The Daily Record today report: “Record Sport understands Rangers would fight tooth and nail against any move to impose more than the statutory 10-point penalty” in the event “the Ibrox side have to start again under a new name”, presumably if the existing company ceases to exist.
If the Record are, in fact, reporting Rangers’ position accurately, this is the first salvo in their campaign to gain control of the consequences of a corporate failure.
The Record go on to say: “Clubs who can’t exit administration by a CVA must hand over their assets to a new entity and after shares [in the SPL]are transferred to a new company agreement has to be reached with the SPL over a return to the top flight”.
The glaring observations from this aspiration is, of course, that agreement does not have to be reached with the SPL over a return to the top flight, and that clubs who cannot exit administration by a CVA (Creditors Voluntary Agreement) must dispose of their assets to the benefit of the unsecured creditors.
The debate is framed by the newspaper to suggest a range of outcomes of between 10-25 points is possible for Rangers Newco FC to pick-up the SPL shares and league position of the existing Rangers FC, with a 25 point deduction being wholly unpalatable to the new company.
There must be absolutely no presumption that a newly formed company, who happen to own Ibrox, are entitled to parachute into the SPL ahead of the current Scottish Football League members, or ahead of an existing SPL team in a relegation spot. In the event of a club failure the league can and, if necessary, must complete the season with 11 teams only.
Scottish football cannot establish a system whereby an oligopoly can vote on a system which stiffs creditors and prejudices competitors outside of the oligopoly. Football across the world is trying to clean up its reputation, we cannot allow Scotland to become a laughing stock. Let your club know your feelings on how they should vote when the time comes. It’s time for fans of Celtic, Aberdeen, Dundee United, St Mirren, Hibernian, Motherwell, Dunfermline and others to make their voices heard.
Read issue 3 of CQN Magazine free online here or buy a print version at Magcloud.
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DBBIA ——
Oopla ! ——- Legendary Stardust Cowboy [ though in terms of sales he was rather Lonesome .}
My underwear froze to the clothes line — Legendary Stardust Cowboy CSC Number 1
james
we are a dignified club
we wouldnt want to change who & what we are and wher we came from to get here.
that mob of scum low-lifes dont give a rats ass.
they will follow follow anything in red white and blue
Philbhoy
Aye, was in a meeting about my idea until 1.00am down at my Mum’s house!!!
Couldn’t sleep as my head was still racing. Can’t mind what I posted, was it about wee Olivia? Ask to see her facebook messages – very very funny:-)
Hope you’re well.
hh
bjmac
The Battered Bunnet/ et al.
OUR BOARD WILL ONLY VOTE AGAINST PRE PACK HUN FC SOFT LANDING BACK IN THE SPL IF, AND ONLY IF, THEY KNOW FOR SURE EVERY OTHER CLUB BACKS HUN FC.
OUR PLC DO NOT HAVE THE BALLS TO GO WITH THE SUPPORT AND STAND AGAINST HUN FC PRE PACK IF THEY FELT THAT OLD FIRM FC WAS UNDER THREAT.
IF OUR PLC BACK HUN FC PRE PACK I WILL RETURN MY SEASON BOOKS. IVE ALWAYS FANCIED LEARNING TO SNOW BOARD AND THIS MAY GIVE ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN.
MWD sorry for shouting.
Davitbhoy and Row Z
Spookily I just logged on to ask exactly the same question, then saw your posts.
Rangers wouldn;t exist and Newco wouldn’t be part of the SPL, so THEY wouldnt have a vote.
Moonbeams WD. \o/ Supporting Neil Lennon 100%. C’mon the hoops. says:
28 October, 2011 at 14:51
I’ll teach you. Frankly any refund from handing mine back in would be quite welcome at this point.
Just back infrom work, Apologies if allready posted and discussed.
listening to Radio 2 this morning and they mentioned that they are changing the legislation which bars Catholics marrying into the Royal family.
A few more hairs being pulled out by the followers of the Huns.
HH
weeminger
Doubt we’d get a refund???
See you on the slopes. :o)
MWD
bjmac
I saw it!
I wasn’t that drunk! Honest!
Glad you are all well!
Would this be a perfect time for Celtic to get there act together with their own rubbish tv station Channel 67?
If the forces of darkness do fold, and Sky do decide to pull the plug, how good would it be to already have a fantastic TV station in place to broadcast all our games to the rest of the world, and be able to charge for it.
I’d certainly be one of the subscribers.
Divitbhoy
I think WE are right. There will NOT be 12 voters since 1 (DER HUN) will no longer exist. In order to fulfill the requirements of 11 positive voters ALL 11 REMAINING CLUBS WILL NEED TO BE UNANIMOUS. If Celtic vote against only 10 positive votes can be had therefore NOT meeting the current rule requirement.
ALSO
In order to CHANGE THE RULE 11 of the 12 would need to attend an EGM and vote UNANIMOUSLY as 11 in order to change the rule to 10 from 11. And crucially that takes TIME!
Simples.
As part of a 2nd prong of avoiding this whole unsavoury re-instatement, as well as lobbying the other clubs with enticements and sharing a vision for a better future, a sustainable future. We should also be pushing for the honours the huns won during their years operating EBTs to help them buy success, to be awarded to the runners-up.
Celtic would gain – 5 league titles – giving 11 IAR, 1 Scottish Cup and 2 league cups
Dundee, Falkirk & QoS would each be awarded a Scottish cup win
St.Mirren, D Utd & Ayr Utd would each be award a League Cup win
So we’re going for 12IAR this season ;-)
hh
bjmac
Wee bump of Paul’s article from Wednesday………….
FANS AGAINST CRIMINALISATION
I know we have Hibs in the League Cup on our mind today but would like to look ahead to Saturday. The umbrella group, Fans Against Criminalisation, have organised a rally in GEORGE SQUARE before our home league game against Hibs. I asked the group who they were, what their objectives are and why we should go along on Saturday, and was very impressed with their answers:
“Fans Against Criminalisation is a campaign group founded by five fan organisations (Green Brigade, Celtic Trust, Celtic Supporters Association, Affiliation of Celtic Supporters, Association of Irish Celtic Supporters Clubs). The campaign was formed on the back of the Green Brigade’s well-received protest at the Inverness game and after many previous discussions between the organisations about the Bill. We decided to come together to campaign against the Bill.
“Our objective is to ‘Kill the Bill’, the first part which deals with ‘offensive behaviour at football’ anyway. We have no problem with the government trying to tackle societal problems like sectarianism but these are not football’s problems alone and where sectarian crimes are committed then existing laws can be used to arrest and prosecute offenders. The new law goes far beyond sectarianism and captures anything that may offend or may cause disorder. This is only applied to football fans and it is ludicrous given that there is little or no disorder in Scottish football grounds and that routine aspects of football rivalry and tribalism will now be criminal offences. Government ministers have said fans who do anything from blessing yourself to singing a national anthem could fall foul of the proposes new law.
“The Government has shown little interest in fans’ views on the Bill. F.A.C. will be campaigning vigorously over the coming weeks and months and will be making our views heard. If the Bill passes then we will continue to protest against it, and challenge it legally and politically. The Celtic support is a very powerful potential constituency and the Scottish Government should be mindful of that.
“The rally is the starting point for the campaign. We need Celtic fans to get along and show their support for the campaign and add weight to our voice. We’ve asked people to assemble at 12.00 and the demo will start at 12.30 with speakers from the campaign. There’s no headline acts – Saturday is simply a time for ordinary Celtic fans to come together and unite against the Bill; a time to come together and send a message to the politicians that we will fight them all the way. Everyone should be doing their best to get along to George Square on Saturday and say no to the Bill.”
If at all possible, get along on Saturday and register your support.
Paul67 –
“Record Sport understands Rangers” – The standard way of presenting a press release (in this case from Media House). The more things change the more they stay the same.
This is not just the opening salvo in an attempt to allow Rangers to gain control, but also the starting point in preparing the Huns for the demise of their club.
Phil’s latest Tweet
Phil MacGiollaBhain To various: Source for 28th as “historic day for RFC” also gave me Sheriff Officer imminent at Ibrox story. He stands by the info.
After what’s happened with the Murdoch empire could they really be seen to be disadvantaging Scottish football even more than they are?
Kojo
I take your point about not caring. That’s fair enough but……………..I don’t think you have a season ticket do you? If and when you actually attend it’s usually by corporate invite in the heated seats n’est pas?
If CFC allow a cheating organisation to manipulate the league to such an extent I will join with others on here and will not renew my season book.
I can then become an armchair fan, just like you, without propping up the VICHY custodians. In the event that any VICHY custodians were removed at some point by FREE Celts I might resume my previous patronage.
However, I shall be in my paid for seat the morrow seeking a silky game and a similar score line please.
UTLR
I applaud what you’re doing, and what you’re trying to achieve.
When are you going to bin the ‘graffiti on the walls’ chorus? Somewhat undermines your position.
For me the best outcome of the implosion of the Tax Dodgers would be Celtic moving south to the Championship. I hope our board and the esteemed Mr Desmond are working on an exit strategy.
I know this might be a bit obvious but wouldnt Rangers current incarnation going to the wall not only leave 11 teams to vote?
bjmac says:
28 October, 2011 at 14:57
Yo ho ho on we go, what do you know it’s 12 in a row
Bye, bye Rangers.
LB
docdocthedoc says:
28 October, 2011 at 15:06
I know this might be a bit obvious but wouldnt Rangers current incarnation going to the wall not only leave 11 teams to vote?
Hibernian are the key voters.
LB
I don’t think Whyte will call in the Receiver till after their home game with DU a week tomorrow. A chance to get a few quid in cash before the 2 week break so Scotland can play an utterly pointless friendly in Cyprus
That gives the SPL/SFA 2 weeks before the Huns are due back in action, to sort things out. If they think this will be wrapped up in a short period of time, then they have another thing coming
HMRC will got after ‘newco’ with everything they’ve got. If they can stop ‘newco’ from fulfilling any league fixtures until the courts decide, that will create a whole host of new issues for the SPL
What happens if Rangers win their disputes with the taxman?
Is that impossible or is the loss and liability incurred now irrevocable working assumptions upon which everything written is founded?
Hail hail?
Estadio
Estadio I think they have conceded that HMRC are not going to lose.
They haven’t said it publicly who would?
Whyte reminds me of our old board. Clueless. Deny everything and hope something turns up. It won’t. They are doomed. They are already lookin g at where they go from administration. I don’t even think he has anywhere near the expertise to fix this.
In over his head.
LB
— PM’s plans to change the anti-Catholic act falls short, says Scottish Church spokesman
A spokesman for the Church in Scotland has greeted David Cameron’s proposed changes to the Act of Settlement with caution as they fall short of allowing a Catholic to become the British head of state.
The Prime Minister (right) announced his plans last week, ahead of the Commonwealth leaders’ summit in Australia later this month. He said the ban on anyone married to a Catholic becoming monarch was an ‘historical anomaly’ and could not ‘continue to be justified.’
Mr Cameron has shared his royal succession proposals with the 15 other countries that have the queen as their monarch but he is not proposing changing the ban on monarchs themselves being Catholic. The British monarch is also the head of the Church of England.
So Monarch can marry a catholic but their children if catholic cannot become monarch. Well we have moved on then.
Paul67 – I would have to agree with Honest Mistake, I think £22m for their assets is low.
If you consider McGregor, Jelavic, Davis, Naismith could all fetch at least £3m each thats £12m
Lafferty, Wallace, Whittaker would all get £2m, that’s £18m in total.
You could sell the rest of the squad for at least £4m , that would get to your £22m. They then fulfil their fixtures from their reserves who dont have a league to play in anyway.
Turning to the deathstar, its only use may be as a football ground, but from having viewed valuations of other sporting grounds, which would not be able to generate the same attendances as there, I think a figure of at least £10m would be achievable on a sale and leaseback. Newco pays a £1m rent, thats £50k for 20 home matches a season, they could easily generate that. Apply a 10% yield on that £1m rent you have a £10m property investment.
My understanding is that the administrator has to do his best for the creditors, although this can depend on who makes the decision to appoint an administrator, therefore he could not be seen to sell the business for £22m when it is clearly worth more, even broken up. He could continue to run the business in the meantime, meaning only admin for the huns, and a 10 point hit, rather than liquidation and the potential to fall down the league pyramid structure if a vote goes against them.
Effectively this should hand us this year’s title, but not guaranteed, with the huns able to continue along as before. Albeit weakened, they will still be able to outbid any other team in Scotland for players, starting with a clean financial slate.
. I can see this being the harshest punishment they will receive.
My dear,dear,dear,dear,friend.. Row Z
Pal.. everything that ye wrote..doon tae the gracious “Invite”,is spookily
accurate..
And . Yes.. Ah dae not hiv a Season Ticket.
Howevahhhhhh…
Ah can assure ye..if the G.A. do manage to remain as a functioning entity..despite
suffering the slings and Arrows of Outrageous Fortune..thanks to the help provided by Celtic, as you speculate..
Ah kin assure ye that Ah wullnae disassociate My guid sel fae the Club,as you
have promised to do, under that scenario.
Fur, My Luv fur Celtic, does not depend oan how the Celtic Board Handle Themselves.
Boards wull come and Boards wull Go..
But, MA Luv and Allegiance tae Celtic, wull last ..
Forever.
Kojo
yer pal… who likes ye aloater
Spongebhoy – I can’t take it any more. Please let them start to experience the point removing, future downsizing, dignity (yeah right) demoloshing karma that they so rightly deserve.
Sannabhoy – am up tomorrow but time is tight. Can you let me have the bank details in case I don’t get time to pop round.
HH
LiviBhoy: 28 October, 2011 at 15:07
“Hibernian are the key voters.”
In what way do you see them as vital?
HH
Estadio @ 15:09
The wee tax case is as good as lost (or to put it a better way, they surrendered!) , the only dispute is whether the fines interest and other related charges as assessed by the taxman are payable. The big tax case is still all to play for and could see them pay nothing or the full £30-70m depending on who you believe.
Moonbeams WD. \o/ Supporting Neil Lennon 100%. C’mon the hoops. says:
28 October, 2011 at 14:55
I posted about this the other day. When I worked in the TO they used to give out refunds if you had to cancel part way through the season. I think the reasoning was that they couldn’t keep money for providing a service that they were no longer supplying.
If questioned whether it was still the case, it might be worth checking out. If the club are threatened with having to pay lots of refunds it might help sway them. Let’s face it there’s no struggle for individual match tickets these days.
Paul67
What are Celtic doing at board level to get the other club owners to vote against such a measure?
TT
Demolishing……
My dear,dear,dear,dear,friend..Estadio @ 15.09
Pal.. Ah see that you have also tumbled tae the Fact that
“What If’s” kin go .. Baith weys!
and kin turn intae being..
“Oan the Ither Haun”
in a Blink of an Eye!
Kojo
yer pal.. who thinks yer swell.
Steinreignedsupreme says:
28 October, 2011 at 15:18
Please read post below.
LiviBhoy says:
28 October, 2011 at 14:38
emsh says:
28 October, 2011 at 14:27
I see nothing other than starting from the bottom of the third division as an appropriate punishment and deterrent to others. 10 points? 25 points? Nothing. Won’t even see them relegated, and is a one season irritation only, for what was a multi-year crime.
Excellent point and one which Dundee United, Hearts and others will be watching closely.
Rangers get a 10 point deduction or similar and manouver their way out of this and get back to challenging for the title in a few years then the others will follow suit. Wait till they have amassed enough points to stay up and then go into administration.
Who then would be our great white hope? (Pun not intended)
Who is very well run?
Who has a very nice modern stadium?
Who has a new training ground?
Who has a nice balance sheet?
Who has underachived as a result of prudent spending?
The answer is our green brothers from auld reekie. Hearts are in a terrible position and Hibernian have watched as they themselves had to be saved by Tom Farmer and the smarmy Jambo’s have rubbed their faces in the misery of their last cup win being in 1902. Hibernian are the club the board would have little problem convincing not voting FC Rangers back into the league.
They have been run well and will not want to see clubs who have not been run well benefit from administration after throwing money at trophies when Hibs have led a sensible approach. They would also love to put Hearts down a few leagues and they detest Rangers as much as we do.
Hibernian’s chairman Rod Petrie would have to face the wrath of his own fans if he doesn’t vote against Rangers going down as their fans would be concerned that Hearts would follow this route and get off lightly.
Can Hibernian & Celtic get together and agree on this?
I think it’s our only hope to banish Rangers down at least one league.
Thoughts?
LB
anybody know who from S.P.L met gov mininters this morning re huns and wee huns going into admin.very shortly.no? me neither.2 new huns names reg.on thursday?? that was rangers.def def happening.but also the H.M.R.C’s will not give up .word is only 2 clubs can survive this.us and hibees.go on somebody call me a hun.how do yee’s like them granny smiths.
Pmacgiollabhain Phil MacGiollaBhain
From legal source: Major crisis meeting being held at Ibrox now.