This whole blogging business has been a bit dull since those heady days when David Murray’s bombast cast a shadow across the land. When most of the population believed he was the smartest person in the country, when he went as far as to assure us that it was his duty to minimise tax liability!
This place has been all about the football for a while now, which is how I wanted it in the first place. But here we are, Back to the Future, all because of a sloppy piece in The Times, who today used unattributed quotes to suggest that Rangers were victims of HMRC, without a shred of reality behind the claim.
Let’s deal with the simple facts first. The highest court in the land ruled that money Rangers paid footballers and executives through an Employee Benefit Trust scheme was disguised remuneration. They accepted HMRC’s claim that tax was due on this remuneration.
One aspect often lost in time, is that Rangers went into liquidation without ANY court in the land finding against their use of EBTs. It was not the judgement that went against them, it was that they made no provision to trade through the period these claims would be examined.
The club and their investors were either unable or unwilling to put the £18m or so on the table that would have paid Lloyds Group overdraft. This would have prevented the sale to Craig Whyte and the club could have continued to trade until (and perhaps beyond) the conclusion of the Tax Case.
What happened subsequently is just window dressing. They went down for the want of £18m that was used to compete for the Scottish Premier League.
By the time the Supreme Court ruled against them, Rangers were in the hands of liquidators, BDO. Administrators Duff and Phelps agreed to change their name so that the Intellectual Property could be sold to a Newco, along with other assets.
Several matters were not examined by the court, specifically, penalty clauses and whether payments made to players should be considered gross or net of tax. HMRC did not pursue the liquidated company on either question, but – and you really need to suspend disbelief here for a moment, The Times today are under the impression that IF Rangers continued to trade, HMRC would simply walk away, that no penalty clause would be asked for!
Honestly, I have never read anything as purile. When you fail to pay tax due and it is economically worth their while, HMRC always ask for interest and penalty clauses. Always. Even from the Mighty Rangers!
Why, though, is someone peddling this line now? Why blame HMRC when the facts are so patently clear and readily available? When I asked someone who has experience of these matters, I was told, “This is a psychopathic denial of responsibility. Part of a parasitic lifestyle”. When you look at it like that, the whole thing makes sense.
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PHILBHOY
BFDJ definitely dizny like the cut of HMRC’s jib. 😂😂😂
🍀⚽️
https://youtu.be/gM8vOcxatsI
What your average zombie fails to comprehend is it doesn’t matter if it’s £1 or £20 million, if you don’t have it you’re fecked. 😉
A brilliant cross from O’Connor for Ireland’s 3rd
The Times article set loose this thought.
“selling key players would have been one option open to the Ibrox management to meet the liability”
The idea being that had the bill been smaller RFC could have settled the BTC making them more attractive to potential buyers.
Well the core bill (£24m) was possibly manageable and had payment been made to HMRC instead of player trading at £28.2m* in August 2008 with the individual determinations of tax owed already on the desk at Ibrox from Feb to April 2008, then the blockage to sell would have been removed.
Arguably it would have made Rangers a more attractive financial proposition with no debt and an affordable lower player wage bill to build a sustainable future on.
However the decision was taken by Sir David Murray and Walter Smith to try and trade their way out of trouble by guaranteeing access to the CL groups as title winners and the player trading money was spent instead on players who won 3iar
That dependency on CL money for survival started to end with the unforeseen bank crash in Oct 2008 when Lloyds took over from Halifax but finally ended in Malmo and Maribor in 2011.
* This angle with others is covered by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain at
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2019/11/14/a-thundering-squirrel/#more-14633
but it is just one part of a truthful narrative avoided by Scottish Main Stream Media because it exposes the “victim” narrative for what it is – Fake News.
The cause of Rangers downfall was SDM/WS who placed the insatiable appetite of their support ( who never gave a thought to where the money was coming from) to be top dog in Scottish Football, above the well being of not just Rangers FC, but as time is showing, of the well being of the other Scottish football clubs by making the game toxic.
The big question is: Is there an antidote?
Decent 90 min by you Lee O’Connor at right back for Ireland tonight. Very decent.
I suppose first of all a bit of perspective, New Zealand are hardly a World Football Power.
On the other side this was a B Ireland team with several young debutantes. As usual in Friendlies 5 or 6 Substitutes.
However Lee gets the full 90 minutes and IMO ( I know I’m Biased) was a contender for Man of the Match.
A really satisfactory performance and as Bada said earlier what a cross for 3rd goal.
Result Ireland 3 New Zealand 1.
Also looking at buying a tablet, front runner is the Microsoft Surface Pro 7 256 Ram 16 GB retailing for £1100 in Dixons at Glasgow Airport. Would appreciate any feedback from techie minded posters. Hail Hail Hebcelt
brth at 4:16pm
Thanks for the very informative and readable piece.
Ooops 256 GB 16 Ram
Jeepers, Honest to God, I was just going to make a post that I hadn’t noticed any posts from Hebcelt for a while & hey presto just like magic a post appears.
Excellent post earlier Jim H H Hebcelt
Corkcelt still lurking away, since I’ve retired seem to have less time on my hands. Hope you are keeping well, maybe see each other in the BV for a wee snifter. H H Hebcelt
Sound good.
Hebcelt- maybe hold off for Black Friday deals?
BB was going to do that just looking for comments on my choice. H H Hebcelt
Am I the only one still buzzing from the Lazio game ?
One of the side issues here is the reputation of a supposedly ‘credible’ source of news.
If they are willing and happy to print this crap as their lead article, what does it say about their coverage of politics, economics, foreign affairs etc? Is it co-opted as well?
This is what bemuses me about Scottish media. Many journalists who write about things other than sport are not given an audience because many of us will not buy/read the publication in which they write because its credibility is completely shot to bits by its football coverage. Yet editors and owners refuse to change the narrative whilst watching circulation figures implode.
Nope!!!!
Question 17 is a cracking answer.
17. Could Oldco Rangers and Newco Rangers join forces if it was beneficial to club?
Hard to see how that could be done in law, they are two separate entities.
hebcelt,
buy a LENOVO
CHILDRENS DINNER IN GLASGOW,
have a read at this, 1886
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIuVJgPW4AEZPy6.jpg
SO IS WEE BAZZA NO LONGER BANKRUPT ??????
BRTH and Auld Heid thanks for finally finishing the jigsaw.
PS Is the SMS and the Scottish Journalist the finite definition of an an oxymoron?
HH
HebCelt
Depends what you want to use the tablet for. MS Surface Go , a downscale from Surface Pro, on special offer at the moment via MS website – considerably cheaper. Check out review on Tech Radar website to see if it suits.
HH
BRTH, Salve salve ;- Another excellent article informative and easy to understand. You are a bit of a devil with the hand grenade you threw in, yes I think that the poor maligned Sevconians should be petitioning the SFA and the SPL for a full inquiry into all the facts surrounding the demise of Rangers football club under a panel of professionals furth of Scotland. Probably including representation from EUFA as well as legal and fiscal professionals. It should also include no “helpful” input or advice from the likes of Lord Nimo Smith.
Perhaps Celtic should set the ball rolling by vigorously pursuing resolution 12.
Kudos
Condemnant Quo Non Intellegunt
HebCelt, In response to your Surface Pro Question. I bought a Surface Pro 4 to use for travelling and checking work I do on CAD software such as Autodesk Inventor and Fusion 360. It has performed well and in particular is more portable than my Dell or Lenovo laptops.
A couple of issues. The battery on mine has deteriorated and is only good for about an hours work before it needs recharged. A common problem with the Surface Pro 4. Secondly, the CAD software I use does not display correctly on the default aspect ratio. The icons and text are tiny. Those can be modified but the end result looks bad.
Microsoft Office (as you would expect) looks good as do most other applications I use. Let me know if you have any specific questions.
https://twitter.com/HMRCpressoffice/status/1195117665804668929?s=20
Good morning CQN from a not as cauld as late, but still cauld Garngad
Are they still deed….. Yuuup. 😂😂😂
Feckwits.
Here we go 10 IAR 🏆🍀🏆🍀🏆🍀🏆🍀🏆🍀🏆🍀🏆🍀🏆🍀 -🍀 – Loading
Oh any lurking Sevcoites…. GIRFUY
Ah…. I feel better now
D. :)
Great stuff yet again from BRTH and AULDHEID.
I think the Jigsaw was a bit easier to get my head around.
BTW…There was NO Jigsaw…it was an auld joke.
LOL.
Please excuse my ignorance….. as the Old Huns had no money for HMRC to chase up, what about the 60 odd Employees who benefited from the EBT’s and Side Letters ?
If someone was defrauding the DWP for years and were caught, the DWP may NOT be too keen in going to Court, but would surely rather that the individual was made to pay back any Cash ?
HH
https://twitter.com/SallyCider/status/1195134327761309696?s=20
:-)
HH
KINGLUBO on 14TH NOVEMBER 2019 7:12 PM
BIGJIMMY
…………….
Cheers KINGLUBO for your good wishes. I have some way to go I fear ?
I hope all is well with you.
HH
Good Morning, Good Morning,
As Gay Byrne used to say on RTE in a jolly japing sort of way.
Now, as many will know, yesterday the Times of London no less (can any of you hear Graham Norton’s voice as you read this?) wrote a splendid little article about how HMRC had cocked up the whole Rangers Tax Case and then suggested that the club might actually have been only due to pay £20 Million or so in tax and that had that been the case then David Murray could perhaps have found a buyer and so all this liquidation nonsense could have been avoided.
Amazingly this flight of fancy has been taken on by some of Scotland’s better known “Journo’s” and the whole thing has grown arms and legs of a complete knock about nature thus demonstrating an absolutely astonishing lack of business nous and a total absence of some basic rules of life.
Chief among the totally stratospheric authors of insane musings must come Mr Roddy Forsyth in the Telegraph.
At this stage I should remind one and all that Roddy used to appear on the BBC and was seen as one of those reporters who were a cut above the Chic’s and yon level 5 chap as he brought a bit of gravitas to proceedings.
However, he (a) looked squarely into the camera in 2012 and told the watching public that the administration of Rangers would be a quick in and out technical exercise that would be over in four weeks only to find that this was not only practically and pragmatically impossible and simply not achievable by law and then (b) bemoaned that all across Scotland the business journalists and others of that ilk should have been flagging up the fact that RFC PLC was doomed, and had been doomed for many years, and so the Sports Journos should not be to blame for failing to spot the wild inaccuracies and misleading pieces they had been filing for years.
After that, Roddy sort of disappeared altogether for fear he could not accurately report the time date or year.
However, yesterday he bounded back to life on the back of the Times article and, having failed to learn any kind of lessons from his previous coverage of this story, he informed his readers that:
1. Rangers are now considering taking legal action against HMRC as a result of their seemingly admitted cock up in incorrectly calculating the tax due by the former club.
2. The HMRC investigation in Rangers started in 2010.
3. The biggest single impact on the former club has been the financial and playing gulf that has opened up between Rangers and Celtic since 2010
I could go on and on but you are best to read this drivel for yourselves here – you will note that it includes a quote from that wise old business sage Sir David Murray!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/11/14/rangers-consider-taking-legal-actionafter-hmrcadmits50m-penalty/
Now, I can fully accept that a chap can make a mistake but this article is a riot of inaccuracy and failed analysis, but worse still it shows no common sense and one must question if Roddy should be allowed out on his own or charged with any task, such as boiling a kettle, which might involve engaging the brain.
First of all, let me introduce you to the HMRC Twitter feed (You didn’t know HMRC took to twitter, did you?)
Yesterday afternoon it tweeted as follows:
“As widely reported today and to clarify: HMRC won against Rangers’ tax avoidance in the Supreme Court, and did not miscalculate anything”
That seems pretty blunt doesn’t it ?
And note the use of the words Tax Avoidance and the ever so simple “Did not miscalculate anything” which leaves very little room for argument.
But let’s go back to Roddy from Mensa.
We will ignore the fact that the HMRC investigation into Rangers started in 2004 (he was only out by six years) and his suggestion that Rangers had entered into a perfectly good Tax Avoidance scheme which was only made illegal after they started using it, and we will run straight to his opening statement that Rangers are seriously considering suing the Revenue.
Now, in the name of all that is wise and holy you would think that someone as intelligent as Roddy would stop and think about that one.
First of all, who is going to do the suing?
As I recall much was made of the fact that Sevco 5088 bought the “assets” of the former Rangers PLC .
Surely Roddy is not suggesting that Sevco and RFC PLC are one and the same?
Surely they are different legal entities and as such are distinct from one another?
If that is not the case then there would be no point to the liquidation process.
But even better is the idea that “Rangers might sue” for some perceived wrong — without ever mentioning that there is still £20 Million plus due in unpaid tax together with all the other unpaid creditors and whole host of guarantees to former players saying that should any tax ever become due then the club will pick it up.
Is Mr King going to pay the unpaid tax and then reclaim some of it in damages?
Is Mr King going to pay all the back tax for the players?
The man’s largess and generosity knows no bounds.
Are his lawyers so stupid as to actually suggest that the current Rangers are actually due some money back from the revenue as a result of the old Rangers owing less in avoided and unpaid tax than they thought they were due?
This is incredible stuff from a blat like the Telegraph – although it has to be said that they previously hired Boris Johnson which is pretty damning.
Then Roddy goes on:
“The biggest single adverse consequence for the Ibrox club has been the financial and competitive gulf which opened between them and Celtic after 2012. That gap has only now looked as though it might be narrowed, with the teams separated by a single goal at the top of the Ladbrokes Scottish Premiership table and due to meet in the Betfred Scottish League Cup final on Dec 8.
In the meantime, Rangers legal advisers will pore over tax case law.”
Eh can someone show me where the financial gulf between Celtic and Rangers now looks as if it has been narrowed?
Last I heard was that in the last year Rangers lost around £14 Million and Celtic made some kind of a profit which suggests to this poor fool that one club got richer and the other one got poorer — but what do I know?
As for the Competative gulf – well yes both teams are at the top of the league table – but does being at the top of the league table in November in one year represent the narrowing of a gap which has seen the other club mentioned win every domestic trophy for three years and the league for eight years in a row?
This is bonkers logic.
As for Rangers Lawyers poring over legal tax case law — honestly I will have a pint of whatever he has been drinking!
Strangely, over at the dreadful apology for a newspaper, The Sun, someone had a rush of blood to the head and they thought to contact a tax specialist in London and ask them for an independent assessment of the whole Times Story and an analysis of the HMRC position.
That is the kind of action that a real journalist would take so what they were doing at The Sun I don’t know.
Well, said the expert, everything in the Times report is rubbish and you shouldn’t take any notice of it.
He goes through the whole thing point by point and absolutely trashes the whole nonsense spouted by The Times.
The whole thing is farcical.
We are back to the days of the newspapers, or some of them at least, writing the most inane drivel.
If only Roddy could have found a business journalist or had the insight to contact an expert?
Hang on — did he not moan about that kind of thing before?
Surely he didn’t make the same mistakes again?
Dear God – surely he can’t have been that stupid – or could he?
If Roddy had been on the Graham Norton show you would have pulled the leaver at the end of the first sentence.
Roddy is hoping he can get back his lost Oldco shares….
BRTH
You should send that to Roddy!
Brilliant from you again!
BRTH
Do you suspect as others do, that something else, something bad is heading in the direction of the huns?
If so, any ideas?
Philbhoy
I have genuinely no idea.
I know many are presuming that something bad is around the corner but it could be that it is just a crap story.
Dunno.
But if something is amiss then we will soon find out.
BRTH
BRTH
Thanks!
If you are still in touch with Mary McG please tell her I was asking for her.