On the road this week so today’s blog is by author Stephen O’Donnell:
Pick the bones out of that! I didn’t see Legia against St. Patrick’s Athletic in the previous qualifying round, but by all accounts they were fairly unimpressive, even in winning 5 – 0 in Dublin. I was even tempted to have a wee bet on Celtic to win by more than one goal on Wednesday night, and by the time my hastily arranged subscription to Premier Sports had come through things were looking good after Callum McGregor’s early strike.
Sadly, it didn’t last. It’s a measure of how poorly Celtic played on the night that they were lucky to escape from Warsaw with a 4 – 1 defeat because, let’s face it, but for Fraser Forster and some wayward penalty taking, it could have been worse.
As expected, it didn’t take long for the Celtic Newsnow stream to start filling up with tales of anguish and pontification from the mainstream media. From AEK Athens to Maribor, the list of European failures at certain other clubs (including one that is now defunct) is long and distinguished, but nothing gets the SMSM in full gloating mode like a painful Celtic defeat on the Continent.
On Wednesday we were reminded about Artmedia Bratislava, Utrecht, Karagandy etc., I even heard Neuchatel Xamax being mentioned at one point. The key of course is that there is no context and analysis provided when these previous losses are dragged up, Celtic supporters simply have to suffer such painful reminders.
This lack of constructive analysis is a pity because there are comparisons and parallels that can be usefully drawn with previous chastening experiences in Europe. It seems that new Celtic managers are particularly vulnerable to them; Tony Mowbray initially enjoyed a successful preseason, including winning the Wembley Cup, but his first competitive game was a 1 – 0 home defeat to Dynamo Moscow. Neil Lennon had Utrecht and Braga, and of course Gordon Strachan had Artmedia.
It’s what happened in Bratislava that I think has most relevance to Wednesday night – a new manager in post, replacing a club legend, trying to introduce a more cerebral approach, a squad clearly divided amongst those who are still pining for the previous incumbent and those who want to move on and embrace the new manager’s methods… the parallels in fact are numerous and really quite striking. Hopefully this is a sign that Ronny, like WGS before him, will turn this early setback around and grow into the role of Celtic manager.
One of the most important aspects of managerial success is the chemistry between the boss and his players. This lack of a connection in the dressing-room and on the training field is the reason John Collins failed at Hibs; it’s why Mowbray didn’t last out a season at Celtic. If the chemistry isn’t right then the team will lack focus, motivation and game intelligence at crucial times in the season, and these traits were all conspicuous by their absence in both Warsaw and Bratislava.
But chemistry takes time, it didn’t come immediately to either Lennon or Strachan, and Ronny Deila still has the opportunity to get his progressive ideas across and win the respect and admiration of his squad. If that happens then, like Lenny and WGS before him, he will go on to lead Celtic to domestic and European success.
In the meantime, there is the second leg still to come. If the parallels with Artmedia and Karagandy are to be heard in the media again then Legia could yet be in for a tough night next week. The tie is most certainly not over and it will slowly be dawning on the players who let themselves down on Wednesday that there is only one way to make up for what happened.
Pride and defiance have to come to the fore again, and the situation is still retrievable. All the ingredients are there for a potentially famous night at Murrayfield next Wednesday.
Follow Stephen O’Donnell on twitter @stephenodauthor
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PeteTheBeat
13:25 on 1 August, 2014
“I think Artmedia make it to the last 16 that year”
They were third in the group and ended up in the EL.
79 caps……
………..10.18
Lennon should have shut up ??!!!……….Did any previous Celtic manager that you know of in history ……even The real duds get a No 2 foisted upon them ??!!!!!………actually told this guy here is going to be your new 2nd in command. …..like it or lump it……..99.9 per cent would say fkt ….!!
Interesting times with Lennon obviously been very popular with the players……so reading through the lines we are going to be left with …….Gordon. Lustig McGregor. Henderson.Johansen. pukki..Berget..flogged……or rid the rest………God help us!!!!
The main hope has to be that Ronny will sit down with the senior players, discusses what works/doesn’t work, and that they all come up with a strategy for Wednesday night that leaves no player in any doubt what his role is.
The 4-4-2 diamond is Celtic’s most successful formation in the last 10 years. It is defensively solid, suits our midfielders, and often results in some terrific attacking football, with last season’s 5-0 away to Motherwell the pinnacle. If we want to get the result we need, it has to be considered.
Madmitch
My concerns are directly opposite to yours. Our defence has the ability (as evidenced) to shut out better than Legia.
I worry about sufficient goalscoring up front to hit 3 or 4 goals. We will need a heavy conversion rate in chances and that’s not Pukki’s game.
I’d be tempted to play a Stokes:Griffiths partnership with Commons in the hole behind them.
West End of East End
12:37 on 1 August, 2014
LiviBhoy – I’m the same as yourself, I go to watch the team, maybe buy the odd pie n bovril now and again and the half time draw but the reason I’m there is to hopefully watch the team win.
We should be talking about the players, the formation etc not about KPI’s of the CEO. It’s the players that are underperforming, wonder what KPI’s they have in their contract.
I don’t hear supporters at the game talking about Peter Lawwell’s bonus structure, maybe it’s only the lapsed supporters on here who are interested about it, if they were ever supporters in the first place.
—
My last post, for your good self.
You don’t hear fellas sitting next to you talking about the impending court case for his wrongly arrested son at Celtic Park. I’ve never heard anyone sitting next to me spend 2 hours singing about how much he loves PL and the board.
You support the entertainment.
I support the Club.
Which is the Supporters first and foremost. Just thought I should point that out to you, before the reduced support increases the statistical chances of you being hustled into an alleyway on your way to CP by three uniformed gentlemen and a cameraman, leading to an accidental choking on your home-made prawn sandwich.
Big Wavy
You dismiss the experience a player gains playing at the top level too readily
I accept that great players don’t necessarily make great managers
I guess my point was
Lenny was a top grade CFC player and was given time ….
WGS …an experienced manager and sorted it out
Barnes was a fantasist who made a horlicks if it …
Which one will Deila be ??
Just shooting the breeze ….it’s not any form of study I’ve undertaken
So are we now throwing into the mix, along with the kitchen sink, the decision to host the CW opening ceremony and all the associated investment for the ground that will last generations ?
Some times we really don’t act like a big club support.
Big Wavy
How does a big club support act ??
“The board has to shoulder some blame”.
“There is a lack of investment in the team”.
Not my words, Neil Lennon’s.
The club is downsizing. Unable to sell 50% of the SB’s it could sell 10 – 15 years ago. That’s not just about recessions or the death of Rangers, it’s about the quality of the team. The lack of quality is a consequence of Moneyball. The fans are drifting away. They are disenchanted with the Board’s stated ambition to sell it’s best players. Ronnie can’t wait to drive them to the airport! Maybe Ronnie & JC are the right men for the job just now. They have been tasked with accelerating youth development and Ronnie appears to have an excellent track record on that front. But given that the club is so financially robust is it any wonder that everyone from Neil Lennon downwards is wondering when the fiscal stranglehold will be loosened?
Neil Lennon. A true Celtic hero. A man who bleeds green. Why is he wandering around wondering what the future holds? Why has he walked away from the Club he loves and the job he was honoured to have? And why is Samaras no longer here? What was that all about on the pitch after the cup final? Why did JC reportedly feel the need to seek assurances about control of the football operation of the business before agreeing to accept the job offer? Does The Pistol wield too much power for the health of the team?
Why does CQN no longer ask these difficult questions? Father Paul’s daily sermons have read more like The View for years now. He is a devotee of Moneyball, which is fine, but are the board implementing this policy as well as they should? Moneyball, by definition means that you are perpetually in the development phase of a team without ever finishing the job. When the top guy leaves for a kings ransom the next guy should be ready to step right into his shoes. Where is our new Wanyama, Hooper, Ledley or Samaras? Perhaps Ronnie will put that right given time. But will he be given time?
Now that Champions League money has gone (and realistically it has), the Board will tell us how clever they have been looking after the pennies for this rainy day. A rainy day that they have engineered through a lack of investment! They will then go and sell Fraser and Virgil anyway!!
No doubt Fr Paul’s adoring flock of succulent lambs will now don their green tinted glasses and vent their fury. If you’re off message on this blog woe betide you. Criticism of the Club or of “Sir Paul” is never tolerated. It was once a feature of the blog but that was a long time ago.
Nowadays, the cast of CQN golf days are happier forming a guard of honour down Celtic Way on flag day, in readiness for the arrival of Emperor Lawell…to a half empty stadium.
There is a lack of objectivity these days. There is also a lack of tolerance, and a lack of manners and respect, which stifles healthy debate. CQN has gone soft on Celtic plc.
On a more conciliatory note, Paul67, If I had the power I’d offer you an OBE for the spectacular success of the charity work that has sprung from CQN. Credit where it’s due.
Acgr,
Try the polar bears den, it might be on there but don’t wear green…:))
We were so comprehensively beaten by Legia that I cannot see us turning that around, more especially with the game being at Murrayfield.
I’m usually happy to clap but my flabber will be truly gasted if we do it.
And guys, it’s not Delia, it’s Deila.
Syd Negakev
And guys, it’s not Delia, it’s Deila.
Let’s having be you!!!
SFTB, great post – voice of reason, as ever.
I’m still angry and dismayed over that horror show on Wednesday. The players let us down very badly and they owe it to us to give every last ounce next week to try to retrieve it. I’m not optimistic. Roughly this time last year I was quietly confident that we would overturn the 0-2 deficit against Karagandy. We had dominated the game over there for long periods and it was a bit of a freak result. You could see that they were a poor team. Legia are not a great side but they are certainly a good bit better than the Kazakhs. They will park the bus at Murrayfield and it looks like they will have thousands of their own fans there to give them noisy encouragement.
I will go with hope but little expectation. If we get a goal in the first half without conceding then we’ll see what their bottle is like. I urge every Celtic supporter who can make it to go to the game and get right behind the team even though the odds are stacked against us. Stranger things have happened.
PFAYR
John Barnes had the best CV of all 3 managers you mentioned. He was arguably as experienced a manager as Lennon.
The idea that Barnes failed and Lennon didn’t had no correlation to the issue of ‘experienced’ careers to date.
I think it was done to a lack of emotional intelligence from Barnes, a lack of pragmatism, plan b, etc – leadership skills he was learning (or not). Ronny has done that, although on a smaller scale so his task will be the spotlight he comes under from fans and media alike to succeed at our club. He’ll know exactly how that feels on the back of ONE bad defeat. I’m hoping he is learning and I hope we give him the chance to succeed.
Equally shooting the breeze fella. And enjoying it sir. Beats the self-defeating politics stuff that makes my shred dies milk curdle.
….PFayr supports WeeOscar
13:13 on
1 August, 2014
Latchford
We were worse off than last season
Brown injured ….why not try and get a loan signing in to cover him
Sammi…our best and only CL class forward …gone and not replaced
We signed another goalkeeper…like we need three keepers….FFS replacement …more like
Shambles
____________________________________________________________________
we signed another goalkeeper on a free to replace FF when he is sold in the next couple of weeks
anotherfewmillionsafelybankedCSC
PF Ayr
I know we haven’t always seen eye to eye…..
But “champagne football with lager players”
Spot on.
CELTIC’S £1.5million misfit Amido Balde is a target for SK Lokeren.
The Portuguese striker, who joined from Vitoria Guimaraes a year ago, looks poised to follow former team-mate Tony Watt to Belgium.
Balde has failed to make an immediate impact on new boss Ronny Deila and is likely to be on his way.
The 23-year-old scored only three goals from a handful of starts and was used mainly as a substitute by ex-gaffer Neil Lennon.
If SK Lokeren can match the Hoops’ initial outlay Balde will be on his way.
Celtic received £1.2million from Standard Liege for Watt, 20, earlier in the week.
“Unable to sell 50% of the SB’s it could sell 10 – 15 years ago.”
We have sold 40,000 this year. Did we used to sell 80,000? I must have missed that.
….PFayr supports WeeOscar 13:38 on 1 August, 2014
Big Wavy
“How does a big club support act ??”
Some people try and keep things in perspective, others act like defeat is the end of the world.
That applies to football fans in general, not just those who support big clubs.
How does a big club support act ??
Recognising that as the pre-eminent club in Scotland we lead the way to help put the country on the map internationally. Lending out our wonderful stadium was a no brainer, showcasing it in that way to 1 billion people with the words Celtic evident was equally the right thing to do.
The pettiness amongst some to NOT wanting to do this in a lifetime event smacks of a little club mentality where we are both fearful of change in routine or unwilling to take up this leadership role.
Here is the invite code to the EPL CQN Championship Fantasy Football League, we are now approaching 30 teams entered.
296638-123206
You have 15 days left to register your team & join the league.
http://fantasy.premierleague.com/
As an added incentive I’ve decided to offer some prizes for the top 3 come the end of the season. The winners will each receive items of their choosing from the Official Celtic Webstore to the tune of
1st £100
2nd £75
3rd £50
Or alternatively, winners can choose to donate any winnings to a Celtic charity of their choice.
Also if by some miracle I end up in the top 3, the winnings will be passed onto the next placed team.
HH
SFTB @ 13:06
Another excellent post. In my mind, all Celtic supporters are as rational and objective as your posts suggest you are . I am more and more haveing to accept that our `best supporters in the world` are, in fact, no different from any others. Reality is a bugger 0:-)
JJ
Money back for Balde…I’ll give him a lift to Belgium …masel
The huge difference between Warsaw and every other large defeat was that we were so unprepared for Warsaw that I can’t see us even winning the home leg. The players didn’t even know the basics of defending. Against Artmedia we had recently lost McNamara and our defense was unsettled. We didn’t have that excuse on Wednesday.
As for blaming the board, the current Celtic squad cost a lot more than Legia. This is all down to the manager and his inability to prepare a team for an away game in Europe.
I hope to Henrik that this was a one off or we’re in for a long season.
Could be worse though.
MisterTaximan
I think our host Paul67 deserves a little bit more respect than the Fr Paul jibes for making this blog happen sir. Never met him but he’s been defending this board lackey nonsense for a loot longer than I would have tolerated.
Good shout on the charity stuff though.
Big Wavy
Fans are just fed up …no CL football is a disaster …
Unhappiness causes folk to moan about anything and everything
Playing at murrayfield would be of little concern if we hadn’t have gotten stuffed on Wednesday
acgr
or the snow leopards lounge, don’t mention the lions !
Celtic at their best should be capable of beating Legia 3 nil but last weeks performance both by the Manager & Team has shaken my confidence to the core. I’m genuinely worried as to what team he selects and what formation he goes with. We need goals but we also need a clean sheet.
Personally I would start the tie as if it was a totally new game and try and win first half one nil. If we need to we can throw caution to the wind in the last 20 minutes. If we go gung ho from the start and concede on a counter its game over.
My mistake…it wasn’t a cup final of course it was trophy day. And for the benefit of clarity, my reference to Sammy concerned the conflicting statements from Sammy himself and from NL about Sammy’s contract situation.
PFayr
Murrayfield then becomes a symptom of our collective depression, not the cause of it.
And this place is utterly mental, like the hormonal rushes of a spotty teenager, a 3-0 win on wednesday will have people talk about a last 16 place and Berget a £20m player :)
big wavy…I have the utmost respect for Paul67 and all that he has done in the last ten years. Just to be clear about that. Doesn’t mean that criticism should be off limits though.
Pretty good article from Paul’s stand in. One thing that caught my attention was this…
…”One of the most important aspects of managerial success is the chemistry between the boss and his players. This lack of a connection in the dressing-room and on the training field is the reason John Collins failed at Hibs”
I’ve always found Collins comes across a bit arrogant when he discusses football. He seems to have that air about him that he knows better than everyone else. I have a nagging feeling that Collins is not going to work out because of it.
Big Wavy
Last 16 maybe …but Berget is guff :-))))
FFM – I’m the only conspiracy theorist in the village)
I do not see us turning this around. I think the tie has gone. Nobody will be happier than me though if we can pull it off at Murrayfield. I pray I am watching another special European night involving Celtic when I take my seat next week. I have to be honest after watching the first leg though just as I was after watching Karagandy. I hope JC has the squad watching our reversal of Cologne from the 90’s because they looked miles ahead of us first game and we turned them over on the night at Paradise. Probably a very good marker on what we have to do next week. I just can;t see us not conceding.
LB
“There is a lack of objectivity these days. There is also a lack of tolerance, and a lack of manners and respect”
I laughed at that, coming as it did at the end of an ill-mannered and subjective, disrespectful rant. Hey, I least I read it.
West End of East End
12:37 on 1 August, 2014
LiviBhoy – I’m the same as yourself, I go to watch the team, maybe buy the odd pie n bovril now and again and the half time draw but the reason I’m there is to hopefully watch the team win.
We should be talking about the players, the formation etc not about KPI’s of the CEO. It’s the players that are underperforming, wonder what KPI’s they have in their contract.
I don’t hear supporters at the game talking about Peter Lawwell’s bonus structure, maybe it’s only the lapsed supporters on here who are interested about it, if they were ever supporters in the first place.
————————————————————————
I’m interested in all aspects of Celtic – including how the club is run and whether or not the pies are good. The discussion around CEO performance was in the context of whether there is a direct correlation between his bonus and how we spend money on the pitch. I’m not sure how you infer that this kind of discussion somehow makes me a “lapsed” supporter or no kind of supporter at all. I didn’t feel too “lapsed” at Murrayfield last week where, incidentally, the catering was very good.
Care to explain your logic?
HEINEKEN reaches the parts of zombies other beers prefer not to.
Mistertaximan
Self-defeating really. Debate good but don’t take the man. I personally stopped reading once I seen you’d taken the personal attack route.
Something to think about perhaps.