Pyros, pits, Seville and heritage


Earlier this year I wrote that the pyrotechnics problem was one of the free rider. There are reputational and Uefa fine costs to Celtic, but the perpetrators hide among a crowd, so encounter no costs. Celtic pay the fines, Celtic fans, as a group, carry the reputational damage, those who create the problem act with impunity.

Two who set flares in Istanbul have been identified and banned by the club. This ban will prevent them attending away fixtures in Europe for a considerable time, but it will not prevent them walking through turnstiles at Celtic Park, or some other Scottish grounds. Celtic have announced that they are considering their position and may raise a civil action to recover fines imposed –aligning consequences with actions.

Whenever I hear someone ‘considering their position’ I don’t expect them to act. Those who act tend to only provide advanced notice when legally obliged to do so. There is a flip side to this, however. If Celtic raise an action the issue is dead – it will not happen again. If Celtic don’t raise an action it may well happen again. Steps to hide identities will be improved, perhaps making it impossible to identify another offender. The stock defence of football clubs, “We’ve done everything we could”, will not wash.

It’s only 12 years since 80,000 Celtic fans went to Seville and didn’t so much as spill a drink. What chance that now?

When they were at their peak, 1.2million miners went down the pits in Britain. Before the pits, the population of Lanarkshire was a fraction of what it is now. They build railways in the late 19th century, allowing coal to be taken to the cities and ports, and people were drawn to places like Bellshill, Motherwell, Coatbridge and Wishaw.

This subsequent years saw the greatest migration from Ireland to Scotland, and an enormous migration from rural to urban Scotland. People came to Lanarkshire to work in the coal industry, and to Glasgow and other surrounding towns to work related industries, like shipping and heavy engineering.

The work was almost always dirty, often dangerous and inevitably poorly paid. Poverty and its associated diseases, including social diseases, were difficult to escape. Even today, the twin towns of Hamilton (a market town established for centuries) and Motherwell (a 19th century town established by the coal and steel industries) are separated by a significant gap in employment opportunities, property values and wealth. Physically they are only two miles apart, you can walk between them in minutes.

Football was the real opium of the masses. They worked five and a half days a week, on their half day they went to a game. Entrance was cheap, even the poor could attend, all boys could play, all men could talk a good game (it remained a predominantly male pastime for decades).

Coal, and its by-products: railways and heavy industry, shaped the industrial towns of Scotland, Wales and much of England. Without it, cricket would be our national game (it was once popular even in Scotland). You wouldn’t have Celtic.

Today the last miner will emerge from a British pit, in Kellingley, North Yorkshire. The pits around Lanarkshire are long gone, and there are few bings left. Jobs now are cleaner and safer, but we’ve lost a link to something Celtic fans value more than most, our heritage.

Speaking of which, get to Celtic Park before 13:00 tomorrow. Wallow in the abundant heritage that is Billy McNeill!

We’re shipping same day from CQN Bookstore, but there’s not long left before Christmas!


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  1. Davidopoulus I may be a bellicose bore but at least I am willing to look at the obvious staring us in the face and call it.







    I completely understand that it’s difficult to accept that something that you love is rotten to the core. It’s a part of being human to defend that what you love.







    But the apology I have often drawn is the girlfriend you desperately love and adore (those of us who have occasionally punched above our weight may emphasise with this). You love and adore her, but you sort of know she is cheating on you. You’ve seen the odd text, she is out a lot, seems not as interested in you etc. But you can’t bear to face that truth and confront it because when you do you know that either things will never be the same again or you will have to lose the thing you love.







    So the love that you bear prevents you from facing up to the ugly truth and you start to become a sort of quisling.







    And so it is with Celtic. The club has been an obsession of mine long before the wife and kids came etc. I used to defend everything the club did, partly because we were bestet by numerous enemies.







    But as the years have unfolded I started to see the ugly truth. At first for me it was lack of ambition, that we were massaging our accounts to back up that lack of ambition, to dampen supporter expectation. Time and time again never strengthening from a position of strength. That led to days like black Sunday and I despaired at the needless waste. But the thing is, in those days, the early cqn days, at least I could understand the counter views. The need to be safe, the need to be careful with moment etc. Sure we argued about the detail but having a lack of ambition is no crime and some of the intent behind it was laudable and understandable.







    But with the Huns demise the real ugly truth has emerged.







    Weeminger said earlier that I never answer questions. In fact I always do. The 5 way agreement. I think it is implausible that Celtic didn’t know about it. That’s bad enough. To know and do and say nothing. But worse was that the media called Celtic out regarding their actual involvement in the 5 way agreement and Celtic never denied it. Now we can all hide behind the sofa and pretend that’s cos Celtic wouldn’t dignify it with a response or it’s really clever of Celtic to be silent (they are never silent when it comes to attacking the Celtic support mind) but I am sorry it’s bullshit. If you were being dragged into this debacle and you hadn’t been involved you wouldn’t be slow to deny it.







    Celtic have been involved all the way. You have hear DD and PL on their desire for the Hun return. It’s all about money for them. Racism is good for money. Our downtrodden underdog status is great for business.







    They let ogilvie get elected unoppossed.







    They have said and done nothing while the corruption was laid out before us.







    Paul on this site has waxed lyrical about the Huns demise but has studiously avoided any serious discussion on Celtics actions or inactions.







    And so it feels like your girlfriend has taken to almost flaunting her infidelity in front of you and doesn’t deny it when you ask her. She just won’t speak about it.







    Celtic are up to their necks in this. They know it’s a high risk strategy. They gambled on the racist money as the best bet. Res12 is a thorn in their side. They can’t kill it because to kill it would signify their corruption. But they can’t adopt it either. So they let the fans do the dirty work and hope at some point we will all get bored and move on.







    Moving on was the thing I was waiting on from Paul. He knows the boards strategy on this issue. He knows the time is coming to kill the story and move on. I was wondering what the strategy for doing that would be. Now we know. Celtic will blame it on the other clubs inaction and claim they can’t act alone.







    But we know they never intended to act.







    And the ugly truth is that those who are supposed to represent us are actually our biggest enemy. Because they want to exploit the racism practices against us to make more money. That on its own should be enough to make you want to rebel.







    But if your throw in the fact that it’s is crystal clear to all of us that football inscotland is to all intents and purposes a rigged game then it should be enough to man the barricades.







    maybe if you confront your girlfriend she will realise the error of her ways and change. Maybe you can forgive her and move on. But living with the status quo isn’t living. It’s living a lie, at best a half life with no room left for your own self respect.







    More and more the claims of more than a club ring hollow. The laughable claims of the most ethical club in the world grate on the truth. You cannot be at. One with your self while this lie exists.







    Paul also claims that Celtic don’t employ PR. Well the what on earth is this site and what on earth are Paul’s leaders? They are nothing but club PR.







    And it’s become increasingly tenuous to the point now that it’s downright silly at times. But that’s where the lie will take you. It will take you to do more and more mental gymnastics until you are so bent out of shape you don’t even recognise your self any more.







    I know I can seem over the top I my views at time but the thing is, never have Celtic been in more danger, never. The strategy the board have taken here is the strategy of death for Celtic. We now see the club acting in concert with corruption. It’s laid bare.







    Some may choose to stay with their cheating girlfriend. Many will walk. We will lessen as a result. And as time goes on those who stay will no longer be able to point to Celtic being more than just a club. Any acts of morality will be pissing in the wind to the lie that sits in the director box on a Saturday casting contempt after contempt at the dwindling crowds.







    It may all seem melodramatic. But after all this is the death of something I love. So it feels pretty dramatic to me.










    – See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/milnes-prompt-for-aberdeen-fans/comment-page-13/#comments

  2. Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on




    that´s an a apology of an analogy ;-)










  3. blantyretim is praying for the Knox family on

    Will they complained or raise an action for us who where attacked by Ajax scum or is it not their concert??



    Btw the Pyro clowns should be banned

  4. Celticrollercoaster supporting Shay,our bhoy wonder along the way on

    Good afternoon.



    The Friday night footie quiz returns tonight for a Christmas Special Edition.



    5 rounds of all things Celtic.



    See you all online at 9pm



    There will be prizes as well for the top 3 ( provided you have registered for LMS6 before 9pm).



    Email us on cqnpredictor@gmail.com for more details.







  5. Neganon



    Caught the post on the last article there. Thank you – it was an excellent, considered and empassioned statement of your position and I could never doubt your sincerity.



    I will admit I had some of your posts in mind when I wrote my post, however I was also aiming it at those who attack you on a personal level and not giving your sincere view due consideration – and there are a number instances of that happening to you and others.



    I wish I could reply more fully as your post deserves it, but unfortunately I am out and about now.



    Briefly, we share some views but differ on others.



    Hail hail

  6. Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on

    NEGANON2 on 18TH DECEMBER 2015 1:12 PM



    aye right ….;-)



    You´ll be blaming a lack of eye wear next ;-)




  7. Celticrollercoaster supporting Shay,our bhoy wonder along the way on




    Good post mate, but I sincerely hope you are wrong in the outcome when the time comes to turn over the final cards.



    Sorry to hear about your girlfriend as well :-)







  8. Davidopoulos there is nothing wrong with differing opinions. Too often though I am faced its attempts to dehumanise the poster and to be honest I will just attack back. Perhaps I shouldn’t but sometimes I do.





    I posted this link earlier today,a series about mines and heavy industry after The Great War.






    With 300 years of coal supplies under our soil,we will never again dig it up. I find that so sad.



    As for our UEFA fines,they all stem from repeat offences. The first of which was at the Rennes match.



    Reported by the match commander,an offence never prosecuted before,and a judgement which a first-year law student could have won on appeal.



    So we declined the appeal.



    No,Paul. Don’t be fooled,mate. The club manufactured our first offence simply to teach the GB who was boss. That every step since is reported by a media hostile to us is no surprise.



    They let the genie out of the bottle. Instead of hammering the naive eejits,stand up for the people who matter. Defend them in court. Ask why others aren’t brought to book.



    Naw,too much work. Much easier to hang a few out to dry.

  10. BT


    I would have hoped someone from within the club would have been in contact with those injured on that Thursday night in the Gallowgate, doesn’t help club /supporter relations, have the cops come up with anything?

  11. Paul 67,



    In 1984 there was 170 Collieries in Britain.



    People laughted and shouted lies when the truth about pit closures was mentioned.


    The miners leaded was ridiculed and mocked.



    Undoubtedly he made mistakes , but who was telling the truth and who was the real enemy within.



    Hail, Hail.

  12. Awe naw I can’t blame lack of specs cos they are on my nose at the moment.



    Celticrollercoaster I hope it doesn’t unfold too but I wouldn’t bet against it! As for girlfriend the less said the better. The wife might read it!!!!!M

  13. **** LAST MAN STANDING 6 ****



    Remember, still 10½ hours to enter. Been catching up and now delighted to report that we are currently sitting on 75 competitors and so only 13 short of the magic 88. Come on in…you know you want to!



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  14. Lennon n Mc....Mjallby on

    The modern game could be doing with wee Fred Dibnah atop his prized possession to sort out the mess it’s in.

  15. Neganon2 – just to be clear, I have asked repeatedly what your basis of CFC being involved in the meetings or at least ensuring their desires were met ie pre-meetings with Doncaster and Reagan. It’s that that I’m looking for. As the facts stand I don’t think your assertion can be supported. I know it can be tiresome to put ‘in my opinion’, ‘it’s my belief’ or ‘I think’ in all your posts but it will alleviate this ‘opinion as fact’ badge you seem to get. ;)



    As I said I agree that it would be naive in the extreme to think that all the clubs weren’t aware that some kind of deal would be made.



    I still think though that they’d need to keep themselves at arms length from the details though, unless they were made available to all chairmen in the league set up. Perhaps they were and everybody went along with. I’d find it strange then how secret they’ve kept it.



    Anyway keep it, your at least worth reading.

  16. blantyretim is praying for the Knox family on

    Dessy Bhoy



    Was asking FGF and he has had police Scotland asking for personal details etc





    One of the best warts an all biographies I ever read was about Fred Dibnah.



    I’ve yet to watch a programme he was in,but that book is superb.



    It was written by a close friend,and after his death,and he didnae hold back!


    Leigh Griffiths on a five-year contract?



    Does for me!



    Go on,son. Fire them in and make yourself a legend.

  19. BT-The Board, were quite happy for FOCUS to use Celtic Park as a training ground, and the Celtic fans as target practice.The huns, Aberdeen and Ajax twice , have came to Celtic Park and caused mayhem, without punishment. Ajax ran amok in the city centre, smashed well known Celtic bars, and caused serious assault to owners and punters, Police Scotland know which bars would be busy on a match day, they turned a blind eye, criminal neglect IMO.No questions from The Board, on the protection and assault of Celtic fans, but we are well used to this by now.HH

  20. CultsBhoy can not relate to Celtic Board ambitions on or off the park on




    I’d go further with Pyro Clowns



    Any known associate who attends the match with offenders should also be banned. Self policing – its the only way.


    All Celtic ( or any club) can do is take a zero tolerance and as punitive approach as they can with offenders.






  21. Joe Filippis Haircut on

    GREENPINATA. Fella Scargill got it right and wrong Margaret Thatcher decided if she closed pits the coal would remain underground and increase in value. The UK could important and still can import coal from around the world cheaper than we can mine it the miners strike allowed thatcher to make the miners into the bad guys and they lost public sympathy which allowed pits to be closed.The coal we have underground is unlikely ever to be deep mined again. Any coal we get supplied from UK sources will come from open cast.H.H.

  22. Weeminger. Let’s deal with the “facts” and “opinions” thing. I have noticed that some posters get hung up on this. Hebcelt likes to have a go about this for example. But it’s just bollocks and I have no intention of labelling my posts like this. To be honest I think it’s simply to try and belittle my posts because there is never anything concrete that they have to say to me or my points. It’s a bit like Tony Donnelly who ever avoids awkward conversations by tying to hook on a small point.



    Seen it all before. Heard it all before. Not just here.



    Just folk who do t like what you are saying but can’t find a way to attack it so come up with guff to deflect.



    As for the 5 way agreement it is simply inconceivable that Celtic didn’t know. Sure they publicly would say arms length dos o do anything else would be disasterous. But Weeminger the media called Celtic out on it and Celtic said nothing.



    And the 5 way agreement is not a great secret. It was leaked and leaked and leaked.

  23. The Battered Bunnet on

    It’s not a sad day to see the last of the coal mines closed.



    Nature took 3 billion years to lay down the coal (and the oil), and we’ve spent the lot in jig time.



    The balance between land for farming and land for fuel represented a ceiling on human activity. Society would grow when we cleared the trees for farming, but then contract again when we ran out of fuel. Coal changed that.



    Coal provided 300 years of extraordinary human development. It seeded and fed the industrial revolution, the mdeical revolution, and by extension, the technology revolution. As it did so, it caused, both directly through emissions, and indirectly through consumption of an exploding population, the Climate crisis we continue to pay lip service to, and the Environmental crisis we choose to ignore.



    It’s not a sad day to see the last of the coal mines close. What’s sad is that we’ve burned 3 billion years of nature’s bounty and have developed no sustainable alternative to it.

  24. And There’s Nothing Being Done About It…


    For a good number of years now, certainly since the old club was cheating it’s way through Scottish football, the follow followers of the mighty but now deceased Rangers have had a penchant for using intimidation when things don’t go their way.



    Easily led, they’ve been coaxed by former failed manager Ally McCoist, who can forget his ‘who are these people’ speech, TRS mouthpiece and 48 hours Director Chris Graham, and the man who likes to dress as a Rat, the other blazer chaser SOS’ Craig Houston.



    Our very own Neil Lennon was a constant victim of their bigoted bullying, assaulted at the side of a pitch, sent bombs and bullets in the post, to name but two of the attempts to harm him, however his troubles were diluted by a complicit media who were themselves too frightened to call out the perpetrators.



    Lenny wasn’t the only one though…



    As the slow death of their beloved club came to the fore, the bullies decided to broaden their target base, singling out then BBC journalist Jim Spence, because he dared tell the truth and astonishingly the QC Gary Allan. His family were targeted after McCoist’s outburst about the SFA disciplinary panel of which Allan was a member.



    These instances are only a few of the acts of intimidation carried out over the last few years.



    Any hope of them ceasing was hit right n the head when during a social media conversation, a court reporter, who shall remain nameless obviously, was threatened on a forum by virtue of the poster ‘knowing where he lives’ and send the info on to the VB. (Vanguard Bears)



    Whether or not the gentleman in question takes this kind of intimidation seriously of not, it is another prime example of the mentality of some Sevconians in what they perceive to be their right to bully anyone who doesn’t agree with them.



    Looks to me as if former Sevco director Imran Ahmed was right in his assertion that the judiciary has an ’emotional connection’ with the Ibrox mob….





    Celtic News



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  25. CultsBhoy can not relate to Celtic Board ambitions on or off the park on




    Just shut and stop talking sense…some folk on CQN don’t like the truth









  26. Neganon2 lighten up man chuck her and get another girlfriend!! may be wise to find out why the last one cheated on you was it all down to her or did you bear any responsibility?? H H Hebcelt atrocious analogy

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