Well done to the Daily Record for revealing that SFA referee, Eddie Smith, was the policeman who reported Celtic fans to Uefa for singing offensive songs against Rennes last month. Smith was one of the referees who declined to make his services available as referees went on strike last season while Celtic took-on the SFA amid accusations of lies, bullying, sectarian behaviour and cover-ups among referees at the association. He is no longer on the Grade 1 list.
Following the strike the SFA Head of Referee Administration was removed from his post and referee, Dougie MacDonald, who was accused of lying to Celtic manager, Neil Lennon, resigned, prompting then-Celtic chairman, Dr John Reid, to say the club felt vindicated in raising their concerns.
Vindicated, no doubt, but with more than a few feeling bitter towards the club.
While the Daily Record can reflect on some good work today, bizarrely, the Scotsman newspaper accused Celtic fans of sectarian chanting at the Rennes game, something even police-gossip, Eddie Smith, didn’t accuse them of.
Why stop at accusations of sectarian behaviour? If the Scotsman are going to be ridiculous, why not accused Celtic fans of genocide and treason? Better still, just say lots of them have funny names, go to strange schools but will never ascent to the British throne.
Celtic have 123-years of non-sectarian history, it is downright offensive to suggest otherwise.
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I see that #replacesongnameswithcurrysauce is trending on Twitter.
Can I suggest Ooh Aah Up the Raj?
The Boys of the Old Biryani?
For Its a Grand Old Tikka To Pilau For
Dunno if Wok On fits the criteria though.
Saint Stivs says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:13
**********************
That Joe you were speaking about…….. the Holy family up the Port was heaving on Saturday I’m told, in a commemoration to wee Joe who was indeed a RGT…… simultaneouly a mass was said for him in Rome….. he would have been proud but its sad to lose a really good one of youre own kin! wee Derryghirls kin I mean.
Vinny
HH
Rabid Bhoy
”I guess what I’m asking is how far should we go in defending freedom of thought and expression including religion and culture? (The answer as far as I’m concerned would be: to the death), ”
Well feel free to defend your thoughts, expressions to the death. I’d feel the same… if there was any reasonable threat to them, but, ehm we’re talking about a football match. I can assure you that when death goes back on the football agenda you can forget all about football.
Let’s assume you’re using ‘death’ figuritively, and let’s also assume that really, the very last thing you and your family could be bothered with is any form of violence or hassle or death-like stuff in association with you watching football. Jeezo my other half get’s annoyed if I play football within a month of a holiday, so how she’d feel about me defending my right to sing about defunct and now redundant terrorist organistions to the death is relatively obvious. If I assume these things and give you the benefit of the doubt, do you think such language is appropriate. Don’t you see that some fans would think that way, don’t have loved ones who mean more to them than a football club, and perhaps aren’t in the right place in their lives in this moment to recognise that football is not life and death and if they only sought a bit more there is more to life than a football obsession?
Sure lives have been lost in puruit of freedoms, in the past. Hopefully few will be lost, in our society, in the pursuit of freedom and fairness in the future, but, it may just be necessary. However, if any live is lost because of the songs sung in a football ground it’s a tragedy of unspeakable proportions, and not a price to be paid from freedom of speech.
coorslad is Neil Lennon says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:29
Glad a few got the horse on E/W..
Vmhan,The scarf will be waiting for you when you arrive in Derry!!
***************
Decisions , decisions!…… the boss will decide mi amigo! the pull of seeing the bhoys …… my spiritual home of Doire……
V
HH
Che
How about ‘arthurs alliterations’ or ‘the rolling synonyms’…
TET
i’d bite your hand off for a chance to play anywhere else.
p
hamiltontim says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:38
before my time mate, but ive heard my da speak of them.
Paul67 et al
Whatever way we look at it, and believe me we will look at from every which way over the next three weeks or so, the fact is that in the context of sporting bulletins going round the world, Celtic Football Club are being linked with the IRA. Just think about that for a second, because that is the reality we face. Now, I was not at the Rennes match, but it was shown on ESPN, and after I am sure I posted something on here about the supporters getting right behind the team. I cannot specifically recall, unlike Eddie Smith, every song sung or chant chanted, or which ones were likely to offend, or indeed breach the UEFA, if not yet the SNP rulebook. I would accept though, that it is always a possibility, given the scope a word like ‘political’ can bring to any possible interpretation. It is not just about a songs debate any more, the fact is our Club is being brought to book, at European level, and whatever way we look at it, we cannot be happy about that.
Four leaf clover on my Chicken Breast
Doh! How could I forget the Merry Pilau Boy!
i’d even buy season tickets if i couldn’t use them.
p
Bonty
Who are these ‘now redundant terrorist organisations’ of which you speak?
Vmhan♣ who Supports Neil Lennon says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:34
Saint Stivs says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:13
**********************
That Joe you were speaking about…….. the Holy family up the Port was heaving on Saturday I’m told, in a commemoration to wee Joe who was indeed a RGT…… simultaneouly a mass was said for him in Rome….. he would have been proud but its sad to lose a really good one of youre own kin! wee Derryghirls kin I mean.
Vinny
HH
—————————–
I passed by as it was coming out, I couldnt make it myself due to family duties, it was heaving.
And your right, he was the best of RGT’s.
The Battered Bunnet says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:41
chuck it we all know your trying to curry flavour with the hun interlopers on the blog
CQN Paul Brennan
Did an interview with @BBCchrismclaug this afternoon for RepScotland.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Paul67 whoring himself to the “timmy” BBC? ;)
Should be interesting though :)
Che
Ya cheeky bizzum, I’m a youngster I’ll have you know :)
Fritzsong @ 15:31
It is most definitely a free-speech issue – and if they are successful with this bill, you can guarantee that soon enough someone caught expressing the sentiments being criminalised nowhere near a football match, (say for example, while doing the huddle on Wishaw Main St), will be arrested. This will happen regularly until one of the prosecutions actually makes it to court and is thrown out (Edinburgh juries permitting).
You rightly introduced the Latin phrase: “Quis custodiet ipsos custodies”. These things begin with an erosion of free-speech using meeja manipulation to create the fitting environment. Stop & search, identification and video filming of innocent folk on their way to a football match using so-called anti-terrorist legislation. It’s all happening right now and has been for some time.
Bouncboy,
No answer to my last question – granted you’re busy just now propogating your opinion. Answer me this then, where else outside of football grounds do you think it would be acceptable to ban songs that celebrate Irish freedom?
JinkyvJohnGreig-saysitall says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:19
I can see your point, but I believe that come what may, the last few titles, and this one as well, had the hun name on them, and they got them, the performances of the sfa and referees are there for all to see.
The caves safe :>)
Mountain_Bhoy
I noticed that the other day and posted about, no uptake on the reply, no unusual btw, times are a changing mi amigo, money is talking louder than ever, and in a footballing sence, Celtic have one of the loudest voices, we have money ,or at least are not in debt like most of the big clubs, we have a potential second to none, and people outwith the confines of scotland know this and are willing to invest serious money on an outcome as I have outlined.
Big Packie’s Accent
I’m not sure if that’s a question or a statement, but assuming it’s a statement – so what? I don’t pretend not to have an ego, but I don’t post flawed arguments that have no mileage whatsoever and I don’t understand what other motive those who do have. I mean does any serious adult honestly think there is anything to be gained from this whole he said/she said farce we play out with the other mob? If you can put together a cogent argument then you can only be doing to fuel your ego, because the reality is screamingly obvious – there is no winning strategy other than everyone grows up and stops trying to defend the indefensible.
If there are bigots in the police and the SFA and at the clubs or on the parks then letting other bigots lead the charge to the light is only going to perpetuate a ridiculous scenario. It is ridiculous and we shouldn’t ever make the mistake of taking the substance too seriously. Sure the outcomes can be serious, but the context isn’t. Humanity, eh? So, why accept the premise. If you are moral then you can have no problem with my argument, even if you don’t like my tone. At least my hoped for outcomes are realistic, probable (even inevitable) whereas most of the arguments on here aren’t ever going to happen… what is the point in that.
Saint Stivs says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:42
Vmhan♣ who Supports Neil Lennon says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:34
Saint Stivs says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:13
**********************
as an aside,
i was looking at the pictures of Hoopie at Celtic Park last week, they do bring a wee chuckle.
and on route to a London mtg I was deliberating whether to buy another and take some pictures while darn sarf.
I didnt, and immediately regreted it when I got throught the airport and a few famous faces were on the same flight. Photie opporchancity missed.
The Balti Mountain Boy
One of the issues with having a CEO with a diminishing popularity is that utterances that are condescending are more likely to be resented than when they come from a respected source. Peter Lawwell using the high profile AGM to bring up this very topic is being rammed down all our throats in the quotations in almost every piece from Sky, the BBC and the other media, doing the Club no good at all in its own defence. “Celtic” “IRA” “Embarrassment”. Use at will, pad it out with whatever you like. Shooty in Peter.
Peter has also said in the past that Celtic has eradicated offensive singing from the home support so it wasn’t a timely comment or foresight, it’s the home crowd that are the subject of the charge.
But nevertheless I’m not saying it’s a case that if you hide the issue then there isn’t one, so let’s look at what the issue is. OK, I’m stuck now. What is the issue? We can’t go on about PIRA chants or anything else at all until we know what has been reported. I don’t remember any PIRA chants at Celtic Park for years. Offensive or ‘illicit’ needs to be defined so we as a support can have guidance. Are UEFA willing to do this? The Scottish Government aren’t.
If something isn’t legally actionable then there’s pretty much hee-haw that can be done about it, nor should it. That’s why they are trying to change the law – and they admit it – to have carte blanche to make Celtic fans’ movements and words offensive.
Songs of historical significance may not be everyone’s cup of tea and that’s fine. Don’t sing them. That’s democracy and freedom. I choose not to at Celtic Park s it happens. I believe UEFA do not allow political displays, visual or vocal. Again, that’s fine, but they will need to define where we have erred if any complaint is to be upheld. The political situation in Ireland is relatively stable, I don’t think any of the songs affect, or seek to affect that.
Football Clubs across the world have been outlets for society in more than just passion for football, an alternative focus in some instances, a focus for charity on others and even in some places borne of political movement. But let’s be clear. Here in Scotland Celtic Football Club has been a target of anti Catholic and anti Irish behaviour. Our Protestant, Muslim, Black, Yellow, Sunburnt, Disabled, Bearded, Agnostic and Atheist brothers, who have always been welcomed and part of a Club forever open to all, stand together in support of the team and in defiance to oppression, thuggery, refereeing and football institutional bias and is something that we are rightly proud of. But to pretend that the Irish diaspora does not constitute a massive part of the cause and spread of the good Celtic name would be silly. But it is only that part of the support that is ‘offensive’. And to be honest it’s the oppression of that section that ultimately perpetuates the singing of the songs that ‘offend’ the oppressor. F-the SFA apparently doesn’t register on the reportable song book, nor does the mason in the black, nor calling Alan Shearer a self indulgent footballer who will go blind if he keeps that up. I worry that too many worry for the Club and not for their civil rights. Pursue the promise that Celtic will be fine as long as their Irish and Catholic fans give up their Irish and Catholic identity. It’s for the good of club you understand.
Then there’s the perception of the Club and its roots from outside the UK and to assess if we are worrying about the Club’s reputation or pandering to the internal bigots. Let’s look at Barcelona here and ask whether it’s time they gave up any notion of being Catalan and not Spanish. Disgrace, eh? Offensive, eh? Nah, actually it doesn’t bother me in the slightest, it gives me a sense of their cultural identity and good luck to them. How many people beyond the UK look at Celtic’s traditional Irish support and think ‘good for them’ rather than ‘offensive terrorist supporters’? From personal experience it’s only the former I’ve encountered.
So it’s time for people to put cards on the table and get to the crux. No one wants to define what’s offensive, because ‘offensive’ is Irish. Or Catholic. And without definition then judge, jury and prosecution will be the Police. Peace in Ireland. Police state in Scotland for their displaced descendants.
TBB
hang your head in shame for not mentioning this
It’s a cold Chicago morning
The snow was falling down
It’s a special time of year
When my family gather round
When they ask about my hometown
My thoughts begin to flow.
To the place called Tubbercurry
That I left so long ago.
I tell them about the beauty
Of the mountain and the bog
Bout many days spent fishing
Or hunting with my dog
I still can see the sunshine
Dancing on the River Moy
On this dark and wintry morning
Out here in Illinois
I remember early mornings
And going to the fair
Through ponies, sheep and cattle
I’d walk without a care
The town was black with people
Then upon those special days
‘Twas a wondrous time of life
In so many, many ways
I remember frosty evenings
And the foxes lonely bark
I remember days spent at the turf
And the sweet song of the lark
On hot and lazy afternoons
We’d work hard at the hay
And look back in the evenings
At the work we did all day
I remember summer Sundays with
My comrades playing ball
I remember stormy winter nights
Going to Ceilis in the hall
And we’d see the town in falling snow
Decked out in Christmas lights
And the music of South Sligo
Came drifting through the night
I still see Tubbercurry
under golden skies
and the day I left the station
with tears in my eyes
But someday soon I’ll go back
To the town of my birth
To Tubbercurry county Sligo
My favorite place on earth
Hail Hail
in all seriousness, good on ya paul67, celtic fans need to start setting the agenda on this whole farce!
http://thefrontofthebus.blogspot.com/2011/11/hes-called-graham-so-call-graham.html
Mystic Meg predicts Euro 2012 Group draw…
Italy
Portugal
Greece
Ireland
This will be known as the Group of Debt…
Is that the time already.
Lets not forget the part played by Paul67 and Phil in removing duggie duggie and shuggie shuggie from office.
There are some relentlessly boring farts on here seem to have forgotten.
Mmmhhhhhhhh……. I wonder why.
and lets not forget the RTC blog. Whyte has said that it is 99% “CRAP” well so far he has been 100% accurate.
best charitable donations I have ever made.
Hail Hail
Celtic Mac says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:40
Paul67 et al
Whatever way we look at it, and believe me we will look at from every which way over the next three weeks or so, the fact is that in the context of sporting bulletins going round the world, Celtic Football Club are being linked with the IRA. Just think about that for a second, because that is the reality we face. Now, I was not at the Rennes match, but it was shown on ESPN, and after I am sure I posted something on here about the supporters getting right behind the team. I cannot specifically recall, unlike Eddie Smith, every song sung or chant chanted, or which ones were likely to offend, or indeed breach the UEFA, if not yet the SNP rulebook. I would accept though, that it is always a possibility, given the scope a word like ‘political’ can bring to any possible interpretation. It is not just about a songs debate any more, the fact is our Club is being brought to book, at European level, and whatever way we look at it, we cannot be happy about that.
THAT, unfortunately is the STORY. We must do the needful to get our Club out of the firing line. The perceptions (not neccesarily the facts) are what are in danger of damning us on an international stage. We have to ditch this stuff, especially on away days.
LetsgetrealCSC
HH Gerry
When/if the Offensive bill comes to fruition say someone from the Green Brigade gets lifted and is charged. Could they call on the whole Celtic end as witnesses and ask if anyone was offended by the singing. Say 500 fans say they were not offended but one policeman was – who is right the 500 or the policeman?
Awe Naw
You win.
Bouncyboy,
Who here has defended bigots? And you seem confident that there are plenty of them in the Celtic Support? I regret even trying to discuss this with you. Complete waste of time.
If you equate singing songs of rebellion against political oppression with religious and racial bigotry, your near-eloquent prose belies your idiocy.
BontyBhoy says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:34
BB. Apologies for the inflammatory language. It’s not my intention to provoke violence, indeed I abhor it. The line you quoted is a generalisation and not specific to football. It takes a brave soul to stand up for something to that extent if it’s worth it and I take your point that football in itself isn’t. Ramblings from a dark place. My hope is that society can change through education but I believe nothing will change. My point was that if any supporters knowingly break the rules re: the non-football “manifestations”, the club will probably be punished.
Celtic Mac,
what book are we being brought to at european level ??
From my understanding a trumped up charge has been made which will likely be dismissed.
The trumped up charges were purely raised to grab a headline and smear us at some stage, that appears to be this week, as yet, no charges have been made against the club, what I believe is happening is that scotland is preparing UEFA for what will happen following the new legislation where they will be expected to get into step with the new law, we will tell you what is acceptable and you will punish accordingly.
This will be the case regardless of the league we play in unless we upsticks and play elsewhere, and that my friend is another win situation for them, we would have been forced out of the counrty.
The biggest issue is with the SCUM lawwell accepting political chants are offencive and can by association, now be considered sectarian and racist, as per the original strategy of the meeja and scottish government.
There are a good 5 or 6 on here who back that stance by the board, but not the vast majority the board claim to have, in fact most of that 5 or 6 have dubious credentials as Celtic supporters if we think this blog is in any way representitive of the Celtic support then it appears the board do not have thes upport the claim, not by a long chalk.
GerryBhoy says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:56
disagree with every word of that. A complete load of bollix wrapped up in pigs manure and covered with horse piss.
Hail Hail
Was disapointed to see Paddy Crerand has joined the I blame the schools brigade. Wee bit of info for you Paddy. There are more non-Catholics going to Catholic schools now than ever before.
I think its something to do with the standard of education Paddy!!!! Oh and another thing Paddy. I was never ever taught to hate emdae of another religion.
canamalar
Fair enough that you don’t like the man but I think you take things too far by referring to PL as scum.
Why would anyone want to ascend to the British Throne.? Or any other throne for that matter.
Saint Stivs says:
14 November, 2011 at 15:46
************************
ST Stivs please do it for next time. It was GL2’s idea and its a cracker but we were thinking that too only have one hoopy is logistically difficult, so fill yir boots, the more photies the better, I was with Ton Che Dan, Lyndsey and wee Shaedan yesterday ……. missed a good opportunity as I meant to take wee Hoopy.
Sending you a wee pic of yesterday in a mo.
V
HH