Dramatic and ambitions developments in European leagues, in this instance Russian and Ukraine, who have taken Michel Platini’s endorsement for the regionalisation of domestic leagues, should inspire the imagination of every football fan and administrator in a league with problems.
Scotland has a league with problems.
Our clubs and national association are committed to reorganisation but neither proposal from the Scottish Premier League or Scottish Football League does anything to halt the inevitable decline and marginalisation of our clubs.
In the 60s, 70s and 80s well-run Scottish provincial clubs regularly beat leading teams from big European countries but since then our small domestic market TV market has made most Scottish clubs also-rans, both in Europe and at home. We have a league system where the battle for second place is competitive and interesting but does not carry a meaningful reward; only one club is capable of winning the league.
Before making any changes to our league system we need to consider what changes are happening elsewhere in Europe and have a mature conversation about regionalisation.
Ordered the CQN Annual yet? It is a product of literary brilliance. Get it here in time for Christmas!
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Reconstruction of Scottish football would only be papering over a very large crack.
What is required is a complete clear out of the SFA, SPl and SFL office bearers.
Each of those bodies is fatally flawed and will never regain trust, as long as the people who head them are in position.
For that reason, the only option is to get out.
But, how, where and when is the problem.
There is not the will in Scottish society to change, unless the grass roots support of every decent club demand it, as they did during last year’s shoddy attempts by football’s hierarchy to further corrupt the scene.
thomthethim
Great points.
Weefra HH
Mature conversations regarding football are difficult to find in Scotland
Lucio ?
For what it is worth .
Injury prone .
Has a rep for being a disruptive / divisive presence in the dressing room ..
Italian hacks have him returning to Brazil or signing a short term contract with AC Milan
We have had Henry McLeish and his….what was it he done anyway?
We have blue-prints galore,
SPL reconstruction proposals, SFL proposals, Atlantic leagues discussed.
Thank god all the sponsors, advertisers and suits know exactly what is best for us, so that none of us need to be consulted. We will go where were told, where the money is.
It is not about Deidco.
Peter Lawwell and the board would welcome cross border associations.
Only in a Scottish context are we tarred with the same Old Firm brush as them.
In a European context we are stand alone, bona fide, significant players on our own.
In a European context potential sponsors would be less threatened by the potential backlash of disgruntled Sevconians.
Read TBB’s article and pay attention to revenue streams he outlines.
If they, on merit, were promoted to the same level as us some time in the future then so be it.
In the present they are nowhere, 3 divisions at least, near us.
Only in Scotland, with the SFA, MSM, etc trumpeting their case are they relevant, but only in their deluded minds. They are ” tonight Matthews”, to use the latest term.
They need us to recognise them.
We don’t and what would be better would be to move on, pan Europe league wise, without them and their excessive baggage.
In Europe they currently do not exist, they have no avenue into that sphere. They are an irrelevance.
A top 3 Scottish teams into an, eg Atlantic league would be Celtic, Motherwell and ICT at the moment.
Bold moves made now bear substantial fruit for many years, a hosepipe so to speak.
DD, PW et al get onto it.
EC67
starry plough
13:24 on 17 December, 2012
Celtic v Anderlecht, Celtic v Feynoord, Celtic v Rosenborg, Celtic v Copenhagen or Man Utd v Celtic, Celtic v Arsenal, Celtic v Everton, Celtic v Chelsea…
The first set of fixtures for me. Don’t want us anywhere near an English league.
You could also ask what is most attractive to fans
Celtic v Ajax, PSV, Twente, Brugge or Celtic v Reading, Wigan, Southampton, Stoke
We are not English and they don’t want us in their league. 2 reasons to go for North European League.
WeefratheTim, I missed it. Many thanks.
Jungle Jim, I would be up for it but I think the British region is more likely.
Richie, excellent, thanks.
Tomorrow is the last official post date for Christmas, for anyone not yet with a CQN Annual.
Auldheid, yes, indeed.
Gordon_J, this looks like the core problem. Need to inject vision into our game. It beats managing decline any day.
ASonOfDan, I don’t think this matter would trouble them for a few years anyway.
DeniaBhoy, if the Scottish clubs want change I believe they could achieve it. Interpret that as you will.
Zenit fans confirm what i have said on CQN for months about their support.Horrendous stuff
Zenit St Petersburg’s primary fan group has claimed that they will not accept the presence of black or gay footballers within the club in a recently published ‘manifesto’. It has been well publicised that Zenit have never featured a black footballer in the club’s history, with the likes of Hulk and Bruno Alves begrudgingly having been accepted, and it would seem as though this is unlikely to happen any time soon.
‘We are not racists, but the absence of black players in the Zenit lineup is an important tradition that underlines the identity of the club, and nothing more.
We as the most northern club of the big European cities have never shared the mentality of Africa, or South America or Australia and Oceania.
A big part of the championship is played in pretty tough weather. In these conditions it is sometimes difficult for the technical players from warm countries to display their footballing talents to the full degree.
We are against the inclusion of representatives of sexual minorities in the Zenit team.’
English police are managing potentially serious conflict situations at football matches every week.
They don’t always get it right- prime example the disgrace and tragedy that was Hillsboro’I
They have a deserved reputation for being both too ‘hands on’ and ‘hands off’ – often misjudging the mood
I sense they would cope ok with the groups that have tickets for the game and the segregated areas allocated to away fans. There would be incidents but nothing more than what they deal with now.
Any problems will arise from the unexpected numbers who travel without tickets from all over the country. At least in the initial excitement there will be thousands travelling without tickets to soak up the occasion. Intent only on buying tickets for any part of the ground and crowding into local pubs to watch on tv etc.
The Feds will underestimate all of that initially,then potentially they will panic and overreact
For Celtic fans its mainly learning new towns and cities with little or no local knowledge -where to go on match days and where not to go – knowledge that the English supporters have built up
over a century and instinctively police themselves to an extent- it will take time for our bhoys to suss out the form.
In summary I know our fans will behave very well and seek to charm and befriend locals. Celts will resist taunts under the most extreme provocation – almost to the extent that some opposition nutters will see that as being ‘soft’ and up the ante- therein lies a potential powder keg!
Overall I expect a fair bit of panic in the press and some fans and police forces will overreact -so might some of our bhoys unfortunately – self policing culture in Celts support will prevail …eventually.
I expect it all to settle down in time.
Much prefer to play Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal regularly than games against Malmo, Copenhagen and Anderlecht
HH
The combined populations of Scotland, Holland, Belgium, Sweden, Norway and Denmark is approx. 50-55 million. In other words more than the population of England, therefore a huge potential TV audience for broadcasters. Given that these countries are all relatively afluent and high consumer spenders, sponsorship would also be very attractive.
Greetings from a dull but pleasant enough Tipperary. Just back from Golf, think I might have secured the Christmas Dinner, 44 points my best score of the year. Forward Tees & placing everywhere but still delighted, if my putter was working I’d have broke 50 missed 5 putts from 6ft. Anyhow thats probably the last game of 2012 for me, I’ve been called for Jury Service tomorrow, hope to God I’m not selected as a Juror, I’d hate to be putting some bloke in the slammer at Christmas time.
Paul67, keep it up Paul proactive as always. We all know which way the Scottish game is going there is one team and that is the Bhoys.
Euro league for me it would not take long for the BNP and their like to target our fans down south.
Ajax,Feyenoord,PSV,Anderlecht,Standard Liege,Copenhagen will do me just fine, of course a super league with the big boys would be even better.
KTF
No sure why we’d include scandinavian countries, especially with their winter shutdown, not seen Austrian or the Swis mentioned do they also have the winter break.
As these proposals become more regular, and I think they will, it will be easy to see a pattern. Leagues containing teams that were formerly bigger hitter Europe-wise but are now struggling with poor tv revenue.
This clearly does not apply to England, Germany, France, Spain or Italy.
Some kind of North Sea League fits the bill quite nicely.
Huns now seem to be accepting amongst themselves that the share issue is going to come up well short, apparently 7 or 8 million of the initial pledges were supposed to have been made by Tims on the wind up.
For the most part I’ve felt more comfortable and welcome playing EPL sides than when playing SPL sides.
The risk of BNP/EDL involvement is overplayed.
And Plod should get back in their pram and remember they are supposed to be public servants, not some king of overlord.
Theres also the consideration that any refional league will out the club further out of the reach of the traditional support, while everyone would be excited about going to play new clubs in foreign fields, the away support will be taking their prawn sandwiches and singing old favorites like ‘lets go out to the ball game’.
It all sounds great but the bottom line is does anyone here actually believe the season ticket price would be made to suit the working mhan.
That is the discussion we should be having
the jolly japesters at John Paul Academy have put up their own
Nae Tivity play –
funny, thoughtful,
well the done the girls and boys who were pricipal in Oscar events at the school.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJTH1ZtjT6I
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire
14:24 on
17 December, 2012
I think I’m getting old, but I’d be quite happy with a winter shutdown.
reginnal league will take even
ah bugger it :o)
The trouble with a winter shut down in Scotland is when to have it. You could easily have no fixtures in December of January and then find that the worst of the weather comes in February.
Hamiltontim
10:55 on
17 December, 2012
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
10:52 on
17 December, 2012
Sorry for the double-post,folks.
And for breaking the blog,PAUL67.
Think I’ll go to the pub before I break anything else…..
——————
Any blinkin’ excuse!!!!!!! :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
You know me so well,haha!
Practising for my trip home in three weeks,when all my ingenuity will be required to escape my Mum’s clutches.
Need a haircut? Check-a few beers.
Gotta put the lottery on? Check-a few beers.
Need to get the skwerr and black pudding in for doo the road? Check-a few beers.
Sadly,those are the only excuses which cut the mustard with her,so I’m looking for a bit of help here,lads……
weeminger,
aye and naw, how boring would winter become, nae Celtic to moan about in the long dark nights
Celtic players chase referee over penalty claim
Just Another Saturday CSC
Ten Men Won The League
That’s terrible and you are right to highlight it and condemn it for the racism it is. Perhaps they should have said they will sign a black player when there is one who is good enough.
However, playing devils advocate here, Atletico Bilbao were lauded here last season for their run to the Europa League final, yet they won’t play any player who is not from the Basque region.
Mort
Who could afford to go to every game home and away in a Euro set up? Malmo, Helsinki, Copenhagen etc?
How much time off your work would you need?
None of the punters I know could do it and keep a job.
Or the guys who have done this for years just need to accept that for the good of the game, this is what happens?
Fans, pffft! Over-rated so they are.
Still, we get loadsa money and armchair fans get to watch all the adverts.
And whats to stop a Brugge or a Helsinborgs. coming here and parking the bus meaning dull, turgid mid-table euro mediocrity only with fancy exotic names after a season or two.
Will the necessisity of top flight survival due to the associated revenue mean teams all being as cautious as say, a St Mirren or Dundee anyway?
Give me a league with 8000 Jambos coming to Parkhead baying for blood. A journey to Pittodrie full of intrepidation where even a point would be a result. Packed midweek nights at Easter Road and Fir Park. That and a euro adventure every year where every journey is totally special and talked about for years. All affordable to supporters.
Nah, just follow the money and to hell with punters
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon
14:41 on 17 December, 2012
But if you are playing through the spring/summer months you have scope to re-arrange games when weather is better. A bit of planning to leave several free midweeks would be sufficient.
Better still, go the whole hog and have summer football, March to November season.
Paul
The big question for a British Isles league is what happens to the associations? Do they merge? If so, that’s the end of the control of the game by the home nations. Would the SFA vote for that? Can’t see it.
HH
monteblanco
14:44 on
17 December, 2012
Devil’s advocate – chances are if we don’t move to a set-up with a more money-spinning media package we’ll see a combination of rising prices and dwindling quality – folks will still find it too expensive to get to all the games. We’ll never be in a position to hold out against any kind of profitable offer for a starlet.
Row Z..,
I thought the point would be that the clubs not invited to enter would still be under the control of the national associations, the problem would be how do you allocate champions league places, would each country sede a place to the new regional league structure and maintain a place for their own champions
One day ,and in the not too distant future,Sevco,RIFCor TRFC will darken our doorstep again. And I will assume that it will be the same as it ever was with the triumphalist bull and all that goes with it. The nonsense we have to endure just now from the MSM will only get worse and I am of an age were I just cannot be ar*ed anymore. If we could find a league that does not have thems in it that would do for me.
Of course you have to be careful what you wish for as entry to some English format may mean that we will not see European football for some time (although this may be compensated for by the week to week opposition) and that would be a miss. And I agree with what some on here have said with regard to the violence that would follow us if we did flit down south. So would it be worth it ? The fact is no one knows. We maybe would go on and become a dominant force down south or we may be like LFC are just now good but just not good enough. I don’t know how that would sit with our support for sure attendances would be good, full house every home game, but would it last if we were not successful? Just about every Celtic supporter I have conversed about with this believes we would be up there with the Man Us and Chelsea s I am not so sure. And if we were to attain these heights would it be at the cost of having a Glazer or Ambramovitch at the helm because from where I am sitting it seems that is what is required for success in the EPL. Like us all I would drool at the prospect of a Falcao playing for us but who would we be getting into bed with to finance it. Having said all that if you don’t buy a ticket you cant win a prize and the prospect of watching our beloved hoops having to endure the return of that mob and all they bring with them
I would say it is a risk worth taking. So whether it be an EPL or Atlantic league or whatever lets go for it if the opportunity arises and hopefully leave the baggage of “the Old Firm ” behind.
Mort
Not a fair comparison, in my view. Athletic Bilbao will play any player who is from a Basque background who has had had all or part of his football development in the Basque country. Anyone who can use the Basque language has a claim. Creed and colour do not come into it.
See a couple of examples below.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jonás_Ramalho.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aymeric_Laporte
Canamalar
FIFA have been trying for decades to get the 4 associations out of their secure place at the decision making table. Don’t think they would want to miss the opportunity.
HH
weeminger,
its already too expensive for many and there is no need for it to be IMO, a regional league would be justification enough to bang up the prices again.
Imagine the atmosphere with only the targeted corporate support in attendence
Weeminger
I get you, and initially it appears a solution. The game is not being improved, I thought that was the point of reconstruction, to improve and allow the gap to close between the giants and also rans. This isn’t, this is a device to improve revenue streams for a 2nd tier select few. How would this set-up redress the imbalance.
I don’t know the answer btw, but this just appears to me, to be another step in the wrong direction.
Reorganisation/regionalisation/EPL?
I don’t care where we play,as long as our home games are at THE Celtic Park.
I mean,Robroyston,Cambuslang,ffs………
One thing that DOES matter,though,is that we are accorded the respect to which we are entitled.
In Scotland,we are regarded as equal in every respect,be it race,colour creed,gender,sexual orientation,etc.
You name it,the list of equal rights legislation is as long as your arm.
In Scotland,it stops the minute you set foot inside Celtic Park,whether as a player or as a fan.
THAT is why I want us out of Scottish football.
And those who also,in return,want us out are the reason why we have to leave.