I’ve spoken to a few Rangers fans over recent months, the base line of acceptability has been redrawn many times. If you read back on what was presented as reality on 13 February, when Craig Whyte announced that while it was “business as usual” he applied to the court for a 10 day period to appoint an administrator.
Back then, administration was abhorrent, but suggestions of liquidation were regarded as outrageous. On 22 February Celtic Quick News asked questions about Improper Registration of Football players, was it possible that Rangers results would have to be re-written as 3-0 defeats for a decade or more?
In March Rangers director (still, I believe) Dave King sent out a new baseline, liquidation was inevitable but there was no question that titles would be taken off Rangers. Even this concession to liquidation was disputed by the Blue Knight and Duff and Phelps. Publicly, both still hold to this line, although Duff and Phelps use some creative ideas to get there.
Most now know that liquidation is inevitable. A few understand that the SPL inquiry into player registration is likely to result in five or more league titles being reallocated to Celtic, but I don’t hear anyone accepting the reality of the situation.
Rangers don’t have a buyer, primarily as the administrators don’t have a stadium they can sell. Even if they try to remain in administration for next season, Ticketus own the majority of their income. It will cost countless millions to pull a deal together, much more than the £11.2m Bill Miller considered putting on the table, and no one is coming up with that kind of money.
In the unlikely event these problems are resolved, whatever club emerged would have to deal with the fallout from players refusing to join a Newco and becoming free agents, football fines debts from Oldco, SFA penalties, Newco penalties if preferential treatment is provided in order to get them into a higher league, and SPL penalties for Improper Registration of Players.
There are two simple solutions. Form a new club, ask to share Firhill or Love St – or better still, rent Cathkin Park (reset ambition for Rangers as the new Third Lanark), and apply for entry to the Scottish Football League. Alternatively, co-opt a lower league club, maybe Airdrie United could help, rename it and spend however many years as it takes trying to acquire whatever parts of Ibrox survives liquidation.
This is a controlled and predictable way forward, a concept not delivered by Duff and Phelps, totally in the control of whoever wants to harvest fallout from the demise of the Rangers brand.
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Steinreignedsupreme
They could spread tickets debt over longer period?
Surely their supported would fill Hampden for 3 years?
I think that would allow them to compete with the rest if not Celtic.
I sense the players will be very influential in all this and barring the likes of Healey.. The older guys are off to get their last big contract.
There should however be enough young Hun pros willing to help their cause?
A lot of my thinking is driven by 2 things:
1. I’d rather they survived forever shamed and good only for 2nd at best.
2. When all said and done they have a GAURANTEED market
RogueLeader
You have stated that no CVA is possible, very quickly, responding to others.
So why are they still talking about a CVA, as according to AT that is what they hope to achieve, and , they are 90% down the road, if its a smoke screen, then what are they trying to hide, liquidation? por ceirto
O.G.Rafferty
Thanks.
Mort
Anyone else suspect that Peter Ridsdale is part of this English consortium?
LB
UEFA’s 11 Values
Number 1: Football first
In everything that we do, football must always be the first and most important element that we take into consideration. Football is a game before being a product, a sport before being a market, a show before being a business.
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/elevenvalues/index.html
So even if they get a consortium daft enough to throw money down the drain what about:
Ticketus
The Creditors? Will they all accept less than 10p in the pound
The SPL
The Dual Contracts?
It sounds like Whytey is indeed trying to make a fast buck and do a runner but if BIll Miller looked at the books and saw more problems than have been revealed, why would the English mob be any different – unless they are selling assets or it is a scam.
And don’t forget Hector.
Rogueleader
If we had stated publicly that the SFA should notify all its members why the SFA chose not to fully implement what the independent panel recommended and choose not to expel a fellow member there would be nothing wrong with that. We do need to know in the future such precedents and why those decisions were taken.
That would let everyone know that we are on the game
BUT NO we get a strong recommendation that Newco depends on a vote from Motherwell and that we will be voting and that this is happening … how many days before the end of the period for ST renewal ?
Hail Hail
LiviBhoy
Yep, that was my first thought.
Mort
I heard that the English based consortia are led by newly demoted Blackburn owners the Venkeys… Likelihood is they will ‘chicken’ out tho…
Gordon_J
With all due respect, UEFA’s competitions are based on Corporate Business Decisions.
UEFA is a Business First…por cierto
I’m assuming the Huns transfer ban will be rescinded or suspended when the appeal is heard next Wednesday.
There are a few free transfer going around (Kenneth from Dundee Utd and Black from Hearts as examples) who would help keep the huns reasonably competitive if they lost some of the bigger names.
aldersyde avenue
Cleary you haven’t seen Garry Kenneth playing much my friend;)
HH
ScotPatsFan – Ha!
Good to know the youngsters of today have the same spirit we OA’s had in the 90’s. (thumbsup)
So as we now approach the final game of the 2011/2012 season, we inevitably look forward to the start of next season. Im not sure when the first league game is, probably around the beginning of August
From now until then the huns only need to
Find a buyer
Buy Craig Whytes shares
Arrange a CVA or liquidate
Pay club wages during the close season
Sell season tickets (for ticketus?)
If it’s a newco they then need to apply to the SPL
The spl need to agree (im sure this part is a done deal)
They then need to have players/sponsors
All in 10 weeks to compete in the SPL next season even as a newco. It possible, but its unlikely and if the SFA are making newco type provisions in preparation for the newco request, I wonder if they have started any provisional plans to re admit Dunfermline or Dundee in the event of a total wipe out of the huns
Por Cierto – D&P themselves said a CVA was not possible 5 days ago.
I am only going by HMRCs own published guidance. They have a policy to block a CVA if the debt is accrued via certain circumstances. There are several. One is using PAYE / NIC as cashflow. Another is Tax Avoidance / Evasion schemes. Rangers’ debt is accrued via both of the above. So unless they pay HMRC 100%, and therefore ALL creditors 100%, a CVA will be blocked.
For a CVA HMRC will have to go against their published policy and wrench open the largest can of worms you could imagine. Not something they are likely to do for the sake of what £50m when you compare that against the value the precedent would set when there are 4000+ EBT cases outstanding.
Whyte’s floating charge is the key. If somebody wants to buy Rangers they have to give Whyte more cash than he would obtain from the asset sale in liquidation. That is the bottom line.
Long ago it was discovered Whyte will not get the money to satisfy his floating charge via bidders for the club, Liquidation is where the pounds are for the secured creditor, who remember is paid first and in full.
CultsBhoy loves being 1st forever & ever on 9 May, 2012 at 11:58:
“They could spread tickets debt over longer period?”
I think they tried this and from what I understand Ticketus told them where to go – despite reports in the media suggesting some deal had been struck. Ticket touts are generally not compassionate by nature. They will want a return on their loan asap.
“Surely their supported would fill Hampden for 3 years?”
The jury is out on that one for me. We are talking about a new club here. There is a lot of bravado on messageboards – but they didn’t want Miller because he was going to liquidate the club. The reason for that is many of them will not support a new club.
Paul has said on numerous occasions Craig Whyte is the only show in town.
Alex T talks with CW by phone fairly regularly.
Alex T now states CW is negotiating with this consortium and a deal is likely. Talks have been going on with Duffers for over a week.
Seems clear that Rangers would therefore have a ground to play in (CW probably leases the ground to this consortium).
Seems likely that the SPL will be offering the same lenient terms for the Newco to rejoin without penalty that Miller was asking for.
Por Cierto on 9 May, 2012 at 11:58 said:
AT has said CVA is their plan. It may not be successful. Davi Hillier tweeted this morning that taking the Sun story at face value that it would take weeks to get in place and Rangers would likely still be in administration at the start of next season.
And remember if Rangers exit admin through CVA all their liable for everything that good sense says they are due. If this is a football minded consortium they know that it’s nigh on impossible to make money out of the SPL and they’d be chucking away tens of millions for no return.
Ask yourself if that’s likely. You’ll be happy with the answer.
Gordon – gonnae give us a break with this UEFA values nonsense. They do not have any values that they practice. If they had values hey would have done something about racism in football.
FPP is a pipe dream that the big clubs will drive a coach and horses through.
UEFA will do nothing to stop the decisions that will be taken by the SFA that will allow Rangers (in whatever form) to be in the SPL next season.
In an ideal world everything you aspire UEFA to be would happen. But it’s not an ideal world and it’s not gonna happen.
Awe_Naw – did the independent panel recommend Rangers’ expulsion? I didn’t realise their findings had been published yet, I was out of the loop over the weekend though. Linky?
Ok guys
Karl Heinz Rumennigges wee birdy has just told me after months of haranguing and emails
THAT UEFA ARE ALL OVER IT
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Hail Hail
Perhaps they (the new owner) will rebrand as Darlington or Portsmouth or A.N Other in an English league ?
LiviBhoy: “Only a Tim can feel that shiver down their spine when the team runs out at Paradise under the floodlights against a European giant.”
One of the great feelings that we get to experience is that crackling electric atmosphere.
Hail Hail
Interview with Neil on SSN today, were he talks about whether Celtic needs the huns.
Neil says ‘probably’.
A big change in a few weeks from ‘no we dont’
shimmies33 and Cults…
I agree if the huns are allowed to cheat their way out of this they will be competing for trophies in 3yrs max.
The reason the huns are in the position is because they have to beat timmy.
The fans of newhunco wont change.
How will we get these five or more titles? How do we celebrate them?
One a week/month for a while or all in a wunner?
If its all in a wunner that would be dangerous trying to celebrate loads of titles in one go, Peter Lawwell would have to go…
NoGotAcarryOotShopCSC
Paul67 – Re: the Rangers brand.
To their fans, and even many of those who aren’t Rangers fans, it may be difficult to imagine Scottish football without them.
It wasn’t that long ago that people would have struggled to imagine the British high street without Woolworths, the car industry without Rover, or Glasgow without shipbuilding.
Their situation is so toxic, such an omnishambles, that even the Rangers brand may not survive their current troubles. (thumbsup)
philvisreturns
Totally agree. I still can’t believe Ceefax is gone!
Strange times we are living in.
LB
Rogue
Effectively yes but it is the SFA that implement the recommendations and they decided on an exceptional basis not to.
Why ?
What would be the harm in asking ?
Was Ogilvie involved in the referral. He was not on the panel as it was independent but was he involved in the compromise ?
Fans were agitated and were right to be agitated considering the background.
Lets move on.
Hail Hail
Awe Naw 12.14
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HAIL HAIL
I see Andy Kerr of the Rangers (In Administration) Supporters Assembly thinks Bill Miller just didn’t understand the message Rangers fans were trying to convey with their banners and expletive-ridden emails:
The supporters’ chief played down the role of banners unfurled at Rangers’ home game against Dundee United – and claims of hundreds of emails received by Miller every day from angry fans.
“The general call from the supporters was ‘who are you? Give us an explanation of what you’re trying to achieve. Let’s try to work together and engage with you and see if we can take the club forward’,” Kerr told BBC Scotland.
For you see, in parliamo hunno, “Ur you an effin feenyun yank or whit? Gies yer money!” means “Hello good sir! Let us engage in a respectful dialogue about the best way forward in our mutual interests.”
(thumbsup)
Was Cee Fax a right back ?
Hail HAil
Mort-I would say you are spot on with Ridsdale,done a fire-fighting job at Cardiff currently at Preston NE.Saying that,he ruined Leeds Utd.
aldersyde avenue on 9 May, 2012 at 12:10:
“Gordon – gonnae give us a break with this UEFA values nonsense. They do not have any values that they practice.”
They do when it suits them and always against smaller nations. Had Sion been someone like Juventus or Mallaga they would have probably got off with a slap on the wrists instead of getting chucked out of the Europa League.
But they are from Switzerland, which like Scotland has no clout and is ripe for making an example of – which they should be doing with the Huns anyway.
philvisreturns
You have to love what Rangers fans say and do and then what they mean.
They are the thickest football fans on the planet. Crazy mixed up bunch of haters.
I remember the photo of one of the Orc’s doing a Nazi salute draped in an Israeli flag. You don’t get much more confused than that!
LB
LiviBhoy – Future generations will know Rangers from those “I Love The 80’s” type clip shows, where Z-list celebrities who were only little kids at the time pretend to remember the era in detail.
Craig Whyte will go down in history alongside Lord Lucan, Shergar, and Sir David Murray’s investigation into sectarian signing in the empty San Siro. (thumbsup)
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo – Was Cee Fax a right back ?
Press ‘Reveal’ for the answer. (thumbsup)
Awe_Naw – so the independent panel hasn’t reported and therefore you don’t know if they recommended expulsion, literally or effectively, and that said recommendation was subsequently ignored by the SFA leading to our board being negligent in not taking a stand against something publicly that doesn’t seem to have happened?
You getting my point yet?
Yup…….bitch slapped