Let’s get the result out of the way first. We went out to a weaker team who were nonetheless very well-drilled in defence. AEK scored with their only two attempts on goal last night and with one of their two at Celtic Park. This contrasts greatly with our chance conversation rate. It hurts and is money left on the table.
Recruitment is correctly at the heart of the inquest. Not only did nine of last night’s starters play under Ronny Deila, seven of them were once the heart of Neil Lennon’s team. Only Olivier Ntcham and Jack Hendry were brought to the club by Brendan Rodgers. One of Moussa Dembele or Odsonne Eduard, both Brendan signings, would have started if fully fit, while the Belgian, a Ronny signing, would have started in other circumstances.
This is Brendan’s fifth transfer window, so why do so many remain from the Ronny/Neil eras? There are good reason and bad reasons. McGregor, Rogic and Forrest have improved significantly under Brendan. We want more like this.
We only have accounts for Brendan’s first year, which show a £13.8m spent on player registrations. Since then we have bought big ticket players like Ntcham and Edouard, and more. Total spend will not be a whisker below £30m. Profit for Brendan’s first year was £6.9m. We could spend more (always), but we are still in an expenditure territory that AEK could not dream about.
I wanted John McGinn, but he is irrelevant to last night. He would not have displaced Ntcham or Brown. Not only was John not a solution, he was yet another squad player!
I’m not saying it’s easy, in fact, it’s difficult. We did not fall to a team who necessarily had a better plan for their recruitment budget, every season there is an AEK who hit the right numbers and over perform, before reverting to the mean. These are the perils of qualification.
We do not have a viable plan to continually qualify for the Champions League, and failures like this hurt. But we have been here before.
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kevin de bruyne out for 4 months with a knee injury
in unrelated news, celtic try to appease fans anger by signing manchester city midfielder kevin de bruyne on a 4 month loan deal
;-)
This is pretty much drivel. Brendan not buying this selective rationalisation and neither am I. Hendry never good enough for these ties. Should have brought Schar in. Pedro decided nyet. We had the money. Brendan won’t stay for this. The relationship with Pedro looks irreparable.
Just had a nice cold swim in the sea to-day which has revived me somewhat after the disapointment of last night. It was a strange type of game indeed, it has all been well documented about unbelieveably nervy and careless start to each half but Celtic with 63% of the play were the better side on the night and the Greeks were out on their feet which was obvious from the body language going into the final twenty minutes and a fair reflection of Celtic’s fitness level playing in that kind of heat. A Celtic victory looked the likely outcome at that stage after Sinky’s brilliantly headed goal.
Celtic despite winning seven corner kicks – I don’t think AEK had any- we never looked like scoring from any, something needs sorting here. However we now move into the Europa League where there are no shortage of very good teams the prize money being the only difference.
Celtic have another few weeks to strengthen and the big European nights can still be a major part of the season to look forward to.
Great to see Calmac and Jamesie at the top of their game in these European ties.
See were are to get a mention on Reporting Scotland, now if we had won…………
BBC coming up……….” Worrying times for Celtic”
Wee Jackie Bird
Fanatic – yeah the technology – over my head
We get beaten in a CL qualifier and BBC Scotland’s headline suggests this signals a change in the balance of power in Scottish football. How does that work then?
HEADTHEBALL
Drums fingers on dinner table and tuned in here to find out
As ever CSC
We can basically argue who is to blame until the cows come home but last night’s tie (over 2 legs) was lost due to lack of continuity. There has been no continuity in our attack for over a year now due to continuing injuries to our strike force (this needs to be investigated). Our top goal scorer last season was Scott Sinclair, who by all accounts and purposes is ‘useless.’ Nobody burst the 20 goal barrier which is incredulous for a team that won its 2nd successive treble ???????
It is somewhat ironic that Wee Jamsie, a constant occupant of the treatment room has remained uninjured for the same length of time as our strikers have been injured. Life is indeed strange.
Last night saw us go into the tie with no continuity in defence, KT and Jack Hendry being the most regular defenders. It was going to be a difficult ask in defence with Ajer and, dare I say it, Boyata missing. That being said our defence no matter the make up of the central partnership and our sadly waning RB was ever going to be good enough for Europe, CL or EL.
The McGinn saga is one we could have done without but if your very successful manager asks you to buy what in reality is a modestly priced player then you pull out all the stops, especially if you have the cash in the bank. Dafabet must be wondering why they entered into that new sponsorship deal after the fiasco of the last 10 days. Under no circumstances should an accountant be allowed to interfere with football matters, that’s not or should not be his remit.
We need to bring in a person or persons who can organise a defence, whether that be a player(s) or not is unimportant but it needs to be done.
https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/celtic/2017-18/top-scorers.html?no-amp=1
Brendan and Honey G shoot the crap.
I’m sure many have seen this before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0t-7HwpYQ0
I challenge the widespread notion that ‘we were the better team’ in both ties.
Yes, we played some pretty football, especially in the opening half hour of the first match.
But the ‘better team’ won. And it wasn’t us.
HH jg
Oh Kris, go look at yourself.
It’s ok……………………. it was only Kris Commons media tart again
Cracked crest on BBC North Brit..
Auldheid @ 4:18 pm,
”Excellent contributions, separating the wheat from the chaff.
Not maintaining the squad strength needs an explanation for maintaining strength whilst Rangers upped theirs clearly did not happen.
Is it a clash of club policy or personalities?
I was thinking last week that to get out of this Celtic are going to need another Road Show, but that would require PL and BR at the top table to explain the failure.
If we were to add to the current carfuckle the failings to shareholders on Res12 the cry would be Timber!!
An absolute irony in that what was an attempt to bring about SFA reform might bring about Celtic’s.”
Well that’s certainly true, we have not strengthened that’s for sure. We need quality in key positions, we need more experience in key positions.
It would be a huge embarrassment this season if we don’t win the championship by a good margin, win a cup and do much better in Europe in relative terms.
As we discussed t’uther day, I believe it’s the Club policy that is out of kilter with the building of a strong sustainable squad. Add to it some strong and determined personalities and we really need a serious coming together…
TBB @ 12:51 pm,
”…There is an unresolved debate as to how the shape of our business model ought to change given the extraordinary and unique financial position of the club.
The conservatively-minded executive are concerned to avoid cost inflation.
The football-minded management want better football players.
The cash needs to be applied to best effect, or it’s squandered backfilling for results like last night’s.
Until that debate is resolved, we can expect disharmony and underperformance.”
This is the key points. I’d add to that as a business, some at Celtic seem obsessed by the money making model that brings in prospects like Wanyama, VvD and turns over a profit as quick as possible. With Celtic’s ability to find and develop these players then sell them to the most over inflated market in World Football, south of the border. You can see why this easy money is tempting to some.
I’m sure they have their eye on Dembele, Tierney, Ntcham, this season, Ajer Edouard next season for a cash stream that is so much easier than having to deal with the investment and development of a football squad.
They are developing young footballers to harvest in much the same way a farmer rears and fattens a young bull.
It’s their mind-set, it’s why they would negotiate with third parties and sell of Boyata without a thought or even a courtesy towards the head of football operations.
A review of Celtic’s priorities is well overdue, we are a sports club, a football club and as you say, maybe the importance of issues like Res12 will be looked on with greater seriousness.
Hail Hail
Jim Duffy says sevco have closed the gap!!!!!!!Jesus Mary two games played.I thought that debate would be open to question…..say February or march.
“We have been here before”….. Not acceptable….
JAMESGANG
Agreed,
We won the possession battle and not much else.
I honestly dont think much of anything will change. We had a chance to make a difference, but we let it slip through our fingers. And we are now where we are …
DD calls the shots. And all he cares about is, at some point, being able to sell his shares for as much as possible. Nothing more, nothing less.
Until then, he (i) doesn’t want us to lose money, and (ii) sees having a good rivalry with Rangers as part of the business plan. This meant, not doing anything that would have driven them under (hence the silence for the last six years), and means, neither side being too far ahead of the other (or it will, at some point, diminish the rivalry).
It is sort of like the NFL (National Football League… not Neil Lennon) … the draft system where the weakest teams draft the best players and get easier schedules, is used to articfically created parity. Why? Because domination by one team is seen as bad for business.
the problem, of course, is that while we did not kill the zombies off when we had the chance… I think their hatred for us would trump their greed, and they would kill us off if they had the chance.
wee man your talking more sense than most on here…
smiley keep on the braw road thing
dinae forget you have a load of big braw pals on here that have your back…
Braw
Help required
I am coming up for the Aberdeen game on Saturday 29th September, will the game still be on the Saturday ?
Cheers ..Eratic
Off course assuming we get through to Europa league stage…
Eratic. Group stage schedule
Matchday Dates Matches
Matchday 1 20 September 2018 2 v 3, 4 v 1
Matchday 2 4 October 2018 1 v 2, 3 v 4
Matchday 3 25 October 2018 3 v 1, 2 v 4
Matchday 4 8 November 2018 1 v 3, 4 v 2
Matchday 5 29 November 2018 3 v 2, 1 v 4
Matchday 6 13 December 2018 2 v 1, 4 v 3
No Eoropa league games scheduled before Aberdeen game.
Hail Hail
Thanks JNP
Looks like I could be okay, paid for flights and hotel etc.
Hail Hail
Eractic.
Good stuff, that would have been sore if fixture was moved.
Hopefully you will see a hoops victory.
Hail Hail
MiT
I hope you are very wrong about change, the rest I agree with.
CHAIRBHOY on 15TH AUGUST 2018 6:56 PM
I agree with you.
I think Brendan has always said that he wants to break the model of selling our stars and starting again each summer – the model that Lenny finally had had enough of when he walked – and he has been as good as his words by tying up the likes of Keiran, Tom, Odsonne etc to long contracts.
Suspect that was the point where Peter L said something like “Aw, hold on… we’ve done all this… and now you want more?”
To which the only logical answer is ‘Yes. We need the heart of a new defence. And we need to be buying for the long-term future.And we’ve got the money, so go get them; here’s the list.”
I have admired Peter Lawwell’s work in his natural habitat, which is counting beans. He has established us as one of the best-run clubs in the UK, in the balance-sheet league.
But two things.
He isn’t the de facto director of football. He counts beans. He is very good at counting beans, but not at the machinery of putting a team on the pitch.
He has been here since 2003, which is – to me – an unhealthily-long time for a CEO. I would imagine that, after 15 years of mostly praise, there might be a bit of the Caligula complex kicking in.
We have in my opinion the best manager we’ve had since Mr Stein, and a lot of money despite last night’s agony.
The manager’s philosophy of succession, tying up our prized playing assets and growing a culture of stability and progress is IMO the right one.
I hope this head-to-head butting session can be fixed but, if not, there’s only one winner in my Celtic heart.
Anyway. I can’t wait for the weekend. Mon the Bhoys!
Oh Dear, we lost two games of football we should not have lost. !!1 Do we have some divine right to win every game, if so, how boring would that be.
We have a very good squad of players, agree we need some new blood but these guys in the main have brought us much success. So, my tip is, Panic ye not, Brendan will sort it out, honest.
KINGLuBO
MIKE IN TORONTO. how are you and seamus nothing will change you are right. think of the old firm bigot pound. celtic could have had them by the short and curlies but chose not to, it feckin scunners me to say it but we are going backwards, such a shame because Brendan imho. is a good manager if left to manage hh.
Good words KINGLUBO
Brendan is still learning, he is what 44/45 years old and is a very clever man, lets see what he can do.
KLV
Paul67,
Are you going to amend your article to correct the factual inaccurate statement about Brendan’s spending? It’s almost as if you are trying to suggest that Brendan has received ample funds and that this failure can be placed at his door.
A change of CEO would accomplish what exactly? We are a PLC.
His / hers remit would still be decided by the board of directors.
It is unlikely the purse strings would open dramatically.
HH.
I only logged on to say three things:
50 SHADES OF GREEN on 15TH AUGUST 2018 6:05 PM
Beginning to miss reading the papers.
1/ Very funny, laughed out loud.
***
2/ Please remember that the players undoubtedly read this, have a wee bit grace for the young guys finding their feet, they need our support.
***
3/ Yip we are all disappointed and feel we should have done better, it didn’t happen but we are still the Celtic Family.
The Kris Commons article is interesting, not so much the nonsense and unsupported conjecture spouted by Kris but the spreadsheet highlighting the failure of Celtic’s recruitment policy since Brendan Rodgers arrived…
2016/17
Scott Sinclair – Aston Villa – £3.69m
Eboue Kouassi – FK Krasnodar – £3.15m
Cristian Gamboa – West Brom – £1.08m
Kristoffer Ajer – IK Start – £540k
Kolo Toure – Liverpool – free
Moussa Dembele – Fulham – undisclosed compensation fee
Dorus de Vries – Nottingham Forest – free
2017/18
Olivier Ntcham – Man City – £4.5m
Charly Musonda – Chelsea – Loan (£2.25m)
Jonny Hayes – Aberdeen – £1.32m
Jack Hendry – Dundee – £1.23m
Marvin Compper – RB Leipzig – £1.03m
Lewis Morgan – St Mirren – £306k
Kundai Benyu – Ipswich – free
Odsonne Edouard – PSG – loan
Patrick Roberts – Man City – loan
Scott Bain – Dundee – loan
2018/19
Odsonne Edouard – PSG – £9.27m
Scott Bain – Dundee – free
Emilio Izaguirre – Al Feiha – free
Now, is it only me who doesn’t see the profligate spend on rubbish footballers. Sure it’s mixed but I’m not seeing the fortune we have spent on failed footballers.
It’s kinda disingenuous to say in the leader that only two players were BR’s while the rest were Lenny’s and RD’s – Lets look at the starting eleven from last night…
Gordon
Lustig
Jozo
Hendry – BR
Tierney – Celtic Bhoy
Broonie – Strachan
Ntcham – BR
Forrest – Celtic Bhoy
Rogic
Mcgregor – Celtic Bhoy
Griffiths
So the reality is, for all the projects, prospects and players that Lenny and RD brought in between 2010 and 2016 we have starting…
Gordon
Lustig
Jozo
Rogic
Griffiths
In the squad we also have…
Allan
Bitton
Boyata
Christie
You would really need to explain to me why it is perceived our recruitment has taken a nose dive under Brendan Rodgers.
In fact if you try, I’ll think you’ll struggle, to get a BR first eleven out of our current squad… maybe this…
..……………………..Bain
……….Gamboa…..Ajer….Henry
Morgan…Kouassi…Ntcham…Hayes…Sinclair
..……………Odsonne…Dembele
Which may reinforce the argument against Brendan’s recruitment, yet I think it tells a different story, it says Brendan has tried and in many instances succeeded in working with Celtic’s existing squad (when he arrived) to improve, enhance and add value to it. He has not been supported in bringing in defenders.
Many of the players he has brought in are good prospects that he hopes he can develop into better players. He’s had two seasons, he’s made great strides with players and his Celtic are a work in progress.
Hail Hail
@ CHAIRBHOY on 15TH AUGUST 2018 7:53 PM
Good comment. I would add that the figures used for Commons’ article are from Transfermarket which is known to be a pretty inaccurate source; so unsurprising that it was used by the media.
Compper was a massive cock up – but how can you tell the future?
I haven’t read back but have read the header article. Apologies to anyone who has posted similar thoughts.
The ‘Investment in football personnel’ reported in the accounts as pointed out was £13.6m.
From the reported fees the total I get is £8.46m for players. Where is the disparity? If you include add ons for Sinclair you could perhaps have a million?
Why are we referring to football personnel? Is it coincidental that we hired Brendan Rodgers et al in this period? Could this figure include Rodgers salary?
If that is the case and you are after the raw spend we have on purchasing players then we shouldn’t start with this figure. More accurately if it is the spend that Brendan Rodgers has had in purchasing players from other clubs should it not be £9m tops for that year?
Starting from there and including the £3m income we have £6m net spend in season 1.
In season 2 we have the 9m spent again. Ntcham, Hayes, Morgan, Compper, Hendry, Loan fee for Musonda. However we gained a substantial income of perhaps £8m from the sell on of Virgil Van Dyke and sold Sviatchenko and Armstrong prior to the close of June. Another £8m income. Net £7m income prior to the end of the accounting period.
This season and accounting period so far has £9m on Edouard but we are up £7m. Net of these two is £2m plus the £6m net in season 1 = £8m.
Yes we have spent a lot but it avoids income and there is some smoke and mirrors around investment in football personnel!
@ MULLET AND CO 2 on 15TH AUGUST 2018 7:57 PM
I thought the same as you earlier today and posted the below:
When I read “We only have accounts for Brendan’s first year, which show a £13.8m spent on player registrations.” I was initially sceptical of this figure and decided to look at the accounts directly.
Investment in football personnel
Paul’s conclusion that we spent £13.8m on “player registrations” is drawn from page 2 of the accounts. The statement itself is located in the final bullet point under the heading “Financial Highlights” and reads as “Investment in football personnel of £13.8m”. Now, the term “football personnel” is, as far as I can see, undefined within the accounts. So I’m unsure exactly what it encompasses. Evidently, it will include transfer fees for the purchase of players. However, it could very well contain a lot more than that. Paul has concluded that “investment in football personnel” is analogous to “spent on player registrations”.
Net Player Trading
Page 15 of the accounts details player spending.
It states that Celtic spent ( or technically speaking “Amortisation of player registrations”) £7.5m (a 50% increase on the previous financial year) on registration of players “…as a result of investment in the first team squad”.
It states that Celtic’s “Gain on sale of player registrations” was £2.3m (2016: £12.6m), “…reflects gains achieved in the sale of Stefan Johansen and Stefan Scepovic in comparison to VVD and Adam Matthews in the prior year”.
Net spend: £5.2m
Now remember, these accounts are to 30 June 2017, that means they include figures for players purchased in both the summer and January window.
Conclusion
Willingly or otherwise, Paul has misconstrued Brendan’s spending on “player registrations” in his first year at the club. Brendan spent £7.5m on “player registrations”, about half of what Paul claimed. Of that his net spend was £5.2m. That means that we purchased the following players NET for £5.2m: Sinclair, Kouassi, Gamboa, Dembele and De Vries (I‘ve excluded Toure).
With a spend of £5.2m Brendan qualified for the CL and completed an unbeaten domestic treble.