Organisational indiscipline remains a concern


Yesterday’s win at Fir Park was huge for Celtic’s season but we should caution against talk of a corner being turned.  The team possessed the resilience (and Irish magician) to come from behind and beat the team who were second in the league, but we have been here before.

The Motherwell goal will cause Neil Lennon particular concern.  After losing a goal to an early corner kick against Rennes on Thursday, it seems impossible to believe that the team switched off at another corner kick, but only Beram Kayal was alert to the threat of Motherwell taking a short corner, and he was already covering a threat.

Organisational discipline is as important as having better players to the outcome of many football games.

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  1. Watched the Celtic v real Madrid replay there from 1980 it was on espn the other night.



    Was a proper Celtic team , always attacking plenty of pace.



    Had a chortle when I spotted a Murray international metals advertising hoarding.

  2. HT,



    if i’d been on the blog for that vote, you would have had all 11 – when I saw the start of CSB’s post this morning, I stopped reading and had a go at my own 11. – as I had Tom Boyd as my LB!






  3. Paul67



    I quite agree with your assessment. The lack of organisation in our defence is a major part of the problem. Too often our defenders are being dragged about the park or being found marking nothing at corners etc. These players aren’t especially bad players but they are not organised properly.



    I feel this situation stems from the coaching staff and the manager. We can sign better defenders maybe, but if we don’t organise them properly it won’t really matter who we play at the back. The coaching staff need to either accept their faults in this matter and rectify them or get someone in who can do the job properly.

  4. Neil Lennon Is A Celtic Soul Brothersays:



    7 November, 2011 at 12:27


    Cheers for that.



    Even in the last minute of game. Young Bhoy McGeoch scythe by Hateley.”…….a welcome to the SPL tackle” smirks the commentator.



    Who is tackle Tom Hateley who is “impartial” pundit in the studio.


    Mark Hateley.

  5. When we got our first corner kick yesterday, no one went to take it, it was like a school game, everybody looking to everyone else to take the corner, and when Mathews takes a free kick, he turns to the dugout for instructions as to where to play the ball ! por cierto.

  6. Neil Lennon Is A Celtic Soul Brother on

    Posted by Paddimir on Twitter earlier



    Rangers to appeal to faculty of advocates to extend the season due to legal fixture congestion!

  7. Paul agree we need to be organsied but disagree on Kayal’s part, he correctly moved out to give us 2 players covering the short corner then retreated to the front post when he should have stayed where he was to prevent the short corner. By retreating he left 2 on 1 and allowed a short corner and subsequently a cross to come in.



    Once the corner is taken short the defence did the correct thing and started to come out squeezing the space and most likely leaving the Motherwell forwards offside. Only problem was Matthews was slow to come out.



    Simples , where do I apply for the defensive coaching job , although I think £40k a night on MOTD sounds better move over Hansen.

  8. Paul67



    I agree with the lead but I think we’ve seen this movie before.



    If they go out on the Sunday and repeat the same mistake they made on a Thursday, it’s not about organisational discipline.


    – sadly more about capability of player.



    This will be a recurring theme.

  9. I actually thought our centre halfs played very well, and big Dan has had two excellent performances in a row.



    I think when players play well they need to be allowed to keep the jersey, that’s how to create the competition for places.



    Dan and Rogne until further notice, Charlie will have to really fight for a jersey.



    Kayal and Wanyama until further notice. Ki will have to really fight for a jersey.



    Hooper and Stokes have to fight to keep their place as a front two rather than Kris or Paddy or James Forrest supporting. Joe Ledley has to perform consistently to keep the left side as his own ahead of a fit again Kris Commons and Sammy who’s begun making a contribution.



    Izzy on the left and Matthews on the right and our supporting options and pairings can start to get a head of steam.



    I think we’re capable of a long run but I think we need to play players in their own position and allow them to keep it when playing well. We didn’t ride on Ki’s back against Rennes or Murderwell, time to allow competition to do its natural work.

  10. Imatim and so is Neil Lennon on

    2010 Never Again



    I just wonder if a lot of our problems in defending set pieces is our lack of height throughout the team.



    From Sundays team only Samaras, Dan and Rogne are over 6ft. Our midfield players are not the biggest and our full backs are the same.



    This just might be the reason we continue to zonal mark. There’s not enough height in our team to man mark all the taller opposing players. Anyone?

  11. How about Centre Backs that cut out crosses instead of ball watching stuck in a zone!



    – why do we continually see the ball go over six foot plus CB’s Rogne, Danny, Mulgrew, Whoever’s head, whilst


    they watch?



    Oh wait —– McManus Caldwell yada yada

  12. CelticSephiroth says:


    7 November, 2011 at 12:40



    The defence moved out on cue – except for one defender. He made the mistake. You see it week after week in the SPL, the EPL, the Championship. It happens in every league every week.



    I think we’re going into overdrive with this over analysis.



    We need to be careful. The more we debate these issues the more they become ingrained as a fact. A good example of this was when fan forums criticised Neil Lennon’s 4 2 4 formation. The more it was discussed the more fans accepted that was the formation Celtic was playing. The truth in that case was that we were in fact playing 4 4 2. Neil actually said that at the time. I can’t do the linky thing otherwise I would post it.



    Its a little like what’s happening now. Fans are criticising zonal marking. Is that the tactic we’re using? I’ve never heard NL saying that – although he may have. When I’ve heard it from the horse’s mouth I’ll believe it.

  13. Imatim,



    you dont need to be tall to man-mark. Fact is anyone, no matter what height, can put off a much taller opponent just by their presence thereby preventing a full clean contact by the opponent……unlike when they get a free header due to having space from the defender “marking” his zone as opposed to the opponent himself!






  14. Lurgan 53



    While I understand what you’re saying, this isn’t an isolated incident now. We’re poor at defending set pieces, many would argue we’re poor at defending in general. Our defenders show poor positional discipline and in my view that comes from the way you train them and drill them. I feel that buying better defenders might mitigate the problem to an extent but you still have to organise the defence based on the abilities of the players you have available, at the moment we aren’t doing that. The likes of Majstorovic aren’t brilliant but he can do a job if used properly, limited as he is.



    I feel the main issue we have is that we’re not organising the defence properly at management level.

  15. Lurgan53



    I think you make an interesting point with regards to over analysis. Granted we’ve lost 2 goals from consecutive matches but the circumstances of both goals were completely different.

  16. Lurgan53,



    like you I have not heard from the horse’s mouth, but if we are not playing zonal marking at set-pieces, who the hell are our defenders supposed to be marking, because most of them certainly do not appear to be man-marking any opponents!






  17. The Honest Mistake (Sickened) on

    The biggest problem that we have is putting players on the posts for corner kicks.


    Well that is where analysing two goals we’ve lost from corners recently would logically lead you.

  18. Just an observation:



    This blog is a brilliant place when there aren’t any obvious HUNDERMINERS doing their best to unsettle and lead the blog with their own divisive agendas.



    As can be seen by reading back this morning’s (and last night’s) comments, everyone knows that all is not rosy in the garden but constructive criticism and generally level headed comments are being made without snide undertones.



    I’ll add my tuppence worth. While I have no insight into football tactics apart from the odd enlightening moment, it just seems logical to me that once we are afforded a settled defence, this will improve the whole balance and confidence of the side. The team just needs to shed this run of bad luck regarding injuries IMO. Watch us go then.

  19. Imatim and so is Neil Lennon on

    2010 Never Again



    I see the huns are in denial once again. Look how the refs favour Timmy. Sad but true I’m afraid



    The card count to date as posted on FF. I take it it’s 1 point for a yellow and 2 for a red



    Club Yellow Red Total


    Hearts 27 2 31


    Inverness CT 25 2 29


    Aberdeen 22 3 28


    St Mirren 25 1 27


    St Johnstone 25 0 25


    Hibernian 25 0 25


    Dunfermline 21 2 25


    Motherwell 19 2 23


    Rangers 18 2 22


    Dundee United 19 1 21


    Kilmarnock 21 0 21


    Celtic 10 2 14

  20. Good article Paul.



    Yesterday was a good result earned in difficult circumstances but will be made meaningless if we do not get a win at Inverness and follow it up with a run of victories.



    Never has an international break been more welcome. Time to practise defending and get some players fit.

  21. The defence was slow to come out at the Motherwell goal but as Craig Paterson pointed out at another goal, with the old offside law it wouldn`t have counted. :-)

  22. Snake Plissken on

    All the card count proves is that Celtic are not a dirty team but that Motherwell and Rangers are far too low down on that list because they both should have had more red and yellow cards.

  23. Lurgan 53 says:


    7 November, 2011 at 12:59



    ‘Its a little like what’s happening now. Fans are criticising zonal marking. Is that the tactic we’re using? I’ve never heard NL saying that – although he may have. When I’ve heard it from the horse’s mouth I’ll believe it.’



    Man marking is easy to recognise. Players stick to the player they’re marking.



    Zonal marking is not so easy to recognise. It’s easy to assume that if defenders aren’t sticking to their opposite numbers that it’s zonal marking. It might be, or it could just be bad defending.



    Personally, for set pieces I’d have a player on each post (zonal lite) and man marking for the rest. And a player responsible (not necessarily the captain) for making sure it’s done right.



    I don’t think we’re good enough for zonal marking to work to best effect.

  24. Motherwell (man marking) conceded 2 corners and lost one goal.



    Celtic (zonal marking) conceded 11 corners and lost one goal, arguably not from the corner itself but phase 2 of the play.



    Celtic season 2010/11 (zonal marking) lost fewer goals than any other team in the league.



    You never hear anyone saying “they lost that goal because they’re not zonal marking”. It’s a favourite hobby horse of know-it-all-like-the-sound-of-their-own-voice-TV-pundits.



    The theory behind zonal marking is sound. If every zone is marked then the player responsible for that zone is charged with winning the header should the ball arrive there. It also allows you to cover the posts. When man marking you must leave 2 players free to mark the posts. Also when man marking there are arguably more factors to consider, like the attacker losing his marker, teaming, blocking.



    Neither are perfect, but I don’t think anyone has ever conclusively proven that zonal marking cannot work as well as man marking. Sometimes it will also depend on what works best for your personnel.



    Barcelona zonal mark. But Barcelona do everything better I suppose. It suits a smaller team.

  25. looking at weekends results in paper,Albion Rovers beat Airdrie 7-2.


    It is their first win in local derby in 35 years.Considering that Airdrie


    have not been going that long,how is this possible?



    This is what will happen when rearangers united ,come into being.

  26. Imatim…..



    I wonder did the statisticians on FF bother to examine how many fouls were committed before any card was administered?



    Mmmmmmm naw didnae think so.

  27. Imatim and so is Neil Lennon on

    2010 Never Again



    But do we have enough tall players to man mark if we wanted to?

  28. Imatim



    Maybe you should just stop posting on FF… did you used to buy the NOTW by any chance too? Guys like you make CQN and FF like a parallel universe.

  29. Imatim and so is Neil Lennon on

    hamiltontim says:


    7 November, 2011 at 13:19





    I wonder did the statisticians on FF bother to examine how many fouls were committed before any card was administered?



    Mmmmmmm naw didnae think so.






    2010 Never Again



    Using the hun logic it’s strong evidence there is a conspiracy clearly at play. I kid you not!

  30. The figures for the number of cards dished out hardly tell the whole story.



    Just look at that performance yesterday by The Pride of Auchinleck.

  31. And another thing: goalkeeper distribution.



    Most of the time the long ball forward results in us losing possession, so why do we keep doing it?



    Why not distribute to the defence and build the attack from there?



    It works in Football Manager 2011. (thumbsup)

  32. Hoops v Sion rematch unlikely



    Share 7 Nov 2011



    The never ending saga:



    CELTIC are unlikely to face Sion again in the Europa League.



    If CAS rule in favour of the Swiss club, a number of possible scenarios have been considered, including starting Group I from scratch.



    But after meeting with Uefa, Sion believe they will be brought back in at the knock-out stage, with one tie becoming a group of three, the winner of which will progress to the last 16.

  33. Green Lantern (((((0))))) on

    Keep the pressure on the cluggers ,hun sympathetic wee diddy teams, rangerees and churnalists.

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