On the road this week so today’s blog is by author Stephen O’Donnell:
Pick the bones out of that! I didn’t see Legia against St. Patrick’s Athletic in the previous qualifying round, but by all accounts they were fairly unimpressive, even in winning 5 – 0 in Dublin. I was even tempted to have a wee bet on Celtic to win by more than one goal on Wednesday night, and by the time my hastily arranged subscription to Premier Sports had come through things were looking good after Callum McGregor’s early strike.
Sadly, it didn’t last. It’s a measure of how poorly Celtic played on the night that they were lucky to escape from Warsaw with a 4 – 1 defeat because, let’s face it, but for Fraser Forster and some wayward penalty taking, it could have been worse.
As expected, it didn’t take long for the Celtic Newsnow stream to start filling up with tales of anguish and pontification from the mainstream media. From AEK Athens to Maribor, the list of European failures at certain other clubs (including one that is now defunct) is long and distinguished, but nothing gets the SMSM in full gloating mode like a painful Celtic defeat on the Continent.
On Wednesday we were reminded about Artmedia Bratislava, Utrecht, Karagandy etc., I even heard Neuchatel Xamax being mentioned at one point. The key of course is that there is no context and analysis provided when these previous losses are dragged up, Celtic supporters simply have to suffer such painful reminders.
This lack of constructive analysis is a pity because there are comparisons and parallels that can be usefully drawn with previous chastening experiences in Europe. It seems that new Celtic managers are particularly vulnerable to them; Tony Mowbray initially enjoyed a successful preseason, including winning the Wembley Cup, but his first competitive game was a 1 – 0 home defeat to Dynamo Moscow. Neil Lennon had Utrecht and Braga, and of course Gordon Strachan had Artmedia.
It’s what happened in Bratislava that I think has most relevance to Wednesday night – a new manager in post, replacing a club legend, trying to introduce a more cerebral approach, a squad clearly divided amongst those who are still pining for the previous incumbent and those who want to move on and embrace the new manager’s methods… the parallels in fact are numerous and really quite striking. Hopefully this is a sign that Ronny, like WGS before him, will turn this early setback around and grow into the role of Celtic manager.
One of the most important aspects of managerial success is the chemistry between the boss and his players. This lack of a connection in the dressing-room and on the training field is the reason John Collins failed at Hibs; it’s why Mowbray didn’t last out a season at Celtic. If the chemistry isn’t right then the team will lack focus, motivation and game intelligence at crucial times in the season, and these traits were all conspicuous by their absence in both Warsaw and Bratislava.
But chemistry takes time, it didn’t come immediately to either Lennon or Strachan, and Ronny Deila still has the opportunity to get his progressive ideas across and win the respect and admiration of his squad. If that happens then, like Lenny and WGS before him, he will go on to lead Celtic to domestic and European success.
In the meantime, there is the second leg still to come. If the parallels with Artmedia and Karagandy are to be heard in the media again then Legia could yet be in for a tough night next week. The tie is most certainly not over and it will slowly be dawning on the players who let themselves down on Wednesday that there is only one way to make up for what happened.
Pride and defiance have to come to the fore again, and the situation is still retrievable. All the ingredients are there for a potentially famous night at Murrayfield next Wednesday.
Follow Stephen O’Donnell on twitter @stephenodauthor
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Lennybhoy 15.10…….Not surprised seeing as Scottish football is at it,s lowest ebb ever with no Hibs, Hearts or Rangers.
Here it is:
A Ceiler Gonof Rust
15:20 on
1 August, 2014
Hebcelt, prepare to be amazed:-) JJ, is on the case with McGinley`s pub anchorage.
Hoops ya bass
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Mick — sure didn’t you know?
McGinleys have pubs everywhere!!!!
Thank God!
SFTB
The point I was making is that in setting out our spend budget, then each year we should be aiming to improve the team by buying in or developing a star man annually.
I know, easier said than done especially in our climate and our budget, but it is not something that is prioritised in our current approach.
Also, I hope you are right about winning the league and logic says we should, but in all truth Celtic were so bad for 70 minutes the other night that 11 CQN’ers would have beaten them if properly coached.
@Brogan Rovan Trevino
A star man annually adds up in wages.
3 goals and we’re through.
It’s a scientific fact. Don’t blame me for being good at science. It’s probably genetic. Or something.
U
hankray
There is a great buzz around Aberdeen, Dundee United, Dundee and St Johnstone, amongst others, where ticket sales have been on the rise since last year.
Dundee Utd for example put a season ticket counter on their website a month or so ago, it was a countdown of the number of season books they had to sell to reach their highest ever figure for season book sales. At the time it was over 1000 not it is 112.
Aberdeen fans we know about and they have been flocking back. Dundee have limited availability in many areas of their ground following a sell out(~12k) for their last league game last season.
The predictions of armageddon have been well wide of the mark.
I wouldn’t be too despondent given the above – the Edinburgh clubs will also come back reinvigorated, two clubs with great potential but badly mismanaged.
We will continue to lord it over them however;)
HH
Sftb,
I realise what you are saying and the transfer market is haywire due to the influx of money from the tv moguls.
We as a club have to be prudent, as we have seen how others have been put to the sword.
What I would prefare to see is….rather than speculating on the chance we can accumulate, go for a proven player even if he is coming to the end of his career.
I’m not talking about Keanes and such, looking for a swan song, there must be players out there with atleast three years left in them that could enhance our team and bring their experiance to the younger team members.
We have no spine to our team at the moment other than broonie, no one with the experiance on the park to pull the younger players together when the going gets tough…ie Wednesday.
PFayr
accounts! Eff the accounts!
How much does PL’s bonus relate to playing success and income from competition success over player sales profit?
MWD says AYE
BRT & H
Of course we will win the league- look at the bookies odds.
Trying to buy a star player is all well and good. It may be a useful marketing tool in shifting SB tickets but any rational manager wants to build a functional team and a squad with some depth to cover the entirely predictable problems of injury, suspension and loss of form, in trying to win a league.
A £5m expenditure on your striker means looking for two full backs at 500k each rather than £1m each. Your spend still has to balance. We can be critical and say that PL is an accountant and not an entrepreneur just as we said NFL’s team was moulded in his likeness (not a point, I’d accept BTW) but David Murray was an entrepreneur and not an accountant. Balance, balance and more balance is always needed. There’s a time to stick and a time to twist.
A £5m striker.
A move to the MLS
A 25k stadium for the reserves.
They are all growth ideas. They are all examples of Twist strategies, whereas PL, DD and myself seem to favour Stick strategies.
Either with Stick or Twist, we, and clubs like us, are not winning CL anytime soon. I do think we might try to enjoy things along the way to this inevitability. So let’s support the standing area. Let’s support fun supporting. Let’s re-structure seating so that a couple of sections are first come first seated and you can watch with your mates again. There are things we can do to have fun while we “fail and lack ambition”
Have to go
So what do we do tomorrow?
Say feck it and play a very attack minded team that we will start with next week to see if it works, or rest our first team that will play Wednesday?
sipsini
I am fine with that suggestion.
However the likes of Hangeland and Seedorf and Xavi are out of our range. Any ideas who would fit the bill?
Catch your replies later.
I liked that young Legia player , supposedly dubbed the next Messie. He left four of our defenders for dead near the end. Any chance of getting him to join us?
Timaloy
Presumably the sale fee of Victor Wanyama would pay a few wages covering a couple of years.
If you aim the bar higher in terms of class you get better sell on fees.
However, buying and selling is not the be all and end all — it is the management of the club and aspirations.
Now in terms of income generation Celtic may well be far smarter in 24 months by using far more modern marketing techniques, embracing technology more readily and using the latest developments in social media as a business tool.
Lots to think about and discuss at some point.
Moonbeams WD. Wee Oscar’s our Bhoy and Kano’s our mhan.
16:26 on 1 August, 2014
PFayr
accounts! Eff the accounts!
How much does PL’s bonus relate to playing success and income from competition success over player sales profit?
MWD says AYE
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Careful mate – I started examining that issue earlier today and was accused of being a “lapsed” supperter. Whatever that is!
TBB
big Turkey lots of guests. When the uninitiated and uninformed started begging for more stuffing I admit to getting worried. Three hours of giggles and if a couple of greedy guests who will rename nameless took my advice they would not have flaked out before the end of the Bond film.
I had to own up when a boyfriend of one of my friends was found in the toilet with his shirt pulled up to his oxters pressing his belly against the tiles proclaimg “oh man this is lovely and cool”
Everybody had a good time. Everybody let their hair down. I got some jip at the post mortem about the night previous the next day, But was förgiven a week later once I developed the photies.
Merry Christmas
Looking at the mid-longer term prospects for Ronny’s tenure, the EL will be a better option. That of course excludes this year’s finances prospects. The CL would most likely see us horsed time after time, with a greater number of disenchanted supporters.
We won’t sell a Victor Wanyama every year. Fact is, neither big Vic or Hooper have been a hit down south. Victor has had injury problems and hasn’t been a total disaster like Hooper but I don’t think anybody will be trying to snap him up from Southampton like his teammates. Especially not at the money he was purchased for.
It’s been disappointing and doesn’t bode well for future sales.
Hopefully this displays properly…….
In the last 4 seasons we have accumulated a profit of between £18-£19 million pounds in our transfer activity. I have taken these figures from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Celtic_F.C._seasons
and while some of the amounts quoted, on Boerrigter’s transfer for example, can be disputed I think they are relatively accurate to the published figures by the club. I was interested in looking back the last few seasons to see what our profit/loss was over the last few years. I have excluded any free transfers & loans so bare in mind any money we paid for loan additions have to be factored in. I thought the info was worth posting to the blog.
2010-2011
Players in £9.8 million Players out £16.4 million Profit £6.6 million
Murphy £800k McManus £1.5 million
Juarez £3 million Boruc £1.7 million
Hooper £2.4 million Ferry £175k
Kayal £1.2 million Caddis £175k
Izaguirre £600k McGeady £9.5 million
Stokes £1.2 million Sheridan £300k
Watt £100k Fortune £2.5 million
Commons £300k Crosas £300k
2011-2012
Players in £3.1 million Players out £2.85 million Loss £250,000
Wanyama £900k Maloney £250k
Bangura £2.2 million Islam £300k
Hooiveld £1.5 million
2012-2013
Players in £3.9 million Players out £8.5 million Profit £4.6 million
Forster £2.5 million Juarez £1.9 million
Ambrose £1.5 million Rasmussen £250k
Rogic £400k Ki £6 million
2013-2014
Players in £11.6 million Players out £20.5 million Profit £8.9 million
Baldé £1.8 million Wanyama £12.5 million
Van Dijk £2.6 million Hooper £5.5 million
Boerrigter £1 million Wilson £2.5 million
Biton £700,000
Pukki £2.4 million
Friðjónsson £100,000
Johansen £2 million
Griffiths £1 million
DBBIA – if you’re about. This looks like something you might enjoy
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2014/aug/01/samsung-sideliner-crowd-technology-sydney-video?CMP=twt_gu
Why are we playing Spurs in Finland ? Embdae? To make 50 grand ? PL thinks we are the Harlem Globetrotters, the team should be getting drilled by the manager, to try and get some sort of team shape for Wednesday
timaloy29
Victor done very well before his injury.
£10m is chicken feed to EPL clubs and gold dust for us.
An average English player in that league is now available for around £20m.
LB
Damn! didnt display properly :(
The first name is the player transferred in, the second is the player transferred out
Big wavy
just on and read your legia v artmedia post,
Marshall was in goal that night and no way is FF a better keeper than AB…
back off again..
hail hail..8)
Traditionalist88……thanks for the words of encouragement
Has anyone else lost interest in the transfer window, as the chances of us doing something to grab our attention days, seem to have gone.
hopeitchangessoonCSC
LiviBhoy
Vic had a mixed season before injury. Michael Cox of Zonal Marking described him as having one of the worst performances he had seen. He had lost his place in the team at one point to Jack Cork (a good player granted). He also had put some decent performances in.
Nobody had paid that kind of money for an SPL player before and it hasn’t been a riproaring success (though he may come good still)
But buyer confidence cannot be so great. At least Fraser is English. Might get a few more bob for him.
!!Bada Bing!!
16:37 on
1 August, 2014
Why are we playing Spurs in Finland ? Embdae? To make 50 grand ? PL thinks we are the Harlem Globetrotters, the team should be getting drilled by the manager, to try and get some sort of team shape for Wednesday
*hmmm the only 1st team players going are Pukki as it’s a home game for him, Efe as he’s out of the 2nd game and Gordon and that’s just to give him game time….anything else tae bit8h about.
slight error on the 2012-2013 season, it should read
2012-2013
Players in £4.4 million Players out £8.15 million Profit £3.85 million
Bhoylo83
15:37 on
1 August, 2014
Happy Friday CQN!
Is Just another Tim on today?
I think it was him who set up the EPL Fantasy League and was looking for his code??
Ta
B-)
He posted it again about the end of page 2
timaloy29
We will agree to disagree. I don;t watch a lot of English fitba but reading the Saints message board after a dozen games the fans were raving about Victor.
LB
Here’s the fantasy league code for whoever is looking for it
296638-123206
JJ
HOOOOOOPY Birthday(I think) :))))))
Thought I saw it on last post.
Till later all
5 hrs waiting on a prescription being issued for a 79 yr old woman from last night ,then told doctor wont give it till he has seen her, phone before 10 on Monday morning to arrange a home visit as she is house bound :((((
Sorry for the moan
The Left hand disnae know whit the right hand is doing
tontine tim- erse.
It’s the wee things that make me smile most :)))
LiviBhoy
15:37 on 1 August, 2014
traditionalist88
The biggest issue for people not attending is cost. Almost £30 for an SPFL match is about a tenner too expensive. When we had a sold out ground it was about £20. Everything has gone up since the days we filled our ground weekly except the wages of the fans.
========
Been saying that for a long time now.
There is too much talk of ‘the product’ and quality of football, ‘downsizing’ etc I know a lot of Celtic supporters. Those who are not going are not citing ‘the product’, or Peter Lawwell or anything else.
A small minority may be so self controlled that they can deprive themselves of their Celtic ‘hit’ on account of their objection to the suits in the South Stand or on the racing and golf courses of Ireland – fair play to their principled stand. But for most, if they had the dough, if they didn’t have the commitments to work or family – they’d be at the game more often than not.
For the record, I do occasionally look at the Youtube clips of Celtic games from the past – and I am not convinced that ‘the product’ was much better in, for example, the 80’s, when we had some really good players – legends in fact. But there was a fair amount of rubbish opposition and a fair amount of terrible defending from the men in Hoops – not to mention quite a lot of disjointed headless chicken displays in Europe. I also remember being at games in the mid 80’s before the emergence of Debt Fuelled underachievement in Govan, and standing in crowds of a similar size to those we get now for league matches – maybe even smaller.
Oddly enough, there was a lot of unemployment and wage stagnation then.
If it ain’t politics then it’s usually economics.
Product? No, it’s not a ‘product’ anyway. It’s Celtic Football Club – if it’s in you, it’s not easily walked away from. But when family finances dictate – the only thing that comes before Celtic for a lot of people – selective attendance is the default for most of us.
Hankray…..he didn’t leave four of our defenders for dead, he left Izzy for dead four times in about five seconds!!
latchford
13:00 on
1 August, 2014
Pretty well agreed with what you posted.
Problem is that over the years PL and DD have failed to take on Board that qualification for CL is sometimes by the skin of our teeth.
I have already kicked the nuts out of it but planning for July qualifiers should take place in January.
The inclusion on Wednesday night of a player who hardly knew the name of his team mates just about sums up where we are.
The only thing Ronny has going for him is that it could be ayear before he has to provide answer against THEM.
To contextualise the above the part of the 80’s I refer to was when the Dandy Dons and the Araby Arabs were our main rivals (in the strictest sporting sense)……. not the gash we became post 1988….