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Organisational indiscipline remains a concern

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Yesterday’s win at Fir Park was huge for Celtic’s season but we should caution against talk of a corner being turned.  The team possessed the resilience (and Irish magician) to come from behind and beat the team who were second in the league, but we have been here before.

The Motherwell goal will cause Neil Lennon particular concern.  After losing a goal to an early corner kick against Rennes on Thursday, it seems impossible to believe that the team switched off at another corner kick, but only Beram Kayal was alert to the threat of Motherwell taking a short corner, and he was already covering a threat.

Organisational discipline is as important as having better players to the outcome of many football games.

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  1. Imatim and so is Neil Lennon says:

     

     

    re your point from yesterday about lacking players over six feet to man mark.

     

     

    -> You are absolutely correct. Our team are too small. We cannot compete with top european sides in terms of skill, but height and strength are variables we can control. More and more goals are coming from set pieces. (2009 – approx 40% of epl goals came from set piece!!) If so many scoring opportunites are available from throw ins/corners/free kicks etc, then why are we not building a team that can take advantage of this? Surely a long throw expert, and a number of big guys is the quickest (and cheapest!) way to close the gap on the big guns. Look at stoke city in england – they hold their own in the league, and qualified for europe by doing just this. Additionally, if so many opportunities are available for the opposition, we need (NEED) to make sure that we have enough air power to defend against these teams. Every SPL team plays a big striker against us…. every week. So why does this not dictate what kind of athlete we put up against them?

     

     

    This might sound dramatic, but it is true. Gordon Strachan undid MON’s work in that respect, and brought in too many small guys. He got results, but despite his strategy. (remember his ‘7 dwarves’ quote at the man utd game? Well… you bought those guys Gordon.

     

     

    Things are slowly changing at the club, but not enough. the U19 team last night lacked the usual scrawny midgets (“talented but tiny”) that we always used to see in celtic reserve/age group sides. The Young Hoops had a few tall blokes (a bit skinny, but just due to age) and quite a lot of powewr in the team. At senior level Neil has signed guys like Mulgrew (“good athlete” -neil’s words) and Wanyama- who frankly the rest of the team should look at and think “… i want to look like him…” ie: players who are tall enough, strong enough and athletic enough to compete at top level football.

     

     

    pulis gets it right at Stoke, it is about controlling the variables that we can control. We might not be the most skillfull team in Euroipe, but we can be one of the fittest, one of the biggest, one of the strongest.

  2. For Yoda’s sake.

     

     

    Phils article is old news. Paul wrote an article stating as much the other week and my information concurred with Paul’s.

     

     

    Get your head out the sand lads and let Dermott Desmond know your feelings and action you are prepared to take if/when he colludes to keep the Old Firm brand alive. If he does collude to allow Rangers direct re-entry then it confirms the opinion of many supporters this last few years.

     

     

    I for one will not pay hard earned money knowing and having it confirmed that I support the Old Firm.

     

     

    Be careful what choice you make Dermott.

     

     

    MWD

  3. I can’t believe Phils article., if it were as Phils says then I’d be finished with Celtic FC, the only way I’d ever consider returning is getting shot of those responsible….. all the way to the major shareholder. It would prove what the huns have always said that “we are the people” with timmy CFC sitting at they’re side ready to grab any scraps from the huns leftovers.

     

     

    No sorry Phil Mac, I’m not buying that in any shape or form, it would destroy our club.

     

     

    V

     

    HH

  4. James Forrest.

     

    “Seriously. Today, of all days, we shouldn’t be raking over the coals of every bad refereeing decision from last year.”

     

     

    There is of course the choice to discuss both the referees and Phils article.

     

     

    On the former I may be biased but remember watching the debacle against Hamilton in a bar in Playa la Arena, Tenerife. This little old barman from Tractor Boy land was drying the glasses and watching the match. Every now and again he lets out a laugh and a gasp at the refereeing inconsistencies and concludes by expressing the firm view that the referee had been nobbled or had a big bet on the eventual result.

     

     

    He wasn’t speaking to me and didn’t know my alliegiances. He said if it walks like a duck, quacks etc etc.

     

     

    Said it all for me. It was there to be seen.

     

     

    As for Phil’s view then god help us and more importantly god bless Celtic R.I.P.

  5. has daryl been at a spin class ? The talk sport interview will have many around the uk thinking the huns have been a tad unlucky being picked on by the taxman.Bul**hit.Years of tax avoidance to help win titles by an odd goal or point.Boke.Spiers last night on snyde was given 10mins before the off button was pressed. The media in this country are a joke.

     

    Just read Phils post.Please let him be wrong with this one.Like many my passion for Celtic uses a percentage of my salary that is unhealthy.If the board

     

    let the huns slip out of this situation my finiancial commitment is gone.Let them burn.

  6. james forrest.

     

    yes you are correct in the part that instead of the mib,s we almost did it.

     

    what about the game where motherwell had a goal knocked off?

     

    if the goal had stood (and by the way it was a perfecly good, legal goal)

     

    the mothers would have gone 2-0 up.

     

    do you not see a pattern developing ?

     

    these things happen too many times for it not to be coincidence .

     

    what other team has had referrees lie to them .

     

    so mcCurray etc are all above board?

     

    na too many times mate.

  7. Has Corby in England got a big rangers following ,i see they are going down there to play a game ,prior to the opening of a club or stadium. and is there many tims down there

  8. I'm Neil Lennon (tamrabam) on

    I agree that refs get it wrong, (the Hamilton goal for example)

     

     

    But it could easily be argued that refs get it wrong when we play in Europe at least as much as when we play in Scotland. For example, CL penalties against us – Giggs Man Utd and Edu at Arsenal for example were very soft and a few others last season were also debatable, but we don’t all feel that even European refs are anti celtic do we?

     

     

    The case that even if sami scored at ipox, the same ref would then have given rangers a penalty as well is quite feeble, or if Sami scored the highlanders would have been given assistance to beat us are imaginary.

     

     

    Even after missing the penalty, even then it was still in our hands when we lost to the highlanders (a bottom six team)

     

     

     

    Are you forgetting that a few weeks ago we were down 3-0 at killie in 45 minutes? That first half performance was probably a better indicator of where our true problems really lie.

     

     

    There are ten to twenty thousand empty seats in CP at most league games nowadays

     

    IMO they have stopped because they are not happy with the direction/ambition of the club. I don’t think they have stopped going because refs are biased,

     

     

    Anyway its my last word on the reffing refs, because I know im wasting my time, but the reason I occasionally post on the matter is because I feel that by concentrating on factors such as refs we take our eyes off where the real issues lie.

  9. Big Packie's Accent on

    Dougie Bhoy says:

     

    8 November, 2011 at 13:05

     

    James Forrest is 100% correct.

     

     

    The only reason we lost the league last season was due to our own incompetence and not that of the referees. That, coupled with Rangers hitting a rich vein of form when it mattered, were the ONLY reasons we lost it.

     

     

    End of.

     

    – – – – – – – – – –

     

    Utter gash !

  10. I'm Neil Lennon (tamrabam) on

    Phil has been pretty good with his inside stories so far

     

     

    I’m also a critic of the Celtic boards frugality in recent years feeling that it has cost us CL income that the huns have received instead, so im not hardly a supporter of the board but even so I would find it hard to believe that they would not put a nail into the huns coffin if they had an opportunity.

     

     

    Failure to do so would be unforgivable and lead to Bhoycotts, malcontents and sack the board protests

     

     

    However If our board did support the huns revival then it must be for a reason but I don’t know what that reason could be? Do we have a hidden financial liability ourselves? Is it about the old firm partnership? What could be the reasons for this?

  11. Br\o/gan R\o/gan Trevin\o/ and H\o/gan on

    Good Morning.

     

     

    Back in the schooldays, some boys were afraid of bullies. That being so, one boy in particular, would pay one of the bigger boys for “protection” and in that way ensured that he was never bothered again. Soon others decided to seek the protection of the same boy and it was in this way that “Billy Boy” became aware of his own strength and developed a reputation.

     

     

    Billy Boy– the name is innocent enough. Yet Billy Boy’s physique continued to develop to the extent that he merely had to look at some of the locals in a slightly threatening way and they got the message that they should back off. One day, while working on a local farm, Billy Boy saw the owner’s son take off his belt and mercilessly lash a twelve year old with it. Billy Boy didn’t know what to do about this and so went and told some of his friends what he had seen and soon it became clear to one and all that he had seen the belt incident— and had talked. Within a day or two he was confronted by the owners son about why he had told everyone about the belt whipping. When Billy Boy denied that he had told anyone about the incident, the owners son threatened him and hinted that he might be taking his belt off again– this time to use it on Billy Boy. In response, Billy Boy drew himself up top his full height, and suggested that it would be a good idea if the guy just kept his belt where it was and used it solely for the purposes of keeping his britches up! Billy Boy was not the most educated or eloquent but his meaning was clear. The belt stayed buckled!

     

     

    That was the last time Billy Boy worked on that farm– in fact that was the last time he would work on any farm because quite clearly trouble was coming somewhere down the line. Whatsmore, he had already had some unexpected trouble with a 300 hundred pound pig! The Hog was a nasty ill tempered beast,but that did not stop Billy Boy tormenting it with a stick on occcasion. He would prod it and poke it and get it mad– all from the safety point of outside the pig pen. However one day, Billy Boy started annoying the pig without realising that the pen had been left open. This time in response to the torment, the Pig charged out of its pen and made straight for Billy Boy with the intent of doing some tormenting of its own. Billy Boy did the only sensible thing you can do when you are faced with a 300 hundred pound angry hog– he ran like hell. Ran as fast and as far as he could. Regrettably in his haste to escape the oncoming pig he fell and badly damaged his arm. He managed to rise and get away, escaping the pig, but the damage to the arm was bad and in fact it would never heal properly.

     

     

    It was against this background that a 15 year old Billy Boy left his home and family by bus with a view to avoiding any more farm trouble at the hands of landowners belt weilding children or rampaging pigs. He would never return to farm life and instead he sought a life elsewhere without the hassle. He found a job in a factory working for Coca Cola– although he would not stick that for too long either. He didn’t really like it there.Iin fact he didn’t really like the city! So he moved on again– yet another journey by bus– to another city which this time he would make his lifelong home.

     

     

    And he would change his name. He would no longer be Billy Boy. Instead he would gain fame– or perhaps noteriety–as Smokin Joe!

     

     

    Joseph William ” Billy Boy” Frazier was born on farmland in Laurel Bay, Beaufort, South Carolina on 12th January 1944. He would find fame and fortune as a Heavyweight Boxer at a time when the fight game was at its zenith in the heavyweight division– although a careful examiniation of his actual fights shows that his was a career that was more carefully stage managed than one might imagine. He fought professionally for 11 years, and fought only twice in between beating Ali in the fight of the century at Madison Square Garden on 8th March 1971 and losing to George Foreman in Kingston Jamaica on 22nd January 1973. The opponents,Terry Daniels and Ron Stander, whome he beat by TKO in January and May 1972 respectively, were perhaps not the ideal preparation for meeting Big George at the height of his ” Big Bad George” era.

     

     

    There is no doubt that Frazier was a fearsome fighter, with the heart of a lion, brave as they come, with that damaged left arm permenantly “cocked” to deliver that thunderous left hook. He had come through the ranks very quickly after winning the Gold Medal in the heavyweight division at the 1964 Olympics. He hadn’t meant to be in the Olympics at all and only travelled to Tokyo as a reserve to Buster Mathis who had defeated Frazier in the Olympic trials. However, Mathis damaged his thumb in an exhibition match with Frazier and so it was Billy Boy who represented the USA when the games got underway.

     

     

    After those geames he quickly progressed up the professuional ranks and when Ali was stripped of his title he had won 14 straight contests including a win over Oscar Bonavena the tough Argentine ( who would go on to own the best little whorehouse in Texas! ) and perhaps the most impressive fight Frazier ever had– the 4th round TKO of the extremely tough Canadian George Shuvalo who had never been stopped by anyone and who would eventually retire from the ring without ever being knocked down despite facing all of the big hitters. That was a real result.

     

     

    When Ali was stripped of the title, The New York Boxing Board arranged a decider between Joe and old foe Buster Mathis which Joe easily won by knockout in the 11th. By 1970 he had defeated Jimmy Ellis– Like Ali from Louisville Kentucky for the undisputed title. Ellis had won an elimination contest among 8 other boxers for one version of the title– a contest which Frazier had refused to take part in on the advice of managers Yank Durham and Eddie Futch. Ellis could not continue at the start of the 5th round. That was february 1970. He would have one more fight– in November 1970– against light heavyweaight champion Bob Foster (TKO round 5 ) before meeting Ali for the first time the following March.

     

     

    Of course it is the rivalry with Ali that became the great focus of Fraziers career and this was mutch to Joe’s detriment. It overshadowed everything else that he achieved in Boxing and I for one think that this is most unfair.

     

     

    Far more could have been done to enhance Joe’s career but he was managed by the Cloverleaf consortium who would stage and manage all of his fights and look after his wealth– a wealth that he would ultimately lose much of and so be forced into numerous legal battles with former advisers and agents. His management steered him to the titles and avoided some of the pitfalls that both a young and later an ageing Joe might have faced along the way. In My opinion this deprived Joe of several big name scalps.

     

     

    For example he never stepped into the ring with Zora Foley, Ernie Terell, Henry Cooper, Cleveland Williams or Floyd Patterson in coming up the ranks. He may well have beaten all of thes fighters but the risk was never taken by his management. Similarly, after winning the title he avoided the likes of Ken Norton and the dangerous Ernie Shavers, let alone the up and comimg Larry Holmes.

     

     

    By the time Big Bad George lost to Ali in Kinshasa, George was already into his 41st pro fight. He would retire eventually after an incredible 81 fights ( admittedly with a load of bums on the guest list– and a lot of noteable names missing like Holmes and Shavers for example ). Ali would fight a total of 61 times with the three and a half year lay off at his peak ( March 67 -Oct 1970 ) and had fought 5 times in 1966 and had had two bouts by March 67 ( Terrell and Foley ). It could not be said that Ali had avoided anyone– although it could be argued that there are a few later ones he should have!

     

     

    By Contrast Frazier fought a total of just 37 times including only twice after the Thriller in Manilla including an ill fated return to the ring in 1981 against Jumbo Cummings. The other fight was a rematch against Big Bad George which no one ever remembers and where George despatched him in 5 rounds!

     

     

    As I say all of this leaves a focus on the bitter rivalry with Ali. Yet that relationship did not start out as any kind of rivalry at all. Frazier had actively campaigned for Ali’s legal reinstatement to Boxing and had signed petitions to President Nixon in connection with the same. Further, while Ali was still banned and Frazier held one version of the title the two had travelled across parts of America together by car campaigning together and joking about how the two would square up in a fight. Frazier would claim that Ali had never faced anyone who would come forward and in as quickly as Frazier– Ali would counter that he could come in all he wanted but he ( Ali ) would not be there as Frazier had never faced anyone who moved away and countered so quickly!

     

     

    Ali undoubtedly overdid the “ugly” jibes and the “Uncle Tom” references over the years and I would have to say that this was not a pleasant side to the Ali legend. However the fact remains that of the great fighters of the time Frazier was “managed” far more than others yet was far less willing to play his part or come to terms with his given persona in the media merrygoround.

     

     

    He was not as menacing and gangsterlike as Sonny Liston. Not as Brooding as Big Bad George– who after a years long sulk reinvented himself as the happiest smiling big old Boxer the world ever did see! And he was never going to be as charasmatic as the Louisville Lip who went on to be the most famous face on the planet– famous for Boxing, wit, humour, poetry, politics, religeon and in Joe’s eyes for his barbs against Joe and for beating Joe twice.

     

     

    In Joe’s eyes– Joe lost to Ali and Joe lost to George.

     

     

    Yet there was far more to Joe than this. There should have been more fights early on to reflect on and build a career. There should have been more money– but he was robbed of that– and there should have been a honing of the personality of a genuinely good and nice man. Instead Joe became bitter– especially towards Ali. He would say there was no problem at one moment and at another make it plain that he hated Ali and the mention of his name.

     

     

    Personally, I have always believed that the worst thing that ever happened to Joe Frazier was the fact that Ali succumbed to Parkinsons. This robbed both Ali and Joe of that most persuasive of voices. It robbed both of Ali’s ability to hold an audience outside the ring for a prolonged period of time and to make it plain to the whole world that all that Gorilla stuff was just promo material. Compare the relationship between Borg and McEnroe today to the pair at their zenith. The one time Superbrat openly holds Borg up as his one time all time hero, and Borg openly talks about how his former rival played a huge part in bringing him out of severe depression after he had lost both marriage and fortune. That respect and friendship is aired publicly and often. Not so with Frazier and Ali. Ali is not the talkshow draw anymore and Frazier was never that personality.

     

     

    Ali openly became friends with and laid compliments on “our ‘Enery” and would discuss that on TV shows. Such attempts were less successful with Joe.

     

     

    In one documentary, the extent of Joe’s bitterness was revealed by a one time colleague calling Joe’s mobile just to let the public hear Joe’s voice message. Referring to Ali’s difficulties with Parkinsons, you heard Joe’s voice saying:

     

     

    ” Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee?

     

    Look at him now- well that was me!”

     

     

     

    Yet there is little doubt that was not the real Joe Frazier. That was just a man who was wounded by the fact that others in boxing, others in his own camp, had let him down and had left him with a public legacy which was far inferior to his own personal talent and to his own sense of decency. In many ways Joe Frazier was too nice a man to be a Boxer at all– he was not equipped for the dirty tricks needed for outside the ring!

     

     

    Away from the public eye, Joe Frazier was an extremely good father,ensuring an education for his kids ( his daughter became his Lawyer ), was a very generous man to his friends and who raised a lot of money for charity. However deep down he was still Billy Boy—- the big strong lump of a boy who stood up for others against bullies and who made sure that a farmers son called Bellamy knew when to keep his pants on and keep his belt to himeslf!

     

     

    By the way– the Bullies and the Farmer’s son were both White and standing up to them in the late ’50’s and early ’60’s down in South Carolina showed a bravery which was not protected by the Queensbury rules.

     

     

     

    Joe Frazier aka Billy Boy– Heavyweight Boxing champion and anything but an “Uncle Tom”.

  12. Further to my poit about goals from set-piece, the percentage has not dropped below 30% in England over the last 5 seasons.

     

     

    I think we need to sharpen up in this area – and work on organised throw ins – with a decent long throw specialist.

  13. timbhoy2 says:

     

    8 November, 2011 at 13:45

     

     

    big huns support in Corby – they have a big supporters club building too. I posted some video footage (youtube) of it one day, but got moaned at by people on here for suggesting that the people in the video were in some way disabled.

     

     

    Search Corby Rangers on youtube and judge for yourself….. I think I had a point! (it was like playing hunt the brain cell….)