Someone kindly directed me to the audio file from BBC Radio Scotland’s Sportsound programme last night. Under recent scrutiny for his role, while general secretary and director of Rangers, in the alleged improper registrations of Rangers players with the SFA, he gave BBC reporter, Chick Young his thoughts on the matter.
While the BBC gave a robust defence of Mr Ogilvie stating that he was not in any way guilty of wrong-doing in relation to tax matters, which I am happy to accept, the entire debate never touched the question which has the potential to invalidate over a decade’s worth of football results.
Article 12.1 of the SFA’s Articles of Association states, “all payments, whether made by the club or otherwise, which are to be made to a player solely relating to his playing activities must be fully recorded”. The redacted EBT agreement published last month by The Sun suggested Rangers would pay the player £1200 appearance money.
The SFA should have no interest in whether tax is due on this money, which is a matter for HM Revenue and Customs, they should only be concerned as to whether Rangers submitted details to the SFA of any payments made in connection to football, including appearance money.
My Young, perhaps trying to help, explained that Mr Ogilvie, as company secretary until 2002, had administrative responsibilities, but took on a legislative role on becoming general secretary that year. This suggests Mr Ogilvie had primary responsibility to ensure Rangers complied with the necessary legislative requirements, including registering payments to players.
Should have mentioned earlier, Mr Young suggested Rangers EBTs “could actually prove, bizarrely, to be one of the great coups of all time”.
He’s not wrong there.
We will address comments by Sir David Murray, widely reported this morning, later.
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Murray Group finance director Mike McGill yesterday outlined the chronology of the sale of Rangers and in it he states “We were always assured the funds belonged to Whyte. Involvement of Ticketus or other parties was never disclosed, let alone consented to.”
It was MIH who advised Whyte of the availability of Ticketus and that the club had used them in the past!
OUR LIVES BEGIN TO END THE DAY WE BECOME SILENT ABOUT THINGS THAT MATTER.
Headtheball on 14 March, 2012 at 12:45 said:
“On the other side of the scale one elderly lady came in last week and offered £20 from her pension”.
As I read the above I started to whistle the Our Tune theme from the Simon Bates Radio One show – which used to provide endless entertainment in a former workplace many years ago.
I feel there is only one song fitting for Granny Lambeg’s gesture … although the performers may have to ditch the first part of their name on this occasion…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsXJcIODLtQ
Shelbourne1916 12.59
Main Stream Media
But I like
Massively Sycophantic Morons
Just don’t go and see them at the Owl Burns Howf.
Shelbourne1916 on 14 March, 2012 at 12:59 said:
Excuse my ignorance but when referring to the media, what does MSM stand for ?
+++++
Mainstream Media
Moonbeam’s Succulent Meat
Murray’s Sugared Media
-take your pick (the first one)
Just waiting for Pauls article.
CELTIC CLAIM ONE OF THE NINE IN A ROW TITLES :) :) :)
Minty’s Suck Mob
Has anyone from the Rangers Fighting Fund been able to articulate under what conditions, to whom and for what purpose money raised will be released from the fund to Rangers? Or is some wee old woman unintentionally gifting her pension money to help pay the Follow Follow hosting fees?
I suppose we shouldn’t be too demanding as the Fund organisers did manage to setup a bank account and produce a 50 word poster that only featured 2 obvious mistakes. A triumph by any measure.
Whilst the still overpaid players leave Murray Park in their Audis, BMWs and Mercedes, with blacked out windows, a wee pensioner drops in £20 from her pension to help out with the bills. Any other club in the world would see this for the utter shame and disgrace that it is, yet the huns are proud. Sums them up really, robbing from the poor to give to the rich.
Alex Thomson blog starting to get boring very quickly indeed. I don’t care that wee jimmy who has supported Dunfermline all his life has a chip on his shoulder because we get 50,000 every home game and no-one wants to watch his p1sh club…
Always prefer The Laptop Loyal to MSM if I am being honest.
Steinreignedsupreme:
What I was really trying to do was crystallise how absurd and ridiculous that particular line of journo argument actually is by stripping their essential points down to brass tacks…I suppose it just back fired on me.
ASonOfDan 13.08
Kind of feel that way myself, he can dig into Celtic if he wants but he’ll come up with Zip, better off following the Rangers money (or lack thereof).
As for printing comments from fans of badly run clubs up and down Scotland, well that will get very boring very quickly.
Media Stupify Morons
I thought people were joking about the old wumin and her pension!
Nobody ask Walter his thoughts when he was advertising yesterday He kicked off this mad spending and continued with Murray.
You aren’t telling me he never knew about this are you ?
Super Hooper!!! His comment regarding Bougherra is most interesting.
THE smile which spontaneously appears on Gary Hooper’s face says so much more than words.
The journey he has travelled in the 20 months since signing for Celtic from Scunthorpe is never far from the thoughts of the striker.
But, it is really brought home to him every time he approaches his place of work.
“When I am driving to Celtic Park, I look at the stadium and think to myself, ‘I play there every other week in front of 60,000 fans,” explained the 24-ear-old Essex Bhoy.
“It does it to you. Compared to where I played before, it is way ahead. But the Scunthorpe, Hereford and Southend days helped me to get to where I now am.
“Even the time I had at non-league at Grays helped me to reach this point, and it is all paying off, big style.”
The first leg of what could be a historic Treble is up for grabs this weekend when Hooper heads to Hampden for the Scottish Communities League Cup final.
And the rewards for his struggle to rescue his career from the gutter after being rejected as a kid by Spurs could be about to multiply.
Hooper has already collected one winner’s medal, in last season’s Scottish Cup final, and a return to the National Stadium this weekend has fired him up for more.
Stepping out in front of a full house at Hampden will be light years away from plying his trade at Scunthorpe, Southend, Orient and Hereford, where a career which had been sent back to square one with that early knockback was put back on track.
Hooper never lost his self-belief, and immediately threw himself into climbing the ladder once again with Grays Athletic in the Isthmian Premier league.
The trajectory since then has been in one direction and Hooper is now considered the top striker in the SPL, with a value far in excess of the £1.6million he cost Celtic in the summer of 2010.
Everywhere I have played has helped me reach this point. It is all paying off now
He arrived nursing the legacy of an injury which had hampered him in the final few months of his two free-scoring years at Scunthorpe, but quickly confirmed he was the man for the job.
However, a series of niggly knocks caused him to flit in and out of the side, and interfered with his progress.
Despite this, Hooper still managed to score 22 goals on his debut season, but it could and should have been so much more, had he not been the victim of a particularly nasty foul committed by Madjid Bougherra during an Old Firm game at Parkhead in March.
The consensus is Hooper never fully recovered from that raking of an Achilles, though he did soldier on as best he could.
“At first I thought nothing of it,” he explained. “But when I saw it on TV, I couldn’t believe what he had done.”
The recovery was still in progress by the time the season drew to a close with the Scottish Cup final against Motherwell, and it did at least provide a successful conclusion to the campaign.
It also allowed Hooper and Co. to exorcise the ghost of their first final as a team, when they had gone to Hampden as clear favourites to win the League Cup against Rangers.
But Nikica Jelavic snatched an extra-time winner, and the pain of that memory is still raw, as Hooper explained.
“It’s in the back of your mind that we lost that day. But we just have to learn from our mistakes and go for it this time, as we’ve been doing in the league and in the cups all season. The gaffer has not held back, and neither have the players.
“The expectation to win every game is here from the fans. At a club this big, you want to win every time you play.
“The gaffer has not sat us down and told us to win everything, he just picks a team and tells us not to lose.
“But winning is in everyone’s mind now. We want to win every game we play. That’s the aim.”
They have been hitting their target more often than not this season, as their recent record of 20 wins in a row confirmed.
Hooper has been at the forefront of this push for prizes, and acknowledges an injury-free campaign has allowed him to make an even bigger contribution than he did last term.
“I think we have been more solid, and that is proved in the unbeaten run we are on,” he said.
“Last season was different for me because I was out a few times with bits and bobs. This season I’ve had a better run. I’ve also been playing every week, and that gets the match sharpness up.”
Twenty goals has been the result, and many of these goals have secured valuable points and cup wins.
But, after a very difficult spell around September and October, it is Celtic’s improvement at the back which has provided the platform for the goals of Hooper and Anthony Stokes to propel Celtic to the threshold of a Treble.
The transformation in their fortunes, then, has been remarkable. However, as the main striker, did Hooper feel under more pressure to find the net when his defence was struggling to keep the ball out of their net?
“In a way, yes,” he revealed, before adding, “But there’s pressure, no matter what.
“Even if the defenders are keeping the ball out of our net, we’ve still got to do our job to score to get the three points or to get us to the next round of the cup.
“My job, along with Stokesy and the other forwards, is to score goals, so there is going to be pressure every time we play.
“But this season I think we’re doing really well, and the run we’ve been on has been amazing. Our defen-ders have been really good, and Fraser Forster has been in great form keeping the ball out of his net.”
More of the same in the remaining games and the season will end with a trophy haul of which everyone involved can be justly proud.
And there is the promise of much more to come, such is the age of the squad Lennon has assembled.
Holding on to the likes of Hooper will be vital if their potential is to be realised, but the predators are circling.
Celtic have already rejected the chance to make a three-fold profit on their initial outlay, and want to secure their asset by negotiating an even longer contract with the rising star.
Talks planned for January were postponed until the summer to allow Hooper to focus entirely on this important schedule of games, and the indications are that this plan is working.
“I think we are leaving it at the moment,” he said of the negotiations. “I’m very happy up here, but we just want to get these games out of the way, then we will talk.”
Cheers lads, been bugging me, was absent the day we started using it!
Rangers in administration: Donald Rumsfeld had it right all along about the unknown unknowns
Rangers are in such a crisis that for all the unanswered questions there are, there is much more we don’t know.
By Roddy Forsyth11:00PM GMT 23 Feb 2012
“There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.” – Donald Rumsfeld
When the former US Secretary of Defense made the above statement in 2002 he was mocked by the Plain English Campaign for what looked like impenetrable jargon. But fast forward to the shambles at Ibrox and ask yourself – could anybody have expressed the situation more cogently than Rumsfeld?
Certainly, there are innumerable sources of confusion in the saga of Craig Whyte’s nine months as the man in control of Rangers. For example, how many times has it been said or written that the HMRC case against Rangers in respect of Employee Benefit Trusts brought about the crisis?
The impending judgment – and the possibility that it might go against Rangers – was never going to be make it easy to attract fresh long-term revenue streams but, again, the question can be answered with another question: does anybody entertain for one moment the notion that the club would now be in the hands of the administrators if Sir David Murray had still be in charge?
Yes, it is true that the club could have tipped over what the bean counters like to call an insolvency situation in Murray’s time. The first time, I can reveal here, was back in 1999 after the Bahamas-based Joe Lewis had bought 25 per cent of Rangers for £40 million.
Lewis thought he would get fat returns if he bought shares in several European football clubs and they prospered from shares in lucrative TV deals. The broadcast bonanza, however, did not materialise and Lewis watched in horror as Murray siphoned cash straight into Dick Advocaat’s transfer account and Rangers went from £20 million in credit with the bank to an overdraft of almost £21 million – a transformation that took care of Lewis’s input through his investment vehicle, ENIC.
Lewis had not grasped that Murray meant what he said about trophies being more important than profit. Howard Stanton, ENIC’s man on the Ibrox board, told Murray to stop spending on players.
When Murray took not a blind bit of notice, Stanton resigned. Lewis threatened to put Rangers into administration but decided instead to sell his ENIC stock while it still had some value and the crisis passed. The next talk of administration was heard when the global recession overtook Rangers and the Lloyds Bank Group inherited the club’s £30 million debt from HBOS.
Lloyds, though, denied reports that they had threatened administration. Instead, a rigorous debt reduction programme was implemented at Ibrox which saw Rangers’ overdraft drop to £18 million, which is where Craig Whyte came in. And it is also where the Rumsfeld approach might offer a little clarity:
THE KNOWN KNOWNS
This time last year Rangers were solvent and trading within the club’s limitations. The half-year figures for June-December 2010 showed a reduction of turnover of £4 million to £33.7 million but there had also been three fewer home games. Pre-tax profits were down from £13.1 million to £9 million as the recession bit; £2.7 million had been set aside to cover an HMRC action – the “small tax case” – and the amount of debt to be repaid over the next year rose from £25.5 million to £28.9 million, but the club had increased cash in hand from £600,000 to £5.2 million and money owed to Rangers increased from £7.8 million to £10.7 million.
The overdraft of £18 million at the time of Whyte’s takeover was described by the previous Ibrox chairman, Alastair Johnston, as “good business” on the grounds that Rangers had a credit line with a bank when many businesses could not get similar facilities and that the debt was easily serviceable at a time of unusually low interest rates.
Johnston told me that if the Whyte takeover did not go through then Rangers would probably pay the debt down by £1-£1.5 million a year to allow for the squad to be refreshed while reducing liabilities. At the time of the takeover, the value of Rangers’ principal playing assets – Allan McGregor, Nikica Jelavic, Steven Naismith, Kyle Lafferty and Steven Davis – was about equivalent to the money owed to Lloyds and HMRC for the small tax case.
We also know that, despite his frequent and outright denials, Whyte used the £24.4 million advanced by Ticketus against season ticket sales to pay off the bank debt. We know that he also mortgaged catering revenues in similar fashion.
We know that – going into the takeover – there was no reason to suppose that a reputable buyer with the resources displayed by Whyte to Murray should have brought the club to their current plight. We know that police have requested information from the administrators – which should be handed over today.
THE KNOWN UNKNOWNS
How could Murray have overlooked the fact that Whyte had previously been banned from acting as a company director?
I understand that it was actually Murray who suggested that Whyte could approach Ticketus for an advance against season tickets. Fair enough – Rangers had sometimes used the facility to smooth cash flow late in the season.
But why did nobody ask how much he had got from Ticketus – and when he had got it? Why did Ticketus advance money to man who did not yet own the resources they bought? If Ticketus hold no security with Rangers, what resources did Whyte use as collateral?
If they were his own resources, why did he not deploy them to keep the club out of administration? If they were not his resources, whose were they?
Why did he say that the gap between Rangers’ income and expenditure was partly exposed by failure to qualify for the Champions League group stage? The previous regime never budgeted for more than one home leg in Europe unless they qualified automatically for the Champions League group stage.
Who is Whyte? Companies House records have him as White as well as Whyte and with two birthdays, two years’ apart.
Where is he? Last night none of his four PR spokesmen or administrators had heard from him since Tuesday.
THE UNKNOWN UNKNOWNS
If we knew these, they would fall into the previous category. Perhaps they are best summed up by another Rumsfeld utterance which could be applied to Rangers at this time: “Go massive. Sweep it all up. Things related and not.”
THE KNOWN UNKNOWNS
How could Murray have overlooked the fact that Whyte had previously been banned from acting as a company director?
I understand that it was actually Murray who suggested that Whyte could approach Ticketus for an advance against season tickets. Fair enough – Rangers had sometimes used the facility to smooth cash flow late in the season.
But why did nobody ask how much he had got from Ticketus – and when he had got it? Why did Ticketus advance money to man who did not yet own the resources they bought? If Ticketus hold no security with Rangers, what resources did Whyte use as collateral?
It was the above part of Roddy “Tam” Forsyth that I wanted to highlight
I am surprised that nobody has questioned Roddy about this
Hail Hail
Can someone explain please;
Ticketus own a block of tickets for club A
Club A is liquidated and “ceases to exist”
A newco club B is born, backed by Ticketus
Ticketus now own a block of tickets in club B
How can they demonstrate that Club B is a different entity from Club A, and are not liable for their debts?
The Lapdogs are forever telling us Campbell Ogilvie is the best Administrator in the game,oh the irony.
Jim Farry was once proclaimed as the best administrator in the game….look what he got up to.
I wonder why the ftt case was held in private. Channel 4 should loook into that.
Starts off not bad and then unfortunately, Graham Spiers gets to put his tuppence worth in…
(CNN) — Once labeled the richest football club in Britain, Scottish champions Glasgow Rangers are now on the brink of extinction.
The club that boasts a record 54 league titles and 60 domestic cups since being formed in 1872 has sunk to the lowest ebb of its illustrious 140-year history.
Already in administration and with a potential tax bill of $118 million, the genuine prospect exists that Rangers — one half of the Old Firm rivalry with Glasgow neighbors Celtic — could be about to fold, inflicting irreversible damage on the Scottish Premier League.
So if a football club with as proud a history as Rangers can come so close to the precipice, how likely is it that the disease of financial mismanagement will claim other high-profile scalps across Europe?
Football’s rising costs
According to football finance expert Simon Chadwick, many clubs on the continent are similarly stretched as they grapple with soaring wages and transfer fees — and a failure to make the most from their assets.
PSG’s push for football glory Chadwick, a professor of Sport Business Strategy at the UK’s University of Coventry, says the next five years could be critical in shaping the long-term future of football in Europe, as cash-rich clubs in Russia, China and the Middle East compete for the globe’s best players.
Neymar dealing with the pressure “There are two common elements to what is happening in Europe,” he told CNN. “The first one is revenue generation. A lot of clubs simply don’t have a notion of the ways in which they could alternatively generate revenue other than tickets sales.
Brazil’s talent staying at home “The other element is cost control, and obviously that relates to player transfer fees and wage costs. If there was moderation in the industry generally, if salary costs and transfer fees could be moderated in some way, that would ease clubs’ financial problems.
“Increasingly you’ve got clubs in China, in Russia and in some parts of the Middle East that are paying huge transfer fees and huge wages. In many ways it’s very difficult for clubs to control their costs because many of the mechanisms are outside their control.”
Driven by debt
Chadwick’s assessment of the general health of Europe’s clubs is bleak, with teams in Italy, Spain, Belgium, Holland, Portugal and even Germany — the one league held up as a beacon of financial integrity — struggling.
Even two of the biggest clubs on the continent, Spanish duo Barcelona and Real Madrid, who drive huge wealth and success, are operating on a huge debt base.
“Whilst Barca and Real are massive revenue-generating entities, their costs are very high,” Chadwick said. “The most obvious elements are transfer fees and salaries. As a consequence of that, if you look at the two of the biggest three club debtors in the world they are Barcelona and Real Madrid.
“Outside Barcelona and Real there is no conception of the need to manage their organizations better, to manage their businesses better or commercialize in any way. In terms of revenue generation and cost control, a lot of Spanish clubs are operating in the dark ages.”
In many ways it’s very difficult for clubs to control their costs because many of the mechanisms are outside their control
Simon ChadwickThe German Bundesliga is renowned as being a model competition, where the football fan is king. Supporters retain a majority stake in their club, tickets prices are affordable, wealth is distributed far more equally than in other leagues and wages are kept under control.
Chasing Champions League cash
But Chadwick points to the example of Schalke, a club that finished in the top three in Germany four times in the past seven years but is now grappling with the debts incurred through building a new stadium. The Royal Blues are desperately hoping that qualification this year for Europe’s top club competition, the Champions League, will prove a timely boon to their bank balance.
“Schalke is in a very precarious financial position but many people say German football is a role model for financial propriety and good management — it’s not. There are problems all over Europe,” Chadwick said.
He sees Dutch outfit Feyenoord, regarded as one of the Netherlands’ big three sides alongside PSV Eindhoven and Ajax, as a club facing a typical, modern-day predicament.
“Feyenoord are in a much more precarious position than PSV and Ajax for the simple reason that they are not qualifying for Europe and yet they are still very ambitious,” Chadwick said.
“The big challenge for Feyenoord is to go for Champions League football and get it really soon, otherwise their business model is not sustainable. Then they will have to develop a business model that is consistent with being a solvent member of the Eredivisie, but basically mid-table plodders.”
A global power shift?
With European football at a crossroads, UEFA’s new Financial Fair Play (FFP) initiative could prove a masterstroke of timing. The rules, which aim to force clubs to live within their means, come into force next year.
“FFP could be the moderating force in the labor market but one of the big issues is that the football labor market is no longer dominated by the Europeans, it is now a global labor market,” Chadwick said.
“When you’ve got the likes of (former Chelsea striker) Nicolas Anelka on a reported $268,000 a week in China and Samuel Eto’o on reported $553,000 a week in Russia, this is fueling the inflationary spiral.
If one of the Old Firm was taken out and shot at dawn it would greatly diminish the other half
Journalist Graham Spiers”As we see in any market, resources flow to where the returns are greatest. I think we’re potentially on the cusp of a real shift in global power in football simply because clubs elsewhere in the world can afford to pay for the likes of Anelka and Eto’o.”
Scottish giants in jeopardy
Should European clubs need any reminder as to what despair can emerge from chasing success on the field, they need only look at Rangers.
The Glasgow team’s slide into administration relates to an unpaid tax bill of $14 million, incurred after businessman Craig Whyte bought the club in June 2010, but they are also being pursued by the UK government, which says an astonishing $118 million is owed in back taxes.
A tribunal is due to rule on the case this month, and if Rangers lose, they could be wiped off the map forever.
“If Rangers were to go into liquidation it would be absolutely unbelievable,” Scottish football expert Graham Spiers told CNN. “I’ve been writing about this story for the last 18 months and I still cannot believe it.
“The club would probably be reborn in some kind of way, but just facing the fact that for a period in history Rangers might cease to exist does seem unbelievable.”
A two-team league?
Much of the interest aroused by the Scottish Premier League is based on the intense rivalry between Rangers and Glasgow neighbors Celtic, a divide along sectarian lines that is famous around the globe.
But officials at Celtic, a club proud of its Catholic and Irish heritage, insist they feel no sympathy with their Protestant bedfellows, and can continue to thrive even if the blue half of Glasgow goes under.
Whether the league could is another matter, given that no club other than Rangers or Celtic has won the title since Aberdeen’s triumph in 1984.
“The thing Scottish football does have is this brand called the Old Firm and whether you call it car crash television or not, everybody is attracted to it,” Spiers said.
“Celtic fans are stupidly dancing on the grave of Rangers, because Celtic need Rangers. Celtic are greatly diminished if their great rivals disappear. If one of the Old Firm was taken out and shot at dawn it would greatly diminish the other half.”
At one stage this season, Rangers led the league by 12 points. But a run of poor form, combined with the 10-point deduction incurred for falling into administration, means Celtic are now 21 points clear and certainties for the title.
Ironically, the Hoops could wrap up their 43rd league title at Ibrox in the Old Firm clash on March 25.
AWE NAW @ 13 20—-
Yes —– there sure is a lot of meat in there.
Gary Withey will know a lot of the answers .
Misled Swindled Mediamen
What is not astonishing is their belief that our dancing on their yet to be dug grave is some kind of instantaneous reaction and is not a well thought out reaction to the treatment that Celtic have suffered at the hands of Rangers cheating and their sectarian bent that has pervaded the houses of the SFA the SPL , BBC Scotland, most arms of the written media , The Scottish police and the Scottish government
It is high time that this was put out in the public domain.
The list of offences is totally awesome as the Americans would say and this time they would be right.
Hail Hail
Len Brennan,12:33.
Jelly and ice cream on the menu for Monday lunch, at a select gathering (invite only). Tuesday may be busy too
The Chic Young interview is good on many levels… not least the utter disbelief he displays when it’s put to him that Mr Ogilvie could possibly have had an EBT himself. That couldn’t possibly be right, could it? No, thought not
Aside from all this Rankers talk.
Who amongst the CQNers would like to see more experimentation in line ups regarding the league run in- excluding the huns game at the Skid Bowl?
I would like to see Paddy get more of a run in at the expense of a jaded looking Forrest.
I would like to see more of Dylan McGeouch and maybe a few more of the up and coming youth stars such as the in form Tony Watt, as well as Paul George.
Izaguirre needs more game time ( home games would be ideal). Would like to see Brozek ( what after all would be the point of signing him- will he end up losing match fitness?)
Jaurez- is it over him? Ibrahim ( preferably at home games) and Lustig ( who some people are writing off after ONE game).
wonkyradar – Enter the dragon, Zheng Zhi. (thumbsup)
I would make all of them hand in their passports!!
ROC EBT CY NO, OGR YES? por cierto
I hear there’s already a hit US TV show about Rangers.
Called “The Walking Dead”. (thumbsup)
Was Roddy Forsyth invited into Inmate in waiting Murray’s wee meeting yesterday or does he posses to much intellect even though he is a Murray anus licker ?
Does he write for an organ that Sir David has no influence over ?
Why is Channel 4 stealing a march on the English based papers ? Could it be that the Telegraph, The Guardian etc. have employed Murray boot lickers for too long and those employees can no longer get accurate copy on their sheets ?
is this why the Rangers articles from these papers are now accredited to staff and agencies ?
It would kind of hint at the fact that they are no longer prepared to be malleable ?
It must be akin to a very old Lion finding his life long watering hole has dried up.
If they end up unemployed it can only be a good thing.
Hail Hail
philvisreturns
I think Zheng Zhi is cup tied at the moment.
For every £1 Whyte spends
I will spend £20
“Old Mother Hubberd”