I spoke to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, a man who wears his Republican heritage on his sleeve, about the hostile reaction to his comments on modernising the Celtic songbook a few months back. Phil found himself to be an easy target for conspiracy theorists who turned on him for issuing a request to an end of political chanting. I’m sure Neil Lennon will not find anything like the same reaction to his comments in the Sun today, but it remains to be seen if anyone listens.
Neil said, “It’s important that we put a general message out that these chants have no place around our club. To be honest, we are better than that as a club and we always have been, we just don’t need it.
“We are and always have been a club open to all and we do not have issues around sectarianism. We have our own values and traditions but they do not include these chants. We don’t want them at matches and they must stop.”
This is not the first time Neil has given the same message this year. After his earlier comments I actually heard, “Who is Neil Lennon to tell me what I can and can’t sing? I’ve been going to Celtic Park a lot longer than he has.”
We are in a classic social paradox. The reputational damage of political singing is not felt by those who sing, and the risk of personal consequences arising for any individual singer is probably around 1%. And let’s be honest here, for all the supportive flags, banners and “I’m Neil Lennon” proclamations, is Neil respected enough to be listened to, or has he become a modern Che Guevara-poster boy?
Whatever you think of Neil, or his rights to say what you can or cannot sing, he has the best interests of our club in mind whenever he speaks on this subject.
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BontyBhoy
You said the other day you were offended with the bile being posted on CQN, I asked you at least 4 times to say what the bile was that offended you, and as yet you have not answered.
I will ask you again, what was the bile on CQN that offended you.
Or did you just make it up.
Graham Spiers Commentary
Last updated March 21 2011 12:01AM
Another week, another excruciating example of the problem Rangers have with a large section of their support. Walter Smith’s team, going into Sunday’s Co-operative Insurance Cup final as underdogs, won quite a few admirers for their gritty 2-1 win over Celtic.
Alas, no one who was at Hampden Park as a neutral, and who had any understanding of the type of songs that were being sung, could have found anything remotely appealing in the antics of the Rangers support.
For fully 120 minutes the Ibrox legions belted out stuff about the Pope, Fenians, and some of their other favoured subjects.
Quite a few of us have become used to “the Rangers problem” over the years but Sunday at Hampden was still quite an eye-opener. It was the consistent, incessant nature of the bigoted chanting that was truly shocking.
One of the problems we have in tackling bigotry in Scottish football is the sheer ignorance of the subject that we have to put up with. For instance, Kenny MacAskill, the Scottish Justice Secretary, clearly didn’t have a clue what he was talking about, to judge from the fatuous statement he released after attending the match at Hampden.
After the prejudiced chants had boomed out, the following was MacAskill’s take on the whole spectacle. “This was the showpiece everyone wanted to see — it was a great advert for Scottish football,” he said. “The players, management and fans contributed to a memorable occasion, and I urge that their positive example inside the ground is replicated outside it over the course of the evening and beyond. Football is a force for good in society.”
Given the nature of what was chanted inside Hampden, this was an utterly ludicrous statement. MacAskill, clearly, is totally unfamiliar with the sort of problems given an airing at Hampden if he thinks that the sort of chanting which the Rangers fans kept up apace represented “fans contributing to a memorable occasion.” This is risible.
I didn’t expect a Rangers statement yesterday on the shocking tone of their supporters’ singing, and nor was one forthcoming. Rangers’ preferred position on their problem is this: let’s just have a general media silence on the subject, and let’s keep any fuss to a minimum. From Rangers’ point of view, the fewer headlines there are about their problem, the less need there is of any requirement to act.
But that is a tough scenario to hope for. The Ibrox club have already been censured by Uefa over bigotry, and more than that, a number of Rangers supporters’ songs have specifically been banned by European football’s governing body. So it is asking a lot for every newspaper to turn a blind eye (or deaf ear) towards songs which have repeatedly been outlawed.
What is more galling for those who want to be rid of this poison is the seeming ignorance — such as was revealed by MacAskill — or inability in government or police circles to be able to fix it.
Hampden on Sunday rang out to bigoted chanting from the Rangers end, yet the police statistics for “sectarian-related crimes” were paltry, never mind MacAskill’s absurd words about how wonderful it all was.
This isn’t government action. On the contrary, this is inaction, and even incompetence. The truth is, we are getting nowhere today with the problem of sectarianism in football. In fact, we are regressing, Edinburgh summits or not, at an alarming rate.
Rangers, in trying to fight their own specific problem, have lost ground. Indeed, if you were at Hampden on Sunday, with bigoted chant after chant ringing out, you would think that the club had gone back ten years in their quest to solve the problem. And for many others, meanwhile, it actually means very little.
OK, so there is sectarian chanting, they say. So what? What does it matter? Just let it go, let’s just concentrate on the football.
Rangers lack the guts to truly take on their own support on the issue, and the same applies for the Scottish FA.
The docking of points really would force the bigots to stop their chanting, and the SFA has the power to do this, but it is too scared to.
Meanwhile, too many other people won’t touch this problem with a bargepole, claiming the accompanying aggro that comes with such debate simply isn’t worth it.
So Scotland just goes on living with its embarrassing bigotry problem. Ignorance, incompetence and cowardice ensure it.
BontyBhoy says:
17 November, 2011 at 14:16
Please refer to my next post, but hey it’s my own fault for breaking my own promise to myself and scrolling on by. I’ll check in with you again to keep track of the view of the Celtic intelligentsia.
Bontybhoy
you are doing well today with regards your personal pronoun abuse.
Very good boy
Hail Hail
Bontybhoy,I think Lennons actions in the past,his rebelious attitude..fist clenching,one of the Bhoys,go’s before him..I want him to be a great Celtic manager,but I dont want him getting involvef in something that might come back to hunt him..
I think the lead Lenny should be giving us,is to get back talking about the team on the park…
Bontybhoy,
Whats wrong with this question ?
do you agree that the tax evasion by rangers has a direct impact on the lack of basic survival kit of our armed forces, which would imply their financial strategy is responsible for the deaths and injury of soldiers serving in overseas conflits ?
How are we meant to get our place in the Dutch League next season if this debate continues? Friendlies against Huns newco and mini huns newco will not be good enough. We need to move on if we want to see Dutch big 3 regularly.
canamalar
I don’t know, why don’t you post that on FF and find out what Rangers fans think. I could care less. I work in finance, tax evasion isn’t news, mate. It’s wrong, but, it’s not news.
I don’t know how best to put this, without drawing accusations of arrogance and the like, but I think if we could just focus on one issue we might do better here.
If you hate Rangers and that’s all there is to it, then just enjoy hating them. Their tax evasion is being dealt with by the tax authorities, the minority of Celtic fans who have brought the club into disrepute (just a little something for you to get riled about, don’t go too crazy) are being dealt with by the club and football authorities – behind the posturing and ire, you should remember that the club always has dealt with this well and that will be reflected in the outcome.
Anyway, there is no-one on here that this point is more relevant to than you Canalmar – you may be right in everything you think about Scotland, Rangers and politics. Let’s even assume that is the case. You should know that the final outcome will be that no-one will ever sing these kind of songs at a football ground again. That’s how this will turn out, because social evolution is pretty consistent in this respect. You can only ever hope to persuade people to slow that inevitable march towards greater harmony and civilisation. That’s what people want, even those that don’t know it or understand it… I mean how much unrest do you actually want in your life, wouldn’t it get in the way of things like watching football, using the internet and stuff.
to quote ad infenitum…”time to stop working behind the scene and grow a pair”
too much condemnation of our own supposedly from our own.
theres never condemnation of yer mob that are up to their knees in my fellow
fenians blood….strange one that, not.
as well as our side on the pitch being rank rotten,
the men at the helm couldnt give a cahoot about them
and us.
sack the old firm board
BontyBhoy
‘We’re a football club, mate. That’s it’
NO WE ARE NOT! If that is what you think then piss off and support Partick Thistle. This will be the only time I engage with you on this site as that statement disgust’s me. I will leave you with this.
“It’s important that the people at this club can pass on what has been and what remains valuable from our past. These things need to be passed onto the youth that are coming through at the club.
It is imperative that the kids coming through at Celtic don’t just get a good football education but also an education that informs them about how unique this club is, its value and what it means. Try to make them not only good footballers but also good people. That’s why we are very careful about who we appoint. The club should mean something to these sorts of people so that they themselves can pass this on: good football coaches but also exceptional people.
“People like Gordon Strachan have learned much more about this club from being here and I think he definitely sees us as more than just a football club now. If it is true that it’s the religious, social, political or whatever that makes a club different from the vast majority of other clubs then I’m sure also that players who come to Celtic from outside of Scotland eventually grasp not only how big this club is, but also the glory of being part of this great club’s history: they leave with a feeling that this club is something special.” Tommy Burns
My MSP has been told by journalist that the COPFS will publish sectarian crime stats (Sect 78 2003 Act) tomorrow but not sur if this will be what Prof Tom Devine wanted (back to 2004) or if this is just for the last 6 months since the shredder broke down.
Great piece by Michael Kelly in the Scotsman
Reading through the blog it obvious that we as a support are becoming somewhat splintered in regards to the racist… sorry I mean sectarian… hang on that’s not right either, errrmm – illicit, yeah that’ll do, chanting.
But the one element that unites absolutely everybody on here (trolls excepted) is that celebrating and honouring the IRA is neither racist, bigoted, sectarian or illegal – if it was then Lizzy would have moved into to one of her other large but much less lavish houses.
If Celtic PLC were to come out and acknowledge these facts, but request that the support refrain from mentioning those two or three little letters to appease the sensitivities of the Scottish nation (which ironically refuses to admit it’s own narrow minded beliefs towards Ireland and her descendants) then we might just have a chance to move on and start talking about the tax-man and maybe even football again.
I think that the right to chant rather what is being chanted is the bigger issue for those that choose to chant “illicitly”.
Paul 67
Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, as has been said here earlier, is only one individual Celtic-supporting Republican. His opinion carries no more, no less, than any other of that ilk. That you hold him up as some sort of authority, brings into question your own judgement.
This ‘authority’ (P MacG), freelance contributor to the Sun, is the same source that broke the news as to how the appointment of John Fleming, successor to Dallas, would herald a new democratic dawn for us to get an even break from referees.
He is also the reporter who wrote a gushing apologia in mitigation of the four SFA employees who were charged with the anti-Pope emails.
Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s rancid anti-Catholic views, trenchantly expressed in the past, are also his entitlement, but hardly makes him a voice of reason or tolerance.
So please don’t hold him up to me as some sort of paragon of wisdom.
If I knew the extent, range of ‘chants’ that we are asked to stop, I might have an opinion. The fact that the club refuses to give clarity on this is really insidious, and makes it no better than our enemies. It also, as far as I am concerned, makes NL a part of the problem. In that, he is not alone as he joins with Lawwell and the rest in giving encouragement to those who would seek to do us down.
There is something very revealing in the fact that NL has delivered the Celtic message through the medium of the Sun. The callous use of this rag demonstrates clearly the contempt that the club, including NL, hold for the support.
OK,
I’m probably missing something, but, I can’t for the life of me understand the invective poured out to BontyBhoy.
As far as I can see, his posts are sensibly articulated and thought out.
I find myself agreeing with most of his views, so, I repeat, are some of you guys just some sort of lynch mob, or is it merely intolerance of a point of view that doesn’t suit your various agendas?
“One of the things that gives me greatest satisfaction, is that there are people coming to watch Celtic, who wouldn’t normally come to watch Celtic”.
Paraphrased Jock Stein quote.
I don’t think that this applies today and not only because of the standard of football.
Aw Naw
I think we both do better when we ignore each other. I have nothing constructive to share with you. Sorry. Although I did read on here that you are responsible for something like 16% of all internet forum posts. True? Second thoughts let’s just leave it eh?
Exiled… I answered. I gave two examples and I don’t have total recall, so that’s the best you’re getting.
coorslad, well I agree that I’d rather hear him talking football.
Gorbalstam,
I’ve no idea why you’ve got a problem with me. If you explain your concern or ask a coherent question great… i really don’t know what you think about anything. And it’s not like I didn’t ask with more grace than you have afforded me.
Bontybhoy, you didn’t answer the question. Obfuscation may be admired in a lawyer but not a football supporter. As a consequence of not paying tax, the money available to HMG was lowered by around 60 million or so. That would buy a lot of bandages and surgical equipment. Rangers cheated HMG and myself, because I pay my income tax. QED.
Your taking ur eye off the ball again Lenny!!. Get that lot focussed for the ICT game.!!!!
Big Nan
Thanks. Very interesting.
ASonOfDan
I’m not going to bother reading your explanation. Every Celtic fan knows that we are more than a club etc, etc… it’s just talk though isn’t it. We are a football club and not the exclusive property of Irish/Catholics. That was the point, and it was obvious… so I think you’ll find your first and last engagement with my posts was entirely unsuccessful, indeed it could be described as unengaged.
People wonder why I show so little respect for a select few regular posters. Well, see Asonofdan’s obtuse response to my post… almost like he didn’t read it.
I posted a couple of relatively benign thoughts today, and engaged another contributor. I’ve had two polite and engaged responses, the remainder wouldn’t be out of place on the Radio Clyde phone in.
The sickest things I could imagine began to happen this week – I started to agree with Hugh Keevins. I honestly don’t know if I should follow football anymore…
Well said Neil Lennon… I’m hanging onto his words today.
Big Nan
Good yin!!!
Raymac
Yes I agree. Why wouldn’t I. What on earth has that got to do with anything?
canamalar @14 25——
Tax evasion ?—
Tax avoidance costs billions every year
Tax evasion costs billions every year .
Uncollected tax costs billions every year .
The failure to adequately fund the HMRC costs billions in possible tax revenue every year .
The Government decides who gets what from the tax that is gathered. They decide what ” our brave men and women ” receive
Guess that means that a lot of people are possibly [ using your argument ] directly responsible for those deaths and injuries.
Have you ever avoided tax ?
Have you ever evaded tax.?
Any wee jobs on the side .? Ever done a ‘ homer ‘
Bought any booze and fags at the Barras ?.
Used any wee loopholes to avoid /evade paying tax ?
thomthethim
Thanks… I can be an arrogant sod sometimes, but I think you make a good point all the same :)
5 game touchline ban for Hearts boss
Paul67…mmmm
“Whatever you think of Neil, or his rights to say what you can or cannot sing, he has the best interests of our club in mind whenever he speaks on this subject.”
I think we all have the best interests of our club at heart. One mans opinion (because of his position or past record or specific expertise) may be more worth listening to and of attracting more respect than another but primacy of “the best interests” does not apply.
It was excellent Neil pointed out “We are and always have been a club open to all and we do not have issues around sectarianism.”
But why not add how proud the club is of its origins and how consequently understandable was the celebration of Irish freedom? Such a position should not offend anyone. All this from a club which easily retains a clearly recognised world wide persona as a Scottish club, indeed an intrinsically Glasgow one.
The message to fans of simply ‘we don’t like it/we don’t want it’ is a response to the agenda driven by our enemies. Language IS important if you want to take your constituents with you.
Big Nan
Just getting back to you now the post earlier this morning was a C&P from another poster. Lionsroar67 hope you don’t mind.
lionroars67 says:
16 November, 2011 at 23:17
Legal Defence Fund launched
Published on Wednesday 16th November, 2011 by Celtic Trust
Many of you will be aware of the case of the young boy from Section 111 who was held in prison from Friday of last week till late last night when he was released, on the orders of the Lord Advocate, from Polmont Prison. All this for the terrible crime of singing a song at a football match two weeks previously. This case highlights the fear that many of us have around both the introduction of the Offensive Behaviour at Football Bill and the zealous nature of the policing of football in the run-up to it.
Many of us are clear that if we cannot defeat this Bill then we will need to be ready to defend Celtic fans on a case by case basis and some of the existing supporters’ organisations have committed themselves to this. However, there have been a number of calls for a Defence Fund to be set up and this has now been done.
The FAC Legal Defence Fund has now been launched. A bank account is being set up which will have as its main signatories Alex Mosson, the former Lord Provost of Glasgow and a member of the Board of the Celtic Trust; John Andrews, the President of the Celtic Supporters’ Association and Alan Horne, the President of the Affiliation of Registered Celtic Supporters Clubs. In the meantime, you will be able donate via Paypal on those sites belonging to the member organisations of FAC who have this facility ie the Celtic Trust, the CSA, the Affiliation, the Irish Association and the Green Brigade.
If you are donating to the Fund in this way, please remember to indicate that the donation is for the FAC LDF. If you forget to do this on Paypal then a simple email with the details to the relevant organisation should suffice.
The Celtic Trust- with a link to donate
electricity-generating pavement slabs
PS – I am not Irish, have no known Irish family and have never chanted IRA/PIRA nor encouraged anyone to do so. I cringe when I hear them.
To whom it concerns:
I am appalled at the policy of the Celtic Football Club board in the manner in which you have attacked the song traditions of Ireland. Allow me to point out that Irish song and the story it carries is not one of bigotry or hate, but one of survival, of a fight for freedom against tyranny of a fight against racialism and against bigoted legislators and despotic governments. It’s a story of a people fleeing hunger and disease and of a people evicted from their homelands by ruthless landlords.
By banning or outlawing a song is morally wrong and really is just a cosmetic exercise to pacify bigots. It ignores the real problem, which lies at the heart of the society that feels a need of this oppressive action, sectarianism and racial discrimination are the main problem. Ask any Catholic who has sought a house or position of employment over the years and he will tell you about discrimination it is nothing to do with music or song which is just a reaction to the problem. Study the music of the world and you will understand its beginnings its reasons and inspiration. Did America ban the music of the civil rights movement, which drew its energy from the suppressed black community there. What spawned the musical protests in South Africa that gave a voice and hope to a down trodden
victims of apartoid. Get rid of sectarianism and injustice in the society and the song is just a song it’s a harmless story. WHAT ARE THE REASONS WE REQUIRE TO BAN A SONG, DOES IT JUST HAVE TO BE IRISH. WILL WE GO AS FAR AS BANING THE FLOWER OF SCOTLAND OR SONGS ABOUT BONNIE PRINCE CHARLIE or the JACOBITES ARE THEY REBEL SONGS. I think not, try it and you will meet with opposition. Will we ban Braveheart from the cinemas because William Wallace fought against the English is it a rebel movie. I think you are treating your loyal supporters with less than respect and as immature brainless people who cannot make a decision for themselves, who don’t care about the society they live in, who cannot make a choice as to what song to sing. Ask yourself the question, what were the origins of the great club Glasgow Celtic and I believe you will find all the answers. Celtic have the best supporters in the world and their traditions history or ethnic background should not be insulted. Surely our supporters have the right of expression just as the national rugby supporters have the right to sing the flower of Scotland.
The policy you have now embarked upon is unjust and oppressive and if you study history it was counter productive in the past. There is a history of outlawing and banning songs and songsters against the Irish and the Scots , Yet there is more so called seditious music surviving from these traditions than from any other country in Europe. Many harpers and bards were beheaded, many minstrels were exiled or imprisoned for carrying the story of their people. STILL THEIR MUSIC LIVES ON TO THIS DAY. These were the policies of power hungry oppressive governments who needed to suppress opposing opinions in order to maintain power. Are these policies to persist into the 21st century are they not out dated. It is a shame upon a society that needs to suppress a song, the symptom of the problem while ignoring the cause. Why is it that the Irish song tradition is attacked as a problem, they are not sectarian or bigoted in words or expression but carry the story of the Irish peoples struggle against oppression, hunger and injustice. It’s the story of human misery and suffering of a fight against famine and disease and then a fight for freedom and human dignity. This story has as much right to be told as the story of Scotland or any other land. Are we to ban the songs of the great heroes of Scotland like Rob Roy or the great highland chieftains, no, It would not be just and I would oppose it.
When England ruled Ireland she attacked the freedom of the press on many occasions across the centuries, they closed down newspapers who spoke out against them. During the 1790’s they closed the Northern Star in Belfast run by Samual Neilson a united Irishman and Presbyterian who tried to rid Ireland of religious division. The same happened in Dublin when they closed down a paper called the press the organ of a movement that was trying to bring the people of Ireland together and give equal justice to all regardless of religion. They fostered Orangism and bigotry in order to keep the people divided. Pitt said that the Irish must not be allowed to unite because if they do we will lose Ireland. Sectarianism was encouraged and used to place a wedge between the people they feared the union of the PROTESTANT AND CATHOLIC and used orangism to ruthlessly put down the United men who had tried to develop a country where all religions could live with equality and peace. You see it was never in Irelands interest to be sectarian. Then they banned the songs the singers when the music was the last means of expression left to the downtrodden people. They then banned the wearing of the colour green and tortured and persecuted the citizens until the united Irish movement was driven underground or to America.
Ireland and Scotland have so much in common and have had a intertwining history across the centuries. Scoti is the latin word for an Irishman and so derived the name of Scotland the land of the Irish. In the middle ages Ireland was known as Scotia major and Scotland as Scotia minor. Robert de Bruce and his brother Edward were very much aware of their Irish ancestry and fought with the Irish chieftains to win a united Irish kingdom. Colmcille from Donegal brought Christianity and learning to Alba now known as Scotland. The Irish brought a music language and a way of life with them, which we share as a common heritage to this very day. We are brothers and sisters of the same seed so why should there be bigotry or division. The only thing that can keep us apart is ignorance or fear or the policies of division that were pursued in the eighteenth century. The story should be heard and then it can be understood there is nothing to be feared in the story of Ireland or its song.
The Wolfe Tones have carried the story of Ireland to the world for 35 years and have been acclaimed and honoured in many countries. We have received the keys of Cities and were given many civic receptions, we have citations from assemblies and parliaments and are welcomed and sought after everywhere. We have played in almost every major concert hall in the world, from Carnegie hall N.Y. to the famous Paris Olympia, the Albert hall London to the Victoria hall Melbourne. Why is there a problem in Glasgow. Why are the Wolfe Tones and Irish song and music insulted and made a scape goat for what is a sectarian society. We love Glasgow and its people and only bear goodwill towards Celtic or our supporters.
My grand parents lived and worked in Glasgow. They returned to Ireland when my mother was four. Glasgow and Scotland are part of the folklore of the family. I have been a supporter of Celtic since I was a baby. I was often put to sleep or danced on my uncle’s knee to Hail Hail. I am proud of my connection with Glasgow I am proud to be a Celtic supporter but it hurts to be a victim of racist or discriminatory policies. I composed songs referring to the great club and supporters, like My Heart is in Ireland and Celtic Symphony. We have brought an awareness of Celtic to our audience across the world and of course in Ireland which has assisted in popularising the club to a point that it now rivals Man U. in the hearts and minds of the Irish.
I hope that you will redress the awful injustice and rethink your policy concerning Irish SONG by all means speak out against sectarianism but don’t include the WOLFE TONES as such. We have taken the name of a great Irish patriot a Protestant whose ideals sought to unite and rid the country of this evil. YOU can look through the words of a thousand Irish songs and find no referance of sectarianism in them. Thank you for giving me your time
With best regards
BRIAN WARFIELD
FFS – this statement appeared on the Celtic website also – those criticising the Scum (sorry Sun) for picking it up – wanna look at the club website occasionally?
I posted previously about my view on singing within the stadium (club asked me not to do it, so I don’t do it), but I agree with the questions being asked “what is illegal?” “what is a song of hate?”
If those claiming they are fighting for the soul of the football club can’t see that their misguided high horse WILL (not might) bring the club trouble then there’s nothing that will change that, but the club and fans of it, don’t need it.
If people like Lennon and Stein (was he a board stooge too?) can’t change them, then cheers bhoys, enjoy your afternoons.
I do think we need guidance from the club though – Fields of Athenry is OK at rugby but not football? Obviously the Soldier’s Song is OK right? Or not? Is the Celtic Symphony is OK if we change the “ooh ah” line to “ooh ah up the Celts”?
All of those three would I think pass any test on singing but until the club says what is in and what is out, well, we’re all out…
Mort
Here we go again… another article claiming that Neil Lennon has asked the Celtic support for an end to ‘Sectarian’ chanting
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/17/celtic-sectarian-chants-scottish-football?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+theguardian%2Ffootball%2Frss+%28Football%29
Bhoys I am sadden by some of the comments on here. I thought we were all Celts we agree to disagree when required but we stand shoulder to shoulder when we are threatened. Not any more it seems. There have been a number of scurrilous attacks by certain posters on other posters all of which are uncalled for. The internecine arguments weaken us and strengthen those who wish us harm.
The issue as I see it is an attack on civil liberties and the right to express a political opinion within the confines of the laws of the land regardless of venue. A law that guarantees a voice for all political opinions as long as it doesn’t involve hatred or discrimination – Irish republicanism does not regardless of one’s own perception of Irish Nationalism. The right not to be offend is not enshrined in law and nor should it be as the consequences of such a statute would be both Pythonesqe and a gross infringement on each and every citizens civil liberties.
I grew up in North Belfast both my grandfather and father were actively involved in the struggle, my father was imprisoned by the British twice, separated by an escape from the kesh . In my soul and heart I am an unrepentant Fenian B’tard and will be to my last breath but I am on record stating that if the majority of the Celtic support does not wish to hear songs relating to PIRA then we should accede to their wishes. However this is different and a far more insidious element is at work. We are being forced to drop the songs by those hell bent on the destruction of the Club or worse mould us into something resembling Hibs. We need to act with a united front. Disagree with your fellow Celt about the songs but do not side with the Scots establishment. This is, in my opinion, the thin end of the wedge and those forcing the questionable law through will not be content until the Croppies and their descendants have laid down – Don’t let this happen.
BontyBhoy says:
17 November, 2011 at 14:47
thomthethim
Thanks… I can be an arrogant sod sometimes, but I think you make a good point all the same :)
A bit of arrogance on the park would serve us well!
LET THE BONTY BHOY SING ——
Is he singing illicitly ? Are his songs too political ? Are his songs offensive ? Are his songs discriminatory ? or is he simply singing something that some people don’t like .
The irony is fabulous
Does the right of free speech and the right of expression only apply to speech and expression that you agree with ?
bontybhoy,
it is fundamentally relevant to the treatment of my club, we are hated by a majority in scotland because we are accused of supporting the killing of british soldiers.
When no one has actually stated they support of these killings.
The support is for a minority who stood up to imperialist autrocity.
This is the root of all of Celtic’s problems.
Now that the shoe is on the other foot and it can be seen that our foe are directly responsible for the deaths and injury of british soldiers, the very people they profess to support. You and the rest of the hun spend your time deflecting from the simple truth and continue to blame songs of freedom for all the ill in scottish society.
Your prevarication and avoision of the question, and your attempt to point the finger at me with drivel about this ongoing discussion, you have not stopped taking about, a discussion currently going on throughout the Celtic cyberspace, a discussion your unwavering condemnation of the Celtic support, supporting accusations of unacceptable behaviour, whilst soldiers are currently in conflics without the basics as a result of the tax strategy of your club
What’s next? Neil Lennon’s words to be spoken by an actor? :-)
There are times when , if you’re part of something but hold a view which the vast majority of that group are utterly opposed to , you have to recognise that and either concede the point or depart.
I believe those who sing add-ons and songs the club dont want sung – irrespective of whether theyre illegal or not- to be in the vast minority. What’s more neither the club nor the majority are going to change their view.
The minority therefore have a simple choice in my view – conform or depart. They may not like that to the point of feeling much aggrieved but that’s the reality.
They may not want or be able to separate public expression of their political views (to which they’re entitled , agree with them or not) from support of Celtic but it has to be clear to them that they have to.