We have spoken before that preliminary positions are being established ahead of the much-anticipated outcome of HM Revenue and Customs tribunal against Rangers with the possibility that, in the event the decision goes in favour of HMRC, the company could go into liquidation. This weekend brought a fresh attempt to pitch a positive scenario in favour of Rangers.
One newspaper sought solace in the case Parma, stating that the Italian club was allowed to re-emerge in Serie A after going out of business in 2004.
Unfortunately this is a complete misrepresentation of the facts, as far as Parma is concerned, precedent points to an entirely different outcome. Parma went into administration on 28 April 2004 after Parmalat, the dairy company which owned a majority of their shares, also went into administration. Parma remained in administration for three years before emerging after a successful restructuring of their debts. The club was then bought by a new company – but crucially – continuity of football operations was possible because there was no liquidation and debts were restructured in a way consistent with prevailing administration laws, that allowed a company to continue trading.
This, however, is not the end of the precedent Parma can offer Neil Doncaster and his SPL board. In 1968 AC Parma went into liquidation and disappeared from existence. They are an ex-football club, to use a phrase I can see creeping into the local lexicon soon.
Shortly after the failure and permanent disappearance of AC Parma, another club, AC Parmense, who were newly promoted into Sere D, changed their livery to match their better known former-neighbours and changed name to AC Parma. It was this club, AC Parma-formerly-known-as-AC Parmenese, who were promoted through the divisions and went on to win three European trophies.
Precedent from Italy is clear: if a large SPL club is liquidated an opportunity exists for Clyde FC to change their name, ditch the white shirts, rent a large, vacant, stadium and try to work their way through the leagues. Just as Airdrie United-formerly-known-as-Clydebank, are attempting to do.
There are no free tickets to the elite level of Scottish football.
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Having been to Parkhead since a very small boy, and then getting a child season ticket for the Jungle, i don’t recall at any point being close to winning the league.
Did this stop me from going to Hampden for a season, did this stop me from buying shares and many more years of season tickets?
Going to France, England, Germany, Italy and Spain for European games, paying the packages deals for CL and Uefa cup games, did I at any point think we would win an european trophy, (well maybe just a wee bit).
Maybe the winning or being in a chance of winning and being ‘simply the best’ is everything to TFOD ‘loyal’ fans, but to the rest of scottish football and to me, i’m faithful through and through to Celtic, and it won’t matter if they were playing Clyde, Raith Rovers or Stenhousemuir, every week I would go and support Celtic.
I also stop at local parks and watch any ‘live’ football that is on, as in at my local park not on the TV.
Real football fans, love football and if TFOD fans don’t go and start supporting another club, which i would do, then it just shows everyone what they are all about, and its nothing to do with football.
vogue
Too obvious to be Awe Naw?
CT
I’ll gie ye 50 ya trumpet :-))
Hamiltontim
Many happy returns!
Me, I prefer my birthdays to pass quietly and unannounced.
It’s an age thing.
ps, my first paper round was in 1956!
hoopeddreams,
All of the Newco/ OldCo scenarios only apply in one specific circumstance: the OldCo has gone bust and relinquished its place in the league and the NewCo has replaced it.
It’s not a matter of which company owns one club; we are talking about two separate football clubs here.
Here’s the scenario: the tax bill hits, Rangers can’t pay and go bust. Bye bye OldCo. Place in the Premier League gone and a vacancy created. NewCo (playing as Govan Rovers or whatever) joins the league as an entirely new club.
The new club cannot be penalised as it has not suffered an insolvency event or broken any league rules. It has only just come into existance.
CRC
Cheers mate.
Na my money is on the bold Daniel (but with a secretary doing the spelling!!)
MWD no offence honey :-)
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon
And it cannot be granted a UEFA license for 3 years…
we need to be careful we dont take our eye off the ball. even though they are skint they are still bringing in players. that boy sellik looks like he has a good pedegree. ally brought in aluko who has to be a candidate for player of they year the way he has turned things around for them. now they are looking at getting some other striker in. our scouts need to work harder i think as all of these trial guys are going across the city and all look like very very good players. we could be missing out here.
Philbhoy bringin’the news to the people
One of you Mods look at Declan,s ip address and tell us who he/she is
Thanks
Philbhoy – It’s just the beginning! says:
23 January, 2012 at 13:48
Hamiltontim
Many happy returns!
Me, I prefer my birthdays to pass quietly and unannounced.
It’s an age thing.
ps, my first paper round was in 1956!
———————————————————————————————————
Thanks for the good wishes.
1956!! Seriously? I always put you down as one of the hip, cool. young dudes (like me!)
GordonJ:
‘Place in the Premier League gone and a vacancy created’ you say…. which should surely mean an extra place for a 1st div team?
My prediction…….
Straight back in 25 point penalty + 3 year Uefa block = “what you complaining about timmy, largest points penalty ever,,,,,blah blah blah”.
truth4767 says:
23 January, 2012 at 12:23
Absoluely…….Perfecto………mundo mundo!
Less dosh……………so what?
Cheaper Players………our current cheap ones look good and entertain!
Easy league………..thank you (see PSV/Man U et al)
harder European routes………nice challenge
No Games against the WASPS………..er have I died and gone to Heaven by any chance?
So…………..thank you and goodnight!
HH
Declan Is Neil Lennon 1888 Hates being 2nd says:
23 January, 2012 at 13:52
we need to be careful we dont take our eye off the ball. even though they are skint they are still bringing in players. that boy sellik looks like he has a good pedegree. ally brought in aluko who has to be a candidate for player of they year the way he has turned things around for them. now they are looking at getting some other striker in. our scouts need to work harder i think as all of these trial guys are going across the city and all look like very very good players. we could be missing out here.
Is your tongue in your cheek?
Because if you are being serious…..
falkirkbhoy says:
23 January, 2012 at 13:45
Very sensible post.
James Forrest is Lennon says:
23 January, 2012 at 13:35
Agreed. Like you say the rules are either applied or they are disregarded. There is no middle ground.
A few months ago you said you thought it was utterly unconceivable that they could be re-admitted to the SPL. I and many other posters disagreed, feeling that the establishment would move heaven and earth to allow a “soft fall” and even try to rip up their own rule books. This is what we are seeing now. Whether they are successful or not remains to be seen. If it comes to be it will just be the latest addition to a string of injustices favouring Rangers over the years. Though it would be by far the biggest.
The idea of points deduction is, like you say absurd. How can a NewCo be punished? They have done nothing wrong. They would have to serve a 3 year UEFA competetion absence but otherwise they should be allowed to continue as normal, within the rules. Staring in the Third Division with no history.
If they were deducted 10 or 20 points and ended up bottom of the SPL would the shifing about of rules need to be repeated to prevent their relegation?!
You have listed 2 options for a NewCo. If they lose the tax case there is a third option which I would be satisfied with. Their fans get together, put money in a £48m size piggy bank to pay their tax bill then they get to keep their history and stumble along as they are. Noth that Celtic fans would have allowed this situation to develop, but if it had that’s what I believe we would do.
Option 2 is not acceptable.
Hamiltontim
Meant to say.Happy birthday young yin.
Malarkey,
Yes, that’s my view of what should happen. Teams move up the structure to fill the vacancies leaving a space in the third division. And that’s where the NewCo can apply along with anyone else who fancies it.
I was responding to a post about SPL rules, which might not have been clear. The scenario I outlined involved the NewCo being admitted straight to the SPL – which I clearly hope will not be allowed to happen.
Scottish Cup Final from next season to be played on a Sunday, another fabulous decision, NOT!!!!
Afternoon all,
Just popped in for a look.
‘ally brought in aluko who has to be a candidate for player of they year the way he has turned things around for them’
Is this a comedy show?
Malarkey:
Correct mate. The rules are clear. Every team moves up one place. Which means a decision to allow Rangers NewCo straight into the SPL has knock on effects – and is possibly subject to legal challenges – for clubs all the way down to the bottom tier of the SFL, as well as all those non-league sides who are denied a chance to apply for the position. To deny it is a minefield option, fraught with dangers.
Declan at 13.52
“aluko who has to be a candidate for player of they year ”
Declan have you forgotten to take the meds?
Many happy returns to ole Hamilton Tim
vogue
Cheers mate. Jelly and ice cream tonight, YIPPEE!!
THe Big Picture
Hope you dont mind a relative newcomer sticking in 10 cents worth,
A world without Rangers, far from being bad for scottish football would lead to a new period of adjustment in our game and a new balance.
Competition for celtic will emerge, another team will step out and compete, its happened before and will again.
The bigger benefit will be to the country we live in, an institution that has been a focal point and indeed an active cheerleader for hate, injustice, bigotry and division will have gone, the focal point removed, the northern Irish element will take themselves and their bile back home and well away from here.
society will not be cured but it will most definately be better, the chance for normal society to flourish as in most other places will be the prize.
Celtic must fight for that prize and not short term financial gain.
mm
HT
Insist on Equi’s Ice cream. You deserve it!
I’ve written to the SPL.
I await a reply.
All will be revealed. I’m sure!
MWD Is not Declan
DBBIA
Thank you, don’t suppose you have anythng in the cabinet with the ol medicinal properties to maintain my perma-youth?
Right back to the chalkface.
The Honest Cover-up:
Correct on every count. Option 2, as you say, is unacceptable, but unless your option 3 can be done – and I doubt it’s possible – then there ARE only two options. There is no way this can be, or should be, dressed up as a victory for integrity or sportsmanship or good governance merely because Rangers NewCo is given a slap on the wrist. Anything which stops short of the rules being applied to Rangers as they would be for any other club – ourselves included – is a fraud and a farce, and if the SPL is going to endorse that position they need to do it all the way, so it can be called what it is. No hiding behind some ridiculous “punishment” with zero impact. If they’re going to allow it, then allow it, and our club must act accordingly and make our complete opposition known, with full consequences attached.
Here’s an option I’m going to throw out in front of you. See how this grabs you.
If the SPL takes the road many think they will, and votes to allow NewCo Rangers to be re-admitted, I have a suggestion.
We don’t resign. We don’t do anything rash. Instead, we call Dermott in Ireland and we tell him to “cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.”
Call in the lawyers. Demand a full scale judicial review of this entire affair. Take it OUTSIDE the remit of FIFA, UEFA and all.
“Aaaaaah but you can’t do that!” will scream some people. “There would be knock on consequences for the whole Scottish ga …. oh wait a minute …..”
Yes. There WOULD be knock on consequences for the WHOLE Scottish game. Our clubs would be banned from Europe. Our national side banned from playing in any international competitions. It would be a catastrophe.
I say to you this: SO GODDAMNED WHAT?????
Do it Celtic. THAT is the bluff to call. THAT is the card to play. Take it to the courts. Let FIFA punish the WHOLE of Scottish football … and it DESERVES TO BE punished for allowing such a bent deal to be done.
How many clubs would ACTUALLY suffer? Not enough to matter.
Do it Celtic. THAT is our nuclear option.
TBB
Funny you should mention that…..
truth4767 says:
23 January, 2012 at 12:23
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are trying to make a sensible argument for your club – I wont deny you that
However your club has prospered at my clubs expense and as a consequence those who break the law must do the time- you must do yours
Would Celtic suffer because you were not around – possibly – but think of the benefit to all the clubs in Division 3
And assuming you get promoted to all the clubs in Division 2 etc
And this is assuming you continue to support your club
One final thing – it really is a bit desperate to suggest that if Rangers suffer – Celtic will suffer – so let us off
Get ready to support your club because they really do need you now – but more importantly lets see how many flee the nest
Have fun – we will
67ECW
Euan Norris will take charge of Celtic’s League Cup semi-final against Falkirk on Sunday with Stevie McLean refereeing the previous days Kilmarnock v Ayr United match.
The appointments suggest that both officials are making progress through the ranks as the SFA attempt to add to their rota of referees capable of handling Celtic v Rangers matches with only Craig Thomson, Calum Murray and Willie Collum having taken that fixture on more than one occasion.
Norris was in the headlines earlier in the season when he awarded Rangers two penalties away to Inverness Caley Thistle but has kept a relatively low profile since then.
In his only Celtic appointment of the season he handed out four yellow cards in the 2-0 win away to St Johnstone last month.
Charlie Richmond makes a surprise return to the SPL on Saturday taking charge of the Rangers v Hibs match at Ibrox.
The Ayrshire whistler has been touring the lower reaches of the game since his disastrous performance in the Motherwell v Celtic match in November but appears to have worked his way back into favour.
Four points behind, time to call in a MIB that will see them alright…
HH
Truth 4767 i agree with you ,1 season without rangers great,but could scottish football survive ,personally i dont think so.look at the attendances at some of these football clubs when celtic and rangers are not visiting them. dunfermline and ict last monday night harley a soul there .and thats what in store for us ,
Cardiff Bhoy,
cheers for the link to the website with all the attendances on it, excellent stuff.
————————-
MWD
be careful
TAL
noo you’ve taken it too far.
Why are all these bhuns appearing on here?
Out of interest, anyone know how many points rangers have dropped since Aluko signed?
Seeing as he is player of the year material…
HH
Mort
It was him and his brother.
Diego Della Valle didn’t do all that on his Tod.
HT – the ole Elixir of Youth
…it maks sense tae me, and it maks sense tae Mo.