Exactly one year ago today, just after lunchtime, one of the pivotal moments in Celtic history occurred. Neil Lennon took his Celtic team to Kilmarnock, who had lost their three previous league games, and for 73 minutes looked like surrendering their league title chances just as Tony Mowbray’s team collapsed at St Mirren Park seven months earlier.
The manager later admitted to thoughts of resignation. 3-0 down at half time while already in heavy deficit to Rangers, who were riding a wave of positivity under the reinvigorating ownership of Craig Whyte, events looked to have escaped Neil’s grasp.
It is tempting to write the narrative that a half time talk or tactical change turned things around but turnaround was more difficult to explain. Celtic were awful for the opening 28 minutes of the second half; like condemned men waiting for the inevitable.
Anthony Stokes started the recovery by exploiting Kilmarnock’s weaknesses. A free kick drifted over a wall which didn’t jump and into the net. Had the wall jumped, would history have been different? Three minutes later Stokes fired into the corner of the net from distance, Jaakkola in the Killie goal was not equal to the challenge. Suddenly, we were back in the game, back in the title race.
Charlie Mulgrew, who erred to gift Kilmarnock their third, equalised with 11 minutes remaining, surely there was only one winner now? Not so, images of Heffernan’s last minute header from inside the Celtic six yard box gliding over remain vivid.
We escaped with a draw but it felt like a stay of execution, not a pivotal moment. Neil didn’t resign, he stayed, beat Stade Rennes in the Europa League and never looked back. The imperious positivity which surrounded Craig Whyte was ultimately proven to be a charade, those of us who told you Rangers were in peril were proven correct.
It is impossible to calculate just how much football has changed since Anthony hit that free kick, although imperious positivity still surrounds a charade which is doomed to fail, leaving a lot of football fans out of pocket. If only the football authorities had a warning from recent history that light-touch regulation is dangerous, or had the mechanism to order a financial audit. They do, of course, but despite the traumas of 2012 I doubt they have the appetite to head-off potential problems. It’s easier (in the short term) to hope everything will turn out well.
Not that you need worry about any of this, you can chill and enjoy the season.
Click here to read the fabulous CQN Magazine for free, or strain your eyes squinting below. You can also buy a hard copy of the magazine here from Magcloud.
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The Scotsman
The Shame Game
Published on Saturday 13 September 2008
THE matchday subway train to Ibrox is packed so tightly that sweat is dripping from beneath light blue hats and “Simply the Best” scarves.
As the doors squeeze closed at the second attempt the carriage is rocked by stamping feet and deafening choruses of songs that relate more to 17th century Irish history than the looming football match with Kilmarnock. “We’re up to our knees in Fenian blood, surrender or you’ll die,” they roar. “F*** the Pope and the Vatican.”
Testosterone, hate and beer hang with the sweat in the air. A clearly mortified middle-aged woman clutches her handbag and stares at her feet. A couple of French tourists look like they might burst into tears at any second. But otherwise, virtually the entire carriage – a sea of red, white, blue and orange – join in the sectarian singalong.
Meanwhile, over in Motherwell, where the local team are playing hosts to Celtic, some fans walking to the game in green and white were singing their new favourite song, aimed at Rangers’s star striker: “I hope you die in your sleep, Nacho Novo,/I hope you die in your sleep, I pray,/I hope you die in your sleep Nacho Novo,/With a bullet from the IRA.” Young boys laugh along with their fathers as they sing the words, to the tune of a popular hymn. The new ditty accompanies some old favourites, some simply celebrating Celtic’s Irish heritage, but others, such as ‘The Boys Of The Old Brigade’, in praise of the IRA.
Finding evidence that sectarianism is alive and well, in all its hate and bile, on the streets of Scotland today is never going to be difficult. What is harder to find is evidence of what our politicians intend to do about it. The vehemence of Jack McConnell’s attack on Alex Salmond over sectarianism is certainly unprecedented. Convention states – both at Holyrood and Westminster – that former heads of office take something of a back seat, emerging only now and then to offer some sage advice. They do not, generally, describe their successors as “political cowards”, nor postulate that they are allowing bigots to “get away with” sectarian crimes. However, the former First Minister is in the process of adopting a different approach to his position. More than a year since he was in power, and with the matter of Scottish Labour’s leadership now sorted, McConnell has told friends that he intends to be a little more outspoken on a few select issues. Sectarianism is one – and how.
Wind back to 2002 and the anti-sectarian drive led by McConnell was one of the key initiatives he and his advisers hoped would cement his reputation. The MSP for Motherwell and Wishaw had seen sectarian abuse at first hand in his constituency, where abuse was daubed on his own front door. The anti-sectarian drive was very much McConnell’s own personal crusade. He brought forward banning orders for fans caught singing sectarian songs at football games. Cash was poured into schools where pupils were taught to respect religious differences. New legislation meant that crimes would carry heavier sentences if they were ‘aggravated’ by sectarianism. And greater restrictions were placed on marches, allowing communities to block them if they felt that they were causing offence.
As the centrepiece of his campaign, McConnell held two ‘sectarian summits’ where, perhaps slightly embarrassed, Cardinal Keith O’Brien and Iain Wilson, the grandmaster of the Orange Lodge, were pictured together, as if bridging Scotland’s very own peace line.
The initiative undoubtedly highlighted the presence of sectarianism in Scotland like never before. A survey of religiously aggravated offences between January 2004 and June 2005 found that the 532 incidents were found right across the country – and not just in the west. Claims that this was just a football issue were also confounded: only one in three cases related to matches. Cardinal O’Brien declared that sectarianism should, in fact, be described bluntly as anti-Catholicism – Catholics, it emerged, were five times more likely to be victims of a religious aggravated crime than Protestants.
It is Salmond’s decision not to commission a third summit later this year – as planned by the previous administration – that has stirred McConnell to outright fury. McConnell believed that the Scottish Government should be commissioning more research on these offences (updated figures on sectarian crime do not exist) to get to the bottom of the issue. He also believed more pressure should be placed on football clubs to crack down even further on their errant fans. Two weeks ago, Celtic coach Neil Lennon was knocked unconscious outside a bar in Glasgow, his attacker heard describing him as a “Fenian bastard”. In an apparently retaliatory measure, the address of Rangers star Nacho Novo was then placed on a Celtic fans’ internet message board. McConnell raised the attack in parliament, arguing that his successor had been “weak” on the matter. It was just an opening salvo. His comments to the Scottish Catholic Observer this weekend are truly incendiary – effectively laying any increase in sectarian attacks in the future at Salmond’s door.
Salmond’s aides have responded furiously this weekend, saying McConnell’s comments are “unbecoming of a former First Minister”. A source close to the First Minister said: “We are tackling the problem within the Scottish Government’s ‘One Scotland’ campaign, which prioritises real effort and hard work on the ground… there is general recognition that endless summits are not the answer.”
They also point out that Salmond – unlike McConnell – has urged Brown to sweep away the institutionalised sectarianism contained in the Act of Settlement, which bars Catholics from the throne. One thing is clear: not only does there continue to be a divide separating Scotland’s two Christian traditions – as represented in its crudest form on the terraces of Glasgow’s two football clubs every Saturday – there is now a clear division in opinion over exactly how to tackle it.
For example, while McConnell may have chosen a Catholic newspaper this weekend to launch his attack, the Catholic Church’s bishops are now firmly on Salmond’s side of the argument. For them, the problem with McConnell’s approach was that the focus on sectarianism allowed people to raise that most sensitive of issues for the Scottish Catholic Church – the status of Catholic schools. Nothing angers the church’s bishops more than the claim that Catholic schools breed sectarianism, and McConnell’s focus on religious bigotry opened the matter up for debate. A spokesman for Archbishop Mario Conti said: “The summits were useful for putting the issue on the agenda, but probably had limited impact on the ground and instead had the unfortunate byproduct of reopening the debate over Catholic schools when, in fact, Catholic schools are not the problem.”
Even Catholic composer James MacMillan – the man whose electrifying lecture nine years ago on “Scotland’s shame” brought the shadow of sectarianism into the open – adds: “Perhaps the initial summit organised by Labour was important at signalling intent, but many thought that subsequent events were too similar in covering the same ground with no new imagination or initiative. To some participants it was beginning to feel like a PR exercise for the Executive.”
The bigger picture for MacMillan is the question of the schools. Earlier this year, Salmond offered cast-iron and enthusiastic support for Catholic education. “The marvellous and unambiguous support he has voiced for Catholic schools is a powerful sign that he is not prepared to play the smoke and mirrors games that Labour indulged in on this matter. It was always a pity that McConnell was never able to control the deep prejudices against faith schools that raged continuously in Labour ranks during his years in power.”
Others take the view that McConnell’s strategy was perhaps too narrowly focused. A spokesperson for Rangers Football Club said: “We do believe sectarianism is part of the broader issue of anti-social behaviour that is of real concern throughout society and goes way beyond football.”
It is to be expected that vested interests – whether religious, cultural or footballing – might find the scrutiny of the sectarian summits uncomfortable. What about the greater good? The question remains: has the former First Minister’s insistence that the matter be exposed to public scrutiny been ditched simply because some vested interests involved found it all too hot to handle?
Certainly, McConnell’s allies now believe that it was pressure from an increasingly uncomfortable Catholic Church which led to Salmond’s decision to ditch the strategy. Salmond has been assiduously cultivating Scotland’s Catholics for years, they point out; little wonder now that he is giving in to their wishes. SNP insiders say that this motive is happily married to the Nationalists’ instinctive distaste for highlighting a specifically ‘Scottish’ disease. One SNP source said: “Basically, Salmond doesn’t like to talk about Scotland’s shame. It doesn’t go with the big theme. Plus of course, this was one of the previous Executive’s big things and Alex didn’t want to run with it.”
The Kirk is also ready to get round the table again. “Just because it is an old issue, it doesn’t make it a dead issue,” said Ian Galloway, the minister who heads the Kirk’s Church and Society Committee. “People are being hurt just because of their faith loyalties. People have been killed. There is no way that is acceptable.”
The nuanced view, meanwhile, comes from Professor Tom Devine, who advised the old Scottish Executive on its anti-sectarianism strategy. The summits themselves may no longer be necessary, but, he argues, a specific strategy undoubtedly is. For Devine, it is time to call the problem for what it is. “We should be calling this for what it is: it isn’t sectarianism, it is anti-Catholicism.” He adds: “I totally agree with McConnell that this is a specific problem that requires a specific response. There was a recognition in the old Scottish Executive that this was going to be a hard slog which was going to require a lot of behind the scenes work.”
Devine says a three-pronged approach is required. More education, a continuing attack on the anti-Catholic culture which he argues still thrives in families and communities across the country, and a high-profile, zero-tolerance approach to incidents when they spill into the public arena.
Devine highlights the recent abuse of Celtic goalkeeper Artur Boruc, who Rangers fans dislike for his habit of crossing himself. “He was subjected to an unremitting cascade of abuse during a game, and yet what action was taken? In these high profile events, firm action must be taken.” Devine also says that the Scottish Government should be commissioning research into why there continue to be pockets of anti-Catholicism in broadly secular communities.
The SNP Government insists that quiet work behind the scenes is continuing. The question is whether a softly-softly approach does a better job in Scotland at large than the expose-it-to-the-lights approach favoured by McConnell.
Back at Ibrox, one vendor close by the stadium is doing a roaring trade in T-shirts. One delighted customer, a lad of 11 or 12, pulls the garment over his Rangers strip and wheels round in delight to show it off to his pals. The shirt features a picture of an inanely grinning anthropomorphic potato alongside the legend: “The famine is over so why don’t you go home?”
He is challenged as to whether he thinks the shirt is sectarian or offensive. “Naw,” he replies. “It’s about getting a rise out of those Fenian bastards.”
Monday 20 July 2009
SNP candidate defends his Opus Dei membership
BRIAN CURRIE The Herald
The SNP candidate in the Glasgow North East by-election hit back yesterday at Labour and Tory MSPs for making his religious views an issue during the campaign.
The SNP candidate in the Glasgow North East by-election hit back yesterday at Labour and Tory MSPs for making his religious views an issue during the campaign.
Mr Kerr spoke out after Labour justice spokesman Richard Baker and the Scottish Tories’ deputy leader Murdo Fraser both raised questions about his membership of the controversial Catholic group Opus Dei.
Mr Fraser said it raised questions about whether it was appropriate to have a candidate who was a member of a secretive” and hardline” organisation.
Mr Baker said it would be a cause for people to have questions” about his views.
Mr Kerr, who has made no secret about his membership of the organisation, said: Modern Scotland and Scottish political parties encompass people of all faiths and none. My faith is a personal matter, and religion has no part to play in this or any other campaign.
The Labour candidate Willie Bain agrees with that, yet Labour’s justice spokesperson has sought to make it an issue in the by-election – as indeed has the Tory deputy leader.
These Labour and Tory spokespeople have a lot of explaining to do about what they are actually saying.” Mr Kerr contrasted the remarks with comments by Mr Bain, who also said religion should play no part in the election campaign.
Mr Bain said: I want to bring people together, not divide them up. My faith is important to me, but it does not matter what religion or religious organisation a candidate is in.
I pledge never to make religion an issue in this campaign and hope nobody else does either.” A Tory spokesman said Mr Fraser was not questioning whether, as a member of Opus Dei, Mr Kerr had a right to be a candidate but that his views on certain issues should be known to the electorate.
Mr Kerr also had to defend himself for insulting Glasgow Caledonian University in a speech he made two years ago at St Andrews University during which he also impersonated John Knox.
Mr Kerr, a graduate of St Andrews, said Glasgow Caledonian University didn’t have a reputation to tarnish”.
He claimed yesterday they were obviously light-hearted remarks made affectionately and received in jest”. He said the university was doing a fantastic job” and accused Labour of pathetic name-calling”.
However, Mr Bain, a law lecturer, said he couldn’t believe” Mr Kerr’s jibes.
He said: I want to stand up for people in this part of Glasgow, not talk people down or laugh at them.
Part of my job at the moment is helping people from ordinary backgrounds like mine, where there isn’t a great tradition of university, to break through this type of snobbish attitude.”
The University and College Union also condemned Mr Kerr’s comments. Vince Mills, president of UCU at Glasgow Caledonian, said: Such elitism is not only quaint but positively dangerous.
Rather than denigrating the contribution of some universities he should be fighting for the resources they need to flourish.” Meanwhile, Home Secretary Alan Johnson let slip that he believes the General Election is now eight months away – suggesting that he expects an April campaign ahead of polling day on May 6, 2010.
MWD
I have a feeling the Independence debate would have been usurped by the “Anyone supporting Scotland tonight?” debate had you not brought it up again 0:-).
JJ
PS I am about as interested in tonight`s game as I was in yesteday`s “debate” (ernie lynch comments aside. )
Snake Plissken
23:28 on 15 October, 2012
‘In no way do I defend Dewar Gibb – filth like him have no place in politics but the SNP has evolved since 1934 but the man wasn’t even a real Scot.’
So you seek to distance yourself from the racist anti Irish Catholic nationalism of one of the founders of the SNP (and its leading intellectual) by saying he ‘wasn’t even a real Scot’.
And you object to me referring to nationalists as idiots?
kitalba
09:22 on 16 October, 2012
Salmond still hasn’t had a Catholic in his cabinet yet, has he?
the exiled tim
19:30 on
15 October, 2012
While scotland are losing to Belgium tomorrow night, I will be watching the best team on the planet.
Free vino during the game, 2 hours of sheer bliss :>)
—-
Got my tickets yesterday for the game and off to estradio caulderon tonight with the family. Can’t wait. Hail! Hail!
Times Higher Education:
Spot the Catholic
10 September 1999
Tom Devine
Scotland has just one Catholic v-c. Is this because the country is dominated by Protestant bigots? Tom Devine calls for more research into Scotland’s shame
When Scotland’s foremost young composer, James MacMillan, gave a lecture at the Edinburgh International Festival recently he did not mince his words. Scotland, he said, was a land of “sleep-walking bigotry” where “visceral anti-Catholicism” disfigures national life, from the professions to the media, from politics to academe.
The latest threat, he warned, was to Catholic schools – which risk destruction in the wake of devolution and the setting-up of the Scottish Parliament. Every year Scotland’s leading teaching union, the Educational Institute of Scotland, hears speeches at its annual conference calling for an end to separate Catholic schools and the withdrawal of their state funding. “The slavering of the mouth,” MacMillan said, “at the prospect of the new parliament being involved in this vandalism has become a frightening spectacle for many of us.”
Pandora’s box, it turned out, had been opened in spectacular fashion. For weeks Scotland’s broadsheets were crammed with letters. MacMillan had touched a nerve. The Herald, the newspaper of choice among the west of Scotland business and professional classes, was in the eye of the storm – forced to print extra pages to display readers letters. The Herald, claimed MacMillan, had a number of feature writers who “regularly and vociferously attack Catholic belief and practice I in ways that would never see the light of day in a London quality newspaper”.
Like MacMillan, I come from a west of Scotland Catholic background with roots in the Irish immigrations of the 19th century. I agree that for too long sectarianism has simply been swept under the carpet or treated as a subject that polite people do not discuss.
Among my own family in a Lanarkshire town in the 1950s it was accepted that discriminatory employment practices against Catholics were endemic in the local steel industry, the police, banking and even some high-street shops. And until the 1960s in some of the Clyde shipyards, the power of the foremen with Orange and Masonic loyalties to hire and fire often made it difficult for Catholics to start apprenticeships.
Scotland’s greatest football team of the period, Glasgow Rangers, would not hire players if they were Catholic – or even married to a Catholic. As late as 1981, the distinguished journalist Arnold Kemp, interviewed for the post of editor of the Glasgow Herald, was quizzed on his religious beliefs. It was understood he would not have been appointed if he had admitted to being a Catholic.
But all that was a long time ago. Where I part company with MacMillan is in his assumption that such bigotry continues even today, and, crucially, that it still influences the labour market in terms of employment and promotion, obstructing life opportunities for Scottish Catholics.
This is not to say that anti-Catholic attitudes do not exist in some areas of Scotland, particularly in west central Scottish society. But while anti-Catholic employers may still harbour their prejudices, they keep a low profile. No evidence is available of the systematic discrimination that prevailed in so many sectors of the west of Scotland’s economy until only a few decades ago.
A silent revolution has occurred. Scottish Catholics no longer appear to be a disadvantaged group. The Scottish election surveys of 1992 and 1997 show no significant difference between the social class of Catholics and others, a remarkable transformation compared with 50 years ago. In one of the few academic studies of the contemporary situation, Iain Paterson at Aberdeen University has shown that in 1998 there was little difference in social class between 23-year-old Catholics and non-Catholics in west Scotland.
Catholics now have a marked impact on Scottish politics, not simply in the local councils of the towns around Glasgow (in that city the past nine Lord Provosts have been Catholic) but also at national level. In the 1997 general election, 31 per cent of candidates elected to Scottish seats were Catholic, although Catholics made up about only 13 per cent of the Scottish electorate. Catholics are prominent in the upper echelons of business, the media, the quangos, the law and academia (although it is noticeable that there is only one Catholic vice-chancellor of a Scottish university – Bernard King at Abertay).
And Scottish Catholics have achieved a new rapprochement with nationalism and devolution. Surveys in the 1960s and 1970s showed them to be deeply suspicious of the idea of Scottish independence and even of less radical constitutional change. There was a perception that a self-governing Scotland would increase Protestant hegemony. That insecurity seems to have declined.
Indeed, the most recent evidence suggests that Scots from a Catholic background are marginally more likely to favour independence than Protestants and that Catholics identify as strongly with “Scottishness” as non-Catholics. This transformation in their political attitudes would not have been possible if they routinely experienced religious discrimination in the workplaces and professional offices of Scotland.
I believe that we are seeing a historic integration of the descendants of the Irish-Catholic immigrants of earlier times into the mainstream of Scottish society.
But how has this come to pass? A number of influences have contributed. Deindustrialisation in the 1980s destroyed the ethos of discrimination in shipbuilding, engineering and steel manufacture. The new foreign-owned firms that moved into “Silicon Glen” were totally dismissive of old Scottish prejudices, while the mushrooming growth of the public sector created new job avenues for university-educated Catholics.
The welfare state and the growth of education were indeed the saviours of the Catholic population. The former raised living standards for everyone, irrespective of their ethnic or religious background. The latter extended the ladder of opportunity for Catholics from manual labour into the professions. By the mid-1970s, Catholic schools were closing the gap on their non-denominational counterparts; by the 1990s they were outperforming them by sending proportionately more working-class pupils to university.
The social context of discrimination has also changed radically. In the 1950s only a tiny minority of Catholics married outside their community. Today the ratio is running at more than 50 per cent. Such levels of inter-marriage are both a cause and a consequence of sectarianism’s decline.
To conclude that animosity against Catholics in Scotland is extinct would be wrong. It still endures in the confrontations between Rangers and Celtic (despite the fact that “Protestant” Rangers now fields more Catholic players than does “Catholic” Celtic); in the annual parades of the Orange Order; in the tiny fringe groups of supporters in Scotland for the IRA and the Ulster Defence Association; and the sniping from some quarters about Catholic schools. Nevertheless, over the past 30 years there has been an enormous improvement.
In the 1980s, even the worst economic crisis since the 1930s failed to intensify religious tensions; the historic visit of the Pope to Scotland in 1981 was regarded as an ecumenical triumph, attracting negligible protest; and the Ulster conflict has never boiled over into Scotland despite the close historical links with that part of Ireland. All this suggests that Scotland is in the process of rapidly leaving its old communal hatreds behind.
For Scottish Catholicism after 2000 the threats come not from residual bigotry but from the relentless decline in church attendance, the crisis in vocations and the influence of a materialistic, secular culture.
But perhaps more academic research on the situation of Catholics in Scotland would help determine who is right in this heated debate.
ernie lynch:
I don’t know.
So. Who’s supporting Scotland tonight?
Auldheid
The Civil Service pension issue worries me too. Mine is paid from down south. Will it continue as before, will it still be index-linked? Worrying times ahead I feel. I may have to move!
The initiative for the Great Famine monument in Glasgow came from SNP councillor Feargal Dalton. But there are people on CQN who will tell you that everyone in the SNP is an Irish and Catholic-hating fascist. They are prisoners of their own prejudice.
Morning,
I see that the two thugs who stamped the Irish guy to death were found guilty. Also, note the racially motivated part was dropped. Well, we cant have any unwelcome statistics when we are going for Independence and trying to get the nod from the EU.
I think that the unwelcome statistic was one of murder.
Let’s hope that, like before, the community of Pollokshields successfully resists the likely incursion of racists on the back of someone’s murder.
One nation, many cultures.
MWD
O:-)
Just to put my reply into context –
ASonOfDan
08:22 on
16 October, 2012
Morning,
I see that the two thugs who stamped the Irish guy to death were found guilty. Also, note the racially motivated part was dropped. Well, we cant have any unwelcome statistics when we are going for Independence and trying to get the nod from the EU.
I think that the unwelcome statistic was one of murder.
Let’s hope that, like before, the community of Pollokshields successfully resists the likely incursion of racists on the back of someone’s murder.
One nation, many cultures.
Headtheball
It goes beyond the Civil Service remember , teachers, police, firemen NHS etc and clarification will be required. If your MP is for a united kingdom write to him.
TBB
You are a gentleman,thanks for that and I dont think some of the finer points will be recognised by who’s getting it,I just need to show him the general gist of his clubs cheating and also,I just want to take this wee opportunity to say to you I never meant to be quite so scathing when you mentioned about somebody you met who was explaining to you a difficulty him and his highly educated wife was having in finding work where they lived,my argument being that perhaps they shouldnt expect to have everything when there have been many people had to leave Scotland and live in exile due to economic reasons,I was wrong for the tone I took in reply to your well meaning post so I hope we can shake on that.
Thanks for the reply.
Serious ? bhoys but why is all this stuff coming out now about Jimmy Saville
Celtic Ladies team have been kicked out of the Scottish Cup as they couldn’t play the tie due to having so many players on international duty.
Yes, you read that correctly.
How many bodies do we need to oversee organised football in a country of 5 million?
The only reason i ask about Saville is because Ministers, BB leaders and the OO have all done the same yet it gets covered up.
Moonbeams WD. Kano 1000 \o/ Supporting Neil Lennon 100%. Champions. C’mon Wee Oscar. 07:24:
Could not have put it better myself…already in semi-lurker mode.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
79caps
09:32 on 16 October, 2012
‘The initiative for the Great Famine monument in Glasgow came from SNP councillor Feargal Dalton. But there are people on CQN who will tell you that everyone in the SNP is an Irish and Catholic-hating fascist. They are prisoners of their own prejudice.’
No one has said that ‘everyone in the SNP is an Irish and Catholic-hating fascist.’
You’re either a liar or you’re unable to comprehend basic English.
What I and others have said is that the SNP was founded on the back of opposition to immigration of Irish Catholics to Scotland. The statements of some of the founder members of the SNP on the subject read like something from Nazi Germany.
You probably know nothing about the history of the SNP. Or maybe you do and you’re lying.
Anti Irish Catholic (not anti Catholic, not anti Irish but anti Irish Catholic) prejudice was the main driver for the foundation of the SNP. It’s part of the party’s heritage. They have never admitted, renounced or apologised for it. They prefer not to talk about it.
As for this memorial, it’s not about the Irish famine or its consequences, is it? It’s a joint memorial. Scots and Irish. A cynical piece of political posturing aimed at winning over the more gullible and less informed.
Tell me something. How many Highlanders died as a result to the potato famine in Scotland? How many Irish died as a result of the potato famine in Ireland?
Why a joint memorial?
Everyone looking forward to the Scotland game tonight? Could be the end of the current manager’s tenure.
At least Brown and Forrest won’t be involved.
hen1rik
09:39 on 16 October, 2012
‘Serious ? bhoys but why is all this stuff coming out now about Jimmy Saville’
1. Because he’s dead.
2. Because he was famous.
3. Because there were persistent rumours about him for decades.
4. Because attitudes to this sort of stuff have changed over time. People are more likely to talk about it, because they are less likely to be dismissed as fantasists.
Buddy Morrisey
09:35 on
16 October, 2012
Just to put my reply into context –
ASonOfDan
08:22 on
16 October, 2012
Morning,
I see that the two thugs who stamped the Irish guy to death were found guilty. Also, note the racially motivated part was dropped. Well, we cant have any unwelcome statistics when we are going for Independence and trying to get the nod from the EU.
I think that the unwelcome statistic was one of murder.
Let’s hope that, like before, the community of Pollokshields successfully resists the likely incursion of racists on the back of someone’s murder.
One nation, many cultures.
———————————————————–
Don’t forget that the murderers were Asian and the victim Caucasian.
Anyone concerned about Scott Brown’s degenerative hip condition?
Any ideas what this means for his future football career or future health?
gordon j
It will be another chance to watch Levein rue the day he was used by the cabal of blazered hun protectionists.
henr1k – these predators instill fear in their victims. When you mix that into a very young mind and the predator is somebody so revered these people will have thought nobody would ever believe them. The victims of these horrific crimes invariably feel a deep sense of shame, like somehow they were at fault, this persists even into adulthood and compounds the fear.
It is usually the case it takes one person to stand up and the dams burst.
It is also why you quite often see people convicted of these crimes decades after they took place, it takes that long for the poor victims to realise they can step forward.
ernie lynch
09:55 on 16 October, 2012
Hopefully more will be exposed then Ernie.
rogueleader
09:58 on 16 October, 2012
Ok matey thanks.
I wasn’t sure if it was a good subject to start a debate on but these sick morons need to be exposed no matter who they are.
Gordon J:
Yeh I agree. Glad they wont be, they have a team of catalan superstars to prepare for.
As much as I always want Scotland to win I think we are going to get roundly humped.
Wales have 1 world class player and several excellent professionals. Belgium have several world class players are the merely excellent professionals sit on the bench.
Lukaku, Witsel, Defour, Hazard, Mirales, Dembele. They will barely notice Fellaini not being there
Buddy Morrisey
09:56 on 16 October, 2012
‘Anyone concerned about Scott Brown’s degenerative hip condition?’
Yes.
‘Any ideas what this means for his future football career or future health?’
No idea, but I can’t see it being a good thing. Cascarino’s book is a bit of an eye opener regarding what players endure to continue playing. I think Gordon Strachan has had both hips replaced already.
L&McM
You’re welcome. As for the other matter, I am blessed with an remarkably poor memory.
TBB
Son of Gabriel,
Indeed, Belgium have a more than decent team. But knowing Scotland’s ability to lose when expected to win and vice versa you never know.
Scott Brown’s injury really concerns me. There’s no way he should have played even part of the game last week.
Gordon_J
Levein needs 3 points in Brussels tonight to retain any hope he has of keeping his job. I see they are coming out with the ‘Spirit of Paris 2007’ quotes to raise hope amongst the squad
The difference between then and now is that particular French squad were on a downward spiral (hence their horror show at Euro 2008), while this young and talented Belgian squad are on the up
I predict a comfortable 3-0 win for the Belgians
ernie lynch
10:02
Cascarinos book??? Details please.
I cant be the only person who thinks Browns been playing his best football for us recently but I do very much worry about his health with this hip and I cannot fathom taking those damn injections to play. Long term health is more important, especially when their careers only last 20 years if they are lucky.
The timing of Levein’s appointment was bizarre to say the least.
Dundee United were challenging for second place in the league,and were due to play the Zombie a week after he accepted the Scotland post.
If my memory serves me correctly – The Zombie put seven goals past a United side that were without a manager,at Zombieland.
Scotland didn’t have any international fixtures on the horizon.
Strange to say the least.
Gordon_J
re. Brown – a case of nowhere near as good as his proponents make him out to be, and nowhere near as bad as detractors claim. When it comes to European away games, however, his record isn’t that great, and I don’t think he’ll be that big a miss for us.
Interestingly, Lennon played him in the Commons role v Spartak Moscow. It didn’t really work. Brown played well, but couldn’t contribute in the way he’d been doing at CM. I wonder if Lenny had his performance as a late sub v Dinamo Moscow (Mowbray’s moment of triumph) in mind, where he was instrumental in Celtic’s dominance of the latter stages. He was behind Sammi that day, though, and both of them harried and stretched the Dinamo defence.
As for Forrest, his overall record away in Europe is mediocre at best, and I can’t see a player like him posing any threat to Barcelona. No great loss for that game.
There’s only one game I’ll have on injury watch tonight, and it’s the one in Bratislava.
Son of Gabriel
10:10 on 16 October, 2012
‘Cascarinos book??? Details please.’
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Full-Time-Secret-Life-Cascarino/dp/1903650542