On writing Celtic, or their manager, off


Sentiment this week is all so familiar from nine years ago, almost to the day.  15 October 2011 was when Kilmarnock established a three goal lead over Celtic, only for Anthony Stokes (2) and Charlie Mulgrew to save the blushes with a draw.

When an opportunity arose that week I felt I had to tell a ‘senior source at the club’ that his manager was not up to the task and that Rangers were on their way to winning four-in-a-row.  The response included “get a hold of yourself”, “Emilio will be back shortly” and “we’re going to win the league”.

I was wrong about Neil Lennon and the league, it was a lesson.  We have made mistakes every season since, as has Neil, including several this season, but some perspective, Odsonne, Ryan, James, and Christopher will return, as will Hatem, Nir and Mikey, whle Albian and Leigh will reach full fitness.

What you saw at the weekend is not the team who are going for their fourth consecutive treble, or who topped a difficult Europa League group a year ago.  We will improve significantly and I’ve no appetite to be told to get a hold of myself again.  There will be no need for a towel retrieval service.  If you write this Celtic team off – including the manager – you have not been paying attention.

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  1. SFTB @ 9.58



    You are at the madam proving beyond any shadow of doubt that a charlatan with some stats is a danger to everybody else’s sanity.



    Keep digging that hole — the hole where you suggest that NL of today is a better CFC manager than BR of yesterday. Aye right as they say in West Central Scotland.



    Your analysis is forced / partial / slanted and belongs underneath a bridge.



    What gives with this — did BR give you a hard time at a parents night?

  2. SFTB @ 9.58 …



    You are the Kemi Badenoch of CQN — forever trying to tell us that what we see with our own eyes / hear with our own ears is not the truth in any way shape or form.



    You do NL a disservice with your fan boy stats and analysis.


    You are trying to turn him into something he demonstrably isn’t.



    Are you at the wind up?

  3. MADMITCH on 20TH OCTOBER 2020 11:43 PM


    SFTB @ 9.58




    You are at the madam proving beyond any shadow of doubt that a charlatan with some stats is a danger to everybody else’s sanity.




    Keep digging that hole — the hole where you suggest that NL of today is a better CFC manager than BR of yesterday. Aye right as they say in West Central Scotland.




    Your analysis is forced / partial / slanted and belongs underneath a bridge.




    What gives with this — did BR give you a hard time at a parents night?






    It was a cordial disagreement/discussion, absinthe need for personal jibes.

  4. Clash city boy


    I would think that all those managers would like to promote young coaches as I am sure the had a helping hand in their careers


    John Collins not for me ,I have heard through the grapevine that he thinks he is above most players so not a good position to start from ie do more press ups than me etc


    Young good coaches with ambition are out there go find them Celtic

  5. Clashcitybhoy



    Possibly right that they wouldn’t answer the phone. Maybe Van Dijk Would put a word in with Klopp though!



    I’m not sure whether he’s still “got it” but bearing in mind DD talked a while ago about offering him a job back when trying to stop 10, a chat with Alex Ferguson about some good coaches to work with Lennon might be a wise move – part of the reason he was successful for so long was recognising when he needed a fresh perspective and impetus from his coaching team – he went from Kidd in his early success to McLaren to catch up and overtake Wenger to Quiroz to become more controlled and win his second EC.

  6. HT – all competitions. Possibly not a like for like comparison to the NL 80% win ratio, but close enough to make the point I think.

  7. Classic diversion tactic by the Celtic board……



    ‘The team’s playing pure shite, but we’ve HammyTim back posting on CQN. Are you not entertained???’



    HH jg 😉

  8. JAMESGANG on 21ST OCTOBER 2020 12:12 AM


    Classic diversion tactic by the Celtic board……







    ‘The team’s playing pure shite, but we’ve HammyTim back posting on CQN. Are you not entertained???’








    disgraceful coment.

  9. Saint Sivs



    If your comment is for real, then you have no idea how often and how tight I’ve hugged that Bhoy in my arms.



    I’m sorry if my humour is lost on you. I’m just chuffed to see a great Tim posting again on here.



    HH jg

  10. JAMESGANG on 21ST OCTOBER 2020 12:21 AM


    Saint Sivs







    If your comment is for real, then you have no idea how often and how tight I’ve hugged that Bhoy in my arms.







    I’m sorry if my humour is lost on you. I’m just chuffed to see a great Tim posting again on here.







    HH jg






    Easy now.



    I thought for a moment , someone had dived in and hijacked some of the well known names.



    keep it lit.

  11. Saint Stivs



    You too keep it lit.



    I’ll admit it, I’m a big fan of the daftie in question. Just glad he’s not up another bloody mountain with his gorgeous wingman!



    Stay safe.



    HH jg

  12. TIMHORTON on 20TH OCTOBER 2020 11:55 PM



    HT good to see you back, now if only we had some info. on SOT.



    *GG as well

  13. The SFTB thesis as outlined is just one variation of the collective frustration.



    Frankly, it honestly never entered my head to compare them as coaches, mostly because what’s the point.


    One was but never will again be Celtic’s coach while the other has had (still having) two stints at it.


    It’s like comparing teams from 2 different eras when so many other variables are disregarded for the sake of convenience. You’d need to level the playing field before anything meaningful could be accomplished & I keep returning to ‘What’s the fecking point?’ So you end up with your own particular answer & then what? Like a video game without any more levels – you just close the book & walk away.



    The more important issue is why we as a club lurch from hit to miss, from hot to cold, from old style Cloughie managers to more methodical, cerebral managers like Rodgers or Deila?



    We have no overall discernable Vision which of course means that we have no real consistent policy on the types of players we want to sign. All of these recent managers have had different signing priorities based on their personally preferred style of play. I still cringe when I think of Craig Gordon floating a 9 iron pass out to KT on the touchline, a pass that was so long in the air that by the time it got to him his opponent was well placed to blooter KT onto the running track. Rodgers’s order was to play it out from the back. I have many more of these square pegs in round holes scenarios as players bought under one manager find themselves obliged to play for the guy, in his system, whether you can or not.



    We might not be a Barcelona or an Ajax but both have shown that at different ends of the football financial spectrum in Europe that to succeed, you need to know what you want to achieve how to achieve it & what you’re prepared to sacrifice to get there – a Vision.



    Neil Lennon is a good manager. Rodgers is a good manager. Ronny Deila is a good manager. Gordon Strachan was a good manager. Martin O’Neill is a good manager. That’s it for me – on this issue anyway.


    Whether Neil is the right manager for Celtic now is a possible discussion topic but to change managers at this stage in the season, this season – would require Dermot pulling out a rabbit of Pochetino quality to calm shattered nerves. It’s not going to happen – (yet if we’re to believe the PR dept. in Donegal).



    It’s not a change of manager so much as a change of culture & direction we need – in my humble opinion.


    Without an over arching vision that is sustainable. (no not a sustainable business model to make the P&L account look good at the AGM) A Vision for football success that is sustainable – which means of course that defeats have to be palatable – just as Ajax accept that to bring on your own Quality Street Kids you have to allow them the space to lose matches.



    Our recruitment of kids should reflect what we want from players within our Vision. At present we discard many more than we keep & a KT or McGeady are the exception when they should be the rule. Most of our kids who make it to a pro contract with us end up going out on loan then drifting off to other Scottish clubs. Mean while Celtic are shopping around for players that are the products of other clubs youth system who invariably turn out to be no better than those that we had & let go. An exotic name & a pushy agent seems to count for more than a real assessment of football ability and/or potential. Very occasionally our punt on an unknown player turns a big profit for the club, but that should be incidental to our main football Vision & not as an earner to offset against the money lost by being humped out of the Champions League qualies.



    We’re just not professionally run – by the standards of those with whom we want to compete in Europe – even the less fashionable countries have clubs that are more professional than Celtic.



    Defining what I mean by professional would take even longer than defining Vision.


    It’s easier to say what it isn’t.



    It’s NOT doing what Celtic have done for the last 50 years.


    It’s having a united, committed board who are completely dedicated to the Vision of making Celtic the best it can be on a football field.


    A board that is not so interested in patting itself on the back at an AGM so much as ensuring that every penny that the cub earns becomes part of the funds to realize the agreed football Vision.


    A football department that has a unified & achievable policy that is implemented by qualified trained staff under the guidance of a manager/head coach & staff who follow that Vision.


    A youth set up that actually follows through & coaches kids that have been selected after a thorough process & not just because “if we don’t take them they’ll go somewhere else”.


    The wastage in the youth section is scandalous but boys & parents just accept it because it’s “Celtic”.


    The turnover in boys is dismissed as Celtic having high standards & boys just not measuring up.


    The plain truth is boys & parents throw themselves at Celtic in their hundreds for the chance to get even a trial. Faced with such overwhelming numbers boys are signed with no idea what the Vision is & what part any boy might play within in.


    With an eye on the balance sheet I suspect that some kids are even signed for their potential sell on value or to deprive competitors rather than for their potential role in a n on existent footballing vision.


    There are dozens of other qualities & aspects of a real, meaningful football vision.


    It’s largely though NOT doing what Celtic do & have been doing for years.


    For me, that is why we are where we are today. Neil’s in the chair so he becomes the focus for frustrated fans output, but he’s only like a goalkeeper playing behind a sloppy & out of shape defence that don’t talk to one another. He carries the can when things go wrong – unfairly.



    Change is needed but not just pulling back the curtain to reveal the latest face that says he “hopes to bring success to the club”.


    That change has to be after a root & branch review of why we keep staying on a roundabout & being surprised when we only return back to the same place we’ve been many times before.


    Change must include every department in the club – not just football: if the infrastructure is still creaking along under the old “we don’t change” system then any football department revolution will fail – guaranteed.



    We have a chance to actually get back to the top table but not as we are currently set up.


    If wee teams from Hungary, Denmark, Portugal & Switzerland can have a seat then why can’t we.


    Our club’s & fans’ hubris coupled with a casual acceptance by many of our apparent limitations only encourages apathy.



    We need to stop the rot of apathy, stop repeating the same mistakes on a 3 year cycle & establish what we honestly want our future to look like.


    Sacking Neil Lennon wouldn’t achieve any of that



    Too long I know but I’m guessing you’ll be in bed now so this is just for myself.


    I’m knackered so G’Night noo.

  14. What makes anyone think der hun cannot rise like a phoenix? If Celtic don’t keep our feet on their neo Nazi throats who will? BBC Radio “Old Firm” Scotland ……Radio “Old Firm” Clyde?

  15. Melbourne Mick on

    Hello again all you young rebels.



    Notice the big knobs in the EPL looking to start a exclusive European


    league with the backing of FIFA.


    What would that mean for our club, would we get a welcome? doubt it.


    Will it open up a route for big Dermot to take us into the top tier of the


    English Premier? would we even want that?


    So many questions, but that’s for another day.


    Has Lenny had clear the air talks with our squad? ffs another question.


    Hope he’s laid down the law and got rattled into a few of the big heads.


    Lets get two up front for a start against Milan, get Turnbull into the


    midfield, I’d like big Christopher beside Shane, Elhamed and Laxalt.


    If we get a decent result, keep the same team for the next few games


    and let them settle, but most importantly get that ball back to front a


    lot quicker than of late.


    And please stop the vitriol on here, the huns are desperate for any signs


    of disunity amongst our support, by all means disagree with anything


    you don’t like, but just like a couple of new bloggers managed last night


    tell us who you would like as a coach and why, and is he available? in a


    constructive manner, rather than repetitively blabbering ” Kennedy is


    just a coneman ”


    Anyway I’m backing Lenny to pull it together, and it’s not just blind faith


    our manager has previous at defying the odds.


    H.H. Mick

  16. Neil Lennon & McCartney on

    I admit to cognitive dissonance over Neil Francis Lennon, as I’m sure many here do too, and they have expressed their opinions accordingly. Fair enough, it’s a blog right?



    But Neil does not look well, and looks like he needs help, all of which which must be affecting the players.


    I would suggest complete rest for Lenny, appoint Broonie as interim manager and get this league won!



    Just saying likesay, ken?

  17. Been reading back. Is it still mathematically possible for us to win the league this year. Asking for a friend.

  18. Good morning all from a dark, mild but dry Garngad



    Some good posts again on reading back.



    A few big games coming up for us, personally I’m not bothered about EL but if we get beat or worse pumped then the pressure going into Sunday will be more intense than it is just now before the Milan game.



    I just want to see a bit of heart and fight, as well as moving the ball forward faster, right team, right formation 😁 that’s all.


    As MM says if we win keep the same feckin team and let them get to know each other/system, it’s no rocket science.



    I sincerely hope Neil gets the results/ performances we need but patience is wearing very thin.






    D :)

  19. Melbourne Mick on

    Morning David 66, and Tauranga Bhoy looks like you’ll be able


    to get across the big ditch to Melbourne soon.


    Only 3 cases now and more restrictions being lifted this weekend.


    It’s been tough but worthwhile…so far.


    H.H. Mick

  20. Yep looking forward to the day that we can all move freely again. I really need to get home. Hope yer well mate. I am glad that we have Lenny going for the ten. Keep the faith. Hail Hail.

  21. MM – Good morning.



    Well done Melbourne.



    In Glasgiw the cases are rising faster than 1 of Mrs david66 lemon drizzle cakes.



    I can sense the natives getting restless with restriction after restriction, whilst Governments stumble from one feck up to another.


    Oh and dont start me on still letting people fly in and out of the UK, bringingvand taking infection out…



    Hail Hail



    D :)

  22. My suggestion is ask WGS to come as an interim assistant mngr/first team coach. Take on responsibility of all training and coaching.



    If that is unacceptable to Neil, replace him with Eddie Howe if he is interested. Good manager, good tactician, likes attacking football, has a recognizable system and, at 42, still relatively young. So three years with us leaves him time for another crack at EPL.


    Like BR before him, has experienced the good times and bad times in EPL. Has seen his star rise and fall.


    Should be affordable, in a BR way, and is available.


    And, by the way, he is a training ground fanatic. First there, last to leave.

  23. In reality…….


    …..in real time, under normal normal circumstances………


    in terms of management ( football management) ………….


    …but ANY management.


    In scoddland,…….do we actually think that Celtic Football Club, could in full view……bring in someone over a very prominent managerial figurehead,…….. over Neil’s head with the scoddish meeja hoverin’, waitin’ gloatin’………and then attempt to sell the strategy to us…as one that looks after Neil, The Team and the support?




  24. Making sense of our current predicament will not be found in some navel-gazing exercise about Brendan Rodgers versus Graeme Murty or Pedro. Or even lessons from the great Jock Stein.



    A huge, manufactured rabbit-hole of an exercise. IMHO….



    I guess, for some here, the answer lies in the need for nostalgia, even if that lies in the memory banks of a pre-COVID19 3-5-2 Griff and Eddie run of wins….



    In nostalgia we trust.




  25. HT


    Very good to see you back last night…..but I would recommend you stay off the absinthe !


    Off to the golf.


    Cheerio for now.



    PS I hope by this time tomorrow I have become interested in our game against Milan !!