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New club/same club. What if the boot was on the other foot?

754

I’ve dipped in and out of the online debate on Scottish football this week. Can’t believe how much has been written on the new club/same club debate. To what end?

If the boot was on the other foot, and Celtic were liquidated in 2012, my relationship with post-liquidation Celtic would be my business only. I’d have no interest in anyone else’s view on the status of Celtic. I am emotionally invested in Celtic, so would be happy to accept any ‘same club’ theory as fact, and would have no motivation in listening to any contrary view on the matter.

Similarly, under the same scenario, there’s not a ‘Rangers’ fan alive who would consider a scenario, with an insolvency practitioner considering whether to let newly formed Cevco 5088 use the name Celtic for their football team, and conclude: “Yip, that’s the same Celtic that started back in 1888, whether they get permission to call themselves Celtic or not”.

It’s lunacy and an insult to all our intelligence to suggest otherwise. I’ve yet to meet a ‘Rangers’ fan who could tell me with a straight face that they would be calling Celtic the same club under if the situation was reversed.  In fact, they have openly admitted they would be filling their boots on the subject.

The critical moment in Craig Whyte’s plan was achieved when Duff and Phelps were appointed as administrators, who would subsequently be in a position not to object to a newco calling itself Rangers, as Airdrieonians administrators and liquidators stopped Airdrie United using the name from 2002 until 2013.  Declining to object at Companies House to the use of name was a arbitrary act by an administrator, but it was critical to Whyte’s plan to sell tens of thousands of season tickets.

‘Rangers’ fans, however, can believe what they like, no matter what Uefa wrote. All other football fans will point to this huge liquidation event and hear no more on the matter.

You’re not going to convince one ‘Rangers’ fan, who believes they support the same club that was liquidated, that they are wrong. Why should they deny themselves the history and traditions of their club (OK, I’m at it here, but you know what I mean). Don’t waste your time, you’ll convince no one who doesn’t want to be convinced.

Similarly, if Newco Rangers win 51 of the next 100 titles, and Aberdeen win the other 49, when they recall their remarkable achievements, some Motherwell fan will pop up and say, “Aye, but you let our club die”.

For a century or more, if they survive that long, ‘Rangers’ will pitch up to games and hear “Glasgow Rangers, you let your club die”, up and down the country. Just as you’re wasting your time trying to convince a ‘Rangers’ fan who doesn’t want to be convinced otherwise, the liquidation of Rangers in 2012 will forever be marked when a club with that name takes the field. Forever. It’s not going to stop. Anywhere.

All efforts to expunge this notion from the nation’s consciousness have only raised awareness of the detail of the liquidation.

You and I have been talking about Cognitive Dissonance for a decade. It’s the phenomenon when an individual is caused discomfort by an apparent fact which runs contrary to a cherished belief. It’s what you’re seeing and reading in the sameco coverage, and could have been written for these great times to be a Celtic supporter.

Enjoy the game; serve moderate helpings of Cognitive Dissonance.

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  1. Extract from HATRED FROM THE HORDES

     

     

    BY CQN MAGAZINE ON 9TH SEPTEMBER 2016 FOOTBALL MATTERS

     

     

    Tomorrow is The Glasgow Derby and the hordes will be on the march. VFR800 looks at what’s likely to happen…

     

     

     

    “Events over the last week have shown that this is the most troubling and concerning element of the new club. It was epitomised in their wee jaunt to Béal Feirste last Saturday to play a testimonial against Linfield. The fact that the The Rangers players and officials were ill-advised enough to be pictured alongside members of a loyalist flute band was troubling in itself; the fact that the same flute band were then heading off to march in a commemoration parade for a vile UVF terrorist made this a catastrophic lack of judgement that should have been condemned universally. ”

     

     

     

    One for the employment lawyers amongst us.

     

     

    Is it acceptable under a contract of employment to be placed in such a position if you object to being associated with such a band? Does this contravene employment or Human Rights legislation?

     

     

    It appears that no complaint has been made so no case can be followed up but if an employee of The Rangers had refused to be in that picture or objected after the event, would a court likely find that the employee was in breach of contract or that the employee had been subjected to an unreasonable demand under their employment contract?

     

     

    I expect 10 lawyers to reply and to get 20 different opinions.

  2. Site editor out of touch with perspective of I would suggest the majority of our support in which is the most important fixture within the next Four days. I know which one is more important to me.

  3. ..

     

     

    FTLF..

     

     

     

    ‘but despite all the column inches written over the last four years about the commercial consequences of this game to Celtic, it’ll be the least lucrative game we will play this week, it will have absolutely no impact on our domestic season, and frankly, is a game we could do without. I know one or two in the corridors of power at Celtic Park who view things the same way. ‘

     

     

     

    ..

     

     

     

    Yea that will be the same leeches in the ‘Corridors of Power’.. That Sold All our Best Players in the Last 4 Years and Never reinvested the Transfer Fee because we could Loose 10 games and Still Win the League a Policy that has Denied us Champions League Football..

     

     

     

    Don’t think I’ve Dissagreed more on Anything ever written on a Celtic blog..

     

     

     

    But Hey.. You are Mingling with the Powers that be.. In the ‘Corridors of Power’..

     

     

    WTF

     

     

     

     

    Summa

  4. Certainly doesn’t sound like P67 writing.

     

     

    The New Rangers is all we should be concentrating on. Get that game oot the way then we can get stuck into the Mighty Mighty Barca @ their Home. ;))

  5. ..

     

     

    The Day before a Game against the Team that lie 2nd in the League..

     

     

    And We don’t mention One Celtic Player.. Not a Word about our New Exciting Manager.. Or Any Excitement of the Season ahead..

     

     

    I’ve Never been on Follow Follow but this Surely a All Time Low for CQN..

     

     

    No Wonder Posters are Leaving in their Droves..

     

     

    ammuS

  6. Paul

     

     

     

    While I enjoy your concentration on the Barca game and playing down the importance of tomorrow’s game against the Glasgow Shysters, it will not be ignored by most Celtic fans, myself included. It is important to us that the detritus that follow them wake up on Sunday morning with that horrible realisation that their team were grubbed the previous day.

     

     

     

    Like all Celtic fans, I want to be celebrating (quietly at home) yet another League victory in the way that I have celebrated our three previous league victories this season. I do not want Celtic to lose this game as I do not want them to lose any other game so I hope all Celtic players chosen to play tomorrow are 100% focused on winning. The CL game will take care of itself.

     

     

     

    COYBIG

  7. scotbrownsbhoys on

    Did fans who owned shares in Rangers pre 2012 boast about having shares in the holding company who ran the club. Of course they didn’t , they wur Ranjurs shares. Said shares are now worth feck all as well.

     

    The argument should be, why the argument?

  8. Anyone provide a link to the wee boy zombie claiming they’re the same club video posted earlier this week. Tried in vain to find it without luck. Cheers!

  9. Get on that Summa.

     

     

    That Bhoy will be Desperate to show what he Can do.

     

     

    He is also the spotkick taker.

     

     

    A high price with the New Rangers being so slow @ the back.

     

     

    I had a feeling that Moussa was going to be given a start anyway, even if Leigh was fully fit.

     

     

    ;))

  10. Afternoon champions…..

     

     

    Its the day afore the day efter….and I want all their days to be filled with dread…..a pummelling a thrashing a right good going over…no holding back….speed speed and a big wallop oh quickness…. They will be their usual Hunnish selves so take care ….

     

     

    Annihilation has a braw ring to it….

     

     

    Smiley thing

     

     

    Let the people sing

     

     

    Braw.

  11. BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on

    PAUL67

     

     

    Is it cognitive dissonance?

     

     

    Or is it what is happening before your eyes?

     

     

    I joined this blog in 2009. I’d been telling my-many-hun pals in Kilwinning how much they were in deep sticky smelly stuff for about five years before that.

     

     

    Some took notice,most laughed and said-We are Rangers. Nae effin chance.

     

     

    When it finally went nipples north,I felt for my friends who had invested in a scam,and I felt for everyone who was gonna lose money.

     

     

    But most of all,I felt f…..g terrific!

     

     

    It was only through reading posts here that I could join the dots to the little info I had gleaned that made me realise they were doomed. And I’m so so grateful for that.

     

     

    But we got steamrollered.

     

     

    They were liquidated,no more,and still here.

     

     

    Every law of the land relevant to them has been circumvented. Every regulation in football,the same.

     

     

    A coach and horses driven through Phoenix regulations,player registrations,aw ffs,REALITY!

     

     

    54 titles and over 100 trophies,in FOUR years,uncontested by the authorities but more importantly by our club.

     

     

    Tomorrow we play someone who claims to be something they are not.

     

     

    It’s fitting.

     

     

    They are being welcomed by people who claim to be something they are not.

     

     

    Warmly.

     

     

    Our board.

     

     

    Real Celtic men?

     

     

    Hmmm…

     

     

    The ship sailed on.

  12. If this was Dunfermline who had come up as the promoted club and we played them a few days before a CL tie, how many would consider putting less than our strongest 11 out?

     

     

    If we are in with a shout of qualifying either for the last 16 or Europa League, how many would think it prudent to “rest” key players before the final CL game?

     

     

    Thoughts?

     

     

    FAC the Act

     

     

    KTF

  13. Silver City 1888 on

    Paul’s just lulling them into a false sense of security. We’re putting out our second squad?Our eyes are on Barcelona? Aye.

     

    Shhh! Don’t let on.

  14. ..

     

     

     

    SCOTBROWNSBHOYS on 9TH SEPTEMBER 2016 1:23 PM

     

    Did fans who owned shares in Rangers pre 2012 boast about having shares in the holding company who ran the club. Of course they didn’t , they wur Ranjurs shares. Said shares are now worth feck all as well.

     

     

    The argument should be, why the argument?

     

     

    ..

     

     

    My Dad had 2 Seats when the Club Deck Opened .. Debentures I think it was called.. Just under £3,000 rack one for Him and one for my Nephew .. Name on back of Seat.. Certificate and Seat for Life forever.. He still goes every Home game but had to move down because of his Eyesight.. He and Thousand more have been Screwed be the Like of Murray and King..

     

     

    For Years my Dad picked up.. Took to the Match.. And Drove Home a Fellow Rangers fan that had a Stroke he gave him the other Seat in The Club Deck so he could take him up in the Lift so the Guy could still attend games..

     

     

    The Club/Company have Sh@t on many Supporters like my Dad..

     

     

    Summa

  15. bhoywithseethrougheyes on

    Hi Paul,

     

     

    I tried a couple of times to find out your view on Celtic “getting it right” in regards to the promotion of the game on Saturday but haven’t noticed any reply.

     

     

    You first credited Aberdeen for their website statement (although they hid behind updating their computer excuse rather than making a statement of fact), then asked that Celtic “get it right” in your blog on Sept 2nd, my fear is that we will never get it right on this issue and continue to adopt the approach of the three wise monkeys.

     

     

    I would be interested in your view.

  16. I’m not a betting man so forgive my stupid question please.

     

     

    If you bet Moussa to score a hattrick at 40/1 and he scores 4, please God, does you bet still win?

  17. traditionalist88 on

    vfr800a8 on 9th September 2016 1:39 pm

     

     

    Strongest team, all the time. They go above us if they win, lets no give them any encouragement. This resting players malarkey is a relatively recent phenomenon and too often I see supposedly clever managers rest players for one game in light of an upcoming game, and end up losing both, and all for the sake of what, 1% extra in the tank maybe? Well theres about 3 days to recover, its not like we’re playing again tomorrow.

     

     

    Pick your best team and let them gel even more ahead of Tuesday.

     

     

    I’d maybe make an exception for Lustig given his particular susceptibility to injury but if hes feeling fine no qualms about playing him.

     

     

    Quality players are itching to play, give them a jersey and let them have some fun.

     

     

    HH

  18. Joe Filippis Haircut on

    A message for Brendan Rodgers if there is the slightest doubt about Sparkies hamstring please do not play him in tomorrows game we want the 3 points for sure but we will win easily enough without risking Sparky.We have bigger fish to fry and we should do our utmost to ensure our players are fit for them tomorrows game despite all of the MSM hype is just another game against a newly promoted team. So Brendan wrap Sparky in cotton wool and keep him for the big games. H.H.

  19. Phyllis Dietrichson on

    Philbhoy – yes, you’ll still collect.

     

     

    In fact if he scores 4 you could argue he has scored 4 hat-tricks.

  20. Philbhoy, if you bet Moussa to score a hattrick at 40/1 and he scores 4, do you really care if your bet doesn’t win (unless they win 5-4)?

     

     

    Joe Filippis Haircut: “A message for Brendan Rodgers if there is the slightest doubt about Sparkies hamstring please do not play him in tomorrows game.”

     

     

    I concur.

     

     

    Goals scored in the last 6 Celtic games:

     

     

    Rogic 4

     

    Sinclair 4

     

    Griffiths 4

     

    Dembele 3

     

    Forrest 3

     

    Brown 1

     

    Christie 1

     

     

    Will we struggle to score without Griffiths in the team tomorrow? I suspect not!

  21. Shameless repost

     

     

    Hoping for us to be 4-0 up by half time tomorrow.

     

     

    I won’t be attending, choosing to go golfing instead.

     

     

    I’ve never watched a Sevco game. Don’t know if I ever will.

     

     

    Born in the 1950’s and supporting Celtic from the early 1960’s, Rangers were a factor that I had no choice in.

     

     

    They were Celtic’s greatest rivals long before I existed and, as a Celtic supporter I had to deal with their existence and that of the Old Firm alliance.

     

     

    But that ended in 2012 when Rangers died.

     

     

     

    That a new club was created and now pretends to be the same club as the old club is an irrelevance.

     

     

     

    Only if I choose to make them relevant by attending their matches , or awarding them the undeserved status as Celtic’s major rivals can they become relevant.

     

     

     

     

    I choose not to commend that status upon them.

     

     

     

    It may be in years to come that this new sevco rangers merits the status of being our major rivals by their performance on the football field, but at this moment in time, that is not the situation.

     

     

     

    What we have at the moment is only a collection of remnants from a former existence, masquerading as some pathetic tribute act.

     

     

     

    The only real aspect of this tribute act is the , all too real, gullible, sectarian, racist support that have decided to attach themselves to this new entity.

     

     

     

    I choose not to engage with this base low life.

     

     

    I accept Paul67’s points above but rather than attempt to change the mind of the emotionally distraught sevconian I simply choose to not wish to engage with them.

     

    You know what I feel better, just like not doing Snyde or the press.

     

     

    Eurochamps67

     

     

    whateverpartoftbeingcelticdependsonbeingpartoftheoldfirmicandowithoutCSC

  22. BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on

    PHILBHOY

     

     

    Naw,mate.

     

     

    They don’t count,none of them.

     

     

    Airbrushed like everything else they don’t like.

  23. traditionalist88 on 9th September 2016 1:50 pm

     

     

    I don’t necessarily disagree; however, the point I am making is that there are a lot of people stating that tomorrows game is vital because of footballing reasons; and Paul67 has added a commercial consideration to the mix.

     

     

    I would agree with Paul67 argument that from the footballing and commercial perspective it isn’t as important as Tuesdays game against Barcelona.

     

     

    It is important for a whole bunch of other reasons; primarily that we want to put The Rangers and their (mainly) vile fans firmly in their place. Alongside that it sticks it to the SMSM, SPFL and SFA. Nothing wrong with that!

     

     

    I will go to the game tomorrow expecting no more than a humping for them and will be extremely disappointed if that isn’t the outcome. Will it affect us winning the league if we don’t hump them? No it won’t. It will be a few days of annoyance and negative SMSM headlines, but by Tuesday, it will be forgotten and we will be concentrating on the CL game against Barcelona. How we perform in that game will give us a true measure of where we are in footballing terms and how far we have to go to be a proper CL team.

     

     

    Now, that IS important!

     

     

    FAC the Act

     

     

    KTF

  24. BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on

    VFR800A8

     

     

    Lose on Saturday,no-one apart from us will give a damn about Tuesday.

     

     

    Win on Tuesday,they’ll still be spouting their shite.

     

     

    Win on Saturday,win handsomely,shut them up.

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