I listened to a Scottish Rugby podcast with Jason Leitch, recorded earlier this week, where they discussed the reasons that appear to lie behind why the Scottish Government in their treatment of football is out of step with European countries, like Germany, France, Netherlands and others, but in-step with the Westminster Government.
Professor Leitch rhetorically posed the question you and I have discussed recently, “Why can I go to the pub and I can’t go to Celtic Park.” Through analogy, he explained that the Government were able to permit some activities, not all. That has never been in dispute, during a pandemic, you cannot allow all activities.
What has not previously been confirmed is why the Scottish Government has shadowed the (frankly abysmal) pandemic response of Boris Johnson’s Westminster government, instead of acknowledging the clear and undisputed scientific evidence that drives public policy among our European peers. Professor Leitch placed responsibility for this squarely with his political masters:
“How you then make choices between sport, versus retail, versus hospitality; that comes down to decision making, by politicians, taking the best advice they can from the financial people, the public health people, the social policy people and making choices.”
Clearly the Scottish Government listens to financial, public health and social policy people before making decisions, so do Boris Johnson and Donald Trump, this allows them to act sincere, it does not make them any good. But when Europe takes one path, which is consistent with science, and Scotland follows Westminster, which has led to some of the highest rates of mortality in the world in both Scotland and the UK as a whole, we are entitled to ask, what is going on?
They do not have a different virus in Dortmund than we have in Glasgow. In both places, it spreads significantly more indoors than out. It is inhibited by adherence to clear and monitored hygiene and distancing rules, like those in place at football games across the Continent, and it spreads where consistent enforcement of these rules is unmonitored – like pubs. The difference is the politicians, not the virus.
I know this is ‘just’ football, and our consequences are nothing like the care homes fiasco, but government policy needs to shape up pandemic response in all areas. It is not easy, but if decisions are too onerous for people in Edinburgh to get their heads around, stop following a clown in London and watch what is happening in Europe: fewer deaths, fewer infections, industry specific responses.
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Me?
I predict lots of insults and for that reason I’m out…..
Mon the Hoops.
1,246 new cases reported in Scotland today.
20 new hospital admissions
6 further deaths
We’re pretty much at the point now that we were in the week or two before lockdown in March,
But football fans attending games. Like it’s important. Like it matters.
I think Paul 67 does it on purpose
“Why can I go to the pub and I can’t go to Celtic Park.” ?
I assume he didn’t name Celtic Park specifically when posing the rhetorical question on the rugby podcast?
My earlier post referred to me posting on the previous thread not Paul 67’s thoughts on how Scottish and UK governments are dealing with the pandemic.
TBB – you and P67 might be in danger of violently agreeing on this?
Respectfully, permit me to play back your last sentence with a very few key words changed ….
“But drinkers attending pubs. Like it’s important. Like it matters”
Australia and New Zealand are shining examples of how to best cope in the current situation…the UK as an island had an easier task than most to deal with it and has failed miserably.
We can’t go to pubs either now, so the argument is moot and stupid.
The argument has ALWAYS been stupid.
All this foot stamping isn’t going to make a blind bit of difference; it is a tiresome bore.
The decisions that are being made right now are about life and death, and all of them bring spectacular downsides. The people paid to take those decisions are weighing consequences which are far greater than anything mere football bloggers will ever have to grapple with.
Sniping from the sidelines is easy. Most people would piss their pants if they to juggle the awesome responsibilities here. This is worse than Monday morning quarterbacking. It is pathetic.
Paul 67,
No argument here. BJ is a useless baffoon.
Our FM does not like pubs or football, that much is perfectly clear. Our esteemed dentist is having a giraffe when he states we should all sit at home alone and watch Celtic gub the new huns.
Does he live in the real world ? Was he ever young ? Take pro active action and get the test and trace correct, not give out ambigious unworkable rules.
What else have BJ and NS got in common. ? Are they both forgetful and economical with the truth. ?
Football is now being controlled by politicians. Control being the definining word.They will be responsible for its demise.
I have mentioned many times about my fear of sleeping towards a police state.
I have not changed my opinion.
HH to all.
Wee Nicola is a bawbag.
My first political post!
Awesome.
“Our FM does not like pubs or football, that much is perfectly clear.”
Clear to who?
Who exactly are you speaking for?
As for this “police state” nonsense, there are websites for conspiracy theorists. Plenty of them. Some of them on the other side of the city. They, too, believe in this Evil SNP mantra. They frame it slightly differently, but they are quite out of their minds.
In the last hour my wife and I just received positive covid tests, we have not been out much, never been to a pub and very limited coffee shop visits. Yet our host thinks everything will be okay at football matches, his attack on the SNP seems to have removed all reason from his thought process.
J would love to be at Celtic park right now but for goodness sake put your one eyed politics to one side and think of the greater good.
TIMMY7_NOTED
Sorry to read your sad news.
Hope you both recover quickly!
The constant banging of the drum about letting fans back into CP suggests that the financial projections must be pretty dire for next season.
ERNIE LYNCH
How many seasons would you pay for vst?
Cheers Philboy , we are mid 50s so in theory not hugely at risk but it’s still worrying. We have horrible symptoms.
Luckily earlier this week I was due to take my 84 year old mother to visit my 89 year old father in his care home but I just didn’t feel right and thought better of it. So grateful for that decision.
THE HAND OF GOD.
Agree with you 100%, down to the leaders I suppose.
Here in Victoria our Premier Daniel Michael Andrews despite a lot of
early mistakes, has stuck to his guns, testing, tracking, and tracing,
is the answer.
We have over 2000 people doing that, at enormous cost to the
economy, borders to the other states are closed, three of which are
Covid free.
Our 14 day average is down to 9 now but we won’t get any easing of
restrictions until we’re at 5 and then it will still be masks and probably
still a 10 km area isolation zone.
Will he still have a job at the end of it all?
I’m not so sure, but he’s not for budging.
Despite the mistakes I’m still with him.
H.H. Mick
TIMMY7_NOTED
Doesn’t sound very nice!
Take care and hopefully get better soon!
JAMES FORREST on 9TH OCTOBER 2020 12:35 PM
“The decisions that are being made right now are about life and death, and all of them bring spectacular downsides. The people paid to take those decisions are weighing consequences which are far greater than anything mere football bloggers will ever have to grapple with.
Sniping from the sidelines is easy. Most people would piss their pants if they to juggle the awesome responsibilities here. This is worse than Monday morning quarterbacking. It is pathetic.”
Really got to disagree with you- all societies across the globe are juggling with awesome responsibilities. Some politicians are doing so much better than ours – north or south of the border. Countries poorer than Scotland in terms of health, social care or education resources have juggled their responsibilities so much better.
In terms of countries with about 5 million people the numbers of deaths is to my mind chilling.
At start of September
Scotland 4228
Denmark 627
Costa Rica 460
Finland 336
Norway 254
Palestine 170
Congo 102
Singapore 27
New Zealand 23
No sniping – we are entitled to demand that the Scottish Government protects our health and wellbeing better than it has done so far. I would happily attend Celtic Park with 15000 others before entering a pub to watch football.
PHILBHOY on 9TH OCTOBER 2020 12:52 PM
ERNIE LYNCH
How many seasons would you pay for vst?
###
Personally I don’t put a penny into Scottish football so I’m not the targetted demographic, but your point is sound. People were prepared to pay this season. I doubt many will do the same next season.
TIMMY7_NOTED on 9TH OCTOBER 2020 12:52 PM
Hope you both make a full and speedy recovery.
The displays from Big Nir,and Elhamed last night were fantastic.Nir was only carrying on from his performances for Celtic,before picking up the knock at Perth.The only thing that was amazing to me about his performance ,was the fact that so many Celtic fans have never been able to see this in the past.For many,any time they are talking about “A clear out”Nir is always mentioned.One of the drawbacks of deciding on a whipping boy,for whatever reason,and blindly maintainin g that viewpoint,regardless.
James Forrest,
Have you spoken to pub owners ? Her dislike of alcohol is a very common theme. This is not news.
I have no blind loyalty to any politician, I will call it as I see it regardless of political allegiance.
As for conspiracy theories. Surely you know CQN has always had a vibrant discussion on this very subject. Surprising just how many were proven correct.
Are you not worried about the unprecedented powers that our government’s have without any debate. ? They will not give them up easily or voluntary.
Just nodding and swooning to every single new decree, no matter how ambiguous does not serve our “democratic” process well.
Where is the accountability. ?
If the Scottish government had implemented proper measures in pubs and monitored this rather than an unregulated free for all, then the virus wouldn’t have anywhere near the foothold it currently has across all sectors, and Timmy7 and his missus might not have caught the virus in a seemingly innocent coffee shop and we might have been able to attend celtic park next week. Get well soon btw.
The Ryan Christie situation is farcical, if you or I tested negative, you would be back at work,footballers are among the most protected and tested in the country.
Wee Nicola not calling off next week’s game.
James Forrest
Re your last paragraph. You mention sniping and you jump in and do it yourself.
You also refer people out with the experts and what they might do If they had to make these big decisions.
That’s an “if” that doesn’t exist. You may as well say if the virus didn’t exist we would all be posting about football.
Hail Hail
Stay Safe
Timmy7_Noted,
Take care of yourself and your missus fella. A reminder of how real and present this danger is. Football stadiums can wait.
If anyone fancies a wee pick me up, a great video on Celtic social media of Diego, big Tam, Ollie, Scott, big Chris and even the lesser spotted Dembele knocking the ball about beautifully at Lennoxtown.
Warmed the cockles of my cold heart.
HH
TIMMY7_NOTED on 9TH OCTOBER 2020 12:52 PM
So sorry to hear you both tested positive. I hope and trust you will both recover completely.
The amount of people I know who has or had the virus is now quite numerous.
Good luck to you both and take care.
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TURKEYBHOY on 9TH OCTOBER 2020 12:59 PM
Not just a good performance by Nir Bitton, but a good performance for 120 minutes.
HH.
TIMMY7_NOTED on 9TH OCTOBER 2020 12:52 PM
Keep well keep safe. May it be mild with you
If covid numbers exceed pre lockdown figures is a further lockdown likely?
And if so would 3 months be enough, or would that just be kicking the can down the road again?
Questions, questions.
BIG WAVY
Tried CTV for that vid, is it on tube? would like to
view it.
H.H. Mick
!!BADA BING!! on 9TH OCTOBER 2020 1:02 PM
‘The Ryan Christie situation is farcical, if you or I tested negative, you would be back at work,footballers are among the most protected and tested in the country.’
###
There’s two problems though.
1. Even though he’s tested negative he could be incubating the virus, and while that is the case for all negative tests, in this situation he has apparently been exposed to the virus, so there should be a presumption that he might be infected.
2. Once you start having differently rules for different classes of people, based on how often they happen to be tested, then the risk is that the whole system breaks down and people lose confidence in it.
Melbourne Mick
You on Facebook? It came up on my Celtic FC ‘Story’. It’s a series of clips threaded together. Might be originally an instragram post?
HH
BIG WAVY
I’m on facebook ,Celtic Down Under, will check that.
Cheers.
H.H. Mick