Referees: we can only shine a light


I doubt very much if there was a conspiracy between referees in Scottish football over the weekend, that does not happen.  They cross the white line making their own decisions.

Whether they are just terrible, compromised, or perform well in difficult conditions, is not the consequence of some grand plan.  In my view, they are not good enough to do the tasks required and on Sunday inhibited Celtic’s chances of winning the title.

They will close ranks this week, they always do. All we can do is continue to shine a light.

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    With respect, that’s a cop-out.



    This isnt highly complex business strategy, even a very basic suggestion which shows understanding of the issue we face, and how they might be effectively addressed would do.



    What do you want to achieve?



    How would we go about doing it?

  2. Is it not fair to say that if you aren’t even prepared to think about how the problem might be solved because its too difficult then you shouldnt really be criticising the people who are tasked with doing it?




    Thanks for that, and also for the articles on your site.

  4. Hotel de Paris on

    If you are waiting on Bankier et al attacking anyone except the Celtic support, then you are in for a very, very, very long wait.

  5. squire danaher on

    CELTIC40ME on 5TH OCTOBER 2021 3:47 PM



    I don’t think it’s a cop out.



    You’re basically telling the support to STFU because Uncle Dermo and Uncle Pete know best.



    I’m not paid to run a £70-90m p/a organisation.



    Mr Lawwell is and is supposed to be good at it.

  6. Referees went largely unnoticed in Scotland in the 60’s and 70’s. Celtic’s dominance had a lot to do with that. Tiny Wharton and Bobby Davidson were the two standouts and in the 80’s McGinlay and Syme were the best known. In the 90’s along came HD (one for Madmitch there) and nothing has been the same since. He was a game changer like Scottish, European and World football had never seen before.



    It is surprising yet predictable that HD retired from refereeing at only 48 years old. Referees used to be old fellas with a lot of experience….there´s nothing like work experience! HD set the trend for the current brood and for instance Nick Walsh is only 31 years of age. As the players get older the referees are getting younger, what does that say about maturity? HD of course was involved in Dougiegate when he came back in the new role as head of refereeing in Scotland but it was for a poisoned email that he was sent off to the wilderness of the occasional article in the daily record. Apart from HD´s own boy, the new crop are hungry young pups out to make a name and a career out of this refereeing malarkey. Look no further than another Dougie, MP Ross, only 38 by the way so get used to seeing him on your screens for a bit yet.



    The age range with managers is even greater as these young men in blue exercise their authority in front of tens of thousands of spectators who also double their ages…as a society we are (still) living longer.



    I think Paul67 is right not beating too much on a drum on this one as it is so frustrating for Celtic to have to deal with this bias. Since HD left the top refereeing post there have been different incumbents and it now rests with Crawford Allan. If HD´s headless chickens continue to spoil football matches in the SPL like last weekend, CA will inevitably be dragged into the fray. He is only 54 so if he wants to justify his role for the upcoming years he will have to do something…no wait this is the SFA.



    A look at HD´s career as a whistler outside Scotland is well worth it. It is staggering the number of huge calls he got wrong in huge matches and how controversy dogged him right to the end.



    And yes of course, it´s HD MBE

  7. AN DÚN on 5TH OCTOBER 2021 3:33 PM


    Rumours the huns have lost just under £32 million last year. That’s not an unsurprising figure.



    If true, that’s £48 million lost in the last two years with this year set to take that figure to over £60 million of accumulated losses in three seasons – if they don’t sell in January.


    FFP is a joke if they’re allowed in next season under these fiscal results.






    We don’t have FFP in Scotland, why do you think that would be??!! UEFA have it but even there they have changed the rules because of Covid (i.e. big clubs are losing eye watering amounts, especially in Spain and Italy) so they, ahem changed the rules, but if true even Sevco will not get away with it. Imagine if Sevco do win the league and then the automatic Champions League is taken away as they have failed the FFP rules?! Then there would be civil unrest!

  8. Anyone seen the Shevchenko rumour and know where that’s come from?



    Disrespectful if true but after the McKay debacle, nothing surprises me.

  9. Paul 67



    poor article , the corruption is all about the money , same as in any business


    the referees with the timmy sounding names do well financially, the masonic


    ones even better plus they are making sure the culture they support get the


    money they need to keep the corruption going on.How Celtic do nothing is



  10. squire danaher on

    GEEBEE1978 on 5TH OCTOBER 2021 4:01 PM


    Anyone seen the Shevchenko rumour and know where that’s come from?




    Disrespectful if true but after the McKay debacle, nothing surprises me.






    Classic lazy journalism



    AS apparently available for club management and fancies England.



    Daily Mail flagged this up and also flung in Celtic as a potential landing spot.



    Completely baseless kiteflying.

  11. SQUIRE DANAHER on 5TH OCTOBER 2021 3:52 PM



    “You’re basically telling the support to STFU because Uncle Dermo and Uncle Pete know best.”



    that’s why you’re suggesting they do – leave it upon to the board to get it right



    I’m doing the opposite, don’t stfu, tell us what you think they should be doing

  12. SQUIRE DANAHER on 5TH OCTOBER 2021 4:06 PM



    I’d have thought so. Would’ve taken Rebrov in the summer though…

  13. Celtic By Numbers




    Good Luck with the project.



    At least two things are at play here



    – the incompetence inconsistency of referees


    – the extent of exaggerated response to contact by other teams



    In the first, the inconsistency is not just between referees it is with the same referee in the same game.


    We saw that with Madden at the weekend as Turnbull gets booked for some mysterious reason in a tackle that could have been called either way. Later, worse offences were overlooked.


    In other bizarre calls, Collum actually gave a penalty 2 weeks ago for the defender being kicked by the forward. (can’t recall the game)


    As for Walsh, enough has been said about his day time job, but for me he had to try hard to make that a red card. Not even the other team expected a red. As we know another studs up lunge by their No 4 went completely unpunished by Walsh.



    In the second scenario, Newco, Hearts and Aberdeen are perfecting the art of falling over at the slightest touch. Against Hearts & Aberdeen Madden chose not to see any exaggeration or simulation in any of their tumbles. We know that Morelos in particular will block our defenders in the box & wait for a touch before crumpling.



    These three teams & perhaps others have been couched to win free kicks in our third of the field in the knowledge that we have been vulnerable from set pieces for a few seasons.



    The lack of transparency from the SFA over refereeing doesn’t help.


    We’ve grown up with the mantra that the referee’s decision is final, but that doesn’t make that decision right on any level. Injustice feeds frustration & anger, but the SFA show no interest in improving the game in Scotland by better referee training & accountability.




  14. CELTIC40ME



    The Board remember cocked up with their so called dossier on HD when they were in a position to do something 20 years ago, we ended up with more negative egg on our faces, Was the dossier leaked by someone?



    In fact the board thinks they are above all us and staying there is their no 1 priority, DD first and foremost. I would love to be proven wrong.

  15. Now I thought Peter Lawwell left the club at the end of June, I find that he is still being blamed for perceived failures by the club,



    The bias of the referees has been recognised by Celtic fans for at least a hundred years. My Grandfather often would rant at the unfairness of it all. However, with the improvements in technology and multi cameras at games. we should be able to prove the case. BOURNESOUPRECIPE has a link above showing 10 incidents this season. This should be set to the SFA and each week a similar submission should be made.



    The media cannot be expected to do this so we need to do it ourself.

  16. RIMTIMTIM on 5TH OCTOBER 2021 4:23 PM



    I don’t remember that far back, Im afraid, at least not those events.



    “In fact the board thinks they are above all us and staying there is their no 1 priority, DD first and foremost. I would love to be proven wrong.”



    I dont think that can be described as a fact and I dont understand what bearing it has on this issue. Unless the suggestion is that the Celtic Board has been part of a conspiracy with the referees.



    *notification alert on Ernie Lynch’s phone*

  17. GEEBEE1978 on 5TH OCTOBER 2021 4:14 PM



    “I’d have thought so. Would’ve taken Rebrov in the summer though…”



    This Rebrov:



    ‘I wouldn’t go for a walk on my own around White Hart Lane.



    ‘A lot of dark skinned people live there. So naturally the crime rate is higher than anywhere else.



    ‘It’s not nice to be a robbery victim. So I suggest that Roman doesn’t walk but drives around that area.’

  18. I did know about Dermot Gallagher, but I thought that he might be considered to be of Irish origin and so favour Celtic by those who do have something to hid. We would need to have others comment I think.

  19. 67 European Cup Winners on

    Simply put – If I was a Ref refereeing a Hun’s game I would try and do it fairy


    But a little touch by a Hun on another player i would blow for a foul


    If the other team were winning I would make sure the game was stop start


    It is such an easy thing for a ref to do



    In England they have an open debate about what team they support and all agree not to ref a match involving their tem


    They accept it could be viewed as controversial



    In Scotland the theory is the more refs that are huns the more chance of the huns winning (or Celtic losing)



    Shine a light all you want – there is more hun decisions coming our way



    Hibs at the weekend 2 big decisions one on a hibs player – play on


    One on a Hun player sent off




  20. Garngad to Croy on




    ‘Simply put – If I was a Ref refereeing a Hun’s game I would try and do it fairy’



    Alright Tinkerbell , you better have a red white and blue wand ! (apologies but I couldn’t resist)

  21. Rock Tree Bhoy on

    Most probably in their personal life they all lean towards the dark side and most probably – as long as they are not too outrageous – they know they will get away with refereeing decisions that favour the dark side, I dont think there is any more to it than that,



    To me the issue is the fact that they assume they will get away with it before a ball is kicked – where does this assumption come from? Almost certainly whoever it is that they report to, if thats the SFA then them.



    I sense Dermot Desmond is behind the meekly compliant Celtic who refuse to complain about anything.

  22. NOTTHEBUS on 5TH OCTOBER 2021 12:48 PM



    There are more Rangers “inclined” referees , that’s not in dispute.




    Of course there are, and that is not a matter of opinion, or, a line from some long-running conspiracy; it is a matter of demographics and fact.



    We are a minority community in this country, around 17% at the last census, probably now circa 16%. So of course decision-makers and movers and shakers from all social, political, sporting and commercial spheres will outnumber us. Not all are bitter and biased, but there is a hugely influential base within the overall majority of the population who wish us not here. Many would not sing, or, even acknowledge, the Famine Song, but if you drill down and, if push ever came to shove, the sentiments would not be abhorrent to them. So much of it is cleverly hidden under political expediency.



    There is a ‘head of steam’ building up at Ibrox and after years of having to eat s***, heavy pressure is being exerted with the determination to re-assert as the establishment club at the very top of the Scottish game and to be the filter by which everything appertaining to football in Scotland must pass through – whether that be administration, sponsorship, media-matters, or, the management of games on the field of play. There is now no appetite to take on “big powerful Rangers”, on the pitch, or, off, anywhere in Scotland. We may talk about their dire financial plight & accumulated losses – this matters not a jot to all and sundry in Scotland. The message that sticks is that ‘Rangers are back where they belong, don’t rock the boat’.



    I remember when it was so in past eras – Struth, Waddell, Symon, Wallace, Souness & Smith. – they ‘ruled the roost’ and they, through the power and influence of Ibrox hierarchy, were a law unto themselves. Now they feel that they have another serious figure in ‘world renowned’ Gerrard, at the helm – successful, and able to deliver domination once again.



    We have never had, and indeed never will have, sufficient numbers and clout to match the ‘Scottish Ibrox’ constituency off the field of play…..that is also a matter of demographics and fact.

  23. park the bus n blootir it on

    Celtic won’t win the league because….


    Celtic executives are joined at the hip to the ‘other’ anti Celtic establishment creatures who are in charge of everything in this country.


    Celtic executives are only in their jobs because cowardly dithering Celtic season ticket paying financiers pay the salaries of these dubious bought off executives.


    These executives will put “survival of the old firm” way before the interests of any amount of Celtic season ticket paying financiers who consistently prove beyond all doubt that they are no more than “easy meats” who’ll be forever taken to school by swamp conscripted Celtic executives.


    Get over yourselves ffs !!!

  24. Celtic started season 2010/2011 with 24 points from 8 straight victories, the last of which was a 2-1 away victory against Dundee United.



    After the fallout from that game, the referee strike, the cover up and the sacking of Hugh Dallas for a different offence Celtic won 12 points out of the next 24

  25. Rock Tree Bhoy on

    CELTIC40ME on 5TH OCTOBER 2021 5:23 PM



    ROCK TREE BHOY on 5TH OCTOBER 2021 5:21 PM



    What would you do?






    As supporters what can we do? If I was let’s say Dermot Desmond I would have a team of footballing analysts (ex players ex referees) set up to study how the ‘therangers’ games are refereed differently from everyone else, with the sole purpose of exposing at the appropriate time just how fundamentally crooked the whole rotten bunch are, also perhaps get friendly with certain media who would favour such a report.



    But when it appears the only people Celtic FC are prepared to bite back at are their own supporters I don’t think anything like that will ever happen.

  26. Paul 67 has often commented about his being liable for any slanderous inaccurate statement made by a poster on his site, unless he corrects it (and he’s not into 24/7 vigilance of the blog) or deletes it.



    It could be that yesterday’s leader was the subject of a proactive cease and desist order as it could be seen to suggest that gambling debts incurred by a ref, could lead directly to corrupt or biased decisions in a football match or could leave the gambling ref open to blackmail in order to induce him to be biased (a far more reasonable and defensible assertion).



    So, maybe today’s row back in tone is in response to some such scenario- I am merely speculating without any concrete evidence.



    However, I do recall a CQN leader previoulsy which on the eve of a Celtic-Sevco tie suggested that the gambling habits of an EK based Childhood Rangers supporting Scottish Ref left him open to that suggestion. It played very well with this blog and, indeed, the ref concerned seemed to put in an unbiased performance following this shot across the bows.



    However, both lionroars and myself had reservations about this approach in that a statement on a blog about a gambling debt or bias was an unfair wy to approach this and could lead to tit-for-tat assertions about refs with a so-called bias in favour of Celtic (Such well known Scottish refs as IMD Unicorn and LN Monster).



    If Paul67 or anyone at Celtic, had solid info on gambling debts, this should have been passed formally to the Authorities (and I know the problem in trusting the SFA to do anything other than SFA about it). It should not be the business of newspapers or blogs to spread unsubstantuated gossip as fact. We have been calling for fair administration and justice so we need to create trusted “impartial” sources to adjudicate what cannot be adjudicated by a partial Celtic (or Sevco) blog.



    Do not be mistaken, I am not suggesting that this EK ref was free of all bias, just that his case was, as yet, not proven. I am strongly of the view that the sudden late career emergence of biased decisions by Rev McCurry were very probably related to his marital infidelities coming to light leaving him open to being manipulated, most likely in his case, by Rangers minded characters rather than primarily anti-Celtic ones. It was no surprise that the infidelities were finally revealed (in the Record, I recall) after he had given up reffing and was of no use to anyone. The Rev’s “cooperation”, if it was that, did not do him any good as the issue was not buried and came to light eventually but what damage was he doing while reffing under this pressure.



    This could apply to both McCurry and the EK ref, to one of them , or to none. It may be that bias operates voluntarily out of love for a boygood club rather than out of hate for all others but it needs to be measured and measured carefully if a successful case is to be mounted. Any biased counting of the grievances agaisnt your own club by supporters of your own club, are next to useless and certainly not persuasive. Sevco fans, when they lose leagues, are just as paranoid and convinced of bias as we are.



    To establish bias the figures for fouls, penalties and cards need to be collated fully in comparison with all clubs and over a period that does away with the influence of a temporary aggressive coach e.g. Ange;’s high pressing style being responsible for the foul count vs Dons on Sunday.



    I saw figures on Twitter today and I have no idea how reliable they were, that suggested over the past 10 years, the figures for pens awarded for and against Celtic & Sevco are remarkably similar as are the foul and card counts. It was a Sevco fan putting the stats out so i remain sceptical but I still need the accurte figures over a long period to suggest and nail this as bias.



    there was a tabulation of figures from the start of the 2017/18 season and the end of the 2019/20 season.



    This showed:-



    1. Rangers (1 pen every 411 mins, 87% conversion)



    2. Hamilton Accies (1 pen every 477 mins, 85% conversion)



    3. Kilmarnock (1 pen every 502 mins, 78.9% conversion)



    4. Aberdeen (1 pen every 530 mins, 88.9% conversion)



    5. Hibs (1 pen every 561 mins, 70.6% conversion)



    6. St Johnstone (1 pen every 591 mins, 50% conversion)



    7. Celtic (1 pen every 681 mins, 71.4% conversion)



    8. Hearts (1 pen every 681 mins, 64.3% conversion)



    9. Motherwell (1 pen every 734 mins, 76.9% conversion)




    That is hard evidence but………



    it only measured the pen count



    it only measured over 3 seasons and an opposite bias may have been present in the preceding 3 seasons.



    it really needs official supervision and comment by the refs themselves.



    They should be publishing data of their own on the respective foul count, pen count and card count for all clubs seperately and for all Senior refs seperately.



    This may sound stupidly obvious If it is out in the open it is harder to hide.



    Partial stats and side of the mouth accusations unevidenced do not do it for me. The subject needs a more objective and neutral analysis than any of us if going to make.

  27. DAVID66..


    Wee Rocky and I are okay, although Ive only been in my local pub once in the last nine weeks. So I have been cutting down on the Beer…for now ?


    I continue to go to se a Nurse or attend hospitals for different Tests and Blood samples etc, and because of my ” New Found” Diabetes, I now have extra Health appointments.


    I feel that Im spending my life between my hoose and Taxi Cabs LOL !



    I hope that you and the family are well and in good health.


    Thanks for asking about wee Rocky Bhoy and Me on Page 2.


    HH Mate.


    Stay Safe.

  28. Paul 67,



    To stimulate your / our thought process.



    A quick look back at all our European games will show referees getting slated.


    I would say this is 100% after every game.



    It is inconceivable to think there is any agenda.




  29. SAINT STIVS on 5TH OCTOBER 2021 5:06 PM



    this logging in for every page change is a pain






    Refresh the page and you can comment – no need to log back in



    Feck knows what causes it (caching??) but this is the solution

  30. Rock Tree Bhoy on

    As incompetent a bunch as they are, sincerely hope they have someone who knows what they are doing looking at the potential damage this ex Celtic Boys Club victims legal action could do to the club if not addressed properly. I’m definitely concerned because their track record in terms of standing up and defending the club when ever we are under attack – rightly or wrongly – is poor. And of course this is Scotland, where as we all know we have lots of enemies in high places. They will need to be right on top of this one, if not the fall out / reputational damage could be horrendous.

  31. Dallas was sacked for a sectarian email, nothing to do with Dougie Dougie, he went on Clyde 1 on the Monday night totally lying to cover McDonald and his lies

  32. BSR et al


    The link posted states VAR decisions versus actual match decisions. As there is no VAR in Scottish football, all those highlighted incidents are surely the subjective opinion of the author. That is not to say there is no merit in assessing the decisions as incorrect, but this is not fact.