We have spoken before that preliminary positions are being established ahead of the much-anticipated outcome of HM Revenue and Customs tribunal against Rangers with the possibility that, in the event the decision goes in favour of HMRC, the company could go into liquidation. This weekend brought a fresh attempt to pitch a positive scenario in favour of Rangers.
One newspaper sought solace in the case Parma, stating that the Italian club was allowed to re-emerge in Serie A after going out of business in 2004.
Unfortunately this is a complete misrepresentation of the facts, as far as Parma is concerned, precedent points to an entirely different outcome. Parma went into administration on 28 April 2004 after Parmalat, the dairy company which owned a majority of their shares, also went into administration. Parma remained in administration for three years before emerging after a successful restructuring of their debts. The club was then bought by a new company – but crucially – continuity of football operations was possible because there was no liquidation and debts were restructured in a way consistent with prevailing administration laws, that allowed a company to continue trading.
This, however, is not the end of the precedent Parma can offer Neil Doncaster and his SPL board. In 1968 AC Parma went into liquidation and disappeared from existence. They are an ex-football club, to use a phrase I can see creeping into the local lexicon soon.
Shortly after the failure and permanent disappearance of AC Parma, another club, AC Parmense, who were newly promoted into Sere D, changed their livery to match their better known former-neighbours and changed name to AC Parma. It was this club, AC Parma-formerly-known-as-AC Parmenese, who were promoted through the divisions and went on to win three European trophies.
Precedent from Italy is clear: if a large SPL club is liquidated an opportunity exists for Clyde FC to change their name, ditch the white shirts, rent a large, vacant, stadium and try to work their way through the leagues. Just as Airdrie United-formerly-known-as-Clydebank, are attempting to do.
There are no free tickets to the elite level of Scottish football.
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1,018 Comments- Pages:
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Declan…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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Brilliant Son…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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truth4767 says:
23 January, 2012 at 12:09
Truth, in all seriousness, what penalties do you think would be fair and acceptable if HMRC win this case and RFC go into liquidation.
Declan
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Yeah none of us know better than Jabba, Keevins or the Sunday Post
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
sorry MWDs but I think that was required.
RogueLeader
In the event of a liquidation event would HMRC not have the right to sell iPox in light of the monies due??
Hail Hail
TBhoy
paulsatim is neil lennon 23 January, 2012 at 12:35:
Cobra beer is a good example. The company’s assets were pre packed to Coors. As far as I know you can still buy Cobra with the same label, same taste.
Oops here’s another one, they’re determined to ruin my birthday now!!!
Another great posting James F.
On a separate, but related point:
I find one of the most depressing (though not surprising to you or me) aspects to the latest piece from Traynor, to be that it is merely indicative of the constant pro-Rangers bias of the Scottish football scene: the mere fact that the nation’s top selling daily rag sees fit to peddle this line says it all.
Are we, the Celtic blogerati, the only ones able to see what is going on here?
So far, has there been a single voice in the mainstream media which has suggested that (assuming Rangers lose the big tax case) the scale of the misdemeanours would require a punishment to fit the crime … ?
FF
bournesouprecipe says:
23 January, 2012 at 12:16
The Broony Guide
Via starry plough
A wee tutorial for all the huns currently lurking on CQN so they can really understand what is going on with THEIR club..
Here’s a question.
Does anyone know what average attendances were for newly promoted teams to the SPL in the season BEFORE they got here? When they were in a battle for that promotion spot?
My old man thinks Dunfermline’s average attendance has DROPPED since they became an SPL club … and why? No chance of success.
The Keevins argument, that average attendances in the league would not rise if Rangers were not in it is patent nonsense. You guys who have already posted attendance related stuff – brilliant work – are bang on.
fae the gimp
We are on our uppers, Hearts future is shaky, Aberdeen are millions in debt, so are Dundee Utd, Hibernian are the same and could be relegated and I would suggest that any pan European League or British league (which will happen someday) is years off.
____________________________________________________
Wonder what caused these teams to be in debt,could it have been
trying to keep up with the millionaires from ipox spending the taxpayers money,trying to chase the dream of winning the big cup.
Now you want a free pass and sympathy,hope your
rotten team rots in hell.
moonbeams – i dont think it is funny. there are guys who know their tomatoes about scottish football who cant get a job in the press just now. guys like that david leggit. he is like a walking book of scottish football and he cant get a job. same with spears he had to go and be a freelaunch jurnalist. they wouldnt put anything in the paper that wasnae true, they arent allowed to
This is the funniest best laugh I’ve had in eons…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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Snake…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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MWD
Declan
Celtic supporters are never “loyal”
Oops wee slip me thinks.
First….4767.
Now….Declan.
Another Mike and Bernie Winters at the Empire moment.
Oh Christ,there’s two of them…….
truth4767 – I have no personal desire to see Rangers cease to be, although if that happened it would be time to laugh.
I do enjoy it when we beat your team and I look forward to more of that in the future.
However, while I don’t wish any specific harm on your club, I do feel strongly that the rules must be upheld.
Rangers are the spoilt children of Scottish football. Decades of the authorities bending over backwards to accommodate your club has created a toxic mentality among the bears, so it’s no wonder a lot (most?) of your fans expect a New Rangers to be allowed to simply inhabit the corpse of the old Rangers, with no penalty attached or having to pay your dues by working your way up through the leagues.
If we allow this parasitical behaviour to prosper we will get more of it.
Hearts and God-knows-how-many other clubs would quickly liquidate to escape their debts if Rangers get away with it. The league would become a shambling parade of zombie clubs. There would be nothing to stop clubs from repeatedly bankrupting themselves whenever it suited them to cheat their creditors. Any credibility that remains in Scottish football would be gone forever.
So I suggest that if Rangers FC dies, and some new club springs up bearing a similar name, New Rangers FC should have the dignity and self-respect to work its way up to the SPL through its own merits. Show off some of that Protestant Work Ethic and all that.
Three or four seasons of beating lower league teams would do New Rangers no harm whatsoever, and would do a lot of good for the game in Scotland. (thumbsup)
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS says:
23 January, 2012 at 12:25
Thanks & I agree.
I have a horrible taste in my mouth, for some strange reason things like this end up having an big impact on how I feel – think I might go home early.
Thanks for the supporting texts HT – can’t believe you’re 50 today!!! You don’t even look 45.
hh
bjmac
I wish Dr Reid was still around for this fight.
James Forrest @ 12:45
Try : http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm
Dunfermline this year, up 31%
ICT up last year, up 29%
hamiltontim says:
Happy Birthday Mate, you share your birthday with Joe Ledley and Mrs Starry..
All the best…
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAMILTON TIM
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAPPY BIRTHDAY
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Declan…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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Don’t…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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Ma stomached…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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Bjmac
Ya cheeky bizzum.
I had an extraordinarily tough paper round :-))
HAMILTON TIM
MANY HAPPY RETURNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hear BADA BING is on standby to come out of retirement if your cake has got candles on it…………
I think we should stay quiet on the NEWco front. Let them believe that it is happening. Let them believe that a Newco is the way forward while we stay very quiet. As soon as Newco is starting to be arranged … UEFA will step in… they have to. Basically all linkage between financial responsibility and sport will have been officially eradicated. The precedent of not only avoiding to pay your taxes and your bills but even your own shareholders while making a handsome profit will be established. UEFA will step in at that point it has far too much to lose. It does not want government or court intervention but if it approves this “proposed” newco deal then it stands to lose too much autonomy.
I think its a case of clearing out the whole Scottish game of the mafia for the mediocre by letting their tiny minds run riot.
I think it is fantasy that will never be achieved in reality but could be really useful to us achieving our reality (of obtaining an even playing field – how very dare we) and could well be the modernising shot in the arm that teh game in Scotland needs.
Let the Dinosaurs walk themselves into complete extinction.
Never interrupt your enemy while they are making mistakes.
When all of the truth comes out.
When we see how much Rangers are truly indebted.
When we see how much Craig Whyte stands to make from this action
When see how little Sir David Murray will be punished for his crimes and the head of the SFA ;-)
Then will be the time to speak out about such a nonsense proposal.
Hail Hail
Paul67 et al
This Parrot is no more.
FFS!!
Declan is back, I wonder how many times he will catch himself out with his lies this time…
HAmiltontim
thought you were a pensioner buddy ;-)
Happy Birthday
Good man Paul 67
Heart felt thanks to you and others like you who do the research into these things and give us the real truth not the scottish ‘media’ spin.
Every angle the hun media have tried to put forward so far for saving the establishment club has been shown up for what it is by people like yourself.
Keep it up, we cannot let these bunch of cheats (could use other words but it is a family friendly blog) get away with years of financially crippling the rest of scottish football ILLEGALLY to keep themselves at the top
Hail Hail
The Broony Guide
a starry plough favourite
SFA announce next years Scottish Cup Final is on a Sunday.
p
Declan Is Neil Lennon 1888 Hates being 2nd says:
23 January, 2012 at 12:46
moonbeams – i dont think it is funny. there are guys who know their tomatoes about scottish football who cant get a job in the press just now. guys like that david leggit. he is like a walking book of scottish football and he cant get a job. same with spears he had to go and be a freelaunch jurnalist. they wouldnt put anything in the paper that wasnae true, they arent allowed to
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priceless,esp the bit about Legless Leggatt.
All he needed for the full set was a suggestion that Jeff Winter be put in charge of sorting out the referees….
bournesouprecipe says:
23 January, 2012 at 12:52
Jist canny multi task Bourne, a mans work is never done!!
a never went anywhere
I think its only fair, a la Farsley Celtic, that any team, ie Newco, cannot take the name of the former club, BUT for the sake of their supporters, they should be allowed to name their team as close to the old name as possible, just so they have some sort of associated link. With that idea in mind I would suggest they can call their new club exactly the same as the old one BAR one letter. May I propose the new team name for Rangers……………BANGERS….maks sense ta me….
Seems truth has moved onto the acceptance stage !!1!!!!!
Is that a free launch or free lunch journalist?
HEEE HEEE HEEE
Laughter is good for the soul but this is getting ridiculous.
Succulent Lamb? – and he takes calls every night about Liquidation
Without Murray’s millions Celtic would have been out of Gers reach forever
By jim Traynor on May 7, 11 06:33 AM in rangers
WITH his pen poised over the dotted line, David Murray thought again. But only for a second.
The story of his life as chairman and owner of Rangers flashed before him, and when the images of the last few years flickered into focus he wasn’t even in them.
It was a timely reminder that it really was full time for the man who’d bulldozed his way through the Scottish game with a raging ambition, bombast and arrogance.
The thing he at one-time cherished more than any of the grand buildings, steel firms or ancient French vineyards he owned was gone. One scrawl on a piece of paper and that was it.
Finally it was over and Murray, who had taken Rangers and their support through glorious, joyous turbulent and desperate times, heaved a mighty sigh of relief.
He’d known for several years he had to get out and was happy to close the door on a 22-year period of his life which took a toll.
He had always divided opinion in the wider game but recently he had split his own support.
He was no longer king and with the outrageous dream of making Rangers a team to be reckoned with in Europe exposed as an expensive error the keys had to be handed over to someone else.
Many will insist Murray took more out of Rangers than he gave in return but they’d be wrong. Rangers took too much out of Murray, especially over the last half-dozen years.
He felt the strain all right and with his business empire also in turmoil there were sleepless nights. Suddenly, as the banking world collapsed the wolves gathered at the door and Murray had to alter his priorities.
The Murray Group had to survive but because there wasn’t a queue of people falling over themselves to buy into Scottish football he had to stay longer than was good for him, or Rangers.
The club, its infrastructure as well as the team, were crumbling under rising debts and many fans who once thought him invincible had turned against him. Their smiles were replaced with snarls.
But despite the difficulties which befell the club it might also have been one message in particular which disenfranchised a slab of the support.
Three years ago Murray told the Billy Boys to shut up and they didn’t like that at all so at 5.30pm yesterday Murray was more than delighted to sign off at Rangers.
The club he’d taken to ridiculously expensive heights and poverty-stricken lows were no longer his concern.
The problems now belong to Craig Whyte. And he paid Lloyds Banking Group £18m for them.
Murray considered fighting the bankers, who’d once been his allies, but his full attention had to be targeted on his main businesses.
Owning Rangers gave him a profile which he enjoyed to the full and although collecting players and trophies fed his ego, the Murray Group gave him his real power, not to mention his wealth.
But there were times, years probably, when Rangers took up too much of his focus. He wasn’t much of a fan as a boy but as owner he became caught up in it all, if not entirely consumed. He was seduced by the thrill of buying and selling. And of course beating Celtic.
At first it was an act. It was theatre and he played to the gallery giving Rangers’ fans what they wanted. A team bursting with talents and a voice louder than any heard at Celtic Park.
It should have been impossible after Graeme Souness, who in those days even managed to speak with a swagger which was in keeping with the new bold and brazen attitude sweeping through Ibrox, but Murray surpassed even that.
He brought an even greater sense of superiority to Ibrox and the fans loved it.
And when he went too far, as he did frequently, they lapped it up. They were the dominant force but, of course, it could never last.
Murray forgot one of his own golden rules – everything and everyone has a shelf life.
He ruled Rangers with a flourish. It was only money and there were always ways of producing more when the millions were spent. There was always a Joe Lewis or a Dave King and the fans had a ball.
Also, there was no pressure from the bank and even when Murray’s instincts jarred and jangled, alerting him to acts of financial folly, he kept going.
He sanctioned the £12m deal for Tore Andre Flo from Chelsea in 2000 when he knew it was wrong. I remember Murray telling me so but he had to trust his managers and Dick Advocaat said Flo would be the final piece of his jigsaw.
Murray knew it made little sense and that might well have been the beginning of the end right there.
If he’d stopped at that moment and said “no” the following years and the fallout might not have been as severe or damaging.
But those were heady days and having set himself up as someone who would always come through for the fans Murray didn’t know how to stop. He still trotted out the sound bites but after a while, and when money was running out, they didn’t have the same ring.
Even he had grown weary of it all long before the world economy subsided leaving the Murray Group facing debts of around £750m.
His love affair was suddenly over but he and the club’s fans have had to endure the longest of goodbyes with recriminations and accusations flying like shrapnel.
The delivery of 15 titles and 21 cups in 22 years should ensure his place as the club’s greatest owner but Murray’s reign can’t be defined by trophies alone.
His time with Rangers has been too complex and varied. It’s been packed with rhetoric, gambles, boasts, wild spending sprees and now penny pinching.
And just as his time cannot be marked by a debt which peaked at £80m neither can it be identified by winning 36 of the 67 domestic trophies which Rangers contested during his tenure.
From the beginning he divided opinion and it’s doubtful if the truth of Murray’s ownership can be found at the worst of his excesses or the greatest of his triumphs.
The debt and glory are part of the same thing because if Murray had not bought Rangers in November 1988 there would have been no Ibrox expansion.
There would have been no Laudrup and no Gascoigne. There would have been no Murray Park. And there would have been no Nine-in-a-Row.
And would there have been a Catholic signing? Probably, but without Murray it would have taken longer to break that shameful tradition.
Rangers went on to have teams packed with Catholic players, a Catholic captain and a Catholic manager and for that alone Murray deserves great credit. But did it all come at too high a price? The answer has to be no because Rangers are still there and still competing which brings into focus Murray’s most significant success which didn’t demand fortunes.
His sharpest decision was saved last. Signing Mo Johnston was hugely significant in more than a football sense but bringing back Walter Smith when Rangers were about to be plunged into a financial mire should be seen as his finest piece of Ibrox business.
It’s impossible to think of another manager who could have coped with the problems which engulfed the club.
Rangers were on their knees and Celtic looked poised to dominate.
But somehow Smith delivered two titles against the odds and denied Celtic the Champions League millions which would have put them beyond Rangers’ reach for years, maybe even for ever.
Bringing Smith back at the very end was Murray’s masterstroke.
But, of course, the fans will decide how he should be remembered. After all, they’re the ones who never leave. Players, managers, chairmen, and owners come and go but the supporters give up only on death.
So they can write his history with whatever slant suits. He’s already taken a battering from some in recent years but yesterday Rangers were finally removed from his portfolio although he’s still very much in business.
He’s still buying and selling only now he’s not trading players but steel, buildings and wine.
But that’s their loss because Murray always gave Rangers’ players more than they were worth. And by God did he pay for it.
truth4767 says:
23 January, 2012 at 12:23
An alternative scenario of course could be that we continue to live within our means developing our already established conveyor of home produced talent whilst that prospect encourages the other clubs to continue along a similar path and the overall quality and breadth of competition improves consistent with the lack of need to sustain Rangers at all costs. Who knows clubs might actually begin to play football that is not always of an industrial variety encouraged by the opportunity of a realistic chance of European competition. Meantime the lower divisions will prosper via increased gates consistent with the new Rangers “loyal”needing someone to attach themselves to so it may not all be doom and gloom. Indeed this may even be a catalyst for the dramatic changes need in Scottish Football with a re-organisation of league structures and a reduction of clubs following. It may not be all bad news at all – except perhaps for those media tarts who have attached themselves firmly to the Establishment mast for so long.
JinkyvJohnGreig, cheers.
ASonOfDan, yes, I’m enjoying it too.
bournesouprecipe, thanks.
Malc, let’s hope so.
Honest Mistake, not really put my mind to your question, but for a start, as a creditor, HMRC can apply to have the administrator replaced and appoint their own man, with his own timetable.
Any phoenix needs a quick turnaround. HMRC could be in a position to spoil this.
From Garngad to Croy, a fine idea.
MWD, better check that out.
Celtic Mac, :-)
navanbhoy, the call to precedent is really important. This should be our clarion as it points in the one direction.