Despite a remarkably solid defensive record, we have lost four and three goals on our two visits to Ibrox this season, although two of yesterday’s goals were lost with a two man deficit. We were deservedly a goal down before Cha Du-Ri was ordered off and the contest irrevocably skewed. Several Celtic players looked panicked from the opening minutes and it wasn’t until Kris Commons started to menace the Rangers midfield that we appeared comfortable in possession.
Until then, we looked pretty ordinary.
After a remarkably consistent run of games that ensured this season’s league title is Celtic’s, two big games, which could each have delivered a trophy, have been lost.
The drive to the line which is needed for teams to fulfil their potential is not there yet. It will come. Days like yesterday, months like October, are what team building is all about.
If you need a pick-me-up, enjoy The Celtic Family video above, its’ sure to hit the spot.
To read CQN Magazine go to the dedicated site the graphic below is just an overview.
Thanks to everyone who has bought a hard copy of issue 7. Order your copy for delivery by clicking on the link below for news and views from Celtic supporters.
Pay by card or Paypal.
1,243 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
- 6
- 7
- ...
- 33
- »
RogueLeader on 26 March, 2012 at 12:08 said:
I just don’t think that was a goal scoring opportunity when he was taken out. He may have had one but to say that is a very subjective rather than going on the facts infront of you.
Just my opinion brother…
savo01
Agree re Hooiveld…..too many in our crowd were quick to slaughter the guy after one or two misplaced passes…..the same clowns who abused Sami, Telfer, Strachan and others…..the same clowns who abused our team / manager from the outset yesterday, sat right behind me as we were seeking to win the league in a huge game against our biggest rivals….Great Supporters ??? Sometimes our own worst enemies…..
Like Ann from Rutherglen or Cambuslang or wherever last night who claimed to be a Celtic supporter and called Chick Young to berate our manager. The worst kind of smug, I told you so expert consumer season ticket holders…..these armchair quarterbacks are close to as low as the other lot. The media dont need to work hard when we have 20 000 of these types influencing opinion in our midst.
We did not do ourselves justice yesterday, we were not allowed to in part. today is the time to debate and discuss and reason as to why on here…..not abusing our team and manager during the game and not trying to seek fame and celebrity pandering to Chick Young and his twisted pannel …..
Glendalystonsils likes a mr whippy with his lime green jelly on 26 March, 2012 at 12:11 said:
Ibleedgreenandwhite
Totally agree. The two games we have played at Ibrokes this season we have not looked like ourselves at all. Contrast that with the draw in the cup there last season when we looked confident and fearless. The referee decided the outcome of yesterdays game, but there’s no doubt in my mind we didn’t handle the occasion well.
Right from the off our players looked rattled,,,Ki and Wanyama especially looked lost,playing 4 central midfielders didnt help though,lost count of the amount of times Ki Victor Joe and Brown were within ten yards of each other,all of them trying to play in the same space!
We were crying out for someone like Commons!!
Hail hail
Firstly, credit to Tom McLaughlin for his apology post of the last thread. Significantly, he said he would never again defend Callum Murray.
StFlannansbg, cheers for your reassurrance about Oz Tims. Old ST tries his best to pull you all in the opposite direction.
St MichaelsBhoy made a great point about RFCIA and yesterday. He said that the game/scenario/refereeing/media etc was a microcosm of why RFCIA are currently in administration. Their foul play and more is ignored or treated leniently by officials, their offensive crowd is ignored by the media, their club is indulged by the SFA, and their financial doping allows them to field players they can’t afford and haven’t paid for. Wallace’s simulation was blatant at the Cha red card, he was not flagged offside at the second goal, and he scored the third goal. They have paid for him and they have had to reduce the wages they signed him on by 75%!
Their fans howled for a foul/penalty when Wallace went down, not a red card. No one thought it was a red card, none of the pundits even thought that as they watched it. We are often told that the ref has to watch things in real time, without the benefit of multiple slomo replays, so his decision has to be seen in that light. At real time speed, no one would have surprised if Murray had simply waved play on, since both men had fallen over in a tangle of legs with the ball heading out of play. Every person who saw that was surprised at his decision, but none will say that. Instead, they are lining up to look for some justification for it.
Rogue Leader, well I disagree entirely. It was not a red card offense, and if we are strictly applying the laws of the game as you posited, can we not start with the more obvious breaches that occurred wherever McCulloch happened to be. His offended were not mere tackles, they were assaults followed by simulation, and he should have been off before they went one up. There are two issues: was it a foul and then was it a red card? IMO yes to a foul (although he could easily have given a foul against Wallace for simulation) and definitely no to a red card. It was simply just not an “obvious goal scoring opportunity”. Why? Because we are all debating this card this morning. He was so far outside the box, not directly in front of goal, and there was a defender still goal side of him making his way over to tackle him. I believe that Murray was likely informed via his headset that Cha was the last man, and so Murray felt he had to go. By the time Wallace and Cha slid to a stop they were the two last men, but only because everyone else stopped when the whistle was blown. At the time of the tackle he wasn’t the last man. Does anyone know the name of the linesman, and wasn’ he the same one who “missed” the offside Wallace at the second goal?
Apart from the grossly wrong red card, and missing the simulation by Wallace, the main issue is that Murray did not apply those same standards to what was perpetrated by those in blue.
Watching the game yesterday my automatic reaction was that Cha’s was a deserved red card.
Given the general disagreement on this point I have just watched the replay a few times.
1.Was it a foul? Soft one, but yes I think it was.
2. Was Mulgrew in a position to make a challenge? In my opinion, no chance.
3. Was the ball going to run through to Forster before Wallace would have had a chance to shoot? This is the most difficult one to call, but I think that Wallace would have reached the ball before Forster.
I still think it was a correct red.
Guys
There is no “goalscoring opportunitity” term and rule in Law of the Game. It’s “OBVIOUS goalscoring opportunity” rule. The difference between them is like the difference between Mother and Mother in Law. We can talk about denying obvious goalscoring opportunity if 4 condition are fulfilled and stick to the situation. I posted them last evening. If one of the conditions is not happening it’s not obvious goalscoring opportunity.
Looks like the referees have got a few of you spooked. ‘Ooooh dont be rough you will get a card or sent off’. Some of the players also seem to have that mindset. As I said you can play hard and smart. For those that have played the game you know how its done.
Ibrox when full of baying orcs is a very intimidating place. Yesterday’s Ibrox even more so than usual. Add to that a bullying team who are always allowed to bully married to a referee always allowed to let the bullies free reign and is it any wonder some of our younger players froze at moments.
Beyond gloating/bragging rights yesterday’s game was absolutely meaningless as far as we as a club chasing a flag is concerned.
With RogueLeader arguing that Murray went by the letter of the law on the red card (where perhaps others might not).
I’m not going to suggest that it’s easy to see why their second would not be given as offside. It was only offside if there was actually a flick on for the chance. I’ve watched it a few times, and I couldn’t categorically say one way or the other. And that’s with the benefit of replays.
I’ve been thinking about my general lack of upset at the result this morning and actually I think in some respects the whole league campaign is somewhat secondary to wider events. I’d even go as far as stating that I’d take a loss of the league if it meant that there was correct and proper punishment for all that they have done before in terms of acheivement by duplicitous actions (which would inevitably hand us the league anyway).
I will repeat what i posted earlier this morning
Celtic MUST make an official complaint regarding Murrays handling of the game including his treatment of Lenny
To not do so, means it will keep happening every time we play a crucial match
Over to you PL + the Board
Paul67
I wish the ref and his linesmen has failed to show up…
I was shocked at Cha’s red. Although not surprised – if that makes sense.
Watched it with my mate – who manages a junior team – he called it red. But we both agreed if it had been down the other end we would have been as ‘shocked’ at the decision. It was technically correct. But killed a game we were struggling in anyway.
The thing about Victor’s (Besides Whittaker being guilty of assault) was none of our players complained about it at all.
That’s 2 big, important games our manager has, in my humble opinion, truly messed up. I hope he’s been paying attention and I hope he learns from his mistakes.
If you’re going one up front at Ibrox then it has to be Sammi. And either Izzy is fit or he’s not. 5 across midfield with no wingers to stretch the game? Poor set up.
U
Ten Men Won The League on 26 March, 2012 at 12:25 said:
The treatment of Neil Lennon was the worst aspect of yesterday.
Yesterday showed how important Kayal is. he’d have let Elbows know he was there.
HT @ 11:36
You know I’m of pretty much the same mind set as you on yesterday’s game although I also acknowledge the blatant MIBbery also.
But your list of players:
Auld, NcNeil, Doyle, Lennox I cannot comment on as I only see the good stuff on video. No one keeps and replays the crap.
McGarvey, Aitken, Boyd, Larsson, Sutton & Hartson. I’ve seen each and every one of them let us down as part of Celtic teams when it has mattered.
Let’s not rewrite history.
Larsson and Boyd were in the team that saw them win the league at Celtic Park.
Sutton and Hartson were both involved on Black Sunday.
MWD
RalphWaldoEllison – go to the BBC website and watch the highlights. The incident starts at about 2.12. We both agree the Rangers player was past Cha? The slow mo replay proves he was in front of him. Cha puts his hand up, whilst behind the player and impedes him as much as 5 year old schoolgirl would, however we both agree nowadays that is a foul and a direct free kick. Pause it at 2.15. Cha and the Rangers player hit the deck inside the box. The contact happening a yard outside, not “far outside”. They are probably exactly in the middle of the distance between the D and that edge of the box. Mulgrew is level with the penalty spot and jogging straight towards the goal. Had Cha not fouled the Rangers player would have had a clear shot on goal and unless Mulgrew can accelerate to probably around the 30mph mark there is no way he could have covered that distance, in that time. Mulgrew was covering the centre for a potential cutback and you can see he was making ZERO attempt to close the attacker down, leaving it to Forster who was making his body big for the block rather then shaping himself to dive at Little’s feet. So he too knew he wouldn’t get the ball before the attacker and was preparing for the shot.
As I said this was almost a carbon copy of the scenario I saw and FIFA now say this is a red. It is a scenario that Murray also saw I assume…..
If Wallace is fouled by Cha then why does he fall forward? If he had been pulled he would’ve spun. Putting a hand on someone is not a foul, pulling someone back is a foul. If Cha fouled Wallace then we were denied three clear penalties by Whittaker putting his hands on Ledley in the box. The correct decision by the ref would have been to stop the play, book Wallace for diving and award us an indirect free-kick.
To my mind it was a joke decision that would never have been given had Wallace put a hand on Cha if he was racing towards the Rangers’ goal.
Craiginho
Rules of the game from Fifa
Sending-off offences
A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off if he commits any of the
following seven offences:
• serious foul play
• violent conduct
• spitting at an opponent or any other person
• denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity
by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within
his own penalty area)
• denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving
towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a
penalty kick
• using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures
• receiving a second caution in the same match
========================
On this occasion Wallace was not moving towards the goal, he was moving towards the byline, therefore no red card.
Have a look at the laws and then discuss whether it was even an infringement.
If we want to look up the laws of the game, was Aluko booked for standing on top of the hoarding after scoring? Was Aluko booked when he retaliated after Broony whacked the ball off his legs for a throw in?
If Wallace takes a dive how can it be a red card for Cha ?
Never ever a red card,yellow instead for Wallace.
KTF
Iwatched the game in company of Celtic fans and one neutral,who has no
allegiances in football,at the second sending off he observed that in his view
Celtic were never gonna be allowed to have won yesterday,if he can see that as can we,why are we getting ourselves so wound up about yesterday?.The title is ours,we know it,they know it,yesterday was their last hurrah,they have nothing left to look forward to this year,we have a title party and a big day out in may,hopefully,to come,lets enjoy them
Got to disagree it was not a clear goalscoring opportunity. If Cha hadnt touched him he was going wide of goal would also had cha to beat forster to beat and mulgrew running back to goal to beat. It was a foul and a booking no more.
Savo01
Kayal certainly owes elbows “one”. Mind you theres a long list of players who owe him one. The elbow to the back of broonie’s head yesterday for instance.
Pressed submit there before I meant.
Poor, good and exceptional Celtic teams have let us down over the years when it mattered.
Were both Auld & McNeil not in the Celtic team that failed to bring back the Big Cup in Milan when every Tim knew they should have?
My personal opinion is that as a club Celtic teams let the support down more often than not when it matters. I have experienced more heartache watching Celtic since 1979 when I went to my first game than I have the joys of winning.
We do not own the right to win.
But alas we will win the main trophy this year. The on reach and every one of us wanted over all others.
Yes we blew the treble but are we really a treble winning quite Celtic side when you compare us to the 2 other Celtic teams who have managed this feat since the war.
Yes we blew the one great opportunity rub our league victory in the face of a dying kicking feeble in dignified monstrosity (for now) of an opponent. But when it comes and Neil Lennon wins that award as manager of Celticin their country they will still be sick to the pits of their stomach’s. There is no getting away from that for them. Yes it would have been good to inflict a little more pain on them by us winning yesterday.
Cheer up buddy. The title is still ours. Let’s enjoy it for the winning of it rather than for the rubbing of the blue noses in it.
Hail! Hail!
MWD
The agenda yesterday was not simply to ensure R@ngers won, but to ensure that mayhem and disorder didn’t ensue had they lost. Just my opinion.
So it was Celtics security that advised NL not to go to directors box. Why not and what concerns did they have??
Big Billy against Milan at home in the qtr final 69…..
On Radio Shortbread:
Apparently Celtic have announced that it was their security people who advised Neil not to take his place in the main stand!!!!!
WTF!!!!!!
Hand on heart. As a Celtic Supporter, I ask myself this hypothetical question:
“Would any of those sending off decisions been given if the boot was on the other foot, Rangers were the assailants, and Celtic had been been 1 up yesterday?”
No.
It’s a would they/wouldn’t they scenario.
End of was it/wasn’t it red card debate.
Referees should consider the following circumstances when deciding whather to send off a player for an offence which denies an obvious goal-scoring opportunity:
1) The distance between the offence and the goal. (OK)
2) the likelihood of keeping control of the ball. (Hmmmmm)
3) the direction of play – towards the goal (Nope)
4) The location and number of defenders. (Goalkeeper, 2 others that could clear the line if Wallace somehow manages to keep the ball and round the keeper)
It boils down to opinions in the end.
tigertim on 26 March, 2012 at 12:30 said:
‘Rules of the game from Fifa’
And their guidance notes…
”Referees should consider the following circumstances when deciding whether to send off a player for denying a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity:…..
• the likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball…”
Wallace hadn’t touched the ball when it was passed to him by Aluko. The ball was running away from him.
Murray exercised his discretion. Throughout the game he, and his assistants, exercised their discretion in favour of one team.
Scottish referees are from the same stamp as Scottish football journalists. That’s just a quirk of life in this country. It’s a reflection of the nature of Scottish society.
The only way we’ll get fairness is if we have foreign referees.
The Honest Mistake – you are right, it is down to opinions and interpretations.
A more pertinent question regarding all of this rather than “did he get it right” is “why are Celtic always disadvantaged when referee’s in Scotland are in a situation to interpret the rules?”
I have to say I agree with RalphWaldoEllison-is Neil Lennon on this one.
If we are talking about the letter of the law and the referee’s strict interpretation of the laws of the game why was he so lenient with the rules with Rangers players?
Whittaker went in much higher than Victor did and got nothing.
Whittaker pulled Joe Ledley to the ground in the box and got nothing done to him.
Whittaker again went into the back of Izzaguirre and got nothing
Goian pulled Samaras back by the jersey when he was past him and running in on goal but that was neither a yellow nor a red if those strict rules were being applied.
And then there was the assault on Scott Brown by that scumbag McCulloch who again writhed around on the ground feigning injury which was intentional.
I for one do not care how the next game against them goes as long as few players make sure that guy has a reason for rolling around on the deck in real pain and if he were to suffer what Kayal got and have no club to go to over the summer more the better. I do not wish ill on many people but I’ll make an exception in this creature’s case and his vile quiz show Captain masquerading as a manager who got him free to play in that game to injure Beram.
I know Neil is not that kind of manager and our players are not of that ilk but that guy would deserve it.
But that is not my point, the real point is the laws were not applied strictly by the referee to their players until the match was safe and even then he swithered about the Bocanegra red card AND the penalty and then this referee applying certain rules strictly didn’t play the full 4 minutes nor did he add on the extra minute for a goal celebration and a substitution.
Callum Murray’s performance was staggering in this regard and that is before you get to the Neil Lennon sending off which was done a full ten minutes after Neil spoke to him.
Who was in the referee’s room?
Murray, Brines and two linesmen whose names I don’t know.
Was Jim McLuskey seen in the stand wearing a mic according to posters on here in that referee room or was the mic in the stand enough and did he communicate with them and moreover did he tell them to send Neil from the dugout?
Did anyone from Strathclyde Police go into the referee’s room and offer input into this situation?
This is Dougie Dougie 2 and I hope that the club get another lawyer of Paul McBride’s caliber in there may that poor man rest in Peace and tear down that charade.
It seems obvious to me that some for of discussion has taken place within 10 minutes of Neil speaking to Callum Murray and the refereeing group speaking together. Collusion or at best dialogue between the officials is obvious and it appears Neil Lennon has been lied to again especially as Murray had initially agreed to speak to Neil after the game was over indicating that they could talk together in 20 minutes time and then this was refused which suggests another conversation has taken place between more than one person and Murray has changed his mind.
Once you go beyond 2 people you have a conspiracy and that word is often used to deride us but it appears to the perceptive among us that something is rotten in that situation assuming of course that Neil Lennon is telling the truth and he himself stated he had witnesses who could confirm his story. I believe Neil Lennon not only because I support Celtic but experience has taught me how rotten Scottish officials are.
I hope the club pursue this and get Murray the same treatment we got Dougie Dougie.
Rogue Leader I respect your point of view but as I say Mr Murray needs to strictly apply those rules to both teams evenly and it is clear that he did not and in most of the cases he was merely yards away.
Something stinks over the whole situation.
Victor Wanyama was guilty of niaivity. He went in to win the ball, he did win the ball but on first viewing it looks like a 2-footed lunge with studs up. In reality he wins the ball with one foot with his studs showing, he pulls his right foot back and wins ball with his left.
Its impossible to tackle without studs showing, not to do so would have the foot in an unnatural position and liable to cause serious injury.
Whittaker on the other hand goes over the ball and stamps on Victor deliberately. Not a mention anywhere on radio or tv coverage. Victor was lucky that he was caught flush on the shin pad otherwise his season would be over.
Good morning Bhoys and Ghirls everywhere!
This is a wonderful day…
Because this is a new day at the beginning of a great week.When come Saturday we have the chance to become champions.
Despite everything….
And the world is wonderful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4NooXXUXHQ
Watched the game with the missus yesterday.
She has humoured me by watching the odd SPL match over the last few years, but being American she isn’t very familiar with or interested in football in general or the way things work in Scotland in particular.
I was fairly quiet, engrossed in the game, but she became increasingly agitated as time wore on.
Not long into the second half, she couldn’t take it any more.
“Why doesn’t somebody do something?”, she demanded. “That referee is cheating Celtic! Why doesn’t somebody fire his ass? Why aren’t the announcers saying anything?”
Smart woman, my wife. (thumbsup)
There is no point in beating ourselves up over it. As long as were in this league, run by the same SFA old guard and their footsoldiers officiating, days like yesterday are ALWAYS going to happen.
I didn’t believe for one moment that we were going to be allowed to win that game yesterday. All hell would’ve probably broken loose if we did.
From the official site
NEIL Lennon was understandably disappointed at losing the Glasgow derby 3-2 at Ibrox, a result which put the Hoops´ title party on hold, but he remained proud of his players and the supporters for their showing on Sunday.
Celtic had Cha Du Ri and Victor Wanyama dismissed by referee Callum Murray during the derby encounter and the nine men conceded three goals to the hosts.
However, a courageous comeback saw them score two goals in the closing minutes to make it nervy finish for the hosts, while the fans in the Broomloan Stand continued to show their backing for the team despite the scoreline.
“Rangers started the game well as we expected them to do,” said the manager. “They scored a great individual goal and you have to take your hat off to that, although I´m disappointed with the defending.
“Then we went up the pitch and Samaras goes on a great run. He gets a shot blocked and it falls to Stokesy and he sclaffs a volley from five yards. Then McGregor makes a great save from a Stokes volley. Brown puts one to the far stick for Stokesy, who probably should have done better.
“Then I got a player sent off and I had to take off Stokesy who was looking a real threat in the game. I can´t for the life of me see how that´s a red card. He´s going away from goal, I´m not even sure he´s going to get the ball, the contact is minimal, Charlie Mulgrew is getting over and it changes the game. We´re a man and a goal down.
“Their second goal was offside. Whittaker swings in the cross. Thomas and Lafferty go for it. The ball drops to Wallace, who is in an offside position. The third goal we have got caught chasing the game and it´s a good goal from Rangers´ point of view.
“Then we scored two fine goals and that sums up our players as they keep going on to the final whistle, even at nine men. I´m very proud of them and of our supporters. The character they showed in the second half tells me they will be champions sooner rather than later.
“I congratulate Rangers on their win, I haven’t got a problem with that, but there is mitigating circumstances in why they won.”
Unhappy at the circumstances of Cha´s first-half dismissal, the manager spoke to the referee at the interval. His actions saw him ordered off from the touchline for the second-half.
And how that was conducted, particularly the lack of communication about why he couldn’t take his place in the dugout, angered him more than the two sending offs for his players.
“The first one wasn’t a sending off and the second off was borderline, you can´t tackle like that, and my sending off was a joke,” he said.
“I spoke quite quietly, coldly to the referee in the tunnel. I didn´t swear, didn’t point any fingers. I have witnesses. I do my team talk at half-time and was walking back out and got called back into the referee´s room, so I can´t do my job.
“And that to me is the most galling one of the lot. I went into see him at half-time. and he said you were warned about your behaviour, but I said what was wrong with my behaviour in the tunnel and I never got an answer.
“After the game I wanted to see him and I got a message back to wait 20 minutes and then I could go and see him. Twenty minutes later and the referee wouldn’t see me.
“I want some answers and I´m not getting them and as manager of the football club I think I deserve that.I was deprived of doing my job properly when my team needed me.”
For safety reasons, the manager was advised not to watch the second-half from the stand and had to view the match from the confines of the press room
“I was told for my own safety it wasn´t a good idea,” he said. “I can´t sit in the stand for my own safety. It sums up things up in this country. Needless to say I´m not happy about it.
“The biggest game of the season and I can´t go out into the stand and watch my team or send down messages. I have Stevie Woods at the door running up and down the tunnel for me. I can´t get a view of the game as it´s only on the screen so I may as well have sat in the house and watched the second half.
“I don´t think I deserved to be sent off, and my staff are very angry about it and my players are angry and disappointed but I´m proud of the players and the fans. You saw in the last 20 minutes they kept going and that´s why they will be champions.
“They weren’t at their best today but they weren’t allowed to be either. When you´re down to nine men it´s an uphill task.”
I’ve never seen a hollow victory celebrated in such a way. McCoist’s face at 3-0 would have suggested a Champions League Trophy in the cabinet but at time up the same coupon was chalk white. It really did say more about the desperate state the huns are in, that they absolutely revelled in the fact we didnt win the league at Ibrokes. However the pain and anguish will set in again very soon.
I personally think NL should win the double and leave. He has no chance of peace in this bigoted dump. He gets it from all angles, msm and huns alike. He could quit on a high and get a job in England. He’s so high profile now that he’d be head-hunted by TV stations and he’d also have the opportunity to tell it all to an English Newspaper. If ever there was a lid to be blown off, this is the one. Go and tell the world Neil.
hh