This whole blogging business has been a bit dull since those heady days when David Murray’s bombast cast a shadow across the land. When most of the population believed he was the smartest person in the country, when he went as far as to assure us that it was his duty to minimise tax liability!
This place has been all about the football for a while now, which is how I wanted it in the first place. But here we are, Back to the Future, all because of a sloppy piece in The Times, who today used unattributed quotes to suggest that Rangers were victims of HMRC, without a shred of reality behind the claim.
Let’s deal with the simple facts first. The highest court in the land ruled that money Rangers paid footballers and executives through an Employee Benefit Trust scheme was disguised remuneration. They accepted HMRC’s claim that tax was due on this remuneration.
One aspect often lost in time, is that Rangers went into liquidation without ANY court in the land finding against their use of EBTs. It was not the judgement that went against them, it was that they made no provision to trade through the period these claims would be examined.
The club and their investors were either unable or unwilling to put the £18m or so on the table that would have paid Lloyds Group overdraft. This would have prevented the sale to Craig Whyte and the club could have continued to trade until (and perhaps beyond) the conclusion of the Tax Case.
What happened subsequently is just window dressing. They went down for the want of £18m that was used to compete for the Scottish Premier League.
By the time the Supreme Court ruled against them, Rangers were in the hands of liquidators, BDO. Administrators Duff and Phelps agreed to change their name so that the Intellectual Property could be sold to a Newco, along with other assets.
Several matters were not examined by the court, specifically, penalty clauses and whether payments made to players should be considered gross or net of tax. HMRC did not pursue the liquidated company on either question, but – and you really need to suspend disbelief here for a moment, The Times today are under the impression that IF Rangers continued to trade, HMRC would simply walk away, that no penalty clause would be asked for!
Honestly, I have never read anything as purile. When you fail to pay tax due and it is economically worth their while, HMRC always ask for interest and penalty clauses. Always. Even from the Mighty Rangers!
Why, though, is someone peddling this line now? Why blame HMRC when the facts are so patently clear and readily available? When I asked someone who has experience of these matters, I was told, “This is a psychopathic denial of responsibility. Part of a parasitic lifestyle”. When you look at it like that, the whole thing makes sense.
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I firmly believe there is no smoke without fire.
There will be an angle to this non story that has stirred a hornets nest.
GREENPINATA
I am enjoying their supporters wildly misplaced optimism!
Posts on their blogs yesterday were demanding a “tax rebate” and one even valued moreorless at 80-100 million! pounds!
And I thought there were some bampots who posted on here!
Only kidding!
(Well except for GFTB who is a definite bampot!)
;-)
Meanwhile is the elephant in the room about to make another delivery?
Sorry, but this is taken from the daily Hun * sorry record Today )…
HMRC hit back at Rangers tax claims with stinging response
Reports suggested the taxman had overcharged Rangers by £50million but HMRC have denied the claims.
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ByMark McDougall
07:30, 15 NOV 2019
SPORT
HMRC have denied claims they overcharged Rangers to the tune of £50million over the EBT scandal.
A report in The Times on Thursday suggested Rangers should only have been charged £20m for the use of EBTs between 2001 and 2010.
The initial figure of £70m was part of the debts that led to the sale of the Ibrox club to Craig Whyte and the eventual downfall of administration and liquidation of the old company.
That led to angry responses from Rangers supporters and club legends – including Ally McCoist who was manager at the time.
But now HMRC have taken the rare decision to comment on the allegation. The government department normally don’t respond or make comments but made an exception on this case.
(Image: PA)
They took to Twitter to say: “As widely reported today and to clarify: HMRC won against Rangers’ tax avoidance in the Supreme Court, and did not miscalculate anything.”
Yesterday, former Rangers boss McCoist slammed the claims and insisted the miscalculation would have cost jobs unnecessarily.
He said: It’s safe to say it’s the most traumatic time in Rangers Football Club’s history. If there’s mistakes being made then people have to answer questions.
“The legalities of it are still ongoing, I think Rangers won a couple of court cases then lost one.
“David Murray, but the EBTs go all the way back to 2000. A lot of clubs had them, there’s no doubt about it.
“A lot of people felt Rangers were a test case for HMRC, the fact of the matter is we’re reading the front page of The Times up in Scotland they reckon that the tax authorities have acknowledged they claimed too much from Rangers.
READ MORE
Shocking new Rangers tax case claim suggests HMRC were guilty of blunder
“We’re talking in the region of £50m.
“The figures they are speaking about, the claim was around £70m for using EBTs but that figure is now believed to be around £20m. It’s completely different outlook because that’s a debt Rangers could have handled.
“Nothing would have happened. Wouldn’t have gone into administration, wouldn’t have gone into liquidation.
“It was horrendous, the worst part of it was people have lost their jobs needlessly. It’s completely and utterly unacceptable. It really is.”
READ MORE
Rangers FC
Anyone know the outcome of the ol’ Memorial Wall courtcase due to be held yesterday?
BROGAN ROGAN TREVINO AND HOGAN on 15TH NOVEMBER 2019 8:10 AM
Don`t take this personally , but you seriously are an adornment to C.Q.N.
There you have it….Super Sallys EXPERT opinion on Tax Affairs….He really should stick to gardening.
To those huns wanting to take HMRC to court etc….I KNOW from personal experience that it takes a whole lot of Cash to take organisations etc to Court….how do these stupid huns propose that they do that…when they are skint ?
Something tells me that this is going to get even more funnier ?
Maybe HMRC DID miscalculate…..maybe its MORE than £70 Million ?
HH
ETims mentioning that Airdrie’s liquidation process to 7 years to complete… Rangers liquidation process started in 2012….
Good morning CQN, from the Central Highlands, and a happy Friday to all who still work traditional hours. Today has dawned dreich and grey, with a smir of rain. The dusting of snow we had yesterday has gone. Forecast is for things to improve, we’ll see.
I used to work in a busy information service, where weather reporting was a large part of my role. As anyone who works in a reception or information area will know, answering the same questions all day can be a bit wearying. To help me through the day, myself and my colleagues used to attempt to inject some humour into proceedings. Two of my favourites were…
CLIENT, “Do you know what the weather forecast is?”
ME, “Yes, it’s a prediction of what the weather will be like.”
CLIENT, “I see on the BBC five day weather, that the forecast for next Thursday is good”
ME, “Forecasting is becoming very accurate these days, in everything but time. Forecasts for the next 24 hours, are usually close to 100% accurate. However, I would say that the accuracy of the forecast, drops by about 20% for each extra day. So a five day forecast is usually 100% wrong” 😃
Childish, but amusing.
🍀⚽️
PHILBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2019 8:59 AM
I am enjoying their supporters wildly misplaced optimism!
Posts on their blogs yesterday were demanding a “tax rebate” and one even valued moreorless at 80-100 million! pounds!
___
I enjoyed listening to SSB last night. Delusional zombies calling in one after another.
All you have to do is take a step back and look at it outwith Scottish football. This nonsense doesn’t stand up to scrutiny outside of their own fanbase, PR machine & a pliant Scottish press.
Nobody will lend them money. They continue to make losses.
They can’t see it and look for a boogyman in HMRC. This is what killed them last time.
Good Morning, a pleasantly cold and drizzly morning in the Chilterns….
Interesting stuff on Rangers again. It never ceases to amaze the avenues they travel down for redemption.
Didn’t see the aul “Archduke Franz Ferdinand is alive, the Great War was a mistake” route. Still nothing should surprise.
Can’t add much when you have Auldheid, BRT&H and their ilk enlightening us with the aul uncommon sense.
Roddy Forsyth has long been a bug bear of mine, back in the day he had quite a reputation in Scotland which surprised me. As I only listened to him in Five Live as the BBC’s Scottish Football Correspondent it used to amaze me and grate on me how he was praised as a journalist, heading up to the “new” Hugh McIlvanney of Scottish Sports Journalism. While all the time he came accross to me as Mr Rangers Fake News – as they say in modern parlance.
This no one telt us, we did’nae kno’ spiel gets trotted out ad infinitium…
My go to to guy on this is another Rangers’ Hugh, a man of much greater credibility.
https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/hugh-adam-returns-to-haunt-rangers-again-alleges-payments-to-players-were-undeclared/
As was usual, Paul McConville did a great job of highlighting the fact that Rangers “gatekeeper” was ignored for years.
He spoke out in 2002, 2009 and 2012… making a lie of everything Mr Forsyth suggests.
The articles are worth a read if you want to put today’s revisionism in perspective. The 2002 one PMcC refers to us here…
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/adam-shakes-ibrox-pillars-with-warning-of-bankruptcy-1-595808“
What of Roddy Fortyth’s hero. When Hugh Adam was again warning folk of SDM in 2009.
“We [David Murray and he] got on fine in the beginning, but, with David, it gets to the stage that if you do not agree with him he casts you aside.”
That’s what happened to Rangers “gatekeepers” under the Murray regime, of course he couldn’t have got away with it without Roddy and hus lamb guzzling chums.
He let his Club die…
Hail Hail
Yorkbhoy
I understood it was 12 years, but I could be wrong.
HH
If Celtic are looking for some cover for Edouard then Troy Parrott of Spurs should be under consideration.
Troy Parrott? Who’s a pretty bhoy then?
🍀⚽️
Life is full of surprises.
Over the last couple of days I’ve learned that Frederick Forsyth and Joanna Lumley won’t be voting Labour and The Sun has displayed more journalistic integrity than The Times.
Strange days.
HMRC taking a real beating in the Scottish press. Even though the whole thing is complete bullshit, the spin doesn’t reflect well on them at all
Their name is being dragged through the mud and their competency and integrity is being called into question
Surely they need to do more than send just out a tweet?
FRIESDORFER on 15TH NOVEMBER 2019 9:56 AM
Yorkbhoy
I understood it was 12 years, but I could be wrong.
HH
No you are correct… just Googled it and it took 12 years.
HUNDERBIRDS ARE GONE on 15TH NOVEMBER 2019 10:06 AM
Troy Parrott? Who’s a pretty bhoy then?
__
Haha very good
This whole episode is deflection – await the SD settlement being revealed soon and “the we can’t afford to settle because of HMRC” overlooking the small point that RFCIL and sevco are two different entities.
From the about to be nationalised BT: BT announced that it had won the exclusive rights for UEFA European football until 2024.
BT will pay £400m each year for the rights, which represents modest inflation of 1.5% versus the £394mn pa that it currently pays.
BT says it will show an increase of 77 games from the previous deal, but this will be featuring less popular teams in a new Conference League. The number of matches in the flagship Champions League competition remains unchanged at 138.
BHOYLO83 on 15TH NOVEMBER 2019 10:21 AM
HMRC taking a real beating in the Scottish press. Even though the whole thing is complete bullshit, the spin doesn’t reflect well on them at all
Their name is being dragged through the mud and their competency and integrity is being called into question
Surely they need to do more than send just out a tweet
———————
You would think so, especially as accusations abound about it being from a fake twitter account.
This is Scotland: Non ambiguous clarification is required to put the gullibles firmly back in their box.
HH.
Bhoylo83
Not sure it matters much to HMRC. The rabid horde of orcs always believed they were victims and this is a blatant attempt to stir them up.
They are insignificant in the scheme of things so might as well let it blow over. I think they will have to state their position more clearly at some point but that’s it.
Joking aside Parrott looks a great prospect but I reckon Spurs know what they have & he won’t be going anywhere.
THE BLOGGER FORMERLY KNOWN AS GM on 15TH NOVEMBER 2019 10:41 AM
From the about to be nationalised BT:
Not quite
Corkcelt,
So you reckon Parrott won’t be winging his way to Paradise any time soon? 😉
It would be a feather in Lenny’s cap if he could pull that transfer off.
Good morning all from the happy valley of Govanhill. Them ole huns, more comedy turns than the Star Bar. 😂
Super salary said:
“The legalities of it are still ongoing, I think Rangers won a couple of court cases then lost one.”
Sally makes a great point here. If Rangers beat HMRC 2-1 why is everybody saying HMRC won?
Hmmmm looks like I’ve spent too much time on FF!
Aff oot tae the gowf
I’ve heard Troy Parrot is a cracker….
If Deid Club can produce a complete record of all the payments to players, all side letters and other documentation, I am sure it can all get cleared up very quickly.
What next, Deid Club claim a tax refund for all the tax they didn’t pay!!
Trust me – the tweet sent out by HMRC Press Office is 100% correct FACT.
HMRC can never comment on an individual person’s tax affairs. A person includes a company. It is THE line in the sand golden rule. What HMRC can do, however, is draw attention to anything that is already in the public domain – for example court cases. That is why HMRC were able to mention Rangers specifically in the tweet (reproduced below) without saying anything more specific. Saying ‘we did not miscalculate anything’ could not be clearer. The figures that were due to be paid were established long ago and will not be altered. It is simply that the subsequent PURSUIT of payment of those amounts has been revisited and, given that the liquidated company have only limited assets then it makes sense not to waste taxpayers (see what I did there?) money chasing sums that will never be recovered. Here’s the tweet –
HMRC Press Office @HMRCpressoffice
As widely reported today and to clarify: HMRC won against Rangers’ tax avoidance in the Supreme Court, and did not miscalculate anything
Hurry, hurry, hurry. Get rich quick scheme. Don’t miss it.
Sell blood pressure tablets to half the population of Glasgow and their extended families.
I hate to say it but fair play to the Scottish Sun for bothering to speak to a tax expert. They published a Q&A they had with a professional in the field and he debunked all the nonsense surrounding it.
Examples:
2. Ally McCoist believes Rangers wouldn’t have gone bust if it was known in 2012 that the final tax bill would be lower – do you agree?
“I have to say I think that is incorrect given that the liquidation, even after these adjustments, is still only offering pennies in the pound to creditors.”
5. The Times article says up to £50m is set to be wiped off the tax bill. How likely is this, and what would you estimate the final reduction to be?
“I can’t comment without hard figures around some of the variables but I think the important part is that in reality, whether £50m, £30m or £10m, HMRC were never getting that money. It just doesn’t exist.”
8. Is it right to say HMRC could still pursue the full amount or close to it if they wanted, but have simply decided it’s not worth the hassle?
“Correct”
17. Could Oldco Rangers and Newco Rangers join forces if it was beneficial to club?
“Hard to see how that could be done in law, they are two separate entities.”
new article posted.
Morning all …POP ROCKSTAR 1.50 Cheltenham,please. Good luck hh
( If Chelts abandoned Tinto 3.15 Lingfield) ta
3.00 Cheltenham
Eva’s Oskar
Best of luck to all
Cheers GFTB
Ramses De Teille 1.50 Cheltenham
Good luck to all
HH
Eamon An Cnoic 2:25 Cheltenham, good luck.