but at least there is a bit of light hearted entertainment. I am not sure if it was frustration on the Green Brigade’s part that they chose to sing what they did or if that is what they sing all the time. I thought to myself, we are playing Hibs!! I have witnessed many a song at Celtic Park that has been in defiance against what is being sung against us. I am not getting in to debate about what is right and what is wrong, although I will tell you all that if this law goes through, it will be a young Celtic fan that is the first to taste the 5 years. So come on you young rebels and list while I sing.
See the song below, this is what Coldplay sang tonight to benefit Children In Need. The SFA, police and SNP don’t like Coldplay, wonder why?
I turn the music up,
Got my records on
I shut the world outside until the lights come on
Maybe the streets alight,
Maybe the trees are gone
I feel my heart start beating to my favorite song
And all the kids they dance
All the kids all night
Until Monday morning feels another life
I turn the music up
I’m on a roll this time
And heaven is in sight
I turn the music up,
I got my records on
From underneath the rubble sing a rebel song
Don’t want to see another generation drop
I’d rather be a comma, than a full stop
Maybe I’m in the black
Maybe I’m on my knees
Maybe I’m in the gap between the two trapezes
But my heart is beating and my pulses start
Cathedrals in my heart
As we saw, oh this light
I swear you emerge blinking into
To tell me it’s alright
As we soar walls
Every siren is a symphony
And every tears a waterfall
Is a waterfall
Oh
Is a waterfall
Ooh-oh-oh
Is a waterfall
Every teardrop
Is a waterfall
Ooh-oh-oh
So you can hurt, hurt me bad
But still I’ll raise the flag
It was a wa-wa-wa-wa-waterfall
A wa-wa-wa-wa-waterfall
Every tear
Every tear
Every teardrop is a waterfall(5x)
Stop the RA stuff now, because the RA would not be proud of you!!
yogijunior3 says:
18 November, 2011 at 00:14
Your post reminded me of the choice that life continually presents each of us and that is to do the loving thing.
Such a choice is never easy, in fact the harder the decision is to make, the more it reflects our degree of understanding of what love is and what it requires of us to make the right choice.
At the end of the day it is a choice of the kind of person the decision maker wishes to be.
Bloke109 is Neil Lennon…
how dare you associate Catholicism with sectarianism
I don’t think I have? Or if I have, please quote me. Because the two are quite unrelated, and no association was intended.
I post quickly (or try to)… I don’t always have time to proof read or make sure my posts make sense (I’m sure you’re agreeing now!). I’m human and may have written something in haste that was not as Satan intended (poor taste, I know).
Of course, most organised religions are expressly sectarian (they all believe they are the one true religion, yes?) – but we’ll leave that, as it’s the line I use to annoy my now aged Mother. And I mean it as a joke. :-)
I’ve said on many occasions, I don’t mean to cause offence – the strength of this site is that we’re all in it for the same thing, and because we all care about Celtic. I hope you accept that we may have different opinions, but that we wish to travel in the same direction – the good of Celtic. Not the good of Neil Lennon, or Dermot Desmond, but the good of the club we all hold dear. We’re on the same side, with different opinions.
/p
Bloke109
Just catching up on most of the afternoon and evening posts.
Yours at 23:31 is the post of the week my friend, outstanding.
Sabre67
Campbell Corrigan certainly seems to have scored a massive own goal with his comments on last years league cup final. He is a senior police official who wants to talk to the green brigade, he has publicly committed to treat both Celtic and Rangers equally…….
….yet….
he publicly praised the Rangers support for the worst exhibition of sectarian and bigoted behaviour in living memory. None of his officers or match commanders found it necessary to report Rangers to ANYONE that day.
I want the IRA stuff to stop, however if I was in the green brigade I would feel very entitled to ask why the double standards…..because they are double standards….
Campbell Corrigan has it in his own hands to deal with this. He was very ready to jump at every microphone available earlier this week. He came across as a reasonable guy with a valid point. He now needs to seek out those microphones and clarify what he meant when he praised the behaviour of the fans at the League Cup Final…..
It’s not difficult…..To save him the time, i’m sure he is busy, I have composed what he should say…..
” When I praised the fans last year at Hampden , I really should have made it clear that I was referring to the lack of match day violence. For the avoidance of doubt the singing and chanting of the Rangers support that day was totally unacceptable. What was equally unacceptable was the failure of Strathclyde Police to report this to the football authorities. I unequivocally apologise for these failures and assure ALL football supporters Strathclyde Police will not fail in it’s duty again, regardless of the club involved”
Raymac says:
17 November, 2011 at 16:03
Has Ol’ Bhonty flounced? Just logged on to see he agreed with me that the Orcs should pay their taxes. That was all it took, but Bonty leaves it in such a way that you are never sure if he means it.
You see, the biggest lie will always have some truth in it, so that those people reading it say “Now that’s a very good point/argument”. I think he’s a splitter, and a very good one.
Adept with words, so educated, probably grammar school, and deft in argument, so also probably degree level.
Anyone who has read my posts knows I’m as big a Republican as anyone, and I have the history to prove it, but the songs debate should have been put to bed long ago. There’s an old saying in Belfast–”Use yer head, yer feet’s for dancin’”. Change the few words and keep the songs. And by the way–TBOTOB was first sung at Christmas 1971 by the internees in Long Kesh. Paddy Joe McGuigan wrote the song in the camp.
They all sung it, even Desi O’Hagan, head Stickie in the camp, and fervent Marxist. It was given to a band called the Wolfjound who then recorded it. All proceeds went to the Civil Rights Movement becauseRosaleen Twomey, who was in charge of Green Cross at the time, wanted all proceeds. The band could only give their royalties, which was why the CRM got the money. I know. I was there.
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2010 Never Again
Raymac
Indeed!
As a wise man once said – “you can fool some of the people some of the time….but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.” (apologies for the bolding – I just wanted to differentiate between the different points you were making <:-))
P8ddy @ 00.22
I do not know what member of the St Als debating society is using the non de plume tonight but it is certainly not one of their more able individuals
Consequently your ultra libertarian viewpoint that accepts / condones / allows anything that some reptile in the far reaches of the TFOD fan firmament can put on record regarding Scotlands most accomplished football manager is beyond the standards of decency that I would expect to be allowed in a civilised society.
Your basic point regarding free speech looks towards an ideal that no society can support.
Libel, causing offence and even Health and Safety mean that we cannot say what we like at no cost to ourselves.
My Fav!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1maOiysZe-4
Auldheid and Yogi–just in from the pints. Excellent posts.We are Celtic—the rest of Europe should copy us.
Houl yer weesht
Now I assume from your postings you assume yourself to be a good republican along with oglach.
Can you explain to me then why another man, Michael Dickson, who also seen himself as being a good republican,seen it fit to gather season ticket money for Celtic Park from the good tims of Dundalk then fek off with same
mickbhoy1888 says:
18 November, 2011 at 00:26
Houl yer weesht
Another thing that might stick in your throat is that there is no monument outside Celtic Park that celebrates the men of 16 but there is one that celebrates the life of a Scottish Protestant miner
Explain
………..
not long in and I see the LL listeners and quislings are rampant.
That Protestant miner might have been the person who saw through the racist and sectarian hatred that his friends and neighbours laid upon the Irish catholic immigrants, you have to say well done to that great Protestant man.
HH
MadMitch…
You are a complete self indulgent, hypocritical, libertarian erse.
Hypocritical? How so? Please illustrate with quotes?
All this pseudo-intellectual, Voltaire spouting, St Als debating society patter is not big and it is not clever.
It is just cry for help from an attention seeking one club golfer who has no grasp of reality.M
Again, you have strong opinions. Unfortunately not always matched by your grasp of fact. For example, during your “debt nutter” phase by continually referring to previous positions held by Peter Lawwell. Positions that were in fact held by another member of the board – you were just too lazy to go beyond the google search summary and chose to base your argument on Lawwells fictitious career. You’ll forgive me if I’m not overly put off posting by your ad hominem insults. Of course, if you could further your argument/insult-fest with some examples it may be of assistance. Even if only in my quest to be a better person.
How you can condone / accept the BJK campaign is beyond my comprehension.
I would suggest you go back to your Ivory Tower and throw shite at yersel.
I don’t condone it. I find it insulting. Another example of your inability/unwillingness to deal in fact rather than what you *wish* to be fact. Please represent my opinions and base your arguments on them rather than what you wish they were.
BJK. I don’t like it. It’s repulsive. However, people have a right to express themselves. That I don’t like what they express? Tough. I do however have the right to counter that expression. Society isn’t here to insulate me from things I dislike. And certainly, banning people from saying things will not make them harbour that grudge any less. It’ll simply hide it. How do you educate (or break the face) of things you don’t know? Answer me that, wise man. Objectionable chants aren’t the problem, it’s the thought processes behind those. And the only way you can make things better is by education, not by letting these things fester and become underground. Equally, as society as a whole matures, the social norm will not accept this and it’ll be bred out of existence.
People have a right to express themselves. Even if you don’t like the subject matter. The good thing is, you have the right to counterpoint.
/p
Dont think this will be on the song sheet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=8V3AEgStKvE
Mad Mitch
Get rid of that f@@kin moniker
Laff at this one!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8a2D_Yi8JA&feature=related
I made a mistake today at work, I saw a copy of the R*****d in the canteen and had a look at the hotline comments.Apparently a Celtic fan the day before had committed the heinous crime of declaring that he felt more Irish than Scottish.
The outpouring of downright racist comments, i.e “if he likes Ireland so much why doesn’t he emigrate there”, “send him back to Ireland” etc. some of it allegedly from Celtic fans served as a reminder why I haven’t bought this rag since the thugs and thieves headline.
Ceasar 67
After every wing shift when the the screws done their worst .that was the song we belted out afterwards
Oglach UFB
If you take the time to read my post entirely you’ll find that you and I agree entirely.
Imagine Lenny thommo and Stokes getting their pic taken in front of an Irish flag in Ireland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8a2D_Yi8JA&feature=related
Ceaser67 says:
18 November, 2011 at 00:55
“The IRA the spirits soar”, ehm what do you think?
Madmitch keep the moniker.
But lose the abbreviations!!!!
You talk a lot of sense .
macan
God bless you sir!! Did you sing this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_0WXSpmS-w&feature=related
Vhman
don’t want you sleeping in
Could you possibly get your head On the pillow very soon as the blog relies on your morning weather updates from NW engurland before it is able to carry on It’s daily business
mic1888
I don’t think any Irishman should be ashamed of the the IRA
Or any body referring to the IRA in any shape or form
Are you ashamed of the IRA?
Half way through today’s posts. A credit to the eloquence of many on here that it is hard to know what way to come down on this debate. Need exact clarification of individual lyrics that are “illicit”. Then we can deal with how we, together, solve this. Until this is specified, a lot of words will be wasted. As others have said, Celtic symphony is a song I don’t like musically…we sing better songs, new and old. I liked singing it for 6 months in my teens…and I can see why some young lads feel the same now. I got put in the cells once for singing “we love the Irish and we hate the English” at a game…a silly 15 year old. I’ve never had a SECTARIAN bone in my body tho.
Kudos to the folk who got that word removed from the online reports today btw…we still have influence if we stay united to the extent we have been. They want to split us. Don’t let them.
As far as lenny’s interview…I believe he should not be asked to get involved…he shoulda taken a leaf out of MON’s book in this clip posted on here several times in past…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V7Y9cg8e5o&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Stay safe HH
Mad Mitch a H*n moniker if there ever was one – spotted it a while ago but kept stum thinking it may have been a joke name however. his anti celt rants prove otherwise.
Colin Campbell Mitchell (17 November 1925 – 20 July 1996) was a British Army lieutenant-colonel and politician. He became famous in July 1967 when he led the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders in the British reoccupation of the Crater district of Aden. At that time, Aden was a British colony and the Crater district had briefly been taken over by nationalist insurgents. Mitchell became widely known as “Mad Mitch”. His reoccupation of the Crater became known as “the Last Battle of the British Empire”. Although some observers questioned whether the Last Battle was ever worth fighting, the event marked the end of an era in British history and made Mitchell an iconic figure.
Anti rebel – outwith the Paramurder regiment the Argyll and Sutherland are the most hated brits in NI.
Auld Neil Lennon heid says:
17 November, 2011 at 23:50
celtic40me says:
17 November, 2011 at 23:27
THEY are the cause of the current argument imo. They have resented having to drop TBBS and TFS and this is all about getting even.
The measures I proposed do that.
If we were to unilateraly take the approach in my part one before the HOWEVER there would be an outcry of appeasement on our side and any united initiative on our part would falter (trying to get the Celtic support to move in a particular direction is like probing mercury with a fork).
The measure I proposed is not appeasement it is a means of mutual suspension of hostilities by putting them in the same position of sorting out their offensiveness, Something they have avoided so far.
We show them (and the world) how to be gracious and mature and put the spotlight back on them. We need not be governed by their response, we do what is right but if they do not respond in kind they wil have lost all right to look for even more – a fear that is being used to not take the initiative.
If we take NI as the analogy, it was only when the two communities engaged with each other that peace became possible and distasteful as engaging is, I see it as inevitable if this immature nonsense is to stop.
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2010 Never Again
Auldheid
A student of history my friend in Celtic?
I see an analogy between what you are suggesting and the political astuteness of decommissioning.
mic1888
To the heavens mic to the heavens. In A reb mood the night. Will this do?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB9vVC6v674&feature=related
MadMitch…
I do not know what member of the St Als debating society is using the non de plume tonight but it is certainly not one of their more able individuals
I am immune to your provocation. You will not, no matter how infantile your insults become, make me resort to ad hominem attacks back.
I treat you with respect. Kindly reciprocate.
Consequently your ultra libertarian viewpoint that accepts / condones / allows anything that some reptile in the far reaches of the TFOD fan firmament can put on record regarding Scotlands most accomplished football manager is beyond the standards of decency that I would expect to be allowed in a civilised society.
Sadly, as I said before, society isn’t here to insulate you from things you don’t like. That you find it repulsive? No surprise. I find it equally repulsive. But people have a right to express themselves. If those people believe that Jock Stein *was* part of a cover up, should they keep quiet? Personally, I think what happened was a product of the times we lived in then. An accusation like that would have been ruinous for the children involved, and we have no idea what Jock Stein knew beyond the fact that Torbett was untrustworthy. However – as I said, how do you identify these people without the freedom to express themselves? And how do you take control of that subject? That discussion? They are acting within the law, and however tasteless and heinous, they have a right to express themselves.
Your basic point regarding free speech looks towards an ideal that no society can support.
Really? That’s your opinion stated as absolute fact. Stating that the moon is made of green cheese doesn’t make it so. Back it up with fact, and we’ll kick the conversation on. And besides, even if no society accommodates it, should we abandon the quest?
Libel, causing offence and even Health and Safety mean that we cannot say what we like at no cost to ourselves.
I really thought we’d accepted the basic premise that my “freedom of speech” of course includes “within the bounds of the law”. I’ve clarified that point on many, many occasions. Doing so again is tiresome when you know that full well.
You need to start and deal in facts, and accept realities. You can’t insult your way out of an argument. Well, you can, but it’s just silly.
/p
Barcabhoy says:
18 November, 2011 at 00:40
……………
Great post, get yourself on the board, we need some backbone in there.
V
Oggie @ 1.10
I take it you are new around these parts.
Consequently cut out the crap, that bio has been published regularly.
It still has nothing to do with me.
CeasaR 67
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzBQ3gyLHd4
THIS CONFUSES THE F@@K OF EM
macanbheatha says:
18 November, 2011 at 01:08
First and foremost I am a Celtic supporter, of Limerick stock.
Read my post at 21.17 and form your own opinion mate.
In my opinion Lenny didn’t take the soup,I happen to think he did a very brave thing.
Wow, a quick look around the blog tells me that there is an amazing amount… Hunners even of the racist scum……
V