I spoke to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, a man who wears his Republican heritage on his sleeve, about the hostile reaction to his comments on modernising the Celtic songbook a few months back. Phil found himself to be an easy target for conspiracy theorists who turned on him for issuing a request to an end of political chanting. I’m sure Neil Lennon will not find anything like the same reaction to his comments in the Sun today, but it remains to be seen if anyone listens.
Neil said, “It’s important that we put a general message out that these chants have no place around our club. To be honest, we are better than that as a club and we always have been, we just don’t need it.
“We are and always have been a club open to all and we do not have issues around sectarianism. We have our own values and traditions but they do not include these chants. We don’t want them at matches and they must stop.”
This is not the first time Neil has given the same message this year. After his earlier comments I actually heard, “Who is Neil Lennon to tell me what I can and can’t sing? I’ve been going to Celtic Park a lot longer than he has.”
We are in a classic social paradox. The reputational damage of political singing is not felt by those who sing, and the risk of personal consequences arising for any individual singer is probably around 1%. And let’s be honest here, for all the supportive flags, banners and “I’m Neil Lennon” proclamations, is Neil respected enough to be listened to, or has he become a modern Che Guevara-poster boy?
Whatever you think of Neil, or his rights to say what you can or cannot sing, he has the best interests of our club in mind whenever he speaks on this subject.
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Pity we don’t know any Jacobite songs, that would really confuse them, maybe even get the Highlanders onboard.
KTF and stuff the SNP
A Muslim Rangers supporter who chanted sectarian remarks at a game at Ibrox Stadium has been fined £600.
Abdul Rafiq, 41, the only Muslim member of the English Defence League, was arrested at Rangers friendly game with Chelsea on 6 August.
At Glasgow Sheriff Court he pleaded guilty to religiously aggravated breach of the peace by shouting, swearing and uttering sectarian remarks.
Sheriff John McCormick also imposed a five year football banning order.
The court heard that Rafiq, from Kelvinbridge, Glasgow, was heard shouting phrases which hit out at Catholics and the Pope.
Fiscal depute Seana Doherty, prosecuting said: “The accused was standing in the Govan front stand wearing a flag around his shoulders bearing the Red Hand of Ulster logo.
“He was wearing an umbrella stand hat which was red white and blue and also had the Red Hand of Ulster logo on it, and carrying a blue Rangers backpack.
“He was seen by three police officers to stand up from the seat and chant sectarian phrases.”
The court was told Rafiq was warned by the officers to stop but continued and was arrested
So much for zero tolerance, why was he warned and yet the police want to wade into the Green Brigade at every opportunity. To be fair I don’t think this guy is right in the head going by his picture on BBC…
HH
VP
Is City Cash Tailors still there, which reminds me, would a Provy Cheque be considered an add on?
ianinascoli says: 18 November, 2011 at 09:03
yes me too, just hope we are just talking about fitba matters at 14:30 ramorra
;o)
The long break ends and we get back to some football tomorrow. It’s a massive game for us, on and off the park.
We all know that recent trips to Inverness haven’t been good. Like other away games we will face opponents who will run, harry and kick all day We need to be smart and we need to b up for the challenge from the start, The first goal is so important in these games – and we have developed a bad habit of losing it. That’s one we have to change.
Not sure of the injury situation so won’t try to predict a team. But I’m sure the formation will be along recent lines. We are good enough to win this vital game.
As an infrequent poster, usually giving weather forecasts from Inverness ( Its fine this weekend )Our support needs to on their toes tommorow when dealing with Northern Constabulary, the have made frequent arrests in and around Caley stadium for 3 years now regarding away support ( not just us Rankers Fans have been done as well ) Stay safe bhoys !!
ASonOfDan says:
18 November, 2011 at 10:05
“The court was told Rafiq was warned by the officers to stop but continued and was arrested…..”
Wonder if our young 17 year old lad was shown the same “courtesy”? Suspect we all know that was not the case
matty6721 never mind the weather forecast, it’s the shipping forecast that is required , when is high tide !!
New centre half in January?
Celtic consider move for Juhasz
Non Celtic related, but interesting piece on Messi Deco and Ronaldinho
http://tinyurl.com/86dq9w2
Interesting the way the story is reported that the bigot found guilty of sectarian chanting has to be described as a “muslim rangers fan”. Could he not just be called a rangers fan, or is this deliberate to say he is bigotted because he is muslim and not because he supports Rangers?
Mort
A Celtic fan/referee/polis reporting Celtic fans for singing songs that represent the very fabric/DNA of this world famous football club ?mmmmmm
Goin by big Mark Guidi’s comments on the Clyde phone-in the other night that, there might be more to come re: Steven Craven being ‘Jane Ayered’ by the SFA ?mmmmm
I’m convinced that Dallas is working ED from the back !
I might be wrong but, wouldn’t that mean that Dallas would have to be grilled in a court of some kind ?
P.S. Preferably not an Edinburgh one!
ASonOfDan says:
18 November, 2011 at 10:05
A Muslim Rangers supporter who chanted sectarian remarks at a game at Ibrox Stadium has been fined £600.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Strathclyde’s finest did the same by arresting a Hearts fan for shouting anti-Welsh racist abuse at Craig Bellamy. It is a cynical move to arrest someone who has news value to show that they are on the case and arresting all sorts of fans other than Celtic fans..their main target.
The other Jambos at Celtic Park that day would have been shouting or singing anti-Irish racist songs that could have got them lifted but didn’t. Ditto for Chelsea game at Ibrox.
Look at us we are impartial and will lift anyone is the cunning message from the police. While the reality is they ignore the mass choirs of the Protestant bigots because they are mostly of like mind with these people.
How clever are they?
corrib04 at 10:17
I was there and can’t even remember Messi going off injured. Interesting story and should be a fascinating book. Wonder how Deco and Ronaldihno will react to this slur on them.
Mort
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon says:
18 November, 2011 at 10:15
New centre half in January?
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Hopefully it will be a NL signing and not a PL one!
Hail! Hail!
Big Nan
Anti-Irish racism isn’t real racism, you see.
Were it otherwise, people would have been arrested at every match Aiden McGeady ever played in Scotland.
Isn’t it interesting that the police can find just one person making sectarian or racist comments at a football match? Are we to infer that no one else made similar comments? Or is it the old one about them not being able to arrest a crowd?
Wonder if they will arrest one person at Inverness tomorrow?
Big Nan
And were it otherwise, people here would not be on such a high horse about crusty old Sepp Blatter.
People in football in the UK talk about their success in eradicating racism all the time, but try and get The Red Card Scotland interested in things like The Famine Song and you’re on a hiding to nothing. They were not interested. It didn’t happen.
Headtheball says:
17 November, 2011 at 13:14
Ok, if that’s what they request, then fair enough. People now just need a list of what they can and can’t sing. I’ve a feeling that this argument will go on forever and, as many posters have pointed out, what is the next thing to offend them? the green shirts? the ginger hair?
A line needs to be drawn somewhere.”
Couldn’t agree more mate. to me, TBOTOB seems to be no more political, indeed militaristic, than the Soldier’s Song, or Flower of Scotland, but i know which one would end up getting you in bother in terms of this new law and which one wouldn’t.
We need the Polis to produce a list so that we can debate and communicate as to what’s “offensive” and what isn’t. That’s when the real absurdity of the proposed law will be exposed.
Gordon_J
God forbid (for we have all had enough of this, I’m sure), but say some young bucko shouts ‘Up the Ra’ at the game. What could he be arrested for? What law would he have broken?
KevJungle says – “We don’t care what the animals say…” says:
18 November, 2011 at 10:24
tell me people dont really believe all that pl/nl signing rubbish do they? its about as base and ludicrous as the argument gets
Gordon_J, conceivably breach of the peace. It would be very difficult to establish, however, as in my experience if this is chanted at a football game there is demonstrably no peace which is disturbed, the world keeps turning, people keep watching football, and celtic keep conceding from corners.
The new law reads like an extension of the sectarian/racial aggravations already known to the law of Scotland. Something like “wearing a celtic scarf aggravated breach of the peace”; “going to toe game with too many pals with too many vowels in their name breach of the peace” or “just being a wee bit too Irish breach of the peace”. In short, it stinks.
Celtic_First says:
18 November, 2011 at 10:29
Gordon_J
God forbid (for we have all had enough of this, I’m sure), but say some young bucko shouts ‘Up the Ra’ at the game. What could he be arrested for? What law would he have broken?
………………..
In the current climate probably “the to stupid to be allowed out law!”
Canamalar ———
A surprise —- ?
Not being a Hun means that I have no difficulty in seeing the absurd contradictions of a business that trumpets its Quintessential Britishness and belches out its loyalty and support to wee Brenda and all her warriors whilst all the while doing its best to avoid paying the tax which funds Great Britain PLC . Risible , absurd , hypocritical, cynical numb nut political posturing.
I like to think that my tax pays for good things ——— The NHS , Education etc etc but if i really think about tax and what it is spent on I have to acknowledge that the UK taxpayer also paid and continues to pay for things like this –
The B Specials
Operation Demetrius
LongKesh
The R.U.C.
The wages of The First Battalion of The Parachute Regiment in Derry in 1972 .
The guns and bullets used by The First Battalion of The Parachute Regiment in Derry on 30/1 /72.
The wages of the members of The British Royal Regiment who tortured and killed 20 Iraqi civilians in Al -Emarah in March 2004.
The equipment used by those members of The British Royal Regiment when they tortured and killed 20 Iraqi civilians in Al –Emarah..
My time as a UK taxpayer overlaps with all of the above —– do I have a direct responsibility for the things listed above ? Do you ? Do Celtic ? Do Rangers ? Do all UK taxpayers. ? If you didn’t pay tax can you claim it wuznae me ?.
Pigs to feed , warm and sunny , Hun free , way down south.
Ciao , ciao.
Celtic_First,
Breach of the Peace? Or some other made up charge?
Gordon J-Possible paid for by Hooiveld money from Southampton?
VP- You still cuttin’ aboot Hope Street? ;)
gerryguk7,
I mentioned the classic Not The Nine O’Clock News sketch a few weeks ago – the one where a racist cop arrests a black guy multiple times on spurious charges like “being in possession of big lips and curly hair”. Will there be a new offence called “singing Irish sings in a built up area”?
“A Muslim Rangers supporter who chanted sectarian remarks at a game at Ibrox Stadium has been fined £600.”
I Though the media left this sort of stuff behind in the late 80s.
‘A Rangers supporter’ – that is all we need to know. A sectarian bigot reports on a sectarian bigot?
To cut a long story short…..
The ONLY way that Celtic FC and, the minority community it represents in this country will ever stuff the anti/Irish/Catholic/Celtic hating MAJORITY is to put the ball in the net more than the huns!!!
Nothing get’s them more than watching Celtic players and fans united as one in trophy celebrations!!! IMO!
Hail! Hail!
P.S. The sentiments on here the other that we should sing, “Ooh Aah pay yer Tax” would certainly wrong foot the establishment almost like, JINKY in his hay-day!!!
Eyes Wide Open
Great post and how ironic is it that those who are most offended by the IRA support a football club who club who claims to be quintessentially British but has done everything it can to avoid paying tax which funds the British army.
What we are experiencing is an attack on the right of free speech
!!Bada Bing!! says:
18 November, 2011 at 10:37
VP- You still cuttin’ aboot Hope Street? ;)
Wit u oan aboot?
‘Malice and ill will’ I have nothing but malice and ill will for rangers, that will be me jailed then…
HH
New amendments to Bills lodged on 17 November 2011
Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill – Stage 2
Section 1
Patrick Harvie
22 In section 1, page 1, line 11, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
23 In section 1, page 1, line 16, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
24 In section 1, page 1, line 19, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
25 In section 1, page 1, line 23, leave out and insert
Section 4
Patrick Harvie
26 In section 4, page 3, line 23, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
27 In section 4, page 3, line 38, leave out from to end of line and insert
Section 5
Patrick Harvie
28 In section 5, page 4, line 11, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
29 In section 5, page 4, line 13, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
30 In section 5, page 4, leave out lines 14 and 15
Patrick Harvie
31 In section 5, page 4, line 15, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
32 In section 5, page 4, line 29, after insert
Patrick Harvie
33 In section 5, page 4, line 29, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
34 In section 5, page 4, line 29, at end insert—
Patrick Harvie
34A As an amendment to amendment 34, line 2, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
34B As an amendment to amendment 34, line 5, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
35 In section 5, page 4, line 31, at end insert—
After section 5
Patrick Harvie
11A As an amendment to amendment 11, line 3, leave out and insert
steinreignedsupreme, agreed.
No need to know the man’s religion. Other than for the Police to show equality of outcome in their enforcement of the law, a demonstration that they can be trusted with a far wider range of powers of arrest under the proposterous new law.
There is no need for equality of outcomes in terms of who is arrested; apply the law even handedly and if there are more arrestees from one demographic than another, then so be it. Equality of enforcement of the existing law is all that’s needed.
Incidentally, there are more people of one Christian denomination than the other in the country, so if there are statistics showing more arrests for one denomination than the other, then there is surely no great surprise. It actually doesn’t undermine the argument that “each is as bad as the other”. If the Poli’s are so desperate to “even it up” in terms of actual numbers of arrests/prosecutions, they would in fact be saying that, proportionately, one side was actually worse than the other!
Celtic First:
How are you this weather? Hope all is well with the Chester CSC.
The police could arrest anyone who sings the “Ooh Aah” stuff for breach of the peace. It is a common law offence and wide enough to capture almost any form of “offensive” conduct. The argument whether that particular chant is a breach of the peace then becomes one for the courts. The case in Dunfermline Sheriff Court this week may well be used by the defence solicitor. In that case sectarian shouting (very different to what our fans are being accused of) which is not in the vicinity of the particular religious group being targetted was not punished if I recall correctly.
I would expect that any Celtic fan tomorrow who mentions the IRA tomorrow will be lifted and charged with something given this week’s media gloat-fest. If the fans stick to rebel songs which don’t mention the IRA I can’t think of any charge that could be brought against them.
I’d prefer a thumping 4-0 win, several choruses of Let the People Sing, a giant huddle and all the players making a point of thanking the fans for their efforts at the end of the game. I think we can control this entire debate if we belt out the rebel songs but just leave out references to the IRA. Scottish courts don’t operate in a vacuum and Convention rights are there to protect freedom of speech.
Craiginho
I’ve always felt Harvie is a complete and utter tw..!
Is it just me?
celtic40me says:
18 November, 2011 at 10:33
tell me people dont really believe all that pl/nl signing rubbish do they? its about as base and ludicrous as the argument gets
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Only the deluded/blind-folded don’t believe it! IMO!
Hail! Hail!
P.S. If PL backs the hun/establishment v’s the Green Brigade then, PL is inviting a tumbleweed/library type of atmosphere to CP imo!
Good Mornig to the Celtic family from a dry but overcast Central Scotland. Tomorrows game at Inverness comes in the category of a must win match we need to get a run of victories together in order to put pressure on Rangers.We know that Inverness is not an easy place to pick up all 3 points but anything less and our title hopes look like a busted flush. I hope that the Inernational break has allowed us to get a few players back from injury but strangely there hasnt been much football talk on CQN this week.H.H.