Scottish Premier League chief executive, Neil Doncaster, yesterday told the BBC that no provision existed for a liquidated SPL club to reconvene as a Newco FC at the bottom of the Scottish Football League (reported at 1821 on their crisis timeline).
This is being grossly misreported to suggest that the only opportunity for a Rangers Newco to phoenix is to slip straight back into the SPL – completely and utterly untrue.
There is also no provision for a Newco FC to slip into the SPL. Newco FC would be able to apply for membership to the Scottish Football League (where they would unquestionably be accepted) or the Scottish Premier League.
The default position when a club goes out of business in the Scottish Premier League is that the club that finishes bottom of the league at the end of the season escapes relegation. As things stand, Dunfermline would remain an SPL club and Ross County would be promoted.
No moral, legal or football administrative argument has been made to suggest that Dunfermline will be relegated to allow a new club entry into the league. None whatsoever. Dunfermline Athletic will remain a SPL club if Rangers are liquidated.
The various parties seeking to phoenix Rangers would get the lawyers onto securing a stadium, scouting some part-timers, buying a ticketing system, applying for entry into the Scottish Football League and finding cash to employ stadium stewarding. This could take weeks but is more likely to take months or even years.
Football needs to get used to this idea.
Neil Doncaster did not suggest a Newco FC applying for entry into the SPL had any primacy over an application to the SFL. In fact, an application to the SFL would not have to overcome the unfortunate objections of Dunfermline Athletic – who pay their BBC licence fee and are worthy of due respect.
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gordybhoy64:
Good question, seeing as how the administrators themselves have suggested it.
Mate, it could happen. Easily.
i am hearing from a very good source that Rangers might have some financial problems.
i know its impossible for such a well run, well goveranced, honest, and fair playing club,
but its what i heard.
James,just hope to god it doesnt pan out this way
Should the hun and its fellow travellers and sycophants ” do a houdini “, we can be certain that there will be some of us who will blame our Board.
Even the issue over retrospective punishment doesn’t matter.
The SPL and SFA might find it legally difficult to chase a team that no longer exists, in order to punish them for failed registration of players.
James Forrest
Excellent post, but you are forgetting the side contract penalties, Uefa, etc.
Bear in mind, our beloved club is yet to make any real comment.
But then again, this amount of negative information is unprescedented.
Their only way out is to bring the lot down with then, make sure scotland cannot compete in international or european competition until they are back in what ever form.
James and Ernie
Help me out here
What about the legal challenges to all this from within the SPL?
What is to stop every other club doing the same?
What about the future court cases for the newco and the ownership?
Who will buy them who has enough money to revitalize them?
Does Ticketus disappear with newco?
What of the punishments mooted that the SPL will give them (the sweethearts deal if you like?)
Uefa guarantee 3 years without Europe regardless.
A lot of questions.
We might not get to see them lose their top flight status but those cards have been lined up from day 1 but every other side in the SPL have a legal challenge as we all know about the rule – no relegation and top side from Division 1 comes up.
I can sense the fears but a lot of water is to flow under the bridge yet.
James F
The dominos have been getting strategically placed for the past 6 months with a fair bit of slight of hand to divert our attention from the main play. All those needless court appearances etc. were just a diversion, to create a sense of chaos and hide the real story.
I hope I am wrong, but everything is making sense now!!
james . saw it coming bhoy saw it coming .
jimtim on 5 March, 2012 at 19:59 said:
i hope were not all hoping for a monumental decision against rangers ,. it wont happen . Yes they will get sanctions against them , but they will be the lightest that can possibly be handed down , and you can take that to the bank , Every single one of us has seen it all before . CW getting to appoint the administrators . the SFA/ SPL managing the big enquiry . The constant delays , No eufa guidance in all this . Im afraid to say i fear were not going to get the result that we should be looking for . Time to dust down the dossier peter .
jimtim
share
jimtim
if it does pan out
that way boycott
scotland games at
hampden
hurt =pocket
James Forrest is The Emperor of Ice Cream on 8 March, 2012 at 00:03
I still think that there would have to be a newco which would need the consent of the SFA and either the SFL or SPL.
I can’t see how any corporate version of find the lady can disengage the league registration from the debt.
The problem is we are totally powerless and can only hope the Celtic board show themselves to be worth successors of Bob Kelly.
Ceaser67 on 7 March, 2012 at 22:25 said:
Hun on snyde tonight wants greigs statue melted and make one of C W. Keevins ripped into him!!
Trust me on this, that was no hun
wind up par excellence
he’s been at it for days
Calls up as GUS
one of our own
HH
Mike
To heck with the Scotland games…boycotting of all away SPL games is the only way the Celtic support can hurt those that have sided with the filth. It goes against the grain of ‘supporters’ but I can not see any other way we can protest.
Hail Hail
Boys help me out here, if they get liquidated surely the history etc has to go.
Any way LIQUIDATION STILL ON THE CARDS
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire on 7 March, 2012 at 23:53 said:
Auldheid,
We’d be colateral damage, the seriousness if the scottish administrations offences brings shame on every other organisation its associated with.
—————————
What would UEFA’s motive be in putting a well run club in trouble? The injustive would be so great it would warrant legal action and since the sanction for doing that had already been applied Celtic would have nothing to lose an UEFA everything for what end. Of all scenarios Celtic being punished for Rangers sins is the most unlikely.
Surely, in the scenario that James Forrest fears, HMRC would scream the loudest.
We are still presented with same stadium, same league, same fans, some familiar director names, same strip, slightly (???) different name. The central dilemma remains:-
If they claim they are still Rangers, they are liable for Rangers debts (everyone who was there through the Whyte and Murray eras).
If they claim they are new, they will not have Rangers record. Allowing them to Continue within the SPL would be an unpalatable outcome but lessened by a formal agreement that Old rangers are dead and this new club has no track record of achievement.
James you just let half the air out of my party balloons
Let’s take the legal avenues first.
Paul Murray gets Rangers say. No Ticketus deal. That is gone with the old company, so there’s no legal case. UEFA will be told that Rangers were poorly run, suffered greatly, that is now past and the club is going to run properly. Apologies will be made for past sins, including EBT’s. UEFA will not let them play in Europe for three years, but that will not bother them with no debt.
SPL punishments will be minor. What’s the worst they can do? A points deduction? With Rangers in no debt, they will have money to spend on new players and will certainly not finish in a league position where a deduction will make any difference; i.e. a relegation place. Because they won’t be in Europe anyway a point deduction is a joke … a slap on the wrist.
There will be no court cases. Why not? Because there will not be a company left to contest them. The debts, the legal problems, will belong to the dead company.
Legal challenges from within the SPL are the ONLY thing that might work, and if we are involved in that this process stops dead.
But this could happen. Definitely.
HENRIC
yes its gone !
next to gretna
and 3rd lanark
bon accord
James Forrest is The Emperor of Ice Cream on 8 March, 2012 at 00:08 said:
Even the issue over retrospective punishment doesn’t matter.
The SPL and SFA might find it legally difficult to chase a team that no longer exists, in order to punish them for failed registration of player
————-
James how can a team that no longer exists pass on its history to a Rangers SPL 2012 wouldn’t any link to the former entity rendered it liable to creditors of the old club? A new club would be exactly that new – no history inception date 2012. I’d also be interested in knowing how Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and Hearts boards would react to this of never mind what UEFAs stance would be. If Rangers can not play the remainder of thier games this season its simple 3 points awarded to each club they would have played Sky get a choice of other games, mainly involving Celtic i assume, and the TV revenue is spilt between the remaining SPL teams Rangers share being divided between the clubs who have lost out on revenue because Rangers did not play at their ground.
setting free the bears on 8 March, 2012 at 00:19 said:
I echo your fine comments.
I hope that James can now get a good nights sleep on the back of them.
Huns to limbo, nowhere else.
pigalle
james
calm down your worrying the
younger posters
listen
LIQUIDATION IS ON THE CARDS
It’s a chilling prospect. However:
The SPL members, including Celtic and Hibs (I mention Hibs because of Petrie’s strong stance on TV last night), not the administrator, decides who plays in the SPL, and whether an as-yet non-existent club can play out the fixtures of a soon-to-be-defunct one
If they (newco) are allowed to play oldco’s remaining fixtures, wouldn’t the tax man and indeed all the other debtors say, ‘well you are clearly the same entity then, – pay up’?
Surely the idea of newco immediately replacing oldco would be unacceptable to uefa, especially considering recent policies? (as well as being repugnant to everyone with ideas of sporting integrity and credibility)
Are ticketus really so stupid that they will allow themselves to be stiffed so easily for well over £20m?
If oldhuns are liquidated then those serving on oldhun board e.g. Paul Murray aren’t legally allowed to serve on newhun board
The media’s ‘TV money’ argument will fall down, as the newhun would play in Division 1 next season and there would be no four O*d F**m games
Rankers would still be liquidated. The newco would still be divorced, forevermore, from all of rankers 1873’s titles and trophies
The case for stripping rankers 1873 of titles in EBT era would still be a valid one
Snake Plissken on 8 March, 2012 at 00:10 said:
It’s too late to go through all that. The only thing I’m sure of is that Ticketus will get their money some way or other. They haven’t advanced £24m without the benefit of a security no matter which name is on the floating charge. They paid the money up front to Whyte so that he could hoodwink Minty into believing he (Whyte) was providng funds from his own resources. They are in on whatever Whyte’s plan is.
JF.
stop fretting.
the legal, law, due process, litigation, people owed money , and fair play UEFA aspects
means
they wont exist.
or reinvent themselves
for a very long time.
they come back in to SPL as NEWCO and the serious uefa administrators will ask
WHY
THE RANGERS ARE ALLREADY DIE.
WHY
COS YOUR NOT REAL PEOPLE
WHY
COS THE BIG HOOSE ISNT OPEN
AND THE BOTTOM LINE IS YOUR NOT ALLOWED.
Maybe we will have Dundee Utd on our side when crunch time arrives:
Utd slam SFA over Rangers £70k bill
By STEWART FISHER
7 Mar 2012
DUNDEE UNITED are furious with the SFA for not doing enough to help them recover the £70,000 owed to them by Rangers.
Administrators for the cash-strapped Ibrox club have promised to pay Dunfermline the £84,000 outstanding for ticket sales from their league clash on February 11.
But the Tannadice club haven’t been offered the same assurances over the ticket money they are out of pocket for from their Scottish Cup clash at Ibrox the previous weekend.
SFA chief executive Stewart Regan has written to United on the matter and insisted that any future payments due to Rangers for their appearance in the Scottish Cup could be offset and go instead to United as an overdue payment.
This guarantee should provide them the missing money by the end of this season at the latest, but the Tannadice club are thought to be unsatisfied with that response and have called in the club’s lawyers.
It appears unlikely that the situation will be resolved by the time United host Rangers in the league on March 17.
“For an organisation with around £20m in the bank, and one of their competitions, it is ridiculous,” one source close to the Tannadice club said last night.
“They are going on about all these things they want to investigate but you would think they should look after one of their member clubs first and foremost.
“They could argue it is football debt and would have to settle it at some point. In the spirit of goodwill, and to comply with SPL requirements, they could argue they were justified to pay it but it should still be the same for the Scottish Cup.”
Both matches took place before the Ibrox club lurched into administration on February 14.
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/utd-slam-sfa-over-rangers-70k-bill-1.1151575
Hail Hail
The Ghood will prevail on 8 March, 2012 at 00:23 said:
‘It’s a chilling prospect. However:
The SPL members, including Celtic and Hibs (I mention Hibs because of Petrie’s strong stance on TV last night), not the administrator, decides who plays in the SPL,’
The SPL are maintaining, albeit in rather vague, nebulous and possibly deliberately ambiguous language, that it’s a decision for the board of the SPL
rather than the members.
Ernie
Well the thing is ticketus getting their money means it comes from the season tickets and that arrangement will doubtless be a future debt of whatever form they emerge as.
Hail hail cqn
Just looked in and was well worried with all the talk of the Huns getting away
Without paying their debts.
They going to escape some of them but their is going to be a load of pain.
So what’s the main issue the newco or the pre pack administration ?
Havingapartywhenthehunsdiex csc
James F
“But this could happen. Definitely. ”
Your anxieties and paranoia are leading you to mix up your conditionals and definites there :-)
Anything can theoretically happen. That’s definitely true. But how plausible is it? Even if Murray directors are in cahoots with Whyte’s people AND the Administrators, that still leaves HMRC, SFA and SPL outside the conspiracy.
Now ill DPL & SFA think that Rangers or HMRC are the more powerful enemy to face? Will HMRC just give up this lengthy process without crying foul and seeking political muscle for fairness? Will all Scottish football fans who have been enjoying the hun plight (even Hearts & Killie fans were joining in) just roll over and forget?
I think our anxieties are legitimate. I’ll not believe they are dead until the 4th or 5th autopsy has been performed but I still think there are too many variables loaded against the outcome that deluded Rangers fans might want.
THIS JUST IN: ranjurz WILL be in Europe after all, they’ve just signed Engelbert Humperdink!
Snake Plissken on 8 March, 2012 at 00:28 said:
I think it’s more likely Ticketus will get their money from the sale of the stadium. Maybe not all at once, but they will be paid.
surely now . our position in this country under the football authority is now untenable . How can we possibly stay and play in this league under people who have supported and backed a team who have allegedly cheated member clubs over many years. As i said a few days ago time to produce the dossier celtic.
jimtim
James Forrest is The Emperor of Ice Cream on 8 March, 2012 at 00:03 said:
ernie:
100% right. This whole charade could end with them maintaining their league place, their history, their squad and their name, debt free.
It will be an unparalleled scandal. But I can see it out the window.
share
Confused now, 1 person saying they lose history and now another person saying they won’t.
If only Celtic had an escape route lined up..we could then play the moral high ground card – Us or Them in the SPL…
Ernie
Unless Craig Whyte fancies leasing the stadium to Rangers for the next 40 years and he gets his annual cut and they get their money through the tickets.
Would leasing Ibrox not give him a bigger pay day for longer?